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Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch?
This strikes me as a rather good idea, but I don't really know that much
about cirrussearch in the first place. Anyone know, or have any thoughts
on this?


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch?
Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 14:12:18 +0000
From: Daniel Barrett <danb@cimpress.com>
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<mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list
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CirrusSearch has so many wonderful keywords for advanced searching: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:CirrusSearch.

Has anybody created an "advanced" search form (a special page) that uses these wonderful options under the hood, to help less sophisticated users? That would make a great addition to MediaWiki. For example:

Enter your search terms:
Limit to category:
Limit to namespace: (dropdown)
Search page titles only (yes/no):
Approximate matching (on/off):
Search within wikitext source (on/off):
etc...

I looked on mediawiki.org but didn't see anything.

Thanks,
DanB

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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
I once tried doing something like that in js. But for the use case I
was trying to do, it was very limited by a bug in Cirrus where you
can't OR operators with incategory:.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?withJS=MediaWiki:Gadget-advanced-search.js

See also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T23988

--
-bawolff
On 10/5/15, Isarra Yos <zhorishna@gmail.com> wrote:
> This strikes me as a rather good idea, but I don't really know that much
> about cirrussearch in the first place. Anyone know, or have any thoughts
> on this?
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch?
> Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 14:12:18 +0000
> From: Daniel Barrett <danb@cimpress.com>
> Reply-To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list
> <mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> To: MediaWiki announcements and site admin list
> <mediawiki-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>
>
>
> CirrusSearch has so many wonderful keywords for advanced searching:
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:CirrusSearch.
>
> Has anybody created an "advanced" search form (a special page) that uses
> these wonderful options under the hood, to help less sophisticated users?
> That would make a great addition to MediaWiki. For example:
>
> Enter your search terms:
> Limit to category:
> Limit to namespace: (dropdown)
> Search page titles only (yes/no):
> Approximate matching (on/off):
> Search within wikitext source (on/off):
> etc...
>
> I looked on mediawiki.org but didn't see anything.
>
> Thanks,
> DanB
>
> _______________________________________________
> MediaWiki-l mailing list
> To unsubscribe, go to:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-l
>
>
>
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
Brian Wolff wrote:
>See also https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T23988

This is a rare case where I think we could potentially take a lesson from
Gerrit's user interface: <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T103637>.

It also seems worthwhile to note that "Special:Search" already has an
advanced profile/tab where users can select arbitrary namespaces to search.

MZMcBride



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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
MZMcBride writes:
>It also seems worthwhile to note that "Special:Search" already has an
>advanced profile/tab where users can select arbitrary namespaces to search.

Technically that is true, but I suspect that 95% of the time, 95% of users care only about the main namespace. Filter by category, wildcard searches, title searches, fuzzy searches, etc., are eminently more usable. I'll probably build an advanced search plugin myself if nobody else has done it yet.

DanB
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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
On 06/10/15 17:12, Daniel Barrett wrote:
> MZMcBride writes:
>> It also seems worthwhile to note that "Special:Search" already has an
>> advanced profile/tab where users can select arbitrary namespaces to search.
> Technically that is true, but I suspect that 95% of the time, 95% of users care only about the main namespace. Filter by category, wildcard searches, title searches, fuzzy searches, etc., are eminently more usable. I'll probably build an advanced search plugin myself if nobody else has done it yet.
>
> DanB

This is an important point. Namespace searching by itself really feels
like a much more ham-fisted approach to a lot of this, for when lacking
anything more elegant to narrow things down (not that it's not useful
too). But we do have elegant now, and yet nobody sees it.

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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
I've thought several times before that CirrusSearch has plenty of advanced
syntax, and almost no-one knows about they exist. We added a help link to
Special:Search but this help link is per wiki, and I don't think any of the
wikis Help:Searching pages even includes the cirrus syntax. On enwiki at
least mw:Help:CirrusSearch is linked (at the very very bottom) which might
allow a perseverant wikipedian to find them, much more could be done
though.

This would be interesting to work on, but I don't expect Discovery will
find time to investigate this for Q2. For the current quarter Discovery is
focusing its efforts towards fixing the search results you get with a plain
query that contains no special syntax. The search results are just not
nearly as relevant as they can be.

