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[Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel
Hi Garfield,

I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted
the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of
living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
associated high salaries for WMF employees.

I see on
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
lease expires.

Questions:

What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current
location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
remodel by the building owner?

I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
being considered?

Thanks very much,

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to
recruitment competitiveness will be quickly lost to the drain that losing
whatever significant percent of the staff that doesn't make the move incurs
on the organization.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Postscript (sorry): this isn't a time-sensitive question, so please respond
at your convenience. Thanks (:

Pine
On Apr 7, 2015 9:58 PM, "Pine W" <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted
> the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of
> living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
>
> I see on
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
> lease expires.
>
> Questions:
>
> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current
> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> remodel by the building owner?
>
> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> being considered?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Pine
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Relocating within the US or worldwide?

Relocating the whole office or just some departments?

Vince

2015-04-08 7:07 GMT+02:00 Aleksey Bilogur <aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com>:

> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to
> recruitment competitiveness will be quickly lost to the drain that losing
> whatever significant percent of the staff that doesn't make the move incurs
> on the organization.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On 8 April 2015 at 06:07, Aleksey Bilogur <aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com> wrote:
> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to...

Plenty of companies and charities happily move their HQ building
location with more staff gaining benefits rather than losing them. I
was involved with a corporate move where most staff went from London
to Glasgow, with the benefit that their family and social lives
improved and they could afford to buy large houses with the same money
it takes to buy half a small flat in London. Presented the right way,
a move can improve staff commitment and even reduce turnover.

You also can't have it both ways, the WMF is supposed to be a
multi-location global organization. Strategically it would be better
to grow globally in several locations, rather than always having
everyone in the same offices in the same city on the West Coast of
America. Our staff and volunteers are highly experienced in virtual
cooperation and meetings, the WMF could even become an exemplar for
how that works for smaller organizations with global teams.

Fae
--
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
(volunteer hat on)

Glasgow to London in no way represents the scale of what any move,
even an in-US move, would be, unless the goal is for the WMF to end up
in LA or (maybe) Portland.

I would agree that a multi-location setup would work better as a good
expansion route here, although I'm not sure what that how that would
work out internationally, in terms of legal liability. Even just
having an east coast location in somewhere obvious (we have clusters
of staff in, e.g., Boston, Raleigh and NY, albeit small clusters)
would make a big difference.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8 April 2015 at 06:07, Aleksey Bilogur <aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com> wrote:
>> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to...
>
> Plenty of companies and charities happily move their HQ building
> location with more staff gaining benefits rather than losing them. I
> was involved with a corporate move where most staff went from London
> to Glasgow, with the benefit that their family and social lives
> improved and they could afford to buy large houses with the same money
> it takes to buy half a small flat in London. Presented the right way,
> a move can improve staff commitment and even reduce turnover.
>
> You also can't have it both ways, the WMF is supposed to be a
> multi-location global organization. Strategically it would be better
> to grow globally in several locations, rather than always having
> everyone in the same offices in the same city on the West Coast of
> America. Our staff and volunteers are highly experienced in virtual
> cooperation and meetings, the WMF could even become an exemplar for
> how that works for smaller organizations with global teams.
>
> Fae
> --
> faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
I know from experience that East St Louis is pretty cheap, and it's
centrally located. And the weather is almost as good as California, but
without the Hurricanes.

How do the WMF staff feel about moving to East St Louis? I imagine they
would be *thrilled*.

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 8 April 2015 at 14:57, Oliver Keyes <ironholds@gmail.com> wrote:

> (volunteer hat on)
>
> Glasgow to London in no way represents the scale of what any move,
> even an in-US move, would be, unless the goal is for the WMF to end up
> in LA or (maybe) Portland.
>
> I would agree that a multi-location setup would work better as a good
> expansion route here, although I'm not sure what that how that would
> work out internationally, in terms of legal liability. Even just
> having an east coast location in somewhere obvious (we have clusters
> of staff in, e.g., Boston, Raleigh and NY, albeit small clusters)
> would make a big difference.
>
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 8 April 2015 at 06:07, Aleksey Bilogur <aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains
> to...
> >
> > Plenty of companies and charities happily move their HQ building
> > location with more staff gaining benefits rather than losing them. I
> > was involved with a corporate move where most staff went from London
> > to Glasgow, with the benefit that their family and social lives
> > improved and they could afford to buy large houses with the same money
> > it takes to buy half a small flat in London. Presented the right way,
> > a move can improve staff commitment and even reduce turnover.
> >
> > You also can't have it both ways, the WMF is supposed to be a
> > multi-location global organization. Strategically it would be better
> > to grow globally in several locations, rather than always having
> > everyone in the same offices in the same city on the West Coast of
> > America. Our staff and volunteers are highly experienced in virtual
> > cooperation and meetings, the WMF could even become an exemplar for
> > how that works for smaller organizations with global teams.
> >
> > Fae
> > --
> > faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
I see that East St Louis also has a murder rate approaching that of say,
Bogota. This to me says "vibrant".

