Mailing List Archive

Hey Robin,

I'll send you a testmail in a minute. I'm the guy from the GPGTools support discussion we had today.

Talk to you off-list.

If any of the GnuPG wizards like to chime in on the technical side on the bug tracker we're happy about any input.

Cheers,
steve


Am 22.05.2012 um 20:06 schrieb Robin Kipp:

> Hello all,
> well, as of today, I finally decided to start signing my EMail messages using GPG to prove the integrety of my messages. As I am primarily using Mac OS, I downloaded MacGPG (http://gpgtools.org), installed it and set it all up. As I'm completely blind, I first had some issues with MacGPG, as it uses a special window (called, I think, the PINEntry window) to ask for the passphrase. Unfortunately, this window isn't accessible using VoiceOver, the screenreader built into Mac OS. However, I was now able to come up with a workaround and now it seems as if I can sign and encrypt messages without much trouble. I've informed the MacGPG developers about the accessibility issues in their software, and they seem very committed to solving it in an upcoming version. If anyone is interested, the related ticket can be found at http://gpgtools.lighthouseapp.com/projects/66001-macgpg2/tickets/94-pinentry-window-not-recognized-by-voiceover
>
> Now, I'd really like to test out EMail encryption so that I can verify this works properly, but for that, of course, I need one other party also using GPG. So, I was wondering, would it be possible for any of the GPG users on here to contact me offlist so that we could try this out once? If anyone on here would be willing to do that, I'd greatly appreciate that!
> Thanks for any help :-)
> Best regards,
> Robin.
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

On 5/22/12 2:06 PM, Robin Kipp wrote:
> Now, I'd really like to test out EMail encryption so that I can verify
> this works properly, but for that, of course, I need one other party
> also using GPG.

(Responded to on-list so that people can know your request has been
answered, otherwise you'll get drowned in dozens of responses)

Feel free to send an encrypted/signed email my way. The certificate is
available from the keyservers:

gpg --keyserver keyservers.org --recv-key 0xD6B98E10

I look forward to helping get you set up and straightened out! :)


_______________________________________________
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Hello all,
thanks a lot for that! Actually, I'm quite flattered by the amount of encrypted messages that came in over the last few minutes from all of you who wanted to help, I honestly wouldn't have expected so much feedback! I'll definitely reply to all of you who took the time and effort to reply to me with an encrypted message so that I could try and decrypt it in order to make it readable. Actually, I succeeded in decrypting all of them, but the exercise also showed that my workaround is far from being flawless. Nevertheless, it's been a lot of fun reading all the messages that ended up in my inbox, and I'll definitely reply during the next few hours!!! This is a great community, and I'm really glad that I'm now part of it - keep up the great work everyone!!! :-)
Best wishes,
Robin.

Am Di 22.05.2012, 23:37:46 schrieb Robin Kipp:
> Hello all,
> thanks a lot for that! Actually, I'm quite flattered by the amount of
> encrypted messages that came in over the last few minutes from all of you
> who wanted to help

I am happy for him but obviously this approach doesn't scale well. :-)

I don't know how much the demand is (or could be) but perhaps it would help
make more people use OpenPGP to have a round-robin email contact system.
Whoever is willing to help new users (like in this case) registers his email
address with the languages he's capable of communicating in. A new user could
send a mail to

de@newusers.gnupg.org
en@newusers.gnupg.org
...

and the mail would be forwarded to one or two people. OpenPGP-Addons for email
software (like Enigmail) could hint the user at this service.


Hauke
--
PGP: D44C 6A5B 71B0 427C CED3 025C BD7D 6D27 ECCB 5814

> I don't know how much the demand is (or could be) but perhaps it would help
> make more people use OpenPGP to have a round-robin email contact system.
> Whoever is willing to help new users (like in this case) registers his email
> address with the languages he's capable of communicating in. A new user could
> send a mail to
>
> de@newusers.gnupg.org
> en@newusers.gnupg.org
> ...
>
> and the mail would be forwarded to one or two people. OpenPGP-Addons for email
> software (like Enigmail) could hint the user at this service.

Hi all,

I absolutely agree. At GPGTools we thought about an automatic testing system. Checking if the mail was encrypted and / or signed and then sending out the according reply.

As with so many things and I assume Werner and the Enigmail people know the problem, we never managed to get it done. I'm not sure if one system to rule them all is ideal. Since if a user of GPGTools sendss an unencrypted but signed mail we'd direct him at the according knowledge base article. If we'd use one mail address for GPTools / Enigmail / terminal users, it might be hard to provide the correct information to help users. So it might not be automatable thus create more work.

Currently we encourage the user to send a test mail and do all this manually.

All the best,
steve

On Tue, 22 May 2012 21:28, stevebell@gulli.com said:

> If any of the GnuPG wizards like to chime in on the technical side on the bug tracker we're happy about any input.

AFAIK a Mac specific PINentry is used and not the GTK+ or QT version.
Thus I can't help.


Salam-Shalom,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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As a curiosity, any ideas on what you would do to avoid use of this system for spam purposes? (although encrypted spam won't be of much use :)

Steve <steve@gpgtools.org> wrote:

>> I don't know how much the demand is (or could be) but perhaps it
>would help
>> make more people use OpenPGP to have a round-robin email contact
>system.
>> Whoever is willing to help new users (like in this case) registers
>his email
>> address with the languages he's capable of communicating in. A new
>user could
>> send a mail to
>>
>> de@newusers.gnupg.org
>> en@newusers.gnupg.org
>> ...
>>
>> and the mail would be forwarded to one or two people. OpenPGP-Addons
>for email
>> software (like Enigmail) could hint the user at this service.
>
>Hi all,
>
>I absolutely agree. At GPGTools we thought about an automatic testing
>system. Checking if the mail was encrypted and / or signed and then
>sending out the according reply.
>
>As with so many things and I assume Werner and the Enigmail people know
>the problem, we never managed to get it done. I'm not sure if one
>system to rule them all is ideal. Since if a user of GPGTools sendss an
>unencrypted but signed mail we'd direct him at the according knowledge
>base article. If we'd use one mail address for GPTools / Enigmail /
>terminal users, it might be hard to provide the correct information to
>help users. So it might not be automatable thus create more work.
>
>Currently we encourage the user to send a test mail and do all this
>manually.
>
>All the best,
>steve_______________________________________________
>Gnupg-users mailing list
>Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
>http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

--
Branko Majic
Jabber: branko@majic.rs
Please use only Free formats when sending attachments to me.

Бранко Мајић
Џабер: branko@majic.rs
Молим вас да додатке шаљете искључиво у слободним форматима.

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi,

On 22.05.2012 21:06, Robin Kipp wrote:
> Hello all, well, as of today, I finally decided to start signing my
> EMail messages using GPG to prove the integrety of my messages. As
> I am primarily using Mac OS, I downloaded MacGPG
> (http://gpgtools.org), installed it and set it all up. As I'm
> completely blind, I first had some issues with MacGPG, as it uses a
> special window (called, I think, the PINEntry window) to ask for
> the passphrase. Unfortunately, this window isn't accessible using
> VoiceOver, the screenreader built into Mac OS. However, I was now
> able to come up with a workaround and now it seems as if I can sign
> and encrypt messages without much trouble. I've informed the
> MacGPG developers about the accessibility issues in their software,
> and they seem very committed to solving it in an upcoming version.
> If anyone is interested, the related ticket can be found at
> http://gpgtools.lighthouseapp.com/projects/66001-macgpg2/tickets/94-pinentry-window-not-recognized-by-voiceover
>
> Now, I'd really like to test out EMail encryption so that I can
> verify this works properly, but for that, of course, I need one
> other party also using GPG. So, I was wondering, would it be
> possible for any of the GPG users on here to contact me offlist so
> that we could try this out once? If anyone on here would be willing
> to do that, I'd greatly appreciate that! Thanks for any help :-)
> Best regards, Robin.

