Mailing List Archive

Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you
Lets all welcome the new overlord Erik.

Add a new protection level called "superprotect"
Assigned to nobody by default. Requested by Erik Möller for the purposes
of protecting pages such that sysop permissions are not sufficient to


edit them.
Change-Id: Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e
<https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e,n,z>

https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153302/



Someone clearly can't take criticism of their projects well.
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Hi folks,

Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
intent to remove this capability.

However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
down.

Thanks,
Erik
--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 10 Aug 2014, at 23:19, K. Peachey wrote:
> Lets all welcome the new overlord Erik.
>
> Add a new protection level called "superprotect"
> Assigned to nobody by default. Requested by Erik Möller for the purposes
> of protecting pages such that sysop permissions are not sufficient to
> edit them.
> Change-Id: Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e
> <https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e,n,z>
>
> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153302/

This change solves a problem that does not exist.
We either trust sysops, or we don't.

Erik Moeller wrote:
> In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these
> changes as with any other deployed code

I hope such things will not need to go through the WMF. Or is that what you'd like?

svetlana.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Le 10 août 2014 15:35, "svetlana" <svetlana@fastmail.com.au> a écrit :
>
> On Sun, 10 Aug 2014, at 23:19, K. Peachey wrote:
> > Lets all welcome the new overlord Erik.
> >
> > Add a new protection level called "superprotect"
> > Assigned to nobody by default. Requested by Erik Möller for the purposes
> > of protecting pages such that sysop permissions are not sufficient to
> > edit them.
> > Change-Id: Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e
> > <
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#q,Idfa211257dbacc7623d42393257de1525ff01e9e,n,z
>
> >
> > https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153302/
>
> This change solves a problem that does not exist.
> We either trust sysops, or we don't.
>
> Erik Moeller wrote:
> > In the long run, we will want to
> > apply a code review process to these
> > changes as with any other deployed code
>
> I hope such things will not need to go through the WMF. Or is that what
you'd like?

I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will use
this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community decision
against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.

Nico
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
On 10 aug. 2014, at 14:27, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.

I agree that the current situation is basically something that grew historically that is no longer sustainable. For a long time this was not really a problem and good faith made it work regardless of how broken it was, but when it is used for manipulation, then action is required.

This is not a new thing, but perhaps a clarification that was long over due (and one we perhaps we shied away from too long). We need to collaborate to iterate and improve the software for our movement. I'm the first to support the fact that we have not been able to do that in the past for many reasons. We are now becoming more capable, but we will also still be making a lot of mistakes from various roles, while building the actual feedback loop required to perfect this process. BUT that is a separate issue and there are different venues for that, which are not Common.js -like methodologies.

DJ ,
Volunteer developer
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Wiadomo¶æ napisana przez Nicolas Vervelle <nvervelle@gmail.com> w dniu 10 sie 2014, o godz. 15:45:

> I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
> community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will use
> this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
> everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community decision
> against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.

I'd like to believe that code-reviewing would mean improving code quality, security
and performance (applies to javascript).

Micha³
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Totally agree with that, dirty common.js hacks aren't really beneficial
for anyone.

Cheers,

Marius


On Sun, 2014-08-10 at 14:56 +0100, Derk-Jan Hartman wrote:
> On 10 aug. 2014, at 14:27, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> > MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> > a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> > This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> > situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> > help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> > down.
>
> I agree that the current situation is basically something that grew historically that is no longer sustainable. For a long time this was not really a problem and good faith made it work regardless of how broken it was, but when it is used for manipulation, then action is required.
>
> This is not a new thing, but perhaps a clarification that was long over due (and one we perhaps we shied away from too long). We need to collaborate to iterate and improve the software for our movement. I'm the first to support the fact that we have not been able to do that in the past for many reasons. We are now becoming more capable, but we will also still be making a lot of mistakes from various roles, while building the actual feedback loop required to perfect this process. BUT that is a separate issue and there are different venues for that, which are not Common.js -like methodologies.
>
> DJ ,
> Volunteer developer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Hi Erik,

I understand you reasoning, but you couldn't have communicated and timed
this in a worse way. You might be doing the right thing, but because of
this ill communication and timing, this will be completely overshadowed.
That saddens me. Good luck with the shit storm........ :-(

Maarten

Erik Moeller schreef op 10-8-2014 14:27:
> Hi folks,
>
> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.
>
> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.
>
> Thanks,
> Erik


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Michał Łazowik <mlazowik@me.com> wrote:
> Wiadomość napisana przez Nicolas Vervelle <nvervelle@gmail.com> w dniu 10 sie 2014, o godz. 15:45:
>
>> I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
>> community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will use
>> this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
>> everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community decision
>> against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.
>
> I'd like to believe that code-reviewing would mean improving code quality, security
> and performance (applies to javascript).