On a more serious note, while SF is egregiously expensive, if you want to
attract good people, you have to base yourself where the action is.

S

On 8 April 2015 at 16:46, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk>
wrote:

> I know from experience that East St Louis is pretty cheap, and it's
> centrally located. And the weather is almost as good as California, but
> without the Hurricanes.
>
> How do the WMF staff feel about moving to East St Louis? I imagine they
> would be *thrilled*.
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> On 8 April 2015 at 14:57, Oliver Keyes <ironholds@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (volunteer hat on)
> >
> > Glasgow to London in no way represents the scale of what any move,
> > even an in-US move, would be, unless the goal is for the WMF to end up
> > in LA or (maybe) Portland.
> >
> > I would agree that a multi-location setup would work better as a good
> > expansion route here, although I'm not sure what that how that would
> > work out internationally, in terms of legal liability. Even just
> > having an east coast location in somewhere obvious (we have clusters
> > of staff in, e.g., Boston, Raleigh and NY, albeit small clusters)
> > would make a big difference.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 8 April 2015 at 06:07, Aleksey Bilogur <aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains
> > to...
> > >
> > > Plenty of companies and charities happily move their HQ building
> > > location with more staff gaining benefits rather than losing them. I
> > > was involved with a corporate move where most staff went from London
> > > to Glasgow, with the benefit that their family and social lives
> > > improved and they could afford to buy large houses with the same money
> > > it takes to buy half a small flat in London. Presented the right way,
> > > a move can improve staff commitment and even reduce turnover.
> > >
> > > You also can't have it both ways, the WMF is supposed to be a
> > > multi-location global organization. Strategically it would be better
> > > to grow globally in several locations, rather than always having
> > > everyone in the same offices in the same city on the West Coast of
> > > America. Our staff and volunteers are highly experienced in virtual
> > > cooperation and meetings, the WMF could even become an exemplar for
> > > how that works for smaller organizations with global teams.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > > --
> > > faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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>


​

--

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Questions:
>
> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current
> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> remodel by the building owner?
>
> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> being considered?
>

Keep in mind that the WMF already mitigates the cost and competition of the
San Francisco Bay Area market by recruiting remote employees.

According to the recent report (
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf)
a large number are based either in other U.S. states or internationally.
Out of 202 employees, 77% are US-based in 19 states and 23% are based
abroad in 19 countries.

Combine the remote employees in the U.S. and abroad, I wouldn't be
surprised if close to half of staff are based remotely. On engineering
teams especially, it's not uncommon for a majority of employees to be
remote.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
My two cents would be that of what evil giant corporations do: move their
departments to the best place possible regarding costs/competition.
Software development in SF, customer service to India :)

For example keeping the sofware somewhere in the Bay Area would keep the
potential to attract highly qualified software guys. While others, for
example grantmaking would do better in my opinion in the old continent
(that is 'Yurp'). In London or Paris or Berlin, you can select from a wide
and deep pool of experts yet still cheaper than SF. Note, about 50-70
percent of the chapters/thorgs/etc. would be within 2-4 hrs of flight and
virtually all would be on a direct flight. Lots of saving on travelling
costs for those that has to travel the most.

You can play with the rest as you wish. Finance for example don't travel
anywhere except the top management (1-2 ppl), so they can be in East St
Louis :)

My British company where I work has its finance in the Czech Republic, and
its IT support in India for instance.