I cannot verify your signature, because you use PGP/MIME and this
mailing list uses mailing list software which somehow messes up with
headers and makes PGP/MIME signatures unverifiable.

You can test email encryption by emailing Adele.
pub 1024D/92AB3FF7 2002-03-06
uid Adele (The friendly OpenPGP email robot)
<adele-en@gnupp.de>
uid Adele (Der freundliche E-Mail-Roboter)
<adele@gnupp.de>
sub 1024g/62BDBFD4 2002-03-06




- --
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||

[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=5ilr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
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Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

On 23/05/12 11:19, Branko Majic wrote:
> As a curiosity, any ideas on what you would do to avoid use of this system
> for spam purposes? (although encrypted spam won't be of much use :)

A simple challenge-response system should suffice, I'd say. When a new user
mails to such an address, he receives a reply with a code that should again be
mailed back to indicate the user is a human and can respond to the challenge.

Bots could be adapted to defeat a lot of variations of this, but when it's a
special-purpose design, I don't think it would be worth their time. Otherwise,
use a captcha. I've never seen captcha's used in e-mail traffic, but it's easily
done.

Peter.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

_______________________________________________
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

I think we had the PGP/MIME vs inline discussion already.

@Robert: Would that qualify for a second entry in your FAQ with the pro/cons listed? I really would love to see some distilled output. The discussions on this list are very valuable and having the pro / con arguments in some sort of wiki / faq (maybe editable by the users) would imo bring benefit to users, trying to understand backgrounds.

@David let us know once you get the basic setup done. Would GitHub maybe be sufficient as a wiki? I am sure there are other nice solutions around, too.

Cheers,
steve



>
> I cannot verify your signature, because you use PGP/MIME and this
> mailing list uses mailing list software which somehow messes up with
> headers and makes PGP/MIME signatures unverifiable.
>
> You can test email encryption by emailing Adele.
> pub 1024D/92AB3FF7 2002-03-06
> uid Adele (The friendly OpenPGP email robot)
> <adele-en@gnupp.de>
> uid Adele (Der freundliche E-Mail-Roboter)
> <adele@gnupp.de>
> sub 1024g/62BDBFD4 2002-03-06

On 5/23/12 2:50 AM, Steve wrote:
> I absolutely agree. At GPGTools we thought about an automatic testing
> system. Checking if the mail was encrypted and / or signed and then
> sending out the according reply.

You may want to move this discussion over to the Enigmail list. We have
a system set up that does much of this already, called Adele. We'd be
happy to share.

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

On Wed, 23 May 2012 11:30, mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com said:

> I cannot verify your signature, because you use PGP/MIME and this
> mailing list uses mailing list software which somehow messes up with
> headers and makes PGP/MIME signatures unverifiable.

It is this old Mailman/Python illness. I really wonder what the state
of the fixes is. For years I ran a patched Mailman version but this
patch never made it into Mailman proper. Along with the hard to use
standard archiver (pipermail), this is a major drawback of Mailman.


Shalom-Salam,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:24, rjh@sixdemonbag.org said:

> You may want to move this discussion over to the Enigmail list. We have
> a system set up that does much of this already, called Adele. We'd be

Is that a different one than the Adele from Gnu_PP_, which is a closed
source web service?


Salam-Shalom,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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On 23.05.2012 12:56, Steve wrote:
> I think we had the PGP/MIME vs inline discussion already.

I am using PGP/MIME in this email. Can you verify my signature on this
email? You can find link to my public key in my signature.

Now I stop answering to these PGP/MIME vs INLINE. I think that I have
said enough in http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html .

--
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||
[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23.05.2012 16:24, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> On 5/23/12 2:50 AM, Steve wrote:
>> I absolutely agree. At GPGTools we thought about an automatic
>> testing system. Checking if the mail was encrypted and / or
>> signed and then sending out the according reply.
>
> You may want to move this discussion over to the Enigmail list. We
> have a system set up that does much of this already, called Adele.
> We'd be happy to share.

Why to move it to Enigmail list? That email which you quoted doesn't
have mention Enigmail. As far as I know, GPGTools doesn't even include
Enigmail.


- --
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||

[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=qf7k
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

On 5/23/12 11:38 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> Why to move it to Enigmail list?

According to American legend, a journalist once asked the infamous bank
robber John Dillinger why he robbed banks for a living. "Because that's
where the money is," he said.

Why should a discussion about Adele move over to the Enigmail list?
Because Enigmail runs Adele, has the source code for it, and the people
who are responsible for it are all over there. I'm not sure that all
the involved people are on this list. A discussion about Adele that
involves all the Adele people should probably go over to Enigmail,
because that's where Adele and the Adele maintainers are.

On 5/23/12 11:29 AM, Werner Koch wrote:
> Is that a different one than the Adele from Gnu_PP_, which is a closed
> source web service?

I don't know. We have the source and permission to use it -- my
impression is that it's Free Software, but it's been years since I've
taken a look at our Adele code and read the copyright notice. John
Clizbe would probably have a better handle on its licensing situation
than I do.

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On Wed, 23 May 2012 17:35, mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com said:
> On 23.05.2012 12:56, Steve wrote:
>> I think we had the PGP/MIME vs inline discussion already.
>
> I am using PGP/MIME in this email. Can you verify my signature on this
> email? You can find link to my public key in my signature.

Sure:

[.[.PGP Signed Part:Good signature from 4DB53CFE82A46728 Mika
Suomalainen (trust undefined) created at 2012-05-23T17:35:40+0200
using RSA]]


Salam-Shalom,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


_______________________________________________
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On Wed, 23 May 2012 12:30:54 +0300
Mika Suomalainen <mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello Mika,

> I cannot verify your signature, because you use PGP/MIME and this
> mailing list uses mailing list software which somehow messes up with
> headers and makes PGP/MIME signatures unverifiable.

Robin's sig verifies okay here. As do most(1) of the sigs I come across
in any mailing list. Most of the lists I subscribe to are run on
mailman. BTW.

Or have I missed your meaning?

(1) Occasionally one doesn't verify, but that's always been because of an
error introduced elsewhere, not by mailman.

--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
Life's short, don't make a mess of it
No Time To Be 21 - The Adverts

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23/05/12 16:38, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> On 23.05.2012 16:24, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
>> On 5/23/12 2:50 AM, Steve wrote:
>>> I absolutely agree. At GPGTools we thought about an automatic
>>> testing system. Checking if the mail was encrypted and / or
>>> signed and then sending out the according reply.
>
>> You may want to move this discussion over to the Enigmail list. We
>> have a system set up that does much of this already, called Adele.
>> We'd be happy to share.
>
> Why to move it to Enigmail list? That email which you quoted doesn't
> have mention Enigmail. As far as I know, GPGTools doesn't even include
> Enigmail.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>
Yup and I was on there list too - and effectively told to shove off when I pointed out
errors in enigmail - they don't like testing and error reporting - so kfuc em

David

- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvQlPAAoJEOJpqm7flREx71MH/AhKdugWlY764s7OaHv8EDbq
1NFHolY8ToJVBt7jTqaJCGykvmloaRwEgKjRLG4hZTvbLGQkaL3Jh7usCL9GG4FA
wNEVwF69YxPjWYPjChu59nPMEFISMa0zfhiktK74tOatQQCwVHKBh6VqWoKxvvtO
Dxd17EYf4LylqC8A1WLURShehh9JxC7axkMrwBlTK0h8QktFu4WnttLo43/O1A39
DMqmyaIcFnLorKVT7roEAcUIMfy1ie3Tir5L2Ct4fu/yFZ39yNXgxRh12IUCZky0
1AVlTqYw2DV3zKlMCcZ4lDXGnXMAaso8elwatv/z4zgLm0NkHyyf7q85hVx+sKg=
=bglt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23.05.2012 18:54, Werner Koch wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 17:35, mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com said:
>> On 23.05.2012 12:56, Steve wrote:
>>> I think we had the PGP/MIME vs inline discussion already.
>>
>> I am using PGP/MIME in this email. Can you verify my signature
>> on this email? You can find link to my public key in my
>> signature.
>
> Sure:
>
> [.[.PGP Signed Part:Good signature from 4DB53CFE82A46728 Mika
> Suomalainen (trust undefined) created at 2012-05-23T17:35:40+0200
> using RSA]]
>
>
> Salam-Shalom,
>
> Werner
>

Weird. All PGP/MIME signed emails here cannot be verified if they are
from mailing lists.