It could mean that, but of course it is actually introduced to prevent
the German community from deactivating the Media Viewer.

https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&action=history

I remember when we used to beg for the WMF to deploy extensions.
Now we really need to beg for the WMF to not deploy extensions ...

--
John Vandenberg

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Hi,

> It could mean that, but of course it is actually introduced to prevent
> the German community from deactivating the Media Viewer.

User JEissfeldt, removed `mw.config.set("wgMediaViewerOnClick",
false);` from Common.js [0] and is the same person who sets
`<protect-level-superprotect>`.

I have no idea what the German community wants or doesn't want but
using `protect-level-superprotect` to block potential edits is rather
questionable.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=prev&oldid=132946422

Cheers

On 8/10/14, John Mark Vandenberg <jayvdb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Michał Łazowik <mlazowik@me.com> wrote:
>> Wiadomość napisana przez Nicolas Vervelle <nvervelle@gmail.com> w dniu 10
>> sie 2014, o godz. 15:45:
>>
>>> I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
>>> community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will
>>> use
>>> this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
>>> everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community decision
>>> against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.
>>
>> I'd like to believe that code-reviewing would mean improving code quality,
>> security
>> and performance (applies to javascript).
>
> It could mean that, but of course it is actually introduced to prevent
> the German community from deactivating the Media Viewer.
>
> https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&action=history
>
> I remember when we used to beg for the WMF to deploy extensions.
> Now we really need to beg for the WMF to not deploy extensions ...
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Le 10 août 2014 17:06, "James HK" <jamesin.hongkong.1@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
> Hi,
>
> > It could mean that, but of course it is actually introduced to prevent
> > the German community from deactivating the Media Viewer.
>
> User JEissfeldt, removed `mw.config.set("wgMediaViewerOnClick",
> false);` from Common.js [0] and is the same person who sets
> `<protect-level-superprotect>`.
>
> I have no idea what the German community wants or doesn't want but
> using `protect-level-superprotect` to block potential edits is rather
> questionable.
>
> [0]
https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=prev&oldid=132946422
>

Thanks for the diff... That shows what this super protect power is really
for: WMF forcing something against community wishes/discussion. My fear
wasn't unfounded. Clearly a huge step backwards for the wiki philosophy
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Il 10/08/2014 15:27, Erik Moeller ha scritto:
> Hi folks,
>
> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.
>
> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.
>
> Thanks,
> Erik
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&dir=prev&offset=20140810134614&limit=1&type=gblrights

WMF vs. community?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotection

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Il 10/08/2014 19:33, Ricordisamoa ha scritto:
> Il 10/08/2014 15:27, Erik Moeller ha scritto:
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
>> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
>> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
>> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
>> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
>> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
>> intent to remove this capability.
>>
>> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
>> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
>> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
>> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
>> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
>> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
>> down.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Erik
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&dir=prev&offset=20140810134614&limit=1&type=gblrights
>
>
> WMF vs. community?
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotection
Updated link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Superprotect_rights

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
On 10-08-2014 15:35, svetlana wrote:
>
> This change solves a problem that does not exist.
> We either trust sysops, or we don't.

I concur. There are enough admins available to revert bad code
additions. Also, this measure is completely without effect.

*Suppose* I were a rogue admin wanting to add some bad code to common.js
that disables some WMF feature; I will be reverted by staff and
common.js is superprotected.

Oh well, I'll just create a hidden default gadget... Happy hunting!

Regards,
--
Erwin Dokter


_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
This seems like an unfortunate escalation on the WMF's part. Both sides
have a responsibility to try to work together, but as a practical matter,
the community does not answer to a single person, and the WMF staff do:
it's likely that the first olive branch is going to need to come from the
WMF side.
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Erwin Dokter wrote:
>On 10-08-2014 15:35, svetlana wrote:
>> This change solves a problem that does not exist.
>> We either trust sysops, or we don't.
>
>I concur. There are enough admins available to revert bad code
>additions. Also, this measure is completely without effect.
>
>*Suppose* I were a rogue admin wanting to add some bad code to common.js
>that disables some WMF feature; I will be reverted by staff and
>common.js is superprotected.
>
>Oh well, I'll just create a hidden default gadget... Happy hunting!