Balazs

2015-04-08 20:29 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling <steven.walling@gmail.com>:

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
> current
> > location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> > remodel by the building owner?
> >
> > I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> > area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> > less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> > being considered?
> >
>
> Keep in mind that the WMF already mitigates the cost and competition of the
> San Francisco Bay Area market by recruiting remote employees.
>
> According to the recent report (
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf
> )
> a large number are based either in other U.S. states or internationally.
> Out of 202 employees, 77% are US-based in 19 states and 23% are based
> abroad in 19 countries.
>
> Combine the remote employees in the U.S. and abroad, I wouldn't be
> surprised if close to half of staff are based remotely. On engineering
> teams especially, it's not uncommon for a majority of employees to be
> remote.
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hello,

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:07 PM, Aleksey Bilogur
<aleksey.bilogur@gmail.com> wrote:
> A logistical non-starter! They've got 200+ staff members, any gains to
> recruitment competitiveness will be quickly lost to the drain that losing
> whatever significant percent of the staff that doesn't make the move incurs
> on the organization.

I don't think it's that clear-cut.

A large part of the Product & Engineering staff is already working remotely, so
they wouldn't be affected by the change. Many SF-based staffers also work
remotely some of the time, and there are constant efforts being made to make
the organization more remote-friendly; it wouldn't be a stretch to become a
remote-first organization, to split to smaller offices, to relocate entirely, or
all of the above.

Some WMF employees followed the WMF from St Petersburg, FL to San Francisco
during the 2007 relocation. I expect that this would also happen to some
extent if the WMF were to relocate and/or split to smaller distributed offices.
San Francisco isn't just expensive for the WMF; it's expensive for employees
as well, and some of them may find it beneficial to move to a less expensive
area, especially as they start families.

In addition to the insanely high cost of living in the San Francisco area,
there are other reasons that make relocation a viable long-term solution. The
main that come to mind are geological instability (the bay area /will/ be
struck by major earthquakes in the medium term) and ecological conditions
(i.e. the multi-year drought and its anticipated socio-ecological
consequences). Planning for continuity means taking these concerns into
account in any medium- and long-term strategy thinking.

As Oliver mentioned, an East-coast office could make sense in this context.
Technical staff is somewhat distributed around the globe, but in contrast the
head (leadership) and backbone (finance, admin and HR) of the WMF is
concentrated in the San Francisco office. In the current situation, it would
take months or years to recover from a major disaster. Transitioning to
several (2+) smaller, distributed offices would make the organization a lot more
resilient, geographically and functionally.

All this to say: it is possible, even probably desirable, for the WMF to
consider relocating out of the Bay Area in the long term (in whole or in
part), so entertaining the idea is a valid train of thought.

--
Guillaume Paumier (volunteer capacity)
https://guillaumepaumier.com

This is a mailing list-only e-mail address. Direct messages may go unnoticed.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
I like the ideas about setting up a variety of remote clusters as well as
remote individual employees. Google, Microsoft and Facebook have remote
clusters, and I'm sure that many other companies do this as well. Besides
decreasing expenses, improving travel logistics, and improving recruiting,
having a distributed workforce increases disaster resiliency such as in
case San Francisco had a major earthquake.

Careful planning of the clusters would be important, of course, in order to
maximize the benefits. And legal exposure could become more complicated.

Many major tech companies seem to feel that the tradeoffs of distributed
workforces are worth it. WMF already makes this work to a degree with
individual remote employees, so establishing remote clusters and moving
department HQs to better locations than SF would be a reasonable
progression.

Cheers,

Pine
On Apr 8, 2015 12:08 PM, "Balázs Viczián" <balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu>
wrote:

> My two cents would be that of what evil giant corporations do: move their
> departments to the best place possible regarding costs/competition.
> Software development in SF, customer service to India :)
>
> For example keeping the sofware somewhere in the Bay Area would keep the
> potential to attract highly qualified software guys. While others, for
> example grantmaking would do better in my opinion in the old continent
> (that is 'Yurp'). In London or Paris or Berlin, you can select from a wide
> and deep pool of experts yet still cheaper than SF. Note, about 50-70
> percent of the chapters/thorgs/etc. would be within 2-4 hrs of flight and
> virtually all would be on a direct flight. Lots of saving on travelling
> costs for those that has to travel the most.
>
> You can play with the rest as you wish. Finance for example don't travel
> anywhere except the top management (1-2 ppl), so they can be in East St
> Louis :)
>
> My British company where I work has its finance in the Czech Republic, and
> its IT support in India for instance.
>
> Balazs
>
> 2015-04-08 20:29 GMT+02:00 Steven Walling <steven.walling@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > >
> > > What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
> > current
> > > location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> > > remodel by the building owner?
> > >
> > > I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> > > area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds,
> have
> > > less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is
> this
> > > being considered?
> > >
> >
> > Keep in mind that the WMF already mitigates the cost and competition of
> the
> > San Francisco Bay Area market by recruiting remote employees.
> >
> > According to the recent report (
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:State_of_the_Wikimedia_Foundation.pdf
> > )
> > a large number are based either in other U.S. states or internationally.
> > Out of 202 employees, 77% are US-based in 19 states and 23% are based
> > abroad in 19 countries.
> >
> > Combine the remote employees in the U.S. and abroad, I wouldn't be
> > surprised if close to half of staff are based remotely. On engineering
> > teams especially, it's not uncommon for a majority of employees to be
> > remote.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like the ideas about setting up a variety of remote clusters as well as
> remote individual employees. Google, Microsoft and Facebook have remote
> clusters, and I'm sure that many other companies do this as well. Besides
> decreasing expenses, improving travel logistics, and improving recruiting,
> having a distributed workforce increases disaster resiliency such as in
> case San Francisco had a major earthquake.


