Mailing List Archive

Update on IPv6
Hi all,

June 6, 2012 is IPv6 Day ( http://www.worldipv6day.org/ ). The goal of
this global event is to move more ISPs, equipment manufacturers and
web services to permanent adoption of IPv6.

We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the
Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues
we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and
keep it enabled.

MediaWiki has been used with IPv6 by third party wikis for some time.
Wikimedia uses a set of additional features (GlobalBlocking,
CheckUser, etc.) which weren't fully IPv6-ready until recently. In
addition, we're working to ensure that all of Wikimedia's various
services (mailing lists, blogs, etc.) are IPv6-ready.

== What's the user impact going to be? ==

At least in the June 2-3, 2012 time window, you may see a small number
of edits from IPv6 addresses, which are in the form
"2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334". See [[w:IPv6 address]].

These addresses should behave as any other IP adress would: You can
leave messages on their talk pages; you can track their contributions;
you can block them. CIDR notation is supported for rangeblocks.

An important note about blocking: A single user may have access to a
much larger number of addresses than in the IPv4 model. This means
that range blocks (e.g. address with "/64") have to be applied in more
cases to prevent abuse by more sophisticated users.

In the mid term, user scripts and tools that use simple regular
expressions to match IPv4 addresses will need to be adapted for IPv6
support to behave correctly. We suspect that IPv6 usage is going to be
very low initially, meaning that abuse should be manageable, and we
will assist in the monitoring of the situation.

User:Jasper Deng is maintaining a comprehensive analysis of the long
term implications of the IPv6 migration here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jasper_Deng/IPv6

We've set up a test wiki where you can see IPv6 IP addresses. This
works by assigning you a fake IPv6 address the moment you visit the
wiki, and allows you to see the behavior of various tools with the new
address format:
http://ipv6test.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

The best way to report issues is to register them in Bugzilla and to
ensure that they are marked as blockers for the IPv6 tracking bug:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35540

We'll post updates to wikitech-l and elsewhere as appropriate.

All best,
Erik

--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Hi,

It would be so easier to update the tools if we had ipv6 enabled on
wikimedia labs. Right now the development is complicated since there
is no test site. But I am happy to see that we are getting some
progress in this.

On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> June 6, 2012 is IPv6 Day ( http://www.worldipv6day.org/ ). The goal of
> this global event is to move more ISPs, equipment manufacturers and
> web services to permanent adoption of IPv6.
>
> We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the
> Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues
> we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and
> keep it enabled.
>
> MediaWiki has been used with IPv6 by third party wikis for some time.
> Wikimedia uses a set of additional features (GlobalBlocking,
> CheckUser, etc.) which weren't fully IPv6-ready until recently. In
> addition, we're working to ensure that all of Wikimedia's various
> services (mailing lists, blogs, etc.) are IPv6-ready.
>
> == What's the user impact going to be? ==
>
> At least in the June 2-3, 2012 time window, you may see a small number
> of edits from IPv6 addresses, which are in the form
> "2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334". See [[w:IPv6 address]].
>
> These addresses should behave as any other IP adress would: You can
> leave messages on their talk pages; you can track their contributions;
> you can block them. CIDR notation is supported for rangeblocks.
>
> An important note about blocking: A single user may have access to a
> much larger number of addresses than in the IPv4 model. This means
> that range blocks (e.g. address with "/64") have to be applied in more
> cases to prevent abuse by more sophisticated users.
>
> In the mid term, user scripts and tools that use simple regular
> expressions to match IPv4 addresses will need to be adapted for IPv6
> support to behave correctly. We suspect that IPv6 usage is going to be
> very low initially, meaning that abuse should be manageable, and we
> will assist in the monitoring of the situation.
>
> User:Jasper Deng is maintaining a comprehensive analysis of the long
> term implications of the IPv6 migration here:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jasper_Deng/IPv6
>
> We've set up a test wiki where you can see IPv6 IP addresses. This
> works by assigning you a fake IPv6 address the moment you visit the
> wiki, and allows you to see the behavior of various tools with the new
> address format:
> http://ipv6test.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>
> The best way to report issues is to register them in Bugzilla and to
> ensure that they are marked as blockers for the IPv6 tracking bug:
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35540
>
> We'll post updates to wikitech-l and elsewhere as appropriate.
>
> All best,
> Erik
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Nevermind, I didn't check that the ipv6 was recently enabled there as well