Page protection doesn't persist if you delete and restore the page, as a
German Wikipedia admin has now pointed out with "MediaWiki:Common.js".

I agree with svetlana as well: the security of the entire MediaWiki
infrastructure, which in turn is the security of a large portion of
Wikimedia wikis, relies on the idea that local administrators can be
trusted. Erik has now personally re-super-protected "MediaWiki:Common.js"
and he continues to stoke the fires of war with the German Wikipedia.

MZMcBride



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
<hopeless>I'd really like to hear Jimbo's opinion on the matter</hopeless>

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Superprotect is a feature, the way it will be used must be determined by
consensus, on a theoretical basis there are different possible good uses.
But, anyway, anyone using this feature should be accountable to the
community, like anyone holding any advanced rights.

Vito

Inviato con AquaMail per Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


Il 10 agosto 2014 20:01:19 Erwin Dokter <erwin@darcoury.nl> ha scritto:

> On 10-08-2014 15:35, svetlana wrote:
> >
> > This change solves a problem that does not exist.
> > We either trust sysops, or we don't.
>
> I concur. There are enough admins available to revert bad code
> additions. Also, this measure is completely without effect.
>
> *Suppose* I were a rogue admin wanting to add some bad code to common.js
> that disables some WMF feature; I will be reverted by staff and
> common.js is superprotected.
>
> Oh well, I'll just create a hidden default gadget... Happy hunting!
>
> Regards,
> --
> Erwin Dokter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
> Op 10 aug. 2014 om 20:12 heeft Ricordisamoa <ricordisamoa@openmailbox.org> het volgende geschreven:
>
> <hopeless>I'd really like to hear Jimbo's opinion on the matter</hopeless>

You should really watch Jimmy's speech at the Wikimania closing session. You might be surprised.

Cheers!

--
Siebrand
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Wow this is pretty depressing, although in today's age I cannot say I'm
surprised. Corporations have always been about controlling their consumers,
and it was really only a matter of time before the WMF fell into that as
well. I wonder whether there's any legitimate justification for all of
this, or whether it's just a repeat of the VisualEditor fiasco, aka, "the
WMF knows best" kind of thing.

*-- *
*Tyler Romeo*
Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016
Major in Computer Science


On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <siebrand@kitano.nl>
wrote:

>
> > Op 10 aug. 2014 om 20:12 heeft Ricordisamoa <
> ricordisamoa@openmailbox.org> het volgende geschreven:
> >
> > <hopeless>I'd really like to hear Jimbo's opinion on the
> matter</hopeless>
>
> You should really watch Jimmy's speech at the Wikimania closing session.
> You might be surprised.
>
> Cheers!
>
> --
> Siebrand
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
After VE fiasco I would had expected to see a less full of itself
Wikimedia. I was wrong.

The Roman Empire strength was its ability to make Romans out of other peoples.
The wiki strenght is making editors and develepers out of netizens.
Rome felt before losing its ability.
Is wiki losing its one? Will it survive becoming a weird socialnetwork ran
by a bunch of employee with no actual experience of daily editing?

Vito

Inviato con AquaMail per Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


Il 10 agosto 2014 22:31:55 Tyler Romeo <tylerromeo@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Wow this is pretty depressing, although in today's age I cannot say I'm
> surprised. Corporations have always been about controlling their consumers,
> and it was really only a matter of time before the WMF fell into that as
> well. I wonder whether there's any legitimate justification for all of
> this, or whether it's just a repeat of the VisualEditor fiasco, aka, "the
> WMF knows best" kind of thing.
>
> *-- *
> *Tyler Romeo*
> Stevens Institute of Technology, Class of 2016
> Major in Computer Science
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Siebrand Mazeland <siebrand@kitano.nl>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > > Op 10 aug. 2014 om 20:12 heeft Ricordisamoa <
> > ricordisamoa@openmailbox.org> het volgende geschreven:
> > >
> > > <hopeless>I'd really like to hear Jimbo's opinion on the
> > matter</hopeless>
> >
> > You should really watch Jimmy's speech at the Wikimania closing session.
> > You might be surprised.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > --
> > Siebrand
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Hi,

> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.

