Mailing List Archive

[Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA
Hi All,

I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
filing suit against the National Security Agency
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department of
Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice>,
and the U.S. Attorney General
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.

Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the FISA
Amendments Act
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008>
negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
projects. Today, we fight back.

An op-ed
<http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0>
by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
just published a blog post
<https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for translation).

Best,


Michelle Paulson

Senior Legal Counsel

Wikimedia Foundation

mpaulson@wikimedia.org

[1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
<http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
<https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
<http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
<http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
<https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
<http://www.wola.org/>.

[2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official capacity
as Director of the National Security Agency
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
National Intelligence
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
as Attorney
General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
the United States.


*NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Hi,

Wow! I am proud to be a volunteer working with an organisation daring
to take such steps.

I hope that this will bring concrete results.

Best regards,

Yann

2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:
> Hi All,
>
> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department of
> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice>,
> and the U.S. Attorney General
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>
> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the FISA
> Amendments Act
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008>
> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
> projects. Today, we fight back.
>
> An op-ed
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0>
> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
> just published a blog post
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for translation).
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michelle Paulson
>
> Senior Legal Counsel
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
>
> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> <http://www.wola.org/>.
>
> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official capacity
> as Director of the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> National Intelligence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> as Attorney
> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
> the United States.
>
>
> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Thank you for taking this action.

All the best,

Michael

> Michelle Paulson <mailto:mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> 10 March 2015 07:53
> Hi All,
>
> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> Department of
> Justice
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice>,
> and the U.S. Attorney General
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>
> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns
> from the
> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> the FISA
> Amendments Act
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008>
> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
> projects. Today, we fight back.
>
> An op-ed
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0>
> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> Additionally, we
> just published a blog post
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> translation).
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michelle Paulson
>
> Senior Legal Counsel
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
>
> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> <http://www.wola.org/>.
>
> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> capacity
> as Director of the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> National Intelligence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> as Attorney
> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
> the United States.
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
I applaud this action. Great.

The next step is making it not so easy for the NSA to harvest their ill
gotten gains. We could and should share our data from cache servers that
are much closer to our users ie outside the USA. The benefit would not be
so much in frustrating the NSA but more in providing our readers, even our
editors with a better service. So far the argument NOT to do is that
everything in the USA was peachy.
Thanks,
GerardM

On 10 March 2015 at 08:53, Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department
> of
> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >,
> and the U.S. Attorney General
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>
> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the
> FISA
> Amendments Act
> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >
> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
> projects. Today, we fight back.
>
> An op-ed
> <
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >
> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
> just published a blog post
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> translation).
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michelle Paulson
>
> Senior Legal Counsel
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
>
> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> <http://www.wola.org/>.
>
> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> capacity
> as Director of the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> National Intelligence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> as Attorney
> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
> the United States.
>
>
> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.

dariusz "pundit"

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department
> of
> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >,
> and the U.S. Attorney General
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>
> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the
> FISA
> Amendments Act
> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >
> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
> projects. Today, we fight back.
>
> An op-ed
> <
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >
> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
> just published a blog post
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> translation).
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michelle Paulson
>
> Senior Legal Counsel
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
>
> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> <http://www.wola.org/>.
>
> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> capacity
> as Director of the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> National Intelligence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> as Attorney
> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
> the United States.
>
>
> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community
> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>




--

__________________________
prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
i centrum badawczego CROW
Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl

członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW

Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010

Recenzje
Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
Pacific Standard:
http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
The Wikipedian:
http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
running with our tail between our legs?