On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 10:08 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It would be so easier to update the tools if we had ipv6 enabled on
> wikimedia labs. Right now the development is complicated since there
> is no test site. But I am happy to see that we are getting some
> progress in this.
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> June 6, 2012 is IPv6 Day ( http://www.worldipv6day.org/ ). The goal of
>> this global event is to move more ISPs, equipment manufacturers and
>> web services to permanent adoption of IPv6.
>>
>> We're planning to do limited production testing of IPv6 during the
>> Berlin Hackathon 2012 (June 2-3). Provided that the number of issues
>> we encounter are manageable, we may fully enable IPv6 on IPv6 day, and
>> keep it enabled.
>>
>> MediaWiki has been used with IPv6 by third party wikis for some time.
>> Wikimedia uses a set of additional features (GlobalBlocking,
>> CheckUser, etc.) which weren't fully IPv6-ready until recently. In
>> addition, we're working to ensure that all of Wikimedia's various
>> services (mailing lists, blogs, etc.) are IPv6-ready.
>>
>> == What's the user impact going to be? ==
>>
>> At least in the June 2-3, 2012 time window, you may see a small number
>> of edits from IPv6 addresses, which are in the form
>> "2001:0db8:85a3:0000:0000:8a2e:0370:7334". See [[w:IPv6 address]].
>>
>> These addresses should behave as any other IP adress would: You can
>> leave messages on their talk pages; you can track their contributions;
>> you can block them. CIDR notation is supported for rangeblocks.
>>
>> An important note about blocking: A single user may have access to a
>> much larger number of addresses than in the IPv4 model. This means
>> that range blocks (e.g. address with "/64") have to be applied in more
>> cases to prevent abuse by more sophisticated users.
>>
>> In the mid term, user scripts and tools that use simple regular
>> expressions to match IPv4 addresses will need to be adapted for IPv6
>> support to behave correctly. We suspect that IPv6 usage is going to be
>> very low initially, meaning that abuse should be manageable, and we
>> will assist in the monitoring of the situation.
>>
>> User:Jasper Deng is maintaining a comprehensive analysis of the long
>> term implications of the IPv6 migration here:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jasper_Deng/IPv6
>>
>> We've set up a test wiki where you can see IPv6 IP addresses. This
>> works by assigning you a fake IPv6 address the moment you visit the
>> wiki, and allows you to see the behavior of various tools with the new
>> address format:
>> http://ipv6test.wmflabs.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>
>> The best way to report issues is to register them in Bugzilla and to
>> ensure that they are marked as blockers for the IPv6 tracking bug:
>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35540
>>
>> We'll post updates to wikitech-l and elsewhere as appropriate.
>>
>> All best,
>> Erik
>>
>> --
>> Erik Möller
>> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Hi folks,

Mark Bergsma just shared the following recap with me, for those who
are interested in the details of what happened at the hackathon and
next steps. tl;dr: If all goes well we'll be ready to launch full
production deployment on Wednesday, starting around 10AM UTC
(MediaWiki engineers will be working closely with the ops team
Wednesday to monitor bugs/issues).

Keep an eye on the server admin log and the puppet repo if you want to
know what's going on in full detail:

http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/Server_admin_log
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/q/status:merged+project:operations/puppet,n,z

Erik

- - -

The last few days we've worked on getting the software ready (mainly
PyBal/LVS) as well as Puppet support for provisioning of IPv6
addresses to servers and configuration changes for IPv6 connectivity.
That's now 90% done. What remains is mostly to actually roll this out
for all services in all data centers, which we will be doing tomorrow.
Besides that, we have a few "would be nice to haves" left to do, such
as having our own 6to4 and miredo relays.

I just got the first LVS service running with IPv6, and am now
browsing upload.wikimedia.org over IPv6 (local /etc/hosts entry of
course, not in DNS yet). ipv6 support for LVS in Ubuntu Precise was
the last major uncertain factor on the infrastructure side; besides a
few quick tests in labs we had not really tested this yet in our
production setup. Fortunately, it appears to be working fine. Tomorrow
the remaining (inactive) LVS balancers will be reinstalled with
Precise and made IPv6-ready to support all other services, while the
currently active IPv4 balancers will keep their current setup for some
time to come - so we won't hit any surprises on IPv4 at least.