Google, Microsoft and Facebook also have the vast majority of their
employees working in the Pacific Northwest. I don't think recruiting and
location strategy is a topic particularly amenable to amateur input. The
management of the WMF is not an element of the movement that is
crowdsourced, probably for good reason. Not that anyone with great
confidence in their opinion should refrain from offering it, but hopefully
no one will be upset when the WMF makes its own decision.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
The Android app is now a featured app in Google Play. This means Google has
recognised our design of the app to be amongst the best. This has led to
the app being downloaded and used more, therefore supporting our
organisation's goal to share knowledge. A massive part of why that happened
is because myself and the app's primary designer were able to attend a
conference Google had on material design, and relay that to our team. The
conference was in San Francisco, so cost us nothing to attend.

My point is that these kinds of opportunities crop up a lot in San
Francisco, and lead to measurable and demonstrable increases in the user
value of the products we create. It's not like San Francisco is simply an
expensive place with no benefits; if we were not in San Francisco,
these opportunities would either not exist or would start costing us money
(because we'd have to fly staff to San Francisco to take part in them).

All of us, myself included, are just guessing about all of this since we
don't have all the facts and data. I have complete faith in the
organisation's executive leadership to weigh that data and make an
appropriate decision.

Dan


On Tuesday, April 7, 2015, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted
> the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of
> living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
>
> I see on
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
> lease expires.
>
> Questions:
>
> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current
> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> remodel by the building owner?
>
> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> being considered?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Pine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>



--
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Associate Product Manager, Mobile Apps
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hi Pine,

If the Foundation decides to move, the cost of making the space usable for
our staff is not a recoverable cost from the building owner.

At this point, WMF is not planning on moving out of the San Francisco
market area. We will be doing our best to manage cost when we renew our
lease or move. The advantages of having good access to talented people and
organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving to a
lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.

Regards,

Garfield

On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted
> the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of
> living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
>
> I see on
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
> lease expires.
>
> Questions:
>
> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its current
> location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for the
> remodel by the building owner?
>
> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
> being considered?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Pine
>



--
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hi Garfield,

Ok, follow up questions:

* Does WMF have a plan to keep the Foundation and its essential functions
operational if, say, the San Francisco main building all SF staff are
completely offline and unreachable by phone for a week after an earthquake?

* Would there be worthwhile advantages to establishing a second main office
in someplace like the US east coast or Europe?

Thanks, and please reply when it's convenient for you.

I'll follow up offline with HR about talent pool questions.

Thanks,

Pine
On Apr 8, 2015 5:16 PM, "Garfield Byrd" <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> If the Foundation decides to move, the cost of making the space usable for
> our staff is not a recoverable cost from the building owner.
>
> At this point, WMF is not planning on moving out of the San Francisco
> market area. We will be doing our best to manage cost when we renew our
> lease or move. The advantages of having good access to talented people and
> organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving to a
> lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.
>
> Regards,
>
> Garfield
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Garfield,
>>
>> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have noted
>> the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost of
>> living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
>> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
>>
>> I see on
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
>> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
>> lease expires.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
>> current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for
>> the remodel by the building owner?
>>
>> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
>> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
>> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
>> being considered?
>>
>> Thanks very much,
>>
>> Pine
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Garfield Byrd
> Chief of Finance and Administration
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> 415.882.0495 (fax)
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On 9 April 2015 at 01:16, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> ... The advantages of having good access to talented people and
> organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving to a
> lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.