PS. I am on this list so you don't need to CC me unless your email
client forces it.

- --
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||

[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=eBwo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Gnupg-users mailing list
Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23.05.2012 18:54, Werner Koch wrote:


Weird. All PGP/MIME signed emails here cannot be verified if they are
from mailing lists.

PS. I am on this list so you don't need to CC me unless your email
client forces it.

- --
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||

[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=hD3Y
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23/05/12 16:54, Werner Koch wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 17:35, mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com said:
>> On 23.05.2012 12:56, Steve wrote:
>>> I think we had the PGP/MIME vs inline discussion already.
>>
>> I am using PGP/MIME in this email. Can you verify my signature on this
>> email? You can find link to my public key in my signature.
>
> Sure:
>
> [.[.PGP Signed Part:Good signature from 4DB53CFE82A46728 Mika
> Suomalainen (trust undefined) created at 2012-05-23T17:35:40+0200
> using RSA]]
>
>
> Salam-Shalom,
>
> Werner
>
Hi Verner,

I've had your key for ages - so why not attach it?

David



- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvQ20AAoJEOJpqm7flRExbMkH/jOiHf9n76WrKXBmyWmp6cx4
ICXNF2ijkNrFmKE08v7E9zW9DpropD94mtIrtnuiLRMKKnwcMBxz7YnJNYNllOwr
Ef278lwE6cfWJ/KXSRvFrrigZbkywyw2pfXDME7mElFqIJg8uvvT5Akl581Y7TXj
4vzbcQ2B8EELQUsK9QyBiaVmL4+VLPSEvp4Pq9N0D9I+C0BDjlMX8k+4//TdBj+j
p8qfSBM1oIGTwXLOhCz9p/E0q8C6SH3//e6LYqu/mY0MxNNzxgKo7v8X3ECDnL0d
f40WO36cP1XSzZInkhnmjHS1sWkXv1iq4zXVxrini7jtwX1DuOWcVYLod4BDK/4=
=JXUz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
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On Wed, 23 May 2012 17:59, mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com said:

> PS. I am on this list so you don't need to CC me unless your email
> client forces it.

Set your MFT header correctly, if you want to avoid a CC.


Shalom-Salam,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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Mika Suomalainen <4FBD03CB.1070503@hotmail.com> May 23, 2012 12:38:40 PM
wrote:
> I am using PGP/MIME in this email. Can you verify my signature on this
> email? You can find link to my public key in my signature.

Good signature from Mika Suomalainen <mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com>
Key ID: 0x82A46728 / Signed on: 5/23/12 11:35 AM
Key fingerprint: 24BC 1573 B8EE D666 D10A AA65 4DB5 3CFE 82A4 6728


Charly
Mac OS X 10.7.4 (11E52) MacBook Intel C2Duo 2GHz
MacGPG2-2.0.17-9 - Thunderbird 12.0.1 Enigmail 1.5a1pre (20120521-2224)

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Hey David et all,

first: GPGTools Installer does indeed contain Enigmail and allows installation. Not sure if it has the latest version since Mozilla's crazy versioning means lots of maintenance and we couldn't find a way to automate including new Enigmail versions. Also not sure if it is smart to include it in the future. We'd have to find some smart mechanism to deal with updates.

David, which list are you referring to? GPGTools mailing list? If so, I'm not so sure what you write is correct. Can't recall anybody ever was told to shove off. We had the Inline vs. GPG/MIME discussion in the GPGTools Project and have made a decision for PGP/MIME since we believe that it is the future and is a documented standard. If mailing-list software has issues it is at the devs of that software to step up and continue development of their software. The fact that Werner even wrote a patch which seems to have been ignored is even more frustrating.

If Enigmail encounters problems with mails encrypted with GPGTools, we'll be happy to work things out with Patrick from the Enigmail team. And I know that the GPGTools project was in direct contact with him. So I don't really see the drama. Let's try to be constructive and solve problems. Not cause some where there aren't any.

And as always: feel free to write a patch. :)

<3

steve


> Signierter PGP Teil
> > Why to move it to Enigmail list? That email which you quoted doesn't
> > have mention Enigmail. As far as I know, GPGTools doesn't even include
> > Enigmail.
>
> Yup and I was on there list too - and effectively told to shove off when I pointed out
> errors in enigmail - they don't like testing and error reporting - so kfuc em

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23/05/12 18:39, Steve wrote:
> Hey David et all,
>
> first: GPGTools Installer does indeed contain Enigmail and allows installation. Not sure if it has the latest version since Mozilla's crazy versioning means lots of maintenance and we couldn't find a way to automate including new Enigmail versions. Also not sure if it is smart to include it in the future. We'd have to find some smart mechanism to deal with updates.
>
> David, which list are you referring to? GPGTools mailing list? If so, I'm not so sure what you write is correct. Can't recall anybody ever was told to shove off. We had the Inline vs. GPG/MIME discussion in the GPGTools Project and have made a decision for PGP/MIME since we believe that it is the future and is a documented standard. If mailing-list software has issues it is at the devs of that software to step up and continue development of their software. The fact that Werner even wrote a patch which seems to have been ignored is even more frustrating.
>
> If Enigmail encounters problems with mails encrypted with GPGTools, we'll be happy to work things out with Patrick from the Enigmail team. And I know that the GPGTools project was in direct contact with him. So I don't really see the drama. Let's try to be constructive and solve problems. Not cause some where there aren't any.
>
> And as always: feel free to write a patch. :)
>
> <3
>
> steve
>
>
>> Signierter PGP Teil
>>> Why to move it to Enigmail list? That email which you quoted doesn't
>>> have mention Enigmail. As far as I know, GPGTools doesn't even include
>>> Enigmail.
>>
>> Yup and I was on there list too - and effectively told to shove off when I pointed out
>> errors in enigmail - they don't like testing and error reporting - so kfuc em
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
First off,

It was the enigmail mail list which I un-subscribed too. I am currently using Mint Linux 32
bit LXDE. I don't trust and have no faith in Openpgp's ability to encrypt to predefined
per-recipient rules. I have set my system to do it manually.

Now I have 3 Linux Laptops. I started testing Linux distros with gpg2 - enigmail with
Thunderbird - all 100 per cent Openpgp failed to initialise with pgp2 and in fact Openpgp
always signed to my private key not my public key when using percipient rules. Here is a
list of main Linux distros which all fail to initialise pgp2:

Opensuse 12.1 12..2 11.1/4 either 32/64 bit with KDE/Gnome/LXDE
Ubuntu (any flavour) KDE/Gnome/LXDE 32/64 bit
Linux Mint KDE/Gnome?LXDE 32/64 bit
Fedora-16 KDE/Gnome/LXDE 32/64 bit

(With all official updates).

With Thunderbird Enigmail/Openpgp with gpg2 your system may freeze you may not digitally
sign or encrypt to someone's public key via e-mail. You may not digitally sign an e-mail
whilst at the same time encrypting. Be warned - any encryption done will be to your private
key and not to your public key. Enigmail may fail to initialise (gpg2).

