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Some tag for attribution within the article
Hi,

Before posting a bug for this, I thought I should pop a question to
see if somebody hasn't done this already.

Some of the content partners I'm in contact with are not really happy
about being attributed on the talk page and/or the history of the
article. I was thinking that we could have an extension that could
handle this. The solution I came up with was:
* have some <attribution></attribution> tags in the article; place all
the requirds attribution text between those tags in plain wikitext
* when parsing these tags, don't include the result in the main
article div (mw-body), but rather create a new tab below mw-body,
which will contain the attributions. This new div should be visually
different from the article.

I am aware this solution is prone to vandalism, but it is also a
simple way to include attributions without any additional knowledge
from the editors.

So, my questions are:
1. Has somebody done a similar extension before? If yes, is it stable
enough to deploy on WMF wikis?
2. If not, would somebody on this list be willing to make it? I don't
feel my PHP is strong enough for me to take on this, but I will help
in any way I can.

Thanks,
Strainu

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
How is this any differnt from using E:Cite (aka <ref></ref>) as is?

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
ÃŽn data de 13 aprilie 2012, 11:56, K. Peachey <p858snake@gmail.com> a scris:
> How is this any differnt from using E:Cite (aka <ref></ref>) as is?

<ref></ref> is appropriate for small chunks of text, maybe a
paragraph, but not for whole sections or articles (because the text
can change and the attributions might become mixed up). Also, the way
we've been using <ref> so far implies that the statements in that
paragraph are backed by that source, not that the content is copied
from the source (that's how I see them, anyway).

What would be needed would be some kind of section, like
"Bibliography", but the AFAIK the consensus is not to put this kind of
informations in the body of the article. That's why I was proposing a
visually different place to put the attributions in.

Strainu

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 05:53, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Before posting a bug for this, I thought I should pop a question to
> see if somebody hasn't done this already.
>
> Some of the content partners I'm in contact with are not really happy
> about being attributed on the talk page and/or the history of the
> article.

See also bug 27629 (Collection extension needs some way to credit
original authors of a work[1]) which depends on bug 28064 (Summary of
page editors/authors[2]) and has links to a thread on enwiki's Village
pump[3].

[1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27629
[2] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28064
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_91#Augmenting_article_history

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
ÃŽn data de 13 aprilie 2012, 14:57, Helder <helder.wiki@gmail.com> a scris:
> See also bug 27629 (Collection extension needs some way to credit
> original authors of a work[1]) which depends on bug 28064 (Summary of
> page editors/authors[2]) and has links to a thread on enwiki's Village
> pump[3].

Thanks for this. My understanding from these discussion is that there
is no real willingness to solve this.

Actually, I find bug 27629 to be insufficient, since each author might
ask for a specific way to be quoted (e.g. some disclaimer associated
with the content).

Strainu
>
> [1] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/27629
> [2] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/28064
> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_91#Augmenting_article_history
>
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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
Such extension is very simple to make.
You register a tag extension, and on parse you return something.
However, you store the parsed content in page_props. You could also
store it in ParserOutput, page_props seems cleaner, although it would be
unstructured data, anyway.
What kind of contents would the tags have? An name per line? What if
there should be something besides the name (eg. a url or email)?


Note that you can achieve a similar functionality right now with a
(series of) template which you place at the bottom of the page.


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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
ÃŽn data de 13 aprilie 2012, 21:15, Platonides <Platonides@gmail.com> a scris:
> What kind of contents would the tags have? An name per line? What if
> there should be something besides the name (eg. a url or email)?

I was thinking the tags should contain all the attributions, therefore
having a single instance on a page (much like <references/>)

The text between the tags would be any kind of wikitext (links, images or text).
>
>
> Note that you can achieve a similar functionality right now with a
> (series of) template which you place at the bottom of the page.

There are many existing ways of doing that, but none allows one to
escape the mw-body div. This means that the attributions would seem to
be part of the article, which is exactly what I want to avoid (since
many wikipedians are against it).

