Mailing List Archive

> ----- Original message -----
> From: "Dave Neary‎" <dneary@maemo.org>
> To: "List for community development‎" <maemo-community@maemo.org>
> Subject: No more anonymous edits
> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 15:51:06 +0100
>
>
>Hi,
>
> As has been detailed previously, we want to keep access to the wiki as
> poen as possible to allow people to do drive-by edits, but we have seen
> an increasing amount of spam recently - there must be some spambot hack
> around the maths test botcheck out recently.
>
> So I'd like to disable anonymous creation of pages.
>
> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
> user account.
>
> Any opposition?
>

Go for it.

Randy

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++

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 5:19 PM, Randall Arnold <texrat@ovi.com> wrote:
>> ----- Original message -----
>> From: "Dave Neary‎" <dneary@maemo.org>
>> To: "List for community development‎" <maemo-community@maemo.org>
>> Subject: No more anonymous edits
>> Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 15:51:06 +0100
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>
>> As has been detailed previously, we want to keep access to the wiki as
>> poen as possible to allow people to do drive-by edits, but we have seen
>> an increasing amount of spam recently - there must be some spambot hack
>> around the maths test botcheck out recently.
>>
>> So I'd like to disable anonymous creation of pages.
>>
>> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
>> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
>> user account.
>>
>> Any opposition?
>>
>
> Go for it.
>
> Randy
>
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Hi,

On 9 February 2011 15:51, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As has been detailed previously, we want to keep access to the wiki as
> poen as possible to allow people to do drive-by edits, but we have seen
> an increasing amount of spam recently - there must be some spambot hack
> around the maths test botcheck out recently.
>
> So I'd like to disable anonymous creation of pages.
>
> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
> user account.

+1 from me

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On 9 February 2011 16:51, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
> user account.

+1, though I might go as far as completely removing anonymous editing.

> Dave.

/Bergie

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On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 15:40, Henri Bergius <henri.bergius@nemein.com> wrote:
> On 9 February 2011 16:51, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
>> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
>> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
>> user account.
>
> +1, though I might go as far as completely removing anonymous editing.

No, that's just unfriendly. Can we have some version (tighter if
necessary) of a "do this calculation to prove you're not a bot"
question on anonymous users?

I note that the subject of this thread does *not* match the content:
no more anonymous *creates*.

Cheers,

Andrew

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Done.

Dave.

Dave Neary wrote:
> Hi,
>
> As has been detailed previously, we want to keep access to the wiki as
> poen as possible to allow people to do drive-by edits, but we have seen
> an increasing amount of spam recently - there must be some spambot hack
> around the maths test botcheck out recently.
>
> So I'd like to disable anonymous creation of pages.
>
> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
> user account.
>
> Any opposition?
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>

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On 09/02/2011 15:58, Andrew Flegg wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 15:40, Henri Bergius<henri.bergius@nemein.com> wrote:
>> On 9 February 2011 16:51, Dave Neary<dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
>>> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
>>> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
>>> user account.
>>
>> +1, though I might go as far as completely removing anonymous editing.
>
> No, that's just unfriendly. Can we have some version (tighter if
> necessary) of a "do this calculation to prove you're not a bot"
> question on anonymous users?

Didn't we have a rule of no anonymous creates/edits in the past?

I've got to say that I can't really see why it's unfriendly to make
people log in before they make edits. It's useful to be able to track
who's made a change, and I can't see why the person making the change
will be unhappy to announce who they are by being logged in.

Cheers,


Simon
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2011/2/10 Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering@bath.ac.uk>:
> On 09/02/2011 15:58, Andrew Flegg wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 15:40, Henri Bergius<henri.bergius@nemein.com>
>>  wrote:
>>> On 9 February 2011 16:51, Dave Neary<dneary@maemo.org>  wrote:
>>>> Anonymous users will still be able to edit existing pages, but will not
>>>> be able to create new pages. To do that, you will have to create a Maemo
>>>> user account.
>>>
>>> +1, though I might go as far as completely removing anonymous editing.
>>
>> No, that's just unfriendly. Can we have some version (tighter if
>> necessary) of a "do this calculation to prove you're not a bot"
>> question on anonymous users?
>
> Didn't we have a rule of no anonymous creates/edits in the past?
>
> I've got to say that I can't really see why it's unfriendly to make people
> log in before they make edits. It's useful to be able to track who's made a
> change, and I can't see why the person making the change will be unhappy to
> announce who they are by being logged in.

+1 from me. It shouldn't be that much of a problem. And as we have SSO
throughout Maemo.org, many people will either already have an account,
and if not, creating one is a good idea, and they will gain access to
the rest of Maemo.org with the same account (as opposed to having to
create a separate wiki account).

As for the spam problem: Isn't there a reCAPTCHA plugin for Mediawiki
or something? If that's annoying for regular contributors, make it so
that the reCAPTCHA is required for users below a certain Wiki karma
boundary, and above that, just let the user edit without having to
fill in a captcha (some spambots have no problem registering an
account and posting spam there, so just requiring registration
probably doesn't help).

Thanks,
Thomas
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On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:09, Thomas Perl <th.perl@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2011/2/10 Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering@bath.ac.uk>:
>>
>> Didn't we have a rule of no anonymous creates/edits in the past?

Probably. But if it's something wikipedia can support, why can't we?

>> I've got to say that I can't really see why it's unfriendly to make people
>> log in before they make edits. It's useful to be able to track who's made a
>> change, and I can't see why the person making the change will be unhappy to
>> announce who they are by being logged in.

The argument had before (which ISTR persuaded me) was making small
trivial changes without an account is a gateway into becoming more
involved.