There is no compatibility in above Linux distros with Enimail/Openpgp and gpg2 - you are
best advised to stick with gpg (GnuPG) 1..4.11.

I have posted this info on my main page to my web site - I have tested. And tested sending
people e-mails - No one to my comments seriously - even when I told Verner - he said let
kgpg handle commands - why? gpg2 specific commands do not work with gpg2.

Now testing with a fellow Linux user revealed that if you have both gpg 1.4.11 and gpg2
installed you don't get any problems. So I can only conclude that gpg2 is an add-on widget
to gpg 1.4.11 - gpg2 only recognises gpg 1.4.11 commands.

Openpgp/enigmail does not support gpg2 unless one has installed gpg 1.4.11 - but I no longer
trust Openpgp/enigmail to do anything.

David



- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvTWJAAoJEOJpqm7flRExDTsH/ic3He3Xe9eSF/rZ+eP1fofX
+5imrR22qsDvxLUmy4MDJQ4C5H8CKkX9Yp2Trt1D4Srt+oWFO3D4mbIu6arfaJYX
SGR7KfrAmV2iuYjJ51eHcAXilIGLqjkFnhXlnM+FwbN0rlLkLYY/Iht3IzeRqCvX
w95exHeLalgNoKP1BVLyXKLZYJA03IOC14RzFaptuOY2yGz+DvEpaFj/pmGRUeVu
7xQ3Bi85VjOTXGx/uCFDxzNcSBWSpiy4ikbpwPaxbH3pSVAH26T6y2qq30ifYhkz
7hS3Y5iXqW2dIjqBygkhHsT1ozuJTSo4vZaFJ7OSesgSkkUc2aasKeKIkxgm6D0=
=pLIB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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On 5/23/12 3:07 PM, david@gbenet.com wrote:
> Now I have 3 Linux Laptops. I started testing Linux distros with gpg2
> - enigmail with Thunderbird - all 100 per cent Openpgp failed to
> initialise with pgp2 and in fact Openpgp always signed to my private
> key not my public key when using percipient rules. Here is a list of
> main Linux distros which all fail to initialise pgp2:

As you were told on the Enigmail list, thousands of people have found
that GnuPG 2 works well with Enigmail on Linux. I demonstrated this to
you by sending to the list a correctly-signed email written on an Ubuntu
12.04LTS system using GnuPG 2.

If you're having troubles getting Enigmail to work there are many people
who are willing to help you. However, talking about how GnuPG 2 is
completely broken on Linux, and how Enigmail is clearly too buggy to
use, and everything else, is not exactly constructive.

GnuPG 2 works just fine for the overwhelming majority of Linux users. I
don't know what your particular problem is, but it can likely be resolved.

> Be warned - any encryption done will be to your private key and not
> to your public key. Enigmail may fail to initialise (gpg2).

If it were encrypting to the private key, this would be a digital
signature. That's what a digital signature is -- an encryption
operation using the private key. I don't understand your complaint. If
you're saying "Enigmail will sign emails," well, yes, it's designed to
do that -- but I don't think that's what you're trying to say here.

> There is no compatibility in above Linux distros with
> Enimail/Openpgp and gpg2 - you are best advised to stick with gpg
> (GnuPG) 1..4.11.

I have been using Enigmail with GnuPG 2.x for literally years, and over
that time I have had no trouble interoperating with people using other
Linux distros or even entirely different operating systems. This is the
first time in all my years of using Enigmail that I have heard anyone
tell me that Enigmail's output is not interoperable with other systems.
This is not to say that you're not having trouble with Enigmail -- far
from it! -- but claiming there is "no compatibility" is a fairly extreme
claim, and I'm going to need to see some supporting evidence.

> Now testing with a fellow Linux user revealed that if you have both
> gpg 1.4.11 and gpg2 installed you don't get any problems. So I can
> only conclude that gpg2 is an add-on widget to gpg 1.4.11 - gpg2 only
> recognises gpg 1.4.11 commands.

GnuPG 2 is not an add-on widget to GnuPG 1.4.

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23/05/12 20:28, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> On 5/23/12 3:07 PM, david@gbenet.com wrote:
>> Now I have 3 Linux Laptops. I started testing Linux distros with gpg2
>> - enigmail with Thunderbird - all 100 per cent Openpgp failed to
>> initialise with pgp2 and in fact Openpgp always signed to my private
>> key not my public key when using percipient rules. Here is a list of
>> main Linux distros which all fail to initialise pgp2:
>
> As you were told on the Enigmail list, thousands of people have found
> that GnuPG 2 works well with Enigmail on Linux. I demonstrated this to
> you by sending to the list a correctly-signed email written on an Ubuntu
> 12.04LTS system using GnuPG 2.
>
> If you're having troubles getting Enigmail to work there are many people
> who are willing to help you. However, talking about how GnuPG 2 is
> completely broken on Linux, and how Enigmail is clearly too buggy to
> use, and everything else, is not exactly constructive.
>
> GnuPG 2 works just fine for the overwhelming majority of Linux users. I
> don't know what your particular problem is, but it can likely be resolved.
>
>> Be warned - any encryption done will be to your private key and not
>> to your public key. Enigmail may fail to initialise (gpg2).
>
> If it were encrypting to the private key, this would be a digital
> signature. That's what a digital signature is -- an encryption
> operation using the private key. I don't understand your complaint. If
> you're saying "Enigmail will sign emails," well, yes, it's designed to
> do that -- but I don't think that's what you're trying to say here.
>
>> There is no compatibility in above Linux distros with
>> Enimail/Openpgp and gpg2 - you are best advised to stick with gpg
>> (GnuPG) 1..4.11.
>
> I have been using Enigmail with GnuPG 2.x for literally years, and over
> that time I have had no trouble interoperating with people using other
> Linux distros or even entirely different operating systems. This is the
> first time in all my years of using Enigmail that I have heard anyone
> tell me that Enigmail's output is not interoperable with other systems.
> This is not to say that you're not having trouble with Enigmail -- far
> from it! -- but claiming there is "no compatibility" is a fairly extreme
> claim, and I'm going to need to see some supporting evidence.
>
>> Now testing with a fellow Linux user revealed that if you have both
>> gpg 1.4.11 and gpg2 installed you don't get any problems. So I can
>> only conclude that gpg2 is an add-on widget to gpg 1.4.11 - gpg2 only
>> recognises gpg 1.4.11 commands.
>
> GnuPG 2 is not an add-on widget to GnuPG 1.4.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>
I ran the debugging programme with Openpgp debugging options to console and I got the
message that with gpg2 installed one was not able to digitally sign an e-mail whilst
encrypting to their public key which in all the named distros it encrypted to my private
key - fact.

Another user who was using Fedora-16 64 bit with gnome stated that Openpgp would not
initialise pgp2 - and me? I ran Fedora-16 32 bit - I had to reboot before openpgp would work
(so badly as was useless) with gpg2. Fact I even when and installed Fedora-16 64 bit fact
and encountered the same issues, Fact.

It is a fact that Openpgp will only work if BOTH gpg 1.4.11 and the widget gpg2 is then
added. Fact. Most Linux users have BOTH by default. Fact. That's why no one's reporting aany
problems. Fact. If you remove from your system gpg 1.4.11 then you have real problems with
open Openpgp - even Kleopatra. Fact

Now if you don't like these facts then that's not a problem. I have decided to tell every
one not to use gpg2 without having installed gpg 1.4.11. Now as I haave spent the last 10
days playing with all these Linux distros and sending all these test e-mails which have
provided factual evidence as stated I can only conclude that Openpgp will only work with
1.4.11 installed. Now I have not mentioned anything about Windows XP and the latest version
of PGP4Win which some times encrypts to my girlfriends private and not to my public key I've
not figured out that one yet - unless I install gpg 1.4.11!!