Strainu

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 19:09, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> În data de 13 aprilie 2012, 21:15, Platonides <Platonides@gmail.com> a scris:
>> Note that you can achieve a similar functionality right now with a
>> (series of) template which you place at the bottom of the page.
>
> There are many existing ways of doing that, but none allows one to
> escape the mw-body div. This means that the attributions would seem to
> be part of the article, which is exactly what I want to avoid (since
> many wikipedians are against it).

Besides, the current way of crediting external authors in the talk
page doesn't allows the use by e.g. the Collection extension (which
then generate PDFs which violates the licence terms).

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 9:35 AM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, I find bug 27629 to be insufficient, since each author might
> ask for a specific way to be quoted (e.g. some disclaimer associated
> with the content).

It is understandable why they might ask for such a disclaimer, but it
isn't clear why we would agree to put it on the article, unless we
also give every Wikipedia editor who edits the article the ability to
add their own disclaimer. The point of free content is that content
incorporated from other sources is not different than content written
directly for our project. Each source of content should ideally be
credited in a similar way, whether the source is another free-content
project or a local editor.

On English Wikipedia, we often credit external authors in the article
itself (see [[:en:Category:Attribution templates]]). These do show up
in a PDF created from the article. If there was a way to move these
into metadata for the article, that would also work, but the idea of
adding a disclaimer to the article itself seems to differ from usual
practice which is just to list the source.

- Carl

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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
On 14/04/12 00:09, Strainu wrote:
> ÃŽn data de 13 aprilie 2012, 21:15, Platonides <Platonides@gmail.com> a scris:
>> What kind of contents would the tags have? An name per line? What if
>> there should be something besides the name (eg. a url or email)?
>
> I was thinking the tags should contain all the attributions, therefore
> having a single instance on a page (much like <references/>)
>
> The text between the tags would be any kind of wikitext (links, images or text).

I think that if going with an extension for that, it should be a bit
more structurate.


>> Note that you can achieve a similar functionality right now with a
>> (series of) template which you place at the bottom of the page.
>
> There are many existing ways of doing that, but none allows one to
> escape the mw-body div. This means that the attributions would seem to
> be part of the article, which is exactly what I want to avoid (since
> many wikipedians are against it).
>
> Strainu

They can probably look like beig outside with the proper CSS.


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Re: Some tag for attribution within the article [ In reply to ]
ÃŽn data de 14 aprilie 2012, 16:55, Carl (CBM) <cbm.wikipedia@gmail.com> a scris:
> The point of free content is that content
> incorporated from other sources is not different than content written
> directly for our project.

Not really, no :)

The point of free content is to allow people ([1]):
* to use the content and benefit from using it,
* to study the content and apply what is learned,
* to make and distribute copies of the content,
* to change and improve the content and distribute these derivative works.

It doesn't say anything about disclaimers...

I think of disclaimers as being similar to the GFDL requirement to
attach a copy of the license to the work. Annoying, but if the
benefits exceed the cost, why not?


> Each source of content should ideally be
> credited in a similar way, whether the source is another free-content
> project or a local editor.

Agreed, but we don't live in an ideal world. Having an extension would
allow the same data to be rendered in different ways, depending on the
community consensus of the moment.

>
> but the idea of
> adding a disclaimer to the article itself seems to differ from usual
> practice which is just to list the source.

At the English Wikipedia you might get way with not using free text with
disclaimers because you have tons of free content in English and lots
of contributors to rephrase non-free content; unfortunately, I feel this does
not work for smaller languages.

ÃŽn data de 14 aprilie 2012, 17:22, Platonides <Platonides@gmail.com> a scris:
> I think that if going with an extension for that, it should be a bit
> more structurate.

Would you be able to come up with a proposal please?

> They can probably look like beig outside with the proper CSS.

Hmm... I'll try that. Mind if I poke you some time for advice?

Strainu

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_content

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