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[Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone
Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
Wikimedia servers.

Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.

There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.

We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
the Q&A for details.[4]

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
[2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
[3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
[4]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Thank you.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Quim Gil <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>




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Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Yes indeed, thank you.
On Nov 5, 2015 10:36 AM, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
That's an interesting update. Thanks for sharing.
--
Tito

On 5 November 2015 at 23:05, Quim Gil <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Il giorno gio, 05/11/2015 alle 18.35 +0100, Quim Gil ha scritto:
> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve
> a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.

This is great news!

Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?

Laurentius



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On 5 November 2015 at 10:14, Laurentius <laurentius.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
> Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?
>

There was a patch merged which removed the protection level completely:
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/251286/

Dan

--
Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
\o/

A.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Dan Garry <dgarry@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On 5 November 2015 at 10:14, Laurentius <laurentius.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
> > Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?
> >
>
> There was a patch merged which removed the protection level completely:
> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/251286/
>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Garry
> Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>



--
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
great news, indeed!

Thanks to everyone involved during the different stages of this process for
making this happen. :-)

Leila

On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Asaf Bartov <abartov@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> \o/
>
> A.
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:20 AM, Dan Garry <dgarry@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > On 5 November 2015 at 10:14, Laurentius <laurentius.wiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
> > > Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?
> > >
> >
> > There was a patch merged which removed the protection level completely:
> > https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/251286/
> >
> > Dan
> >
> > --
> > Dan Garry
> > Lead Product Manager, Discovery
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Laurentius <laurentius.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
> Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?
>

It never was in the MediaWiki code to begin with. It was just a particular
configuration of a custom protection level, like the 'templateeditor'
("template protected") level on enwiki or the 'editeditorprotected'
("geschützt (nur Sichter)") level on dewiki.


--
Brad Jorsch (Anomie)
Senior Software Engineer
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Yay! Great news about Superprotect's scrapping, also really good to hear
the direction of travel on the development process.

Chris
On 5 Nov 2015 17:36, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
It's a great news to hear that superprotect is gone and the willingness of
a better collaboration.
It's a long-awaited move.

2015-11-05 20:03 GMT+01:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>:

> Yay! Great news about Superprotect's scrapping, also really good to hear
> the direction of travel on the development process.
>
> Chris
> On 5 Nov 2015 17:36, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> > product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> > dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> > Wikimedia servers.
> >
> > Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However,
> we
> > still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays
> at
> > the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> > work together towards better products, and ship better features faster.
> The
> > collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> > and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> > build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
> >
> > There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> > will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> > stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> > particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> > will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> > potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
> >
> > We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors.
> Check
> > the Q&A for details.[4]
> >
> > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> > [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> > [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> > [4]
> >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
> >
> > --
> > Quim Gil
> > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
At last it is gone. Great news. Looking forward.

Bodhisattwa
On 6 Nov 2015 00:40, "Pierre-Selim" <pierre-selim@huard.info> wrote:

> It's a great news to hear that superprotect is gone and the willingness of
> a better collaboration.
> It's a long-awaited move.
>
> 2015-11-05 20:03 GMT+01:00 Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>:
>
> > Yay! Great news about Superprotect's scrapping, also really good to hear
> > the direction of travel on the development process.
> >
> > Chris
> > On 5 Nov 2015 17:36, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve
> a
> > > product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> > > dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> > > Wikimedia servers.
> > >
> > > Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However,
> > we
> > > still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays
> > at
> > > the product deployment phase. We need to become better software
> partners,
> > > work together towards better products, and ship better features faster.
> > The
> > > collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual
> trust
> > > and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> > > build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
> > >
> > > There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2]
> that
> > > will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> > > stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> > > particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier
> on
> > > will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> > > potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
> > >
> > > We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors.
> > Check
> > > the Q&A for details.[4]
> > >
> > > [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> > > [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> > > [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> > > [4]
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
> > >
> > > --
> > > Quim Gil
> > > Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> > > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Pierre-Selim
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Laurentius <laurentius.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Il giorno gio, 05/11/2015 alle 18.35 +0100, Quim Gil ha scritto:
> > Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve
> > a
> > product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> > dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> > Wikimedia servers.
>
> This is great news!
>
> Just to understand, is it still present in MediaWiki but not active on
> Wikimedia sites or it not in the MediaWiki code anymore?
>

There is no code specific to "superprotect"; it's the exact same MediaWiki
permissions/protection system that lets users in the 'sysop' group override
the ability of anonymous or regular users to edit particular pages.
Technically nothing has changed -- particular protection levels can be
added and removed via configuration at any time if they are needed.