I will say this I am running Linux Mint LXDE 32 bit - on a 64 bit Acer Laptop with all
updates. My gpg-agent's running because I added it to my .xsession file. Now I have
un-ticked the box - use agent. Now Openpgp is pretty variable in how long my passphrase
lasts - it could last all day yet it could last to the next e-mail.

But I don't trust Openpgp to honour per-recipient rules. It does not work ie it will not
encrypt to the e-mail address as set out in its own rule. Fact.

Now if you can't even trust the software to do what it says on the tin - then you have to
go back to basics as I have done. Fact.

Now I have pointed out some serious short comings that are spread over Linux Distros and
Windows XP with Thunderbird and enigmail/Openpgp installed. Fact.

I am not angry - far from it - I got a lot of brain ache burning DVDs installing various
Linux Distros and playing with them. I would have tested more - but hey - I pointed out the
facts of my discovery. Now all my 3 Linux laptops are Mint Linux LXDE 32 bit installed with
TB gpg 1.4.11 enigmail/Openpgp - No probs. Fact. But I still do not trust enigmail/openpgp
to do anything on the tin. Fact.

Now on the whole as no one's interested in these facts - I don't much care. I worry about
sending an encrypted mail to some one's public key in case it does not work. It digitally
signs e-mails - but I have no confidence no assurance of encrypting to a public key. My
girlfriend who only sends me encrypted mail sometimes sends me encrypted mail that I cannot
read. Why? The answer is very very simple - sometimes Openpgp/enigmail signs to your
private key and not the person your e-mailing's public key. Fact. I'm not angry about that -
why? Because the error does not happen all the time. Fact.

All I do is repeat the facts. Get 50 variants of popular Linux distros KDE/Gnome?LXDE do not
install gpg 1.4.11 just gpg2 TB Enigmail/Openpgp and have fun.

David

- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvUroAAoJEOJpqm7flREx6c8H/21/QifwXOuHbj03rYFtJvkG
cBHVSBvt+z3z8NBSPWPkzZDQY2tKqESTU3BbPtVv8qw5/GJkv3FUNQUVeoiXZSwp
lbVeC+V36+nB9NWpLB8FuAxvggFfbrq4/+pnP+slHk9WSFtgX6Ow7D/GcPnOzC26
EQAYBb0+gimmPrrjbVjaS3sB6Qz0Y75a+ZEp+2lntr8Igna5V01R2sOfMzQFrvQF
hiIgB5OcmfD0UbPyeWgshlYHtEOO8TR53sVaOBxnMqXMT4AEYCisMyAaSkJsGPU5
5o3rEEbKcDAMd7NHs8kkilw2qKhgYYTh3RKOKiHdkumD5MgwCl2n2hviXswiJIs=
=2dcQ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 23.05.2012 18:57, Brad Rogers wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 12:30:54 +0300 Mika Suomalainen
> <mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Mika,
>
>> I cannot verify your signature, because you use PGP/MIME and
>> this mailing list uses mailing list software which somehow messes
>> up with headers and makes PGP/MIME signatures unverifiable.
>
> Robin's sig verifies okay here. As do most(1) of the sigs I come
> across in any mailing list. Most of the lists I subscribe to are
> run on mailman. BTW.
>
> Or have I missed your meaning?
>
> (1) Occasionally one doesn't verify, but that's always been because
> of an error introduced elsewhere, not by mailman.

At least Enigmail fails to recognize PGP/MIME signatures on some
mailman mailing lists.


- --
[Mika Suomalainen](https://mkaysi.github.com/) ||
[gpg --keyserver pool.sks-keyservers.net --recv-keys
4DB53CFE82A46728](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/key.txt) ||
[Why do I sign my
emails?](http://mkaysi.github.com/PGP/WhyDoISignEmails.html) ||
[Please don't send
HTML.](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/HTML.html) ||
[Please don't
toppost](http://mkaysi.github.com/articles/complaining/topposting.html) ||

[This signature](https://gist.github.com/2643070) ||
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.19 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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=Zqh5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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On Wed, 23 May 2012 18:17, david@gbenet.com said:

> I've had your key for ages - so why not attach it?

Sorry, I don't understand. You want my key? Look into the OpenPGP mail
header or simply use a keyserver.


Shalom-Salam,

Werner

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On Thu, 24 May 2012 10:09:05 +0300
Mika Suomalainen <mika.henrik.mainio@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hello Mika,

> At least Enigmail fails to recognize PGP/MIME signatures on some
> mailman mailing lists.

That would explain the difference in what you and I see; No enigmail
here.

--
Regards _
/ ) "The blindingly obvious is
/ _)rad never immediately apparent"
You're the psychotic daughter of a psychotic mother
Pure Mania - The Vibrators

On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 09:39:04PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:

> I ran the debugging programme with Openpgp debugging options to
> console and I got the message that with gpg2 installed one was not
> able to digitally sign an e-mail whilst encrypting to their public
> key which in all the named distros it encrypted to my private key -
> fact.

I have no idea how a debugger would know that you couldn't sign an email.

> It is a fact that Openpgp will only work if BOTH gpg 1.4.11 and the
> widget gpg2 is then added. Fact. Most Linux users have BOTH by
> default. Fact. That's why no one's reporting aany problems. Fact. If
> you remove from your system gpg 1.4.11 then you have real problems
> with open Openpgp - even Kleopatra. Fact

On my Gentoo system, there is no gpg v1 installed:

mwood@mhw ~ $ dir /usr/bin/gpg*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Sep 15 2011 /usr/bin/gpg -> gpg2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 699072 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 268352 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-agent
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 130720 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgconf
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 142736 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-connect-agent
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 50627 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgdir
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 205 Jun 30 2011 /usr/bin/gpgen
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18448 Sep 21 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-error
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1804 Sep 21 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-error-config
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8990 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpg-key2ps
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 39320 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgkey2ssh
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4005 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpglist
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2750 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpg-mailkeys
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3521 Jan 11 09:14 /usr/bin/gpgme-config
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 26864 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgparsemail
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1708 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgparticipants
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 13830 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgsigs
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 382016 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgsm
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4635 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Sep 15 2011 /usr/bin/gpgv -> gpgv2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 327504 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgv2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 22760 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgwrap
mwood@mhw ~ $ gpg --version
gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.17
libgcrypt 1.4.6
Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
<http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.

As you can see, 'gpg' and 'gpgv' are symlinks to the v2 programs.

Nevertheless, I just sent a signed message to myself at another
address, from Thunderbird, using Enigmail. It arrived signed, with a
valid signature. Thunderbird + Enigmail + gpg2 works. You should
consider the possibility that you have a different problem.

--
Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mwood@IUPUI.Edu
Asking whether markets are efficient is like asking whether people are smart.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 5/24/12 3:09 AM, Mika Suomalainen wrote:
> At least Enigmail fails to recognize PGP/MIME signatures on some
> mailman mailing lists.