But, we haven't done any production tests with MediaWiki yet. We can
do some dark testing and actual edits tomorrow. Assuming we see no
surprises there, we can enable it for the all wikis and the general
public on Wednesday.

To conclude, we're on track on the infrastructure side. It is tight,
though. Assuming the MediaWiki side has no unwelcome surprises for us,
I expect to be able to make it.

--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Erik Moeller wrote:

> If all goes well we'll be ready to launch full
> production deployment on Wednesday, starting around 10AM UTC
> (MediaWiki engineers will be working closely with the ops team
> Wednesday to monitor bugs/issues).

All,

It seem that IPv6 got enabled just yet. At least, this morning I was not
able to browse Wikipedia this morning on a IPv6only network, and it
works like a charm now.

I want to express my gratitude for all engineers who made this happen.
Kudos and compliments to all of you.

It is noted and appreciated. Thanks!

Freek

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Yes, good job guys! Now someone just needs to get Wikipedia.org (etc)
added to http://www.worldipv6launch.org/participants/?q=1 :-)
On the English Wikipedia someone from Indiana University was the first
to do a logged out edit. The first edit (and only) anonymous edit on
Commons was by Team Cymru.

Now that we have ipv6 someone should start making statistics of the
number of logged out edits in a month by ip adresses vs ipv6 address. I
wonder when we'll hit 50-50 :-)

Maarten

Op 6-6-2012 15:59, Freek Dijkstra schreef:
> Erik Moeller wrote:
>
>> If all goes well we'll be ready to launch full
>> production deployment on Wednesday, starting around 10AM UTC
>> (MediaWiki engineers will be working closely with the ops team
>> Wednesday to monitor bugs/issues).
> All,
>
> It seem that IPv6 got enabled just yet. At least, this morning I was not
> able to browse Wikipedia this morning on a IPv6only network, and it
> works like a charm now.
>
> I want to express my gratitude for all engineers who made this happen.
> Kudos and compliments to all of you.
>
> It is noted and appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Freek
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
I am in central europe and there is almost no ipv6 connectivity, more
far on east it's ever worse, so I doubt

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Maarten Dammers <maarten@mdammers.nl> wrote:
> Yes, good job guys! Now someone just needs to get Wikipedia.org (etc) added
> to http://www.worldipv6launch.org/participants/?q=1 :-)
> On the English Wikipedia someone from Indiana University was the first to do
> a logged out edit. The first edit (and only) anonymous edit on Commons was
> by Team Cymru.
>
> Now that we have ipv6 someone should start making statistics of the number
> of logged out edits in a month by ip adresses vs ipv6 address. I wonder when
> we'll hit 50-50 :-)
>
> Maarten
>
> Op 6-6-2012 15:59, Freek Dijkstra schreef:
>
>> Erik Moeller wrote:
>>
>>> If all goes well we'll be ready to launch full
>>> production deployment on Wednesday, starting around 10AM UTC
>>> (MediaWiki engineers will be working closely with the ops team
>>> Wednesday to monitor bugs/issues).
>>
>> All,
>>
>> It seem that IPv6 got enabled just yet. At least, this morning I was not
>> able to browse Wikipedia this morning on a IPv6only network, and it
>> works like a charm now.
>>
>> I want to express my gratitude for all engineers who made this happen.
>> Kudos and compliments to all of you.
>>
>> It is noted and appreciated. Thanks!
>>
>> Freek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
I also join the ranks of people who are happy with IPv6 and thank the
WMF staff and the volunteers who made this possible.

2012/6/6 Petr Bena <benapetr@gmail.com>:
> I am in central europe and there is almost no ipv6 connectivity, more
> far on east it's ever worse, so I doubt

Wrong. :) Come to Romania and you'll have (native) IPv6 from the main
ISP and some universities (although I suspect they use some kind of
tunnel upstream since the NREN does not have IPv6 AFAIK). We've
already had a IPv6 edit on ro.wp, unfortunately it was vandalism :(

Strainu

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 6:59 AM, Freek Dijkstra <software@macfreek.nl> wrote:
> I want to express my gratitude for all engineers who made this happen.
> Kudos and compliments to all of you.

