Mailing List Archive

Maps
Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
using Phabricator for planning,
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
the outline of things to be done.

Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
merciless critique! :D

--
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Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
One foundation to rule them all? :P

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
> Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
> starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
> researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
> be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
> estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
> though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
> Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
> using Phabricator for planning,
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
> the outline of things to be done.
>
> Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
> your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
> merciless critique! :D
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Looks like just a collaboration :-)

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

Obviously we should be doing our own tile rendering and serving, for example.


On 18 March 2015 at 09:09, Petr Bena <benapetr@gmail.com> wrote:
> One foundation to rule them all? :P
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 10:06 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
>> Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
>> starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
>> researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
>> be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
>> estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
>> though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
>> Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
>> using Phabricator for planning,
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
>> the outline of things to be done.
>>
>> Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
>> your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
>> merciless critique! :D
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Glad to hear of this idea. We've discussed potential collaborations with
OSM in Cascadia Wikimedians meetings.

Pine
On Mar 18, 2015 2:08 AM, "Max Semenik" <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
> Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
> starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
> researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
> be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
> estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
> though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
> Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
> using Phabricator for planning,
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
> the outline of things to be done.
>
> Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
> your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
> merciless critique! :D
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
> Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
> starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
> researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
> be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
> estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
> though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
> Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
> using Phabricator for planning,
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
> the outline of things to be done.
>
> Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
> your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
> merciless critique! :D
>

Commons also needs a tileserver, for zooming of huge images such as
high-resolution artwork scans. I wonder if there is some overlap.
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Very nice to hear. I am, of course, especially excited about the
multilingual maps part.

Just in case you haven't seen this:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikidata-l/2015-March/005572.html

(And the replies to it.)


--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

2015-03-18 11:06 GMT+02:00 Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com>:

> Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me and
> Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
> starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
> researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
> be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
> estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
> though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end of
> Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
> using Phabricator for planning,
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
> the outline of things to be done.
>
> Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
> your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
> merciless critique! :D
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
While the technology is somewhat similar, I don't think it makes sense to
jam this into the mod_tile/renderd stack we'll most likely use, a separate
service would seem like less PITA in this case.

On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Gergo Tisza <gtisza@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 2:06 AM, Max Semenik <maxsem.wiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, just a quick note: as part of general search and discovery work, me
> and
> > Yuri are resurrecting the project to have OpenStreetMap in Wikimedia
> > starting in April. Because the initial part of this work will include
> > researching options which will influence precise goals and this is yet to
> > be done, we still can't commit to a precise timeline, but as a ballpark
> > estimate I personally want to aim for serving PNG tiles at a reasonable,
> > though not necessarily "dynamic maps on every WP page" scale by the end
> of
> > Q4. Vector/multilingual maps would be the next stage. We will be mostly
> > using Phabricator for planning,
> > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/openstreetmap/ is my first pass on
> > the outline of things to be done.
> >
> > Your comments and suggestions would be highly appreciated, please share
> > your thoughts, ideas of projects that might use these maps, or just
> > merciless critique! :D
> >
>
> Commons also needs a tileserver, for zooming of huge images such as
> high-resolution artwork scans. I wonder if there is some overlap.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



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Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
David Gerard wrote:
>Looks like just a collaboration :-)
>
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
>https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia
>
>Obviously we should be doing our own tile rendering and serving, for
>example.

Thanks for these links.

I believe OpenStreetMap previously had a relationship with Wikimedia
Germany and the Toolserver(?). I'm not sure if that endeavor is related to
this one. And I'm not sure what the scopes of these projects are.

It looks like this new project would be the Wikimedia Foundation acting as
both the (tile)server and the client, using data from OpenStreetMap. Is
that correct? If so, will the tileserver be considered a public service
for use outside of Wikimedia wikis? And will this service be hosted on
Wikimedia Labs?

Expanding the mediawiki.org and Meta-Wiki pages to include more
information about the history here would be great.

MZMcBride



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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:01 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:

> I believe OpenStreetMap previously had a relationship with Wikimedia
> Germany and the Toolserver(?). I'm not sure if that endeavor is related to
> this one. And I'm not sure what the scopes of these projects are.
>

Toolserver's gone, right?


> It looks like this new project would be the Wikimedia Foundation acting as
> both the (tile)server and the client, using data from OpenStreetMap. Is
> that correct?


Yes.


> If so, will the tileserver be considered a public service
> for use outside of Wikimedia wikis?


TBD.


> And will this service be hosted on
> Wikimedia Labs?
>

No, on real hardware.


> Expanding the mediawiki.org and Meta-Wiki pages to include more
> information about the history here would be great.
>

Hey, we're still working on fulfilling our previous commitments. Everything
will come, just not instantaneously;)

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Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Hoi

What is meant by "real hardware" ?
Can we have some at Labs please?
Thanks,
GerardM


> > And will this service be hosted on
> > Wikimedia Labs?
> >
>
> No, on real hardware.
>
>
>
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Heh, I'm not sure if I should laugh or groan. IIRC, Erik, Yuvi and others
are prioritizing Labs reliability improvements for the next FY. I hope so.

Pine
On Mar 18, 2015 11:03 PM, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hoi
>
> What is meant by "real hardware" ?
> Can we have some at Labs please?
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
>
> > > And will this service be hosted on
> > > Wikimedia Labs?
> > >
> >
> > No, on real hardware.
> >
> >
> >
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
On Mar 19, 2015 2:03 AM, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
wrote:
> What is meant by "real hardware" ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_metal_%28computer%29

> Can we have some at Labs please?

Labs nodes provisioned for and by labs users are virtual machines.

Labs has dedicated bare metal just for labs but it is not directly exposed
to labs users.

We could theoretically copy the approach at
http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/servers/onmetal but that probably would not
be a very good allocation of resources. (both capital and human) Labs is
well suited for virtualization. (nova and the other OSM, OpenstackManager
are not perfect. We can and do fix them and if needed can explore other
options. but bare metal is unnecessary for all labs workloads I'm aware of)

-Jeremy
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Re: Maps [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
Yes, and that why the Labs hardware should not be talked down. It is or it
is not and truth apparently is in the eye of the one who sees it in its way.
Thanks,
GerardM

On 19 March 2015 at 07:15, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Heh, I'm not sure if I should laugh or groan. IIRC, Erik, Yuvi and others
> are prioritizing Labs reliability improvements for the next FY. I hope so.
>
> Pine
> On Mar 18, 2015 11:03 PM, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi
> >
> > What is meant by "real hardware" ?
> > Can we have some at Labs please?
> > Thanks,
> > GerardM
> >
> >
> > > > And will this service be hosted on
> > > > Wikimedia Labs?
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, on real hardware.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> _______________________________________________
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>
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