Every time this has been reported to us, it has turned out to be a bug
in Mailman and not Enigmail. If you can find a valid PGP/MIME message
that Enigmail is not correctly parsing, we'd love to see it!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org

iFYEAREIAAYFAk++NYcACgkQI4Br5da5jhB3wQDgmc9SCy+QAoyt7G3kRFI285UL
eRTZDto1FMSuHwDgmtGnm/gGwn+vPDURp4ro+8qIBDQEMOgiPa7u7A==
=V/we
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24/05/12 13:55, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 09:39:04PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:
>
>> I ran the debugging programme with Openpgp debugging options to
>> console and I got the message that with gpg2 installed one was not
>> able to digitally sign an e-mail whilst encrypting to their public
>> key which in all the named distros it encrypted to my private key -
>> fact.
>
> I have no idea how a debugger would know that you couldn't sign an email.
>
>> It is a fact that Openpgp will only work if BOTH gpg 1.4.11 and the
>> widget gpg2 is then added. Fact. Most Linux users have BOTH by
>> default. Fact. That's why no one's reporting aany problems. Fact. If
>> you remove from your system gpg 1.4.11 then you have real problems
>> with open Openpgp - even Kleopatra. Fact
>
> On my Gentoo system, there is no gpg v1 installed:
>
> mwood@mhw ~ $ dir /usr/bin/gpg*
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Sep 15 2011 /usr/bin/gpg -> gpg2
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 699072 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg2
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 268352 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-agent
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 130720 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgconf
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 142736 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-connect-agent
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 50627 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgdir
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 205 Jun 30 2011 /usr/bin/gpgen
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 18448 Sep 21 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-error
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1804 Sep 21 2011 /usr/bin/gpg-error-config
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 8990 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpg-key2ps
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 39320 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgkey2ssh
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4005 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpglist
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2750 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpg-mailkeys
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 3521 Jan 11 09:14 /usr/bin/gpgme-config
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 26864 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgparsemail
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1708 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgparticipants
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 13830 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgsigs
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 382016 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgsm
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4635 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgsm-gencert.sh
> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Sep 15 2011 /usr/bin/gpgv -> gpgv2
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 327504 Jun 29 2011 /usr/bin/gpgv2
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 22760 Apr 2 15:28 /usr/bin/gpgwrap
> mwood@mhw ~ $ gpg --version
> gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.17
> libgcrypt 1.4.6
> Copyright (C) 2011 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later
> <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
> This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
> There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
>
> As you can see, 'gpg' and 'gpgv' are symlinks to the v2 programs.
>
> Nevertheless, I just sent a signed message to myself at another
> address, from Thunderbird, using Enigmail. It arrived signed, with a
> valid signature. Thunderbird + Enigmail + gpg2 works. You should
> consider the possibility that you have a different problem.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

- From tests carried out - Mandrava Linux was ok. I suspect that other Linux distros have no
real problems - just because your works - does not mean that every other Linux distro works.
I stated I only ran tests on a few Linux Distros - I too have 5 e-mail accounts and could do
multiple testing - with surprising results. We all think that at the core all Linux distros
are the same - they are not. Heavily branded distros where the core of every programme is
re-written is bad news for the user.

I case in point. Seahorse. You are supposed to set how long a passphrase will exist for. In
Ubuntu and opensuse this feature has been removed. Such programmes as "apt" are not
installed - and do not appear on opensuse's list of "approved" apps.

But it's not all about re-writing all the code for hard-wired branding. A women wrote to the
enigmail list and said that her Fedora-16 64 bit had failed to initialise gpg2 - she ven
whent as far as going to Mozilla and downloading and installing Thunderbird. She even went
to the enigmail's home page and downloaded and installed the correct version of enigmail for
Thunderbird. The result? Openpgp caused her system to freeze.

I was the only person who answered her - I was the only person to conduct tests on Fedora-16
KDE/Gnome/LXDE 32/64 bit. I stated the results of my tests. Further in opensuse gpg2 is
installed by default - a user-agent is installed by default - but in all versions of
opensuse tested no user-agent was ever running. As stated the Seahorse was the default
daemon - but had the ability to set how long a passphase would last had been programmed out.

With branded versions (not all) of popular Linux distros the term "open source" means
"closed source." But we are still faced with the problems of GPG4WIN and the problem of
directly installing from source. We are still faced with the fact that Openpgp does not
support gpg2.

Now I'm running Mint Linux LXDE 32 bit - the Seahorse as provided has no way of controlling
the length in minutes your passphrase stays around. Linux Mint uses Ubuntu software sources
and that function has been written out.

I am trying to install Seahorse directly - I have to google for all its dependences - which
are not installed - though I've got a "Seahorse!" You either get the original open source
software or a pre-packaged look-a-like. I suspect that when you install a branded Linux -
you install Thunderbird and Enigmail all these open source packages are re-written to be a
closed shop.

But it still does not answer why direct installs have the same problem. Or why Windows XP
with Thunderbird and Enigmail have problems.

David

- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvloPAAoJEOJpqm7flRExNxUH/3XtL5klqWGR1QBZ7Gr32DU6
oxvTQgwniU+v/EwYQYP7x1aHdXWEudVj4FBt6F6MK8sbCo/FEmi77CLoTINFY+Q8
ceOEtd7Djle1gI45xCSAP2PYhb7x5nRCXJo3Jwojc7f2s+QFWtrlI2cfSDBFHag1
EtwRh4CHNAeMjUdfdsQt63PLEAexgJZFr2GTQQ9UnfsAbIOoRyiYymAzoSkvVc6K
g2JFLarj7YFaoqyEUxFS2NfF0EGqPQ2363nhBH4b7vD/4c8zrCQ6WPBwxKRApGBV
11mmwCTvCycf75OrT37R68iYzhDdrxZFceQ/dcEmBV/hPw7pjfIvJwnmytjngR8=
=pU3e
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Hi David,

your mails are hard to read because you do not trim the quotes and use
lines of 90 characters or longer. Please don't use more than about 72.
One hint anyway:

GNOME has a thing called gnome-keyring which hijacks the gpg-agent IPC
and thus you run into problems when using GnuPG-2. It is possible to
switch this off (look for a components configure options in
gnome-keyring). Seahorse does something quite similar but usually does
not break GnuPG's internal communication channels. I don't know which
distribution versions enable these misfeatures, though.


Salam-Shalom,

Werner

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>> mwood@mhw ~ $ dir /usr/bin/gpg*
^^^
--
keyID: 0x4BFEBB31



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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 24/05/12 19:48, Werner Koch wrote:
> Hi David,
>
> your mails are hard to read because you do not trim the quotes and use
> lines of 90 characters or longer. Please don't use more than about 72.
> One hint anyway:
>
> GNOME has a thing called gnome-keyring which hijacks the gpg-agent IPC
> and thus you run into problems when using GnuPG-2. It is possible to
> switch this off (look for a components configure options in
> gnome-keyring). Seahorse does something quite similar but usually does
> not break GnuPG's internal communication channels. I don't know which
> distribution versions enable these misfeatures, though.
>
>
> Salam-Shalom,
>
> Werner
>

Hello Verner - first off I will try to write much shorter sentences :)

I have gnome-keyring installed - but no icon to click on and nothing in my menus to launch
the programme. If I open a terminal and type gnome-keyring - all I get is:

david@laptop-1 ~ $ gnome-keyring
usage: gnome-keyring command [options]
commands: certificate-exception
import
version
david@laptop-1 ~ $

The "help" gnome-keyring --help does not give a list of user commands. A quick search shows
I've got gnome-keyring files in my /etc - /usr/bin - usr/include - usr/lib -usr/lib/cli -
usr/lib/debug/usr/lib - the list goes on :)

So how may I edit components in the gnome-keyring?

David

- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJPvpvxAAoJEOJpqm7flRExU9UIAJWiTwDZMqdzKKeP/3vnkMos
+uXe5iLa82YBgAXOuGFZ+F7I8KmJbZ3WlSR94QmbANOk/RYYkplyz5cyXDdehrTB
ElCiVw8RQN+/fantrvdKT9c/Syx0XXY1ps/bBZ3kOrApdjFTPI/+h2KA/OcQwuQL
Pc/ya0b3OejrgnrLQP+JZ0+YV/gwp+zXKCJIOLXb7vL3pElbdjG2n88K3+KZqAK2
aHsvfc+IjWxtJbxsJxQv8sS8zakrnf2uUlypgPLO/EAcVY1z2ymj56cUPwFO4xmX
KtgoRFRzPQGa7XHuFNDbFq6oSa7/mkTlh/jyzNH0wI5P0OzOVKIenwp566G6TYQ=
=aGYL
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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On Thu, 24 May 2012 21:27, mick.crane@gmail.com said:
>>> mwood@mhw ~ $ dir /usr/bin/gpg*

10.2 `dir': Briefly list directory contents
===========================================

`dir' is equivalent to `ls -C -b'; that is, by default files are listed
in columns, sorted vertically, and special characters are represented
by backslash escape sequences.