Credit goes to Mark Bergsma, Faidon Liambotis, Ryan Lane, Asher
Feldman, Aaron Schulz, Chris Steipp, and many others for helping make
this happen. Many members of the team worked practically nonstop to
ensure that we can launch on IPv6 Day. Here's a full update from Mark:

[begin quote]
Today, between 10:00 and 11:00 UTC, we've gradually enabled IPv6 for
all wikis. We started with upload, followed by bits, then the main
wikis, and concluded with the mobile cluster.

So far it seems to be working fine. We're seeing some edits being made
over IPv6, and IPv6 traffic is in the low tens of Mbps range. Browsing
the sites over IPv6 seems to just work like it does with v4. I haven't
heard of a single complaint yet. It was very uneventful. :-)

Nonetheless, there will be a very small (fractional) percentage of
clients who no longer can access our sites. Part of the idea of today
- IPv6 Launch Day - is to collectively force these clients and
relevant network issues to get fixed. Faidon has also improved my old
"selective-answer.py" DNS backend, previously used for IPv6 DNS
whitelisting, to allow it to be used as a blacklist. If we find
networks that are unable or unwilling to resolve any IPv6 issues, then
we can selectively disable IPv6 for their IP address prefixes. This is
not in use yet, but can be deployed quickly.
[end quote]

There will surely be new MediaWiki or tool/bot level issues as well,
but hopefully they'll be manageable without a rollback. The best way
to report most issues is through https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ and
by adding the "ipv6" keyword.


--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On 7 June 2012 00:46, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> So far it seems to be working fine. We're seeing some edits being made
> over IPv6, and IPv6 traffic is in the low tens of Mbps range.

At the very least, all pywikipedia bots on the toolserver will edit over
IPv6 - and I think a lot of the non-pywikipedia bots also, unless they
resolve IP addresses manually. Of course, they won't edit anonymously,
so you'll only see it in the access logs.

See also the pywikipedia-l post about it:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/pywikipedia-l/2012-June/007539.html

Best,
Merlijn

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 09:26:25AM +0200, Merlijn van Deen wrote:
> On 7 June 2012 00:46, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > So far it seems to be working fine. We're seeing some edits being made
> > over IPv6, and IPv6 traffic is in the low tens of Mbps range.
>
> At the very least, all pywikipedia bots on the toolserver will edit over
> IPv6 - and I think a lot of the non-pywikipedia bots also, unless they
> resolve IP addresses manually. Of course, they won't edit anonymously,
> so you'll only see it in the access logs.

Speaking of the toolserver, does anyone happen to know which IPv6
addresses belong to it? Just looking in DNS, it seems the named servers
are currently in 2620:0:862:101::2:0/124, with some other toolserver.org
addresses resolving in 2620:0:862:101::1:3/124 and
2620:0:862:101::3:0/124.

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Once figured out, might be a good idea to add them to:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jonathan_de_Boyne_Pollard/Guide_to_blocking_IP_version_6_addresses

DJ

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Brad Jorsch
<b-jorsch@alum.northwestern.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 09:26:25AM +0200, Merlijn van Deen wrote:
>> On 7 June 2012 00:46, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> > So far it seems to be working fine. We're seeing some edits being made
>> > over IPv6, and IPv6 traffic is in the low tens of Mbps range.
>>
>> At the very least, all pywikipedia bots on the toolserver will edit over
>> IPv6 - and I think a lot of the non-pywikipedia bots also, unless they
>> resolve IP addresses manually. Of course, they won't edit anonymously,
>> so you'll only see it in the access logs.
>
> Speaking of the toolserver, does anyone happen to know which IPv6
> addresses belong to it? Just looking in DNS, it seems the named servers
> are currently in 2620:0:862:101::2:0/124, with some other toolserver.org
> addresses resolving in 2620:0:862:101::1:3/124 and
> 2620:0:862:101::3:0/124.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
The first IPv6 edit to English Wikipedia required suppression, I have been
advised, so I think there are some valid concerns about the implications
this change will have on vandalism management.

Does nobody else see the issues associated with having what little guidance
there is about IPv6 locked into pages in user space on a single project,
when this is a global change?