I first thought when witnessing the explicit removal of some lines of
code from the German MediaWiki:Common.js [0] followed by the
alteration of permission (meaning the assignment of the newly created
<superprotect> right) to the same page was a coincidence.

Now, having observed that not only user Eloquence (aka Erik Moeller)
himself engaged in the enforcement of <superprotect> right on de.wp
[1] but soon after a workaround was published a change was deployed
[2, 3] as counter measurement to block any possible interference can
no longer be interpret as acting in good faith but rather strikes me
as a form of oppression (or worst as censorship).

> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.

What situation did emerge that such drastic measures were/are necessary?

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&diff=prev&oldid=132946422

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ACommon.js&action=historysubmit&diff=132951396&oldid=132951390

[2] https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153345/ +
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/153351/

[3] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69380

Cheers

On 8/10/14, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Admins are currently given broad leeway to customize the user
> experience for all users, including addition of site-wide JS, CSS,
> etc. These are important capabilities of the wiki that have been used
> for many clearly beneficial purposes. In the long run, we will want to
> apply a code review process to these changes as with any other
> deployed code, but for now the system works as it is and we have no
> intent to remove this capability.
>
> However, we've clarified in a number of venues that use of the
> MediaWiki: namespace to disable site features is unacceptable. If such
> a conflict arises, we're prepared to revoke permissions if required.
> This protection level provides an additional path to manage these
> situations by preventing edits to the relevant pages (we're happy to
> help apply any urgent edits) until a particular situation has calmed
> down.
>
> Thanks,
> Erik
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
2014-08-10 17:00 GMT+03:00 Michał Łazowik <mlazowik@me.com>:
> Wiadomość napisana przez Nicolas Vervelle <nvervelle@gmail.com> w dniu 10 sie 2014, o godz. 15:45:
>
>> I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
>> community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will use
>> this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
>> everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community decision
>> against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.
>
> I'd like to believe that code-reviewing would mean improving code quality, security
> and performance (applies to javascript).

I would like to believe that too. More likely though, without a
serious comittment from the Foundation (which I heard nothing about),
that would mean waiting for months, possibly years for reviews on
small wikis.

Also, code review should be a strictly technical process and should
not be used to overrule the community's decisions.

Strainu

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
Code review should be a strictly technical process surely. However the
community CANNOT decide on everything. The WMF has one codebase for
MediaWiki and it explicitly defines with long lead times the things it is
working on. It does invite the community to be involved in the process.
However, this is where and when the technical future is decided. Several of
the decisions do not have an option for a community to decide they want it
or not when they are confronted with the realised software/future.

You know our projects, you know our licenses. If you, the "community"do not
like what you have, you can fork. At Wikimania forking and leaving the
community was very much discussed. Watch Jimbo's presentation for instance,
he may be aghast that I quote him here but in his state of the Wiki he made
it abundantly clear that it is your option to stay or go.
Thanks,
GerardM


On 11 August 2014 08:55, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2014-08-10 17:00 GMT+03:00 Michał Łazowik <mlazowik@me.com>:
> > Wiadomość napisana przez Nicolas Vervelle <nvervelle@gmail.com> w dniu
> 10 sie 2014, o godz. 15:45:
> >
> >> I hope it's not an other step from WMF to prevent the application of
> >> community decisions when they not agree with it. I fear that they will
> use
> >> this to bypass community decisions. For example like forcing again VE on
> >> everyone on enwki: last year, sysop were able to apply community
> decision
> >> against Erik wishes only because they had access to site wide js or CSS.
> >
> > I'd like to believe that code-reviewing would mean improving code
> quality, security
> > and performance (applies to javascript).
>
> I would like to believe that too. More likely though, without a
> serious comittment from the Foundation (which I heard nothing about),
> that would mean waiting for months, possibly years for reviews on
> small wikis.
>
> Also, code review should be a strictly technical process and should
> not be used to overrule the community's decisions.
>
> Strainu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: Superprotect user right, Comming to a wiki near you [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 11 Aug 2014, at 19:20, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Hoi,
> Code review should be a strictly technical process surely. However the
> community CANNOT decide on everything. The WMF has one codebase for
> MediaWiki and it explicitly defines with long lead times the things it is
> working on. It does invite the community to be involved in the process.

It does not. It first designs a software and implements it, and then /tweaks/ it. Community should be asked what it'd like much, much earlier. Community participation in product design is currently impossible.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

1 2 3  View All