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On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 04:55:59PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:
> - From tests carried out - Mandrava Linux was ok. I suspect that other Linux distros have no
> real problems - just because your works - does not mean that every other Linux distro works.

However: because it works on my system, even though there is no GPG v1
installed on it anywhere, does demonstrate that gpg v1 is not required
and gpg v2 is not the problem.

--
Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mwood@IUPUI.Edu
Asking whether markets are efficient is like asking whether people are smart.

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 08:27:59PM +0100, michael crane wrote:
> >> mwood@mhw ~ $ dir /usr/bin/gpg*

Sorry, that's lingering evidence of my VMS habits:

mwood@mhw ~ $ alias dir
alias dir='ls -l'

--
Mark H. Wood, Lead System Programmer mwood@IUPUI.Edu
Asking whether markets are efficient is like asking whether people are smart.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/05/12 14:03, Mark H. Wood wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 04:55:59PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:
>> - From tests carried out - Mandrava Linux was ok. I suspect that other Linux distros have no
>> real problems - just because your works - does not mean that every other Linux distro works.
>
> However: because it works on my system, even though there is no GPG v1
> installed on it anywhere, does demonstrate that gpg v1 is not required
> and gpg v2 is not the problem.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users

Therefore, are we saying that with some Linux distros that happen to have installed gp2
automatically that those Linux distros have a problem with gpg2?

For example opensuse - all versions tested:

(1) When you open the address book in TB select an address right mouse click you get an
option to create a per-recipient rule for that person. (Openpgp/inigmail is installed for
you to do this). With gpg2 installed this option flickers jumps and fades out.

(2) With gpg1 - it is clear - no jumping -no fading no fuzziness - you get other options -
such a delete - which are not available when just pgp2 is installed. This same flickering
and fuzzing occurs with Fedora-16 all GUIs 32/64 bit and you only have one menu option which
is to create a rule - though it flickers on and off one does not know one's created a rule
till you go an check it within the options of openpgp.

(3) Having created such a rule you decide to digitally sign and send an encrypted e-mail to
that person using their public key.

(4) But - and this is the big big big but - you can not digitally sign whilst encrypting -
and worse when the person gets that e-mail they say "Why did you send me an e-mail that I
can not open." These are real person to person facts with gpg2 installed on all the Linux
distros I tested.

(5) Now I say that gpg2 does not work with the Linux distros I tested. Not all Linux distros
are the same they convert open source to proprietary branded Linux.

(6) And what's worse when end users download Thunderbird from Mozilla when they download
enigmail from their respective web sites and correctly install correctly configure they
still have the same problems with gpg2.

This is why I said and listed those Linux distros that gpg2 does not work with. Now I
suggested that perhaps enigmail/openpgp was at fault - and got told to bugger off cos it was
a gpg2 problem.

Now as a scientist who believes in the scientific method I have tested and have drawn my
tests into the public domain. Now some people's reaction was not helpful - reading in that I
was angry without reading the contents of my e-mail - these are fuck-wits. Lowlife
cyber-hoodies. But I am patient even with fuck-wits. I may add that I do not consider you a
fuck wwit or indeed a cyber-hoodie.

But we are still faced with the issues raised thy don't go away:

(1) Because "Oh it works on my system so it must work on other people's."

(2) "Bugger off we are not interested in how many Linux distros you tested it's not got
anything to do with us."

(3) "Its not gpg2 it's something else." The "something else" is always a mystery.

To conclude:

(1) Some heavily branded Linux distros do re-write all the open source code to lock users in
and deprive them of some functionality - Seahorse is a case in point

(2) Even when installing the open source for TB and Enigmail gpg2 does not work on Linux
distros (I tested)

(3) Some Linux distros (the one's I tested) do not support gpg2

These are the tested facts of the matter - these are real person to person experiences.

There is one commonality which stands out and that is gpg2.

We may also say:

(1) Do not Install any version of opensuse any version of Ubuntu any version of Fedora-16
and any version of Linux Mint. Why? The gpg2 that get's installed does not work.

(2) All heavily branded Linux distros are no respecter's of open source.

(3) Further more if you decide to download all the open source from their respective web
sites they will not work on these Linux distros.

(4) It took me 10 days sometimes 18 hours per day to test something like 50 Linux Distros
against (a) A person running Windows XP with GPG4Win installed (they had their fair share of
problems too) (b) a person running Mandriva with gpg2 install with "no probs."

I trust that matters are clear

David

- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 5/25/12 1:47 PM, david@gbenet.com wrote:
> For example opensuse - all versions tested:
>
> (1) When you open the address book in TB select an address right
> mouse click you get an option to create a per-recipient rule for
> that person. (Openpgp/inigmail is installed for you to do this).
> With gpg2 installed this option flickers jumps and fades out.

I have an OpenSUSE 12.1 system here on my desktop. I cannot recreate
this.

> (2) With gpg1 - it is clear - no jumping -no fading no fuzziness -
> you get other options - such a delete - which are not available
> when just pgp2 is installed. This same flickering and fuzzing
> occurs with Fedora-16 all GUIs 32/64 bit and you only have one menu
> option which is to create a rule - though it flickers on and off
> one does not know one's created a rule till you go an check it
> within the options of openpgp.

I have a Fedora 16 server in the closet. I cannot recreate this.

> (4) But - and this is the big big big but - you can not digitally
> sign whilst encrypting - and worse when the person gets that
> e-mail they say "Why did you send me an e-mail that I can not
> open." These are real person to person facts with gpg2 installed on
> all the Linux distros I tested.

I cannot recreate this on either my Ubuntu 12.04LTS laptop, my OpenSUSE
desktop, or my Fedora 16 server.

> (5) Now I say that gpg2 does not work with the Linux distros I
> tested. Not all Linux distros are the same they convert open
> source to proprietary branded Linux.

Them's fightin' words, "convert[ing] open source to proprietary."

> This is why I said and listed those Linux distros that gpg2 does
> not work with. Now I suggested that perhaps enigmail/openpgp was at
> fault - and got told to bugger off cos it was a gpg2 problem.

No one told you to do this. Instead, you were told that if you were so
certain this was a GnuPG 2 problem that you should take it to
GnuPG-Users. People also volunteered to help you discover the root of
your problem with GnuPG 2, but you did not take them up on it.

> Now some people's reaction was not helpful - reading in that I was
> angry without reading the contents of my e-mail - these are ...

We try to keep this mailing list free of vulgarity. I understand you're
frustrated and find these people (e.g., me) to be vexing, but many of us
would appreciate it if you would avoid vulgar language.

> (1) Because "Oh it works on my system so it must work on other
> people's."

As opposed to, "because it doesn't work on my system it must not work,
period"?

> (2) "Bugger off we are not interested in how many Linux distros
> you tested it's not got anything to do with us."

Which is, you know, *true*. If you're certain the problem is with GnuPG
2, then complaining about it on the Enigmail list isn't going to be very
productive. The GnuPG developers are on this list, not that one.

> (1) Some heavily branded Linux distros do re-write all the open
> source code to lock users in and deprive them of some functionality
> - Seahorse is a case in point

This does not seem to be true. Which distros are forbidding you from
getting the source code for Seahorse? If they are doing this then they
are violating the copyright license of the Seahorse code, and I'm
certain the Seahorse developers would take great umbrage at that.

> (2) Even when installing the open source for TB and Enigmail gpg2
> does not work on Linux distros (I tested)

It does not work *for you*.