Risker/Anne

On 7 June 2012 13:49, Derk-Jan Hartman <d.j.hartman+wmf_ml@gmail.com> wrote:

> Once figured out, might be a good idea to add them to:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jonathan_de_Boyne_Pollard/Guide_to_blocking_IP_version_6_addresses
>
> DJ
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Brad Jorsch
> <b-jorsch@alum.northwestern.edu> wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 07, 2012 at 09:26:25AM +0200, Merlijn van Deen wrote:
> >> On 7 June 2012 00:46, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >> > So far it seems to be working fine. We're seeing some edits being made
> >> > over IPv6, and IPv6 traffic is in the low tens of Mbps range.
> >>
> >> At the very least, all pywikipedia bots on the toolserver will edit over
> >> IPv6 - and I think a lot of the non-pywikipedia bots also, unless they
> >> resolve IP addresses manually. Of course, they won't edit anonymously,
> >> so you'll only see it in the access logs.
> >
> > Speaking of the toolserver, does anyone happen to know which IPv6
> > addresses belong to it? Just looking in DNS, it seems the named servers
> > are currently in 2620:0:862:101::2:0/124, with some other toolserver.org
> > addresses resolving in 2620:0:862:101::1:3/124 and
> > 2620:0:862:101::3:0/124.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On 07/06/12 16:04, Brad Jorsch wrote:
>> At the very least, all pywikipedia bots on the toolserver will edit over
>> IPv6 - and I think a lot of the non-pywikipedia bots also, unless they
>> resolve IP addresses manually. Of course, they won't edit anonymously,
>> so you'll only see it in the access logs.
>
> Speaking of the toolserver, does anyone happen to know which IPv6
> addresses belong to it? Just looking in DNS, it seems the named servers
> are currently in 2620:0:862:101::2:0/124, with some other toolserver.org
> addresses resolving in 2620:0:862:101::1:3/124 and
> 2620:0:862:101::3:0/124.

A little playing shows:

hemlock 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:0
clematis* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:1
zedler 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:2
nightshade 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:3
willow* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:4
hawthorn* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:5
wolfsbane* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:6
ortelius* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:7
yarrow* 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:8
daphne 2620:0:862:101:0:0:2:9

damiana 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:0 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:1
2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:2 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:3
turnera 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:4 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:5
2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:6 2620:0:862:101:0:0:3:7

thyme 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:0
ptolemy 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:1
hemlock 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:2 [outdated dns entry?]
rosemary 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:3
hyacinth 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:4
cassia 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:5
adenia 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:6
scs-oe10 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:7 (Cisco)
scs-oe16 2620:0:862:301:0:0:2:8

2620:0:862:101::1:0, 2620:0:862:101::1:1, 2620:0:862:101::1:2,
2620:0:862:101::1:3, 2620:0:862:101::1:4
point to www.toolserver.org, ha-dns-auth.toolserver.org,
ha-mail.toolserver.org, ha-www.toolserver.org, ha-lb.toolserver.org
which seem to mean they are handled by the damiana-turnera pair.

You will probably only view toolserver edits from the server marked with
* (plus nightshade when it gets setup again) until the cluster grows.
I have tested for those that the listed ips are indeed those viewed as
source by the wikis.

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
Risker wrote:
> The first IPv6 edit to English Wikipedia required suppression, I have been
> advised, so I think there are some valid concerns about the implications
> this change will have on vandalism management.
>
> Does nobody else see the issues associated with having what little guidance
> there is about IPv6 locked into pages in user space on a single project,
> when this is a global change?

There's already <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IPv6_initiative>. Just move
that user page[1] to a subpage of IPv6 initiative or something? You have an
account at Meta-Wiki, as I recall. :-)

MZMcBride

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jonathan_de_Boyne_Pollard/Guide_to_bloc
king_IP_version_6_addresses



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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
2012/6/7 Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com>:
> The first IPv6 edit to English Wikipedia required suppression, I have been
> advised, so I think there are some valid concerns about the implications
> this change will have on vandalism management.
>
> Does nobody else see the issues associated with having what little guidance
> there is about IPv6 locked into pages in user space on a single project,
> when this is a global change?
>

Risker, I think you're over-reacting here. Yes, there are risks
associated with IPv6. No, they haven't been addressed completely
before IPv6 day (apparently because of the very late moment the
decision to participate was taken). But it hasn't destroyed the
projects so far and chances are, by the time IPv6 vandalism will have
any significant effect, they will be solved (estimates are that 50% of
the Internet users will have IPv6 only in 6 years [1]).