On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
> this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
> support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
>
> dariusz "pundit"
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
>> filing suit against the National Security Agency
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department
>> of
>> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
>> >,
>> and the U.S. Attorney General
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
>> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
>> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
>> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>>
>> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from
>> the
>> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
>> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
>> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the
>> FISA
>> Amendments Act
>> <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
>> >
>> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
>> projects. Today, we fight back.
>>
>> An op-ed
>> <
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
>> >
>> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
>> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally,
>> we
>> just published a blog post
>> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
>> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
>> translation).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Michelle Paulson
>>
>> Senior Legal Counsel
>>
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
>>
>> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
>> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
>> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
>> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
>> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
>> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
>> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
>> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
>> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
>> <http://www.wola.org/>.
>>
>> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
>> capacity
>> as Director of the National Security Agency
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
>> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
>> National Intelligence
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
>> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his official
>> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
>> as Attorney
>> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General> of
>> the United States.
>>
>>
>> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
>> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
>> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for legal/ethical
>> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
>> community
>> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more
>> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> __________________________
> prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> i centrum badawczego CROW
> Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
>
> członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
> członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
>
> Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
> Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
> autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
>
> Recenzje
> Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> Pacific Standard:
> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> Motherboard: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
> The Wikipedian:
> http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>


--
Cometstyles

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
https is generaly increasing privacy of the users. http can be "listen" by
anyone. It is like using walkie-talkie - anyone with radio-scanner can
listen :-)





2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:

> for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> running with our tail between our legs?
>
> On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
> > this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
> > support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
> >
> > dariusz "pundit"
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <
> mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> Department
> >> of
> >> Justice <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >> >,
> >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in
> order
> >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> learn,
> >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> >>
> >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from
> >> the
> >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> the
> >> FISA
> >> Amendments Act
> >> <
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >> >
> >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in
> our
> >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> >>
> >> An op-ed
> >> <
> >>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >> >
> >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> government
> >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally,
> >> we
> >> just published a blog post
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> >> translation).
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >>
> >> Michelle Paulson
> >>
> >> Senior Legal Counsel
> >>
> >> Wikimedia Foundation
> >>
> >> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
> >>
> >> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> >> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> >> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> >> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> >> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> >> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> >> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> >> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> >> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> >> <http://www.wola.org/>.
> >>
> >> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> >> capacity
> >> as Director of the National Security Agency
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency
> >
> >> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> >> National Intelligence
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>;
> James
> >> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his
> official
> >> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> >> as Attorney
> >> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>
> of
> >> the United States.
> >>
> >>
> >> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
> >> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> >> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for
> legal/ethical
> >> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> >> community
> >> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For
> more
> >> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > __________________________
> > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> > i centrum badawczego CROW
> > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
> >
> > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
> > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
> >
> > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
> > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
> > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
> >
> > Recenzje
> > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> > Pacific Standard:
> >
> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> > Motherboard:
> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
> > The Wikipedian:
> > http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
> --
> Cometstyles
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Greatly done!
This is not just news. It is a mark that will be recorded in bold letters
in the history of human's quest for knowledge.


-user:ViswaPrabha
https://ml.wikipedia.org


On 10 March 2015 at 18:15, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek@gmail.com> wrote:

> https is generaly increasing privacy of the users. http can be "listen" by
> anyone. It is like using walkie-talkie - anyone with radio-scanner can
> listen :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
>
> > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > running with our tail between our legs?
> >
> > On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
> > > this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
> > > support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
> > >
> > > dariusz "pundit"
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <
> > mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> > >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> > Department
> > >> of
> > >> Justice <
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> > >> >,
> > >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in
> > order
> > >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the
> U.S.
> > >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> > learn,
> > >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> > >>
> > >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns
> from
> > >> the
> > >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> > >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> > >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> > the
> > >> FISA
> > >> Amendments Act
> > >> <
> > >>
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> > >> >
> > >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in
> > our
> > >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> > >>
> > >> An op-ed
> > >> <
> > >>
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> > >> >
> > >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> > government
> > >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> Additionally,
> > >> we
> > >> just published a blog post
> > >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> > >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> > >> translation).
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Michelle Paulson
> > >>
> > >> Senior Legal Counsel
> > >>
> > >> Wikimedia Foundation
> > >>
> > >> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
> > >>
> > >> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union>
> (ACLU).
> > >> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> > >> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> > >> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> > >> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> > >> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> > >> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> > >> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> > >> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> > >> <http://www.wola.org/>.
> > >>
> > >> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> > >> capacity
> > >> as Director of the National Security Agency
> > >> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency
> > >
> > >> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> > >> National Intelligence
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>;
> > James
> > >> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his
> > official
> > >> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> > >> as Attorney
> > >> General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General
> >
> > of
> > >> the United States.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If
> you
> > >> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about
> the
> > >> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for
> > legal/ethical
> > >> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> > >> community
> > >> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For
> > more
> > >> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > __________________________
> > > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> > > i centrum badawczego CROW
> > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> > > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
> > >
> > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
> > > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
> > >
> > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
> > > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
> > > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
> > >
> > > Recenzje
> > > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> > > Pacific Standard:
> > >
> >
> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> > > Motherboard:
> > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
> > > The Wikipedian:
> > >
> http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cometstyles
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
I created draft of the article about the case
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Wikimedia_v._NSA>in English Wikipedia.
I'm not sure it's not too soon to move this draft to the main namespace.
Please add content and then move it to main ns when you think it's ready.

Best

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 4:31 PM, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <vp2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Greatly done!
> This is not just news. It is a mark that will be recorded in bold letters
> in the history of human's quest for knowledge.
>
>
> -user:ViswaPrabha
> https://ml.wikipedia.org
>
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 18:15, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > https is generaly increasing privacy of the users. http can be "listen"
> by
> > anyone. It is like using walkie-talkie - anyone with radio-scanner can
> > listen :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > > running with our tail between our legs?
> > >
> > > On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
> > > > this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
> > > > support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
> > > >
> > > > dariusz "pundit"
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <
> > > mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi All,
> > > >>
> > > >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1]
> is
> > > >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> > > Department
> > > >> of
> > > >> Justice <
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> > > >> >,
> > > >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2]
> in
> > > order
> > > >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the
> > U.S.
> > > >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> > > learn,
> > > >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> > > >>
> > > >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns
> > from
> > > >> the
> > > >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> > > >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> > > >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority
> of
> > > the
> > > >> FISA
> > > >> Amendments Act
> > > >> <
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> > > >> >
> > > >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate
> in
> > > our
> > > >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> > > >>
> > > >> An op-ed
> > > >> <
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> > > >> >
> > > >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> > > government
> > > >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> > Additionally,
> > > >> we
> > > >> just published a blog post
> > > >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> > > >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> > > >> translation).
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle Paulson
> > > >>
> > > >> Senior Legal Counsel
> > > >>
> > > >> Wikimedia Foundation
> > > >>
> > > >> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
> > > >>
> > > >> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union>
> > (ACLU).
> > > >> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal
> Defense
> > > >> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> > > >> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> > > >> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> > > >> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> > > >> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> > > >> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> > > >> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin
> America
> > > >> <http://www.wola.org/>.
> > > >>
> > > >> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> > > >> capacity
> > > >> as Director of the National Security Agency
> > > >> <
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency
> > > >
> > > >> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> > > >> National Intelligence
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>;
> > > James
> > > >> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his
> > > official
> > > >> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official
> capacity
> > > >> as Attorney
> > > >> General <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General
> > >
> > > of
> > > >> the United States.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If
> > you
> > > >> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about
> > the
> > > >> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for
> > > legal/ethical
> > > >> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> > > >> community
> > > >> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity.
> For
> > > more
> > > >> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > > >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > __________________________
> > > > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> > > > i centrum badawczego CROW
> > > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> > > > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
> > > >
> > > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
> > > > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
> > > >
> > > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
> > > > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
> > > > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
> > > >
> > > > Recenzje
> > > > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> > > > Pacific Standard:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> > > > Motherboard:
> > > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
> > > > The