I find the world-view expressed here slightly odd to read, perhaps
because I am more European than American in background.

My background includes working for long periods with many companies in
the U.S. (such as Microsoft) and we managed to do that perfectly with
a handful of employees in a Seattle office, and most developers and
internal operations such as HR, finance etc. in Europe (very few of
these people ever had a need or desire to talk directly with customers
or partner organizations). It was easy enough for me to visit the U.S.
a couple of times a year when there was a lot going on there, and work
on a daily basis within a lively virtual team spread out in offices
across London, Paris and New York.

"Talented people" can be found in many places including San Francisco,
and though Google is incredibly important, there many other critically
important potential open knowledge partners without headquarters in SF
(Europeana springs to mind). Even Mozilla has a very nice office to
work with here in London. The idea that having all functions in SF has
advantages that "far outweigh" all other considerations seems to
over-egg the case, perhaps it would be a good thing to leave the door
open a crack for alternative ways of working to be possible in a far
future.

Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hi Pine,

I have answered your questions in your email.

Regards,

Garfield

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garfield,
>
> Ok, follow up questions:
>
> * Does WMF have a plan to keep the Foundation and its essential functions
> operational if, say, the San Francisco main building all SF staff are
> completely offline and unreachable by phone for a week after an earthquake?
>
Yes, we have a plan in place in case the building in San Francisco is
unavailable. All San Francisco staff will not be offline for a week after
an earthquake. Not all staff live in San Francisco, and Loma Prieta showed
that even a major earthquake does not take the entire San Francisco Bay
Area offline. So essential functions will continue even after an
earthquake.

In addition, even though many of our staff are in San Francisco, we do have
staff in many other states and 18 countries.

* Would there be worthwhile advantages to establishing a second main office
in someplace like the US east coast or Europe?

We have tried to setup a center of activity in other states and it did not
prove to be worthwhile, as staff preferred to work from home or other
locations. So it was an an additional cost with any additional benefit. It
is my understanding that having an office outside the United States creates
complications for Wikipedia and the other Wiki projects in the area of
content protection.

> Thanks, and please reply when it's convenient for you.
>
> I'll follow up offline with HR about talent pool questions.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
> On Apr 8, 2015 5:16 PM, "Garfield Byrd" <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Pine,
>>
>> If the Foundation decides to move, the cost of making the space usable
>> for our staff is not a recoverable cost from the building owner.
>>
>> At this point, WMF is not planning on moving out of the San Francisco
>> market area. We will be doing our best to manage cost when we renew our
>> lease or move. The advantages of having good access to talented people and
>> organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving to a
>> lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Garfield
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Garfield,
>>>
>>> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have
>>> noted the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high cost
>>> of living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
>>> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
>>>
>>> I see on
>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
>>> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main office
>>> lease expires.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
>>> current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated for
>>> the remodel by the building owner?
>>>
>>> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco market
>>> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds, have
>>> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is this
>>> being considered?
>>>
>>> Thanks very much,
>>>
>>> Pine
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Garfield Byrd
>> Chief of Finance and Administration
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
>> 415.882.0495 (fax)
>> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>>
>> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
>> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>>
>> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
>>
>


--
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hi Fae,

We have 215 staff in total, with a hub of activity in San Francisco and
other staff in several other states and 18 countries. So I agree talented
people can be found globally and WMF does hire the best talent it can find
wherever they are located. At this point adding offices in other locations
add cost without any benefits to the community or the Wikimedia
Foundation. We also do not have the luxury of Mozilla's $300 million
budget that can support a London office or Microsoft's billions to have a
globally distributed workforce with offices. So we are not closing the
door to anything. Based on our test project of trying to develop centers of
activity in other parts of the United States there is no need for
additional offices. We do need and will continue to hire a globally
distributed staff of talented people to support our global community of
talented volunteers.