> +1 from me. It shouldn't be that much of a problem. And as we have SSO
> throughout Maemo.org, many people will either already have an account,
> and if not, creating one is a good idea, and they will gain access to
> the rest of Maemo.org with the same account (as opposed to having to
> create a separate wiki account).

Indeed, though the "S" of "SSO" stands for "Shared". And then it's
only partial, because Bugzilla & Talk *STILL* (grrr) have separate
account databases. The promised SSO seems to have just fallen away.

> As for the spam problem: Isn't there a reCAPTCHA plugin for Mediawiki
> or something? If that's annoying for regular contributors, make it so
> that the reCAPTCHA is required for users below a certain Wiki karma
> boundary, and above that, just let the user edit without having to
> fill in a captcha (some spambots have no problem registering an
> account and posting spam there, so just requiring registration
> probably doesn't help).

There must be plugins which can prompt someone to do something if they
haven't got an account. Didn't we used to have to do a simple
arithmetic sum if anonymous? Was that with the old Midgard wiki?

Cheers,

Andrew

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Hi Andrew,

2011/2/10 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>:
> There must be plugins which can prompt someone to do something if they
> haven't got an account. Didn't we used to have to do a simple
> arithmetic sum if anonymous? Was that with the old Midgard wiki?

I think that's the "maths tests botcheck" in Dave's initial mail in this thread:

2011/2/9 Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org>:
> [...] increasing amount of spam recently - there must be some spambot hack
> around the maths test botcheck out recently.

Mediawiki.org has some suggestions on what can be done:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam


HTH.
Thomas
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On 10/02/2011 09:15, Andrew Flegg wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 09:09, Thomas Perl<th.perl@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2011/2/10 Simon Pickering<S.G.Pickering@bath.ac.uk>:
>>>
>>> Didn't we have a rule of no anonymous creates/edits in the past?
>
> Probably. But if it's something wikipedia can support, why can't we?

We have fewer editors (as in those who will look at changes and make a
decision as to whether the changes are valid or spam) would be my
initial suggestion, but I really don't know.

>>> I've got to say that I can't really see why it's unfriendly to make people
>>> log in before they make edits. It's useful to be able to track who's made a
>>> change, and I can't see why the person making the change will be unhappy to
>>> announce who they are by being logged in.
>
> The argument had before (which ISTR persuaded me) was making small
> trivial changes without an account is a gateway into becoming more
> involved.

I can understand that argument, but as most of the info on maemo.org is
very specific to the Maemo devices, and I'm assuming that most people
who are interested and engaged with Maemo (and therefore potentially
knowledgeable enough to make alterations to a page) will have logins.

Cheers,


Simon

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Hi,

Thomas Perl wrote:
> As for the spam problem: Isn't there a reCAPTCHA plugin for Mediawiki
> or something? If that's annoying for regular contributors, make it so
> that the reCAPTCHA is required for users below a certain Wiki karma
> boundary, and above that, just let the user edit without having to
> fill in a captcha (some spambots have no problem registering an
> account and posting spam there, so just requiring registration
> probably doesn't help).

We have the following extensions installed on our MediaWiki (contents of
/usr/share/mediawiki/extensions):
BugzillaReports DynamicPageList ParserFunctions
BugzillaReports_v0.9 EditHelp.php README
BugzillaReports_v0.9.8 ExtensionFunctions.php.bak RSSReader
CategoryTree extensions_from_oldmaemo SyntaxHighlight_GeSHi
Cite GForgeAuthentication Userlogin_maemo
ConfirmEdit ImageMap UserMerge

ExtensionFunctions.php.bak: Not sure what that is. README is just a
README, and extensions_from_oldmaemo contains only CategoryTree.

I guess that we could install a recaptcha extension...

The state of the discussion was this:
http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Meta:Anonymous_editing

The end result is that we use the default "simple maths test" for
anonymous edits on wiki.m.o and adopted a "wait & see" to see how bad
spam was.

I can report a marked increase in the spam that needs cleaning up since
around November or December. I have to take my hat off to amigadave
(David King) who has been policing the spammers well, and Jack Tanner,
who was cleaning up the content (unfortunately, since he couldn't delete
pages or revert edits previously, his clean-up work still needed further
clean-up to avoid page names & history polluting the wiki - now that
he's a sysop, that should solve that problem).

I don't have any time to do this in the very near future, but I can keep
it on my plate - can someone ping me in a couple of weeks if it hasn't
happened? I might need a few pings before I manage to make time for it,
but at least every 2 weeks I can let you know ;)

Thanks!
Dave.


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On 10 February 2011 12:48, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> I can report a marked increase in the spam that needs cleaning up since
> around November or December. I have to take my hat off to amigadave
> (David King) who has been policing the spammers well, and Jack Tanner,
> who was cleaning up the content

This is the part I was a bit afraid of ... potential contributors to
wiki content end up spending their time policing against spam instead
of doing something more interesting. But yeah, maybe the math check
will help.

> Dave.

/Henri

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Hi,

Andrew Flegg wrote:
> The argument had before (which ISTR persuaded me) was making small
> trivial changes without an account is a gateway into becoming more
> involved.

In reality since the MeeGo move, we have not had many of these. Most of
the new content is coming across from forum discussions or is existing
members improving existing pages.

Drive-by edits work really well when you have a lots of interested
parties driving by the wiki. But since the MeeGo announcement, the
interest in the Maemo wiki has fallen away so that the only interested
parties now are Maemo community members, and spambots looking for google
juice.

Cheers,
Dave.

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Hi,

Henri Bergius wrote:
> But yeah, maybe the math check will help.

Just to be clear, the math check is what we had before - and it isn't
working. Now we need to evolve. recaptcha would be the next step, no
anonymous edits would be the one after that. For the moment, no
anonymous creates is in affect, let's see how much good it does.

Cheers,
Dave.

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