I'm certain I could find time to review anything put together for this
though. Off the top of my head I would probably start by adjusting how the
autocompleter works, having it know the various prefixes available and
include them in the autocomplete drop down. Thats just a random idea from
me though, it seems there are plenty of other ideas to go around. If anyone
from the community plans to work on this just add me to the related gerrit
patch or phabricator ticket and I'll try and help you move it along.

On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Isarra Yos <zhorishna@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 06/10/15 17:12, Daniel Barrett wrote:
>
>> MZMcBride writes:
>>
>>> It also seems worthwhile to note that "Special:Search" already has an
>>> advanced profile/tab where users can select arbitrary namespaces to
>>> search.
>>>
>> Technically that is true, but I suspect that 95% of the time, 95% of
>> users care only about the main namespace. Filter by category, wildcard
>> searches, title searches, fuzzy searches, etc., are eminently more usable.
>> I'll probably build an advanced search plugin myself if nobody else has
>> done it yet.
>>
>> DanB
>>
>
> This is an important point. Namespace searching by itself really feels
> like a much more ham-fisted approach to a lot of this, for when lacking
> anything more elegant to narrow things down (not that it's not useful too).
> But we do have elegant now, and yet nobody sees it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
With my Search team hat on, I really love this idea. It'd be great to
pair it with a simplification of the 'usual' search interface - I
share Isarra's feelings on namespace search being pretty ham-fisted,
and as time gets on find the many-element tickboxes that control it a
painful UI element.

On 13 October 2015 at 02:24, Erik Bernhardson
<ebernhardson@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> I've thought several times before that CirrusSearch has plenty of advanced
> syntax, and almost no-one knows about they exist. We added a help link to
> Special:Search but this help link is per wiki, and I don't think any of the
> wikis Help:Searching pages even includes the cirrus syntax. On enwiki at
> least mw:Help:CirrusSearch is linked (at the very very bottom) which might
> allow a perseverant wikipedian to find them, much more could be done
> though.
>
> This would be interesting to work on, but I don't expect Discovery will
> find time to investigate this for Q2. For the current quarter Discovery is
> focusing its efforts towards fixing the search results you get with a plain
> query that contains no special syntax. The search results are just not
> nearly as relevant as they can be.
>
> I'm certain I could find time to review anything put together for this
> though. Off the top of my head I would probably start by adjusting how the
> autocompleter works, having it know the various prefixes available and
> include them in the autocomplete drop down. Thats just a random idea from
> me though, it seems there are plenty of other ideas to go around. If anyone
> from the community plans to work on this just add me to the related gerrit
> patch or phabricator ticket and I'll try and help you move it along.
>
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 7:53 PM, Isarra Yos <zhorishna@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06/10/15 17:12, Daniel Barrett wrote:
>>
>>> MZMcBride writes:
>>>
>>>> It also seems worthwhile to note that "Special:Search" already has an
>>>> advanced profile/tab where users can select arbitrary namespaces to
>>>> search.
>>>>
>>> Technically that is true, but I suspect that 95% of the time, 95% of
>>> users care only about the main namespace. Filter by category, wildcard
>>> searches, title searches, fuzzy searches, etc., are eminently more usable.
>>> I'll probably build an advanced search plugin myself if nobody else has
>>> done it yet.
>>>
>>> DanB
>>>
>>
>> This is an important point. Namespace searching by itself really feels
>> like a much more ham-fisted approach to a lot of this, for when lacking
>> anything more elegant to narrow things down (not that it's not useful too).
>> But we do have elegant now, and yet nobody sees it.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Count Logula
Wikimedia Foundation

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Re: Fwd: [MediaWiki-l] An "advanced search" page for CirrusSearch? [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 11:24 PM, Erik Bernhardson <
ebernhardson@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> We added a help link to Special:Search
> <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l>
>

Cool! It's blank on mediawiki.org , it seems just an admin decision to add
MediaWiki:search-summary on mw.org that links to
[[Special:MyLanguage/Help:CirrusSearch]]

I filed https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T115429 for Special:Search to use
the standard addHelpLink() indicator for this help.

It seems a search expression builder would be hard unless it really knows
the exact syntax and escaping rules that the Cirrus back-end supports, but
a helper that inserts the prefixes could work.

--
=S Page WMF Tech writer
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