Regards,

Garfield

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9 April 2015 at 01:16, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > ... The advantages of having good access to talented people and
> > organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving
> to a
> > lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.
>
> I find the world-view expressed here slightly odd to read, perhaps
> because I am more European than American in background.
>
> My background includes working for long periods with many companies in
> the U.S. (such as Microsoft) and we managed to do that perfectly with
> a handful of employees in a Seattle office, and most developers and
> internal operations such as HR, finance etc. in Europe (very few of
> these people ever had a need or desire to talk directly with customers
> or partner organizations). It was easy enough for me to visit the U.S.
> a couple of times a year when there was a lot going on there, and work
> on a daily basis within a lively virtual team spread out in offices
> across London, Paris and New York.
>
> "Talented people" can be found in many places including San Francisco,
> and though Google is incredibly important, there many other critically
> important potential open knowledge partners without headquarters in SF
> (Europeana springs to mind). Even Mozilla has a very nice office to
> work with here in London. The idea that having all functions in SF has
> advantages that "far outweigh" all other considerations seems to
> over-egg the case, perhaps it would be a good thing to leave the door
> open a crack for alternative ways of working to be possible in a far
> future.
>
> Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On 9 April 2015 at 16:47, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hi Fae,
>
> We have 215 staff in total, with a hub of activity in San Francisco and
> other staff in several other states and 18 countries. So I agree talented
> people can be found globally and WMF does hire the best talent it can find
> wherever they are located. At this point adding offices in other locations
> add cost without any benefits to the community or the Wikimedia
> Foundation. We also do not have the luxury of Mozilla's $300 million
> budget that can support a London office or Microsoft's billions to have a
> globally distributed workforce with offices. So we are not closing the
> door to anything. Based on our test project of trying to develop centers of
> activity in other parts of the United States there is no need for
> additional offices. We do need and will continue to hire a globally
> distributed staff of talented people to support our global community of
> talented volunteers.

Thanks for the response, it makes sense to me.

I agree with avoiding additional offices unless there is a very good
business case. Back in the late 1990s I was part of a small
consultancy where we chose to eliminate having a central office
altogether. It was a strange thing to try back last century, but
moving more of the administrative functions into the virtual working
space, and arming employees with excellent teamworking tools they can
use from home (or bookable office spaces locally) has become part of
the ordinary world of work these days.

WMF development happens this way already, and you writing here shows
that management/executive level folks are comfortable and skilled with
virtual spaces. It would be jolly interesting if the WMF were seen to
try out more virtual methods in other parts of its operation, and find
meaningful ways of reporting on benefits or avoidable costs. I see
this as part of the learning organization... Maybe a topic for another
thread at some point. :-)

Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
All --

As a matter of strategy we should be leveraging our open-source roots more
as we grow. This means distributed, loosely-coupled teams. We know from
software industry history that distributed teams work best when they are
*entirely* distributed. We are working on some structures that will allow
teams to either be entirely distributed or mostly co-located, consistent
with what we know about best outcomes. In SF, remote working is not very
common as the software companies demand people to be on-site and we have an
advantage with remote talent, but it is also not for everyone as it can be
isolating. Net-net.. before we worry about growth and costs we need to
worry about effectiveness, but we are thinking about this.

Thanks,
Lila

On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 9 April 2015 at 16:47, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > Hi Fae,
> >
> > We have 215 staff in total, with a hub of activity in San Francisco and
> > other staff in several other states and 18 countries. So I agree
> talented
> > people can be found globally and WMF does hire the best talent it can
> find
> > wherever they are located. At this point adding offices in other
> locations
> > add cost without any benefits to the community or the Wikimedia
> > Foundation. We also do not have the luxury of Mozilla's $300 million
> > budget that can support a London office or Microsoft's billions to have a
> > globally distributed workforce with offices. So we are not closing the
> > door to anything. Based on our test project of trying to develop centers
> of
> > activity in other parts of the United States there is no need for
> > additional offices. We do need and will continue to hire a globally
> > distributed staff of talented people to support our global community of
> > talented volunteers.
>
> Thanks for the response, it makes sense to me.
>
> I agree with avoiding additional offices unless there is a very good
> business case. Back in the late 1990s I was part of a small
> consultancy where we chose to eliminate having a central office
> altogether. It was a strange thing to try back last century, but
> moving more of the administrative functions into the virtual working
> space, and arming employees with excellent teamworking tools they can
> use from home (or bookable office spaces locally) has become part of
> the ordinary world of work these days.
>
> WMF development happens this way already, and you writing here shows
> that management/executive level folks are comfortable and skilled with
> virtual spaces. It would be jolly interesting if the WMF were seen to
> try out more virtual methods in other parts of its operation, and find
> meaningful ways of reporting on benefits or avoidable costs. I see
> this as part of the learning organization... Maybe a topic for another
> thread at some point. :-)
>
> Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
On 15-04-09 04:52 PM, Lila Tretikov wrote:
> but it is also not for everyone as it can be
> isolating

I think that, at the Foundation, we are blessed to have several
opportunities a year to meet with our colleagues during events, and that
things would be much more difficult as a distributed team if it weren't
the case.