In other words -- ignore the superprotect red herring! Please look at the
documentation of the product process and give feedback on that, it's much,
MUCH more important:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process

-- brion
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Hi Quim,
you really made my day. :-)

Il 05/11/2015 18:35, Quim Gil ha scritto:
> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Thank you for sharing the news, Quim.

Following Quim's announcement, there was also, for the first time since
nearly 1,000 Wikimedians requested the Foundation address this issue in
2014,[1] a formal statement about it from the organization's leadership.
Executive Director Lila Tretikov said today in the live-streamed, monthly
Metrics & Activities meeting:

"We wanted to remove Superprotect. Superprotect set up a precedent of
mistrust, and this is something it was really important for us to remove,
to at least come back to the baseline of a relationship where we're working
together, we're one community, to create a better process. To make sure we
can move together faster, and to make sure everybody is part of that
process, everybody is part of that conversation, and not just us at WMF."[2]

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Letter_to_Wikimedia_Foundation:_Superprotect_and_Media_Viewer
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePV-7nhO-z0#t=18m50s
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Brion Vibber wrote:
>In other words -- ignore the superprotect red herring! Please look at the
>documentation of the product process and give feedback on that, it's much,
>MUCH more important:
>
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process

Great news to read that "superprotection" is dead! Erik brought an
invaluable amount of good to Wikimedia, but that mis-feature was
unequivocally bad. Personally, I think it was more of an albatross than a
red herring. ;-) Good riddance.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On 2015-11-05 18:35, Quim Gil wrote:
> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve
> a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>

Great, thank you, it is clearly a step in a good direction.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Good riddance to a bad mistake. Hopefully the underlying causes of the
MediaViewer conflict can be addressed before any other incidents of this
nature occur.

Cheers,
Craig
On 06/11/2015 3:36 AM, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>
> There is a first draft of an updated Product Development Process [2] that
> will guide the work of the WMF Engineering and Product teams.[3] It
> stresses the need for community feedback throughout the process, but
> particularly in the early phases of development. More feedback earlier on
> will allow us to incorporate community-driven improvements and address
> potential controversy while plans and software are most flexible.
>
> We welcome the feedback of technical and non-technical contributors. Check
> the Q&A for details.[4]
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Superprotect
> [2] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process
> [3] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering
> [4]
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_Product_Development_Process/2015-11-05#Q.26A
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On 05/11/15 17:35, Quim Gil wrote:
> Superprotect [1] was introduced by the Wikimedia Foundation to resolve a
> product development disagreement. We have not used it for resolving a
> dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing Superprotect from
> Wikimedia servers.
>
> Without Superprotect, a symbolic point of tension is resolved. However, we
> still have the underlying problem of disagreement and consequent delays at
> the product deployment phase. We need to become better software partners,
> work together towards better products, and ship better features faster. The
> collaboration between the WMF and the communities depends on mutual trust
> and constructive criticism. We need to improve Wikimedia mechanisms to
> build consensus, include more voices, and resolve disputes.
>

That's fantastic, represents a huge vote of confidence for the Wiki Way,
and is a big move towards improving the relationship between the WMF and
the community.

Thank you!

-- Neil


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 10:51 AM, Neil Harris <neil@tonal.clara.co.uk> wrote:

> That's fantastic, represents a huge vote of confidence for the Wiki Way,
> and is a big move towards improving the relationship between the WMF and
> the community.
>

Just to keep things in perspective: the removal of superprotect (which is,
granted, not the only action described) is a rather minor and only mildly
positive step. Compare it to what should have happened: superprotect
*should* have been removed a year ago along with a profuse apology
acknowledging that it should never have been imposed in the first place.
Instead, it's removed a year later with the remark that "We have not used
it for resolving a dispute since. Consequently, today we are removing
Superprotect from Wikimedia servers" (05/11/15 17:35, Quim Gil wrote). In
other words, it wasn't removed because it shouldn't have been imposed in
the first place, but merely because it wasn't used. Is it good that it was
removed? Sure, it's better to have had it removed than not. But it's a
cheap token gesture.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 8:04 AM, pi zero <wn.pi.zero@gmail.com> wrote:

> In
> other words, it wasn't removed because it shouldn't have been imposed in
> the first place, but merely because it wasn't used. Is it good that it was
> removed? Sure, it's better to have had it removed than not. But it's a
> cheap token gesture.
>
>
I think you're adding meanings to where they are not present. The reasons
for SP removal are not that it wasn't used. And just the fact that it
wasn't used is irrelevant: there have been views that SP could be useful
potentially in the future, etc., so that it should stay just in case.