> (3) Some Linux distros (the one's I tested) do not support gpg2

It does not work *for you*.

> There is one commonality which stands out and that is gpg2.

The other commonality is you. It's quite possible you're doing
something wrong. And to repeat, we would be happy to try and help, but
so far your attitude towards help seems to have been one of angry
defiance.

> (1) Do not Install any version of opensuse any version of Ubuntu
> any version of Fedora-16 and any version of Linux Mint. Why? The
> gpg2 that get's installed does not work.

My experience, and that of tens of thousands of other Fedora 16, Ubuntu
and Linux Mint users, is different.

> (2) All heavily branded Linux distros are no respecter's of open
> source.

I need to see specific instances of their violating the copyright
license attached to the code, please.
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=BaRJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 08:07:54PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:
> Openpgp/enigmail does not support gpg2 unless one has installed gpg
> 1.4.11 - but I no longer trust Openpgp/enigmail to do anything.

That's unfortunate. While I'm mostly a Mutt user these days, I have Debian
Icedove installed with Enigmal and GnuPG v2, and I personally haven't had
any problems. Then again, I have both v1 and v2 installed. In fact, I
highly recommend Enigmail. It's a fine piece of software.

--
. o . o . o . . o o . . . o .
. . o . o o o . o . o o . . o
o o o . o . . o o o o . o o o

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/05/12 21:47, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> On 5/25/12 1:47 PM, david@gbenet.com wrote:
>> For example opensuse - all versions tested:
>
>> (1) When you open the address book in TB select an address right
>> mouse click you get an option to create a per-recipient rule for
>> that person. (Openpgp/inigmail is installed for you to do this).
>> With gpg2 installed this option flickers jumps and fades out.
>
> I have an OpenSUSE 12.1 system here on my desktop. I cannot recreate
> this.
>
>> (2) With gpg1 - it is clear - no jumping -no fading no fuzziness -
>> you get other options - such a delete - which are not available
>> when just pgp2 is installed. This same flickering and fuzzing
>> occurs with Fedora-16 all GUIs 32/64 bit and you only have one menu
>> option which is to create a rule - though it flickers on and off
>> one does not know one's created a rule till you go an check it
>> within the options of openpgp.
>
> I have a Fedora 16 server in the closet. I cannot recreate this.
>
>> (4) But - and this is the big big big but - you can not digitally
>> sign whilst encrypting - and worse when the person gets that
>> e-mail they say "Why did you send me an e-mail that I can not
>> open." These are real person to person facts with gpg2 installed on
>> all the Linux distros I tested.
>
> I cannot recreate this on either my Ubuntu 12.04LTS laptop, my OpenSUSE
> desktop, or my Fedora 16 server.
>
>> (5) Now I say that gpg2 does not work with the Linux distros I
>> tested. Not all Linux distros are the same they convert open
>> source to proprietary branded Linux.
>
> Them's fightin' words, "convert[ing] open source to proprietary."
>
>> This is why I said and listed those Linux distros that gpg2 does
>> not work with. Now I suggested that perhaps enigmail/openpgp was at
>> fault - and got told to bugger off cos it was a gpg2 problem.
>
> No one told you to do this. Instead, you were told that if you were so
> certain this was a GnuPG 2 problem that you should take it to
> GnuPG-Users. People also volunteered to help you discover the root of
> your problem with GnuPG 2, but you did not take them up on it.
>
>> Now some people's reaction was not helpful - reading in that I was
>> angry without reading the contents of my e-mail - these are ...
>
> We try to keep this mailing list free of vulgarity. I understand you're
> frustrated and find these people (e.g., me) to be vexing, but many of us
> would appreciate it if you would avoid vulgar language.
>
>> (1) Because "Oh it works on my system so it must work on other
>> people's."
>
> As opposed to, "because it doesn't work on my system it must not work,
> period"?
>
>> (2) "Bugger off we are not interested in how many Linux distros
>> you tested it's not got anything to do with us."
>
> Which is, you know, *true*. If you're certain the problem is with GnuPG
> 2, then complaining about it on the Enigmail list isn't going to be very
> productive. The GnuPG developers are on this list, not that one.
>
>> (1) Some heavily branded Linux distros do re-write all the open
>> source code to lock users in and deprive them of some functionality
>> - Seahorse is a case in point
>
> This does not seem to be true. Which distros are forbidding you from
> getting the source code for Seahorse? If they are doing this then they
> are violating the copyright license of the Seahorse code, and I'm
> certain the Seahorse developers would take great umbrage at that.
>
>> (2) Even when installing the open source for TB and Enigmail gpg2
>> does not work on Linux distros (I tested)
>
> It does not work *for you*.
>
>> (3) Some Linux distros (the one's I tested) do not support gpg2
>
> It does not work *for you*.
>
>> There is one commonality which stands out and that is gpg2.
>
> The other commonality is you. It's quite possible you're doing
> something wrong. And to repeat, we would be happy to try and help, but
> so far your attitude towards help seems to have been one of angry
> defiance.
>
>> (1) Do not Install any version of opensuse any version of Ubuntu
>> any version of Fedora-16 and any version of Linux Mint. Why? The
>> gpg2 that get's installed does not work.
>
> My experience, and that of tens of thousands of other Fedora 16, Ubuntu
> and Linux Mint users, is different.
>
>> (2) All heavily branded Linux distros are no respecter's of open
>> source.
>
> I need to see specific instances of their violating the copyright
> license attached to the code, please.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>
Let me reiterate "I am not angry." Which means in common English let me explain again to you
I am not angry.

I gave you an example which was Seahorse - clearly you failed to read.

I have set out quite clearly the issues found on Linux distros - you are unable to provide a
solution to any. I am neither angry or disappointed. I state observations quite clearly -
the recorded facts - and you are at a loss.

As previously stated I now run Linux Mint/Ubuntu LXDE 32 bit with gnupg 1.4.11 I am quite
happy with this set up. It works. I am considering installing Mandriva 64 bit with LXDE
which from tests shows it to be stable with gpg2. My tardiness (slowness) in making such a
move is I am a little tired of installing Linux distros.

David



- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/05/12 23:01, Aaron Toponce wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 08:07:54PM +0100, david@gbenet.com wrote:
>> Openpgp/enigmail does not support gpg2 unless one has installed gpg
>> 1.4.11 - but I no longer trust Openpgp/enigmail to do anything.
>
> That's unfortunate. While I'm mostly a Mutt user these days, I have Debian
> Icedove installed with Enigmal and GnuPG v2, and I personally haven't had
> any problems. Then again, I have both v1 and v2 installed. In fact, I
> highly recommend Enigmail. It's a fine piece of software.
>
Aron,

As stated when you have gpg 1.4.11 and gpg2 installed you do not experience any problems on
the Linux distros that I tested. It is only when you have gpg2 on the Linux distros that I
tested do you have problems. But some Linux distros are ok with gpg2 and nothing else whilst
others that I tested have problems.

David


- --
“See the sanity of the man! No gods, no angels, no demons, no body. Nothing of the
kind.Stern, sane,every brain-cell perfect and complete even at the moment of death. No
delusion.” https://linuxcounter.net/user/512854.html - http://gbenet.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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On 05/25/2012 06:43 PM, david@gbenet.com wrote:
> I gave you an example which was Seahorse - clearly you failed to
> read.

You did not specify which distro was refusing to give the source for
Seahorse. I've found it in the repositories for Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora.

> I have set out quite clearly the issues found on Linux distros - you
> are unable to provide a solution to any.

This is because your problem is not reproducible. If you are able to
list exactly the steps you took which resulted in this problem, I would
be happy to recreate the problem and find a solution.

> I state observations quite clearly - the recorded facts - and you are
> at a loss.

It seems strange that you seem to want to count coup on people who want
to help you and are volunteering their time and expertise.