I will compare this with the SOPA blackout (and the equivalent event
on it.wp). Back then, there were people talking about the negative
effects the blackout will have on the credibility of Wikipedia. The
blackout happened and passed without any significant drop in
pageviews, but with huge media and popular attention.

IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users
[2][3], and in one of them there are still troubles with the new
protocol. If there is little content available on IPv6, people will
not even be aware it exists and they will not demand it from their
ISP, which means there will be no users for IPv6 content making it
useless and the loop will continue. Someone had to break this loop and
the content providers were the easiest place this could happen.

It is good to have people aware of the problems ahead, but just crying
wolf does not really help.

Strainu

[1] http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/netsp/ipv6-launch-day.-how-many-people-use-ipv6.html
[2] http://www.google.com/ipv6/statistics.html#tab=per-country-ipv6-adoption
[3] AFAIK, in both Romania and France, the huge percentages are due to
a single ISP providing "experimental" IPv6 connection

(both links come from the Slashdot stopry:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/06/07/1752201/after-launch-day-taking-stock-of-ipv6-adoption
)

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
> IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
> are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users

Correction: 4 :) Bhutan was too small to see on the global map (and
it's actually the leader, at 8.18% IPv6 adoption).

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
>> IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
>> are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users
>
> Correction: 4 :) Bhutan was too small to see on the global map (and
> it's actually the leader, at 8.18% IPv6 adoption).
>

And it can be seen on [1] btw.

[1] http://www.google.com/intl/en_ALL/ipv6/statistics/data/worldmap.js

-Liangent

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On 8 June 2012 04:08, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2012/6/7 Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com>:
> > The first IPv6 edit to English Wikipedia required suppression, I have
> been
> > advised, so I think there are some valid concerns about the implications
> > this change will have on vandalism management.
> >
> > Does nobody else see the issues associated with having what little
> guidance
> > there is about IPv6 locked into pages in user space on a single project,
> > when this is a global change?
> >
>
> Risker, I think you're over-reacting here. Yes, there are risks
> associated with IPv6. No, they haven't been addressed completely
> before IPv6 day (apparently because of the very late moment the
> decision to participate was taken). But it hasn't destroyed the
> projects so far and chances are, by the time IPv6 vandalism will have
> any significant effect, they will be solved (estimates are that 50% of
> the Internet users will have IPv6 only in 6 years [1]).
>
> I will compare this with the SOPA blackout (and the equivalent event
> on it.wp). Back then, there were people talking about the negative
> effects the blackout will have on the credibility of Wikipedia. The
> blackout happened and passed without any significant drop in
> pageviews, but with huge media and popular attention.
>
> IPv6 is now in a stage where it needs that kind of attention. There
> are only 3 countries in the world with more than 1% of IPv6 users
> [2][3], and in one of them there are still troubles with the new
> protocol. If there is little content available on IPv6, people will
> not even be aware it exists and they will not demand it from their
> ISP, which means there will be no users for IPv6 content making it
> useless and the loop will continue. Someone had to break this loop and
> the content providers were the easiest place this could happen.
>
> It is good to have people aware of the problems ahead, but just crying
> wolf does not really help.
>
>
> I have never said that moving to IPv6 is a bad idea. What I am
complaining about is the dismissive attitude taken toward the volunteers
that are stuck cleaning up the mess when Engineering decides to do
something, apparently on the spur of the moment, without telling anyone
outside their own little walled garden. It would have taken one email to
the Checkuser mailing list two months ago saying "We're really serious
about trying to get IPv6 up and running for June 5" and people would have
been pulling together the resources and making the software changes for the
various tools we use. But no, we're told we're being wimps for having the
nerve to complain that we've just been steamrollered, and that advance
notice and the opportunity to plan are unimportant. Bluntly put, you're
not the ones cleaning up the mess, we are; our job is easier if we have
time to order in the extra mops.