I have been involved in a series of meaningful conversations with Lila and
WMF staff, and we all eventually came to an agreement that any potential
theoretical benefits do not prevail over the symbolic damage the very
existence of this tool (not just its use) inflicts. My understanding is
that this is the main reason for SP removal, not the fact that it was not
used.

best,

dariusz "pundit"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Hi pi zero,

On Sun, Nov 8, 2015 at 2:04 PM, pi zero <wn.pi.zero@gmail.com> wrote:

> it wasn't removed because it shouldn't have been imposed in
> the first place, but merely because it wasn't used.


I'm sorry if my wording could suggest this interpretation. I just wanted to
provide basic information about Superprotect to the many people that have
heard about it but in fact didn't know much about its use today. This is
also why the Q&A included more details:

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#When_has_been_Superprotect_used.3F

The main reason to act upon Superprotect now is the updated product
development process
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process> in the
drafts, which we want to discuss and agree with the communities. This new
process should make Superprotect unnecessary; removing it upfront was a
logical step.

I have added these points in the Q&A:

Why is Superprotect being removed?
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_Superprotect_being_removed.3F

Why is the WMF doing this now?
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_the_WMF_doing_this_now.3F

I hope this clarifies that sentence.

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
On Nov 8, 2015 9:34 PM, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> the Q&A included more details:
>
>
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#When_has_been_Superprotect_used.3F
>
> The main reason to act upon Superprotect now is the updated product
> development process
> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process> in the
> drafts, which we want to discuss and agree with the communities. This new
> process should make Superprotect unnecessary; removing it upfront was a
> logical step.
>
> I have added these points in the Q&A:
>
> Why is Superprotect being removed?
>
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_Superprotect_being_removed.3F
>
> Why is the WMF doing this now?
>
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_the_WMF_doing_this_now.3F
>
> I hope this clarifies that sentence.

Referring to "misbehaviour" in this context is extremely offensive; the
initial use of superprotect was not a response to "misbehaviour".
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Thanks for the explanations. I always thought of the Superprotect
function as a technical way to react in a social-legal space of
tension. A discussion about the technical function is much less
interesting than about the real issue, of how to improve the MediaWiki
software with regard to the different needs of different actors
(readers, contributors, maybe others).

Andy, would you mind to explain what to mean exactly with "offensive"?

Kind regards
Ziko




2015-11-09 0:04 GMT+01:00 Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>:
> On Nov 8, 2015 9:34 PM, "Quim Gil" <qgil@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> the Q&A included more details:
>>
>>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#When_has_been_Superprotect_used.3F
>>
>> The main reason to act upon Superprotect now is the updated product
>> development process
>> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process> in the
>> drafts, which we want to discuss and agree with the communities. This new
>> process should make Superprotect unnecessary; removing it upfront was a
>> logical step.
>>
>> I have added these points in the Q&A:
>>
>> Why is Superprotect being removed?
>>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_Superprotect_being_removed.3F
>>
>> Why is the WMF doing this now?
>>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/WMF_product_development_process/2015-11-05#Why_is_the_WMF_doing_this_now.3F
>>
>> I hope this clarifies that sentence.
>
> Referring to "misbehaviour" in this context is extremely offensive; the
> initial use of superprotect was not a response to "misbehaviour".
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Superprotect is gone [ In reply to ]
Hi Andy,

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Andy Mabbett <andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk>
wrote:

> Referring to "misbehaviour" in this context is extremely offensive; the
> initial use of superprotect was not a response to "misbehaviour".
>

Changed for the more precise and descriptive term "irregular edits":
https://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?title=WMF_product_development_process%2F2015-11-05&type=revision&diff=1935550&oldid=1935526
.

On the "extremely offensive" part, let me explain why I typed "misbehavior"
without aiming to offend anyone. That paragraph refers to a future context
defined by the new development process. That sentence refers to a potential
situation where the process has been followed and someone blocks it using
their admin permissions. What the sentence wants to say is that, even if
someone thinks such action is misbehavior, the solution is to let the
admins handle the situation, not to use a tool controlled exclusively by
the WMF. I'm sure we agree with this principle.

I wasn't trying to judge past events. It is the job of the administrators
to judge whether an edit in a page editable only by admins is appropriate
or not.

PS: if you find room for improvement in the Q&A, you can comment in the
Talk page, or edit directly. Wiki business as usual.

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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