-- Marc


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Interesting. I look forward to seeing these new structures. Thanks Lila.

Pine
On Apr 9, 2015 1:53 PM, "Lila Tretikov" <lila@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> All --
>
> As a matter of strategy we should be leveraging our open-source roots more
> as we grow. This means distributed, loosely-coupled teams. We know from
> software industry history that distributed teams work best when they are
> *entirely* distributed. We are working on some structures that will allow
> teams to either be entirely distributed or mostly co-located, consistent
> with what we know about best outcomes. In SF, remote working is not very
> common as the software companies demand people to be on-site and we have an
> advantage with remote talent, but it is also not for everyone as it can be
> isolating. Net-net.. before we worry about growth and costs we need to
> worry about effectiveness, but we are thinking about this.
>
> Thanks,
> Lila
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9 April 2015 at 16:47, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > Hi Fae,
> > >
> > > We have 215 staff in total, with a hub of activity in San Francisco and
> > > other staff in several other states and 18 countries. So I agree
> > talented
> > > people can be found globally and WMF does hire the best talent it can
> > find
> > > wherever they are located. At this point adding offices in other
> > locations
> > > add cost without any benefits to the community or the Wikimedia
> > > Foundation. We also do not have the luxury of Mozilla's $300 million
> > > budget that can support a London office or Microsoft's billions to
> have a
> > > globally distributed workforce with offices. So we are not closing the
> > > door to anything. Based on our test project of trying to develop
> centers
> > of
> > > activity in other parts of the United States there is no need for
> > > additional offices. We do need and will continue to hire a globally
> > > distributed staff of talented people to support our global community of
> > > talented volunteers.
> >
> > Thanks for the response, it makes sense to me.
> >
> > I agree with avoiding additional offices unless there is a very good
> > business case. Back in the late 1990s I was part of a small
> > consultancy where we chose to eliminate having a central office
> > altogether. It was a strange thing to try back last century, but
> > moving more of the administrative functions into the virtual working
> > space, and arming employees with excellent teamworking tools they can
> > use from home (or bookable office spaces locally) has become part of
> > the ordinary world of work these days.
> >
> > WMF development happens this way already, and you writing here shows
> > that management/executive level folks are comfortable and skilled with
> > virtual spaces. It would be jolly interesting if the WMF were seen to
> > try out more virtual methods in other parts of its operation, and find
> > meaningful ways of reporting on benefits or avoidable costs. I see
> > this as part of the learning organization... Maybe a topic for another
> > thread at some point. :-)
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
I do think that it's doesn't particularly match up for the Foundation to
base itself in one of the most expensive cities in the world, citing the
local talent pool, when a lot of the tech staff are being recruited
elsewhere and are working remotely. I did feel that a lot of the
motivation to moving to SF in the first place was because for some high
level staff, leading a tech-based organisation in SF looked better on the
old CV than leading a tech-based organisation in Flint, Gary, or East St.
Louis would.

With that said, I concede that it's probably much too late to unscramble
this particular egg, as relocating now would probably end up costing more
than would be saved by moving to a lower cost centre, which is unfortunate.