Earlier, Erik said: "Regarding privacy, both IPv4 and IPv6 addresses can be
dangerously
revealing in terms of personal identity (e.g. some ISPs even tie
street address information to your IPv4 address). It's always been
fundamentally problematic that MediaWiki reveals this information
nakedly, and it's what enabled past large-scale investigations like
WikiScanner, for good and for ill. In the mid to long term, I believe
we need to investigate moving away from full disclosure of IP
addresses when editing without logging in, but this is independent of
IPv4/IPv6."


Do this now, please. Even I can see how easy it ought to be to replace the
last three digits of an IPv4 address with XXX in publicly viewable lists
and logs....and reduce the publicly visible IPv6 string to its first three
segments. That will suffice until a brighter idea comes to the fore. The
WMF projects are the *only* major user-interactive website that takes this
cavalier attitude toward what the rest of the world is increasingly viewing
as personal information, and about 30% of the suppression requests coming
in at English Wikipedia relate to IP addresses of users who accidentally
edit logged out, or new users who didn't really understand that their IP
would show when they edited.

The issues I point out with the IPv6 transition are social issues. Nobody
expects Engineering to go all touchy-feely. But we do expect to be treated
with respect. Next time, give us a month or two of warning. And please
don't insult people by pretending this was a spur of the moment decision:
the more I read, the more clear it is that for months IPv6 Day was the
target for bringing this online.

Best,

Risker
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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
> I  have never said that moving to IPv6 is a bad idea.  What I am
> complaining about is the dismissive attitude taken toward the  volunteers
> that are stuck cleaning up the mess when Engineering decides to do
> something, apparently on the spur of the moment, without telling anyone
> outside their own little walled garden.   It would have taken one email to
> the Checkuser mailing list two months ago saying "We're really serious
> about trying to get IPv6 up and running for June 5" and people would have
> been pulling together the resources and making the software changes for the
> various tools we use.  But no, we're told we're being wimps for having the
> nerve to complain that we've just been steamrollered, and that advance
> notice and the opportunity to plan are unimportant.  Bluntly put, you're
> not the ones cleaning up the mess, we are; our job is easier if we have
> time to order in the extra mops.
>

Your tone is non-helpful. Maybe you should take a day or two to calm yourself.

We're not being dismissive; this truly was a spur of the moment thing.
We had thoughts we might do this for IPv6 day, just like we did last
year, but higher priority work constantly comes up. At the last minute
we decided to kill this off at the hackathon (which, by the way, last
year's hackathon is when we started this work on the ops side).

That said, it's pretty obvious that IPv6 has been coming for years.
It's been supported in the software for quite some time, and we're
actively running out of IPv4 addresses (I used one of our last
available IPv4 addresses in esams for HTTPS last year). There are a
lot of bugs in bugzilla about it. I don't think it's fair to blame the
engineers for lack of foresight.

- Ryan

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
2012/6/8 Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com>:
> The issues I point out with the IPv6 transition are social issues.  Nobody
> expects Engineering to go all touchy-feely.  But we do expect to be treated
> with respect. Next time, give us a month or two of warning.  And please
> don't insult people by pretending this was a spur of the moment decision:
> the more I read, the more clear it is that for months IPv6 Day was the
> target for bringing this online.

Hi,
First of all, let me clear up any possible misunderstanding: I am not
affiliated with the Engineering team other than being a programmer
myself and having an insight on how cool, but non-core ideas (such as
IPv6 for the WMF) are pushed in such an environment. I also agree that
the WMF has more than once ignored the communities.

But from the same discussions that you read, my impression is that,
while it was clear since 11/6/6 for everybody that the best moment for
deployment was 12/6/6, the actual testing and bugfixing began very
close to the due date. This is why I said the decision was taken in
the last minute. I also don't agree with your implication that there
is much mess to be picked-up after the IPv6 rollup, nor with your
suggested solution - the checkuser distribution list is much too
limited for the implications of this deployment.

Ryan has sent his email while I was composing mine so I might be
repeating some of the stuff he said, but he made a decent
justification of why this was a last-minute decision.

All the best to you too,
Strainu

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On 8 June 2012 11:49, Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:

> I  have never said that moving to IPv6 is a bad idea.  What I am
> complaining about is the dismissive attitude taken toward the  volunteers
> that are stuck cleaning up the mess when Engineering decides to do
> something, apparently on the spur of the moment, without telling anyone
> outside their own little walled garden.


No, at this point you're just being deliberate rude. People have
already noted on this thread that this has been in the works for
years, whether you were listening or not.


- d.

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
I don't think that Risker is wrong, it is true, that ipv6 was enabled
on production almost with no warning and since it wasn't available on
any test site before, neither on wmflabs it was almost impossible for
developers to fix all issues in tools related to this. For example one
of tools that broke was huggle, people are complaining now at us
(huggle devs) that it doesn't work, and my reply is: We knew that, we
know that, but no one gave us a chance to prepare. I have no working
ipv6 wiki I could test it on, neither there is any on wmflabs. So when
it was enabled on production we couldn't be prepared for this. Huggle
is not the only tool which broke, there are many others and devs never
had a chance to adapt to ipv6 without any test wiki to try it on.

On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2012/6/8 Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com>:
>> The issues I point out with the IPv6 transition are social issues.  Nobody
>> expects Engineering to go all touchy-feely.  But we do expect to be treated
>> with respect. Next time, give us a month or two of warning.  And please
>> don't insult people by pretending this was a spur of the moment decision:
>> the more I read, the more clear it is that for months IPv6 Day was the
>> target for bringing this online.
>
> Hi,
> First of all, let me clear up any possible misunderstanding: I am not
> affiliated with the Engineering team other than being a programmer
> myself and having an insight on how cool, but non-core ideas (such as
> IPv6 for the WMF) are pushed in such an environment. I also agree that
> the WMF has more than once ignored the communities.
>
> But from the same discussions that you read, my impression is that,
> while it was clear since 11/6/6 for everybody that the best moment for
> deployment was 12/6/6, the actual testing and bugfixing began very
> close to the due date. This is why I said the decision was taken in
> the last minute. I also don't agree with your implication that there
> is much mess to be picked-up after the IPv6 rollup, nor with your
> suggested solution - the checkuser distribution list is much too
> limited for the implications of this deployment.
>
> Ryan has sent his email while I was composing mine so I might be
> repeating some of the stuff he said, but he made a decent
> justification of why this was a last-minute decision.
>
> All the best to you too,
>  Strainu
>
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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Petr Bena <benapetr@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think that Risker is wrong, it is true, that ipv6 was enabled
> on production almost with no warning and since it wasn't available on
> any test site before, neither on wmflabs it was almost impossible for
> developers to fix all issues in tools related to this. For example one
> of tools that broke was huggle, people are complaining now at us
> (huggle devs) that it doesn't work, and my reply is: We knew that, we
> know that, but no one gave us a chance to prepare. I have no working
> ipv6 wiki I could test it on, neither there is any on wmflabs. So when
> it was enabled on production we couldn't be prepared for this. Huggle
> is not the only tool which broke, there are many others and devs never
> had a chance to adapt to ipv6 without any test wiki to try it on.
>

Not true--I tested (and fixed) several IPv6 bugs years ago. Labs may not
have been setup for IPv6, but as long as your operating system supports
IPv6 there's no reason you can't test it locally.

Without getting too far OT, I'd like to mention that labs does not have
feature parity with the production sites (yet). This is the way it's been for
years, and until we get more things available to labs, we should test our
code the way we've always done it--locally. I don't think it's reasonable to
hold up projects *just because* they haven't been through labs yet.

-Chad

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Re: Update on IPv6 [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 4:08 AM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> Risker, I think you're over-reacting here. Yes, there are risks
> associated with IPv6. No, they haven't been addressed completely
> before IPv6 day (apparently because of the very late moment the
> decision to participate was taken). But it hasn't destroyed the
> projects so far and chances are, by the time IPv6 vandalism will have
> any significant effect, they will be solved (estimates are that 50% of
> the Internet users will have IPv6 only in 6 years [1]).

You seem to be assuming that vandals will switch to IPv6 at the same
rate as non-vandals.

An analogous assumption, which has proven to be false, would be that
vandals would use anonymizing proxies at the same rate as non-vandals.

> If there is little content available on IPv6, people will
> not even be aware it exists and they will not demand it from their
> ISP, which means there will be no users for IPv6 content making it
> useless and the loop will continue. Someone had to break this loop and
> the content providers were the easiest place this could happen.

No one has to break the loop. The loop will break itself. Either
enough people will get sick of NAT to cause demand for IPv6, or they
won't.

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