Regards,
Craig Franklin

On 10 April 2015 at 01:47, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi Fae,
>
> We have 215 staff in total, with a hub of activity in San Francisco and
> other staff in several other states and 18 countries. So I agree talented
> people can be found globally and WMF does hire the best talent it can find
> wherever they are located. At this point adding offices in other locations
> add cost without any benefits to the community or the Wikimedia
> Foundation. We also do not have the luxury of Mozilla's $300 million
> budget that can support a London office or Microsoft's billions to have a
> globally distributed workforce with offices. So we are not closing the
> door to anything. Based on our test project of trying to develop centers of
> activity in other parts of the United States there is no need for
> additional offices. We do need and will continue to hire a globally
> distributed staff of talented people to support our global community of
> talented volunteers.
>
> Regards,
>
> Garfield
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 9 April 2015 at 01:16, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > ... The advantages of having good access to talented people and
> > > organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving
> > to a
> > > lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.
> >
> > I find the world-view expressed here slightly odd to read, perhaps
> > because I am more European than American in background.
> >
> > My background includes working for long periods with many companies in
> > the U.S. (such as Microsoft) and we managed to do that perfectly with
> > a handful of employees in a Seattle office, and most developers and
> > internal operations such as HR, finance etc. in Europe (very few of
> > these people ever had a need or desire to talk directly with customers
> > or partner organizations). It was easy enough for me to visit the U.S.
> > a couple of times a year when there was a lot going on there, and work
> > on a daily basis within a lively virtual team spread out in offices
> > across London, Paris and New York.
> >
> > "Talented people" can be found in many places including San Francisco,
> > and though Google is incredibly important, there many other critically
> > important potential open knowledge partners without headquarters in SF
> > (Europeana springs to mind). Even Mozilla has a very nice office to
> > work with here in London. The idea that having all functions in SF has
> > advantages that "far outweigh" all other considerations seems to
> > over-egg the case, perhaps it would be a good thing to leave the door
> > open a crack for alternative ways of working to be possible in a far
> > future.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Garfield Byrd
> Chief of Finance and Administration
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> 415.882.0495 (fax)
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF office location and remodel [ In reply to ]
Hi Garfield, many thanks for your answer!
On Apr 9, 2015 5:35 PM, "Garfield Byrd" <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Pine,
>
> I have answered your questions in your email.
>
> Regards,
>
> Garfield
>
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Garfield,
> >
> > Ok, follow up questions:
> >
> > * Does WMF have a plan to keep the Foundation and its essential
functions
> > operational if, say, the San Francisco main building all SF staff are
> > completely offline and unreachable by phone for a week after an
earthquake?
> >
> Yes, we have a plan in place in case the building in San Francisco is
> unavailable. All San Francisco staff will not be offline for a week after
> an earthquake. Not all staff live in San Francisco, and Loma Prieta
showed
> that even a major earthquake does not take the entire San Francisco Bay
> Area offline. So essential functions will continue even after an
> earthquake.
>
> In addition, even though many of our staff are in San Francisco, we do
have
> staff in many other states and 18 countries.
>
> * Would there be worthwhile advantages to establishing a second main
office
> in someplace like the US east coast or Europe?
>
> We have tried to setup a center of activity in other states and it did not
> prove to be worthwhile, as staff preferred to work from home or other
> locations. So it was an an additional cost with any additional benefit.
It
> is my understanding that having an office outside the United States
creates
> complications for Wikipedia and the other Wiki projects in the area of
> content protection.

To create less headaches about this would it not be better to split up wmf
in two, one doing the software at any convenient location, while the other
one would own the domains, hosting and money?

> > Thanks, and please reply when it's convenient for you.
> >
> > I'll follow up offline with HR about talent pool questions.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pine
> > On Apr 8, 2015 5:16 PM, "Garfield Byrd" <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Pine,
> >>
> >> If the Foundation decides to move, the cost of making the space usable
> >> for our staff is not a recoverable cost from the building owner.
> >>
> >> At this point, WMF is not planning on moving out of the San Francisco
> >> market area. We will be doing our best to manage cost when we renew
our
> >> lease or move. The advantages of having good access to talented people
and
> >> organizations WMF interacts with far outweigh any advantages to moving
to a
> >> lower cost location outside of the San Francisco market area.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Garfield
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:58 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Garfield,
> >>>
> >>> I'm asking this on Wikimedia-l because a number of Wikimedians have
> >>> noted the expensiveness of the San Francisco area including its high
cost
> >>> of living for staff, employer competition for engineering talent, and
> >>> associated high salaries for WMF employees.
> >>>
> >>> I see on
> >>>
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/8/8a/RFP_for_Real_Estate_Services.pdf
> >>> that WMF is considering relocating its offices when its current main
office
> >>> lease expires.
> >>>
> >>> Questions:
> >>>
> >>> What happens to the remodel expenses that WMF is paying for at its
> >>> current location? If WMF vacates the premesis, will it be compensated
for
> >>> the remodel by the building owner?
> >>>
> >>> I hope that WMF is contemplating fully exiting the San Francisco
market
> >>> area in order to economize, get better value for our donors' funds,
have
> >>> less competition for talent, and lower costs of living for staff. Is
this
> >>> being considered?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks very much,
> >>>
> >>> Pine
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Garfield Byrd
> >> Chief of Finance and Administration
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> >> 415.882.0495 (fax)
> >> www.wikimediafoundation.org
> >>
> >> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> >> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> >>
> >> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Garfield Byrd
> Chief of Finance and Administration
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> 415.882.0495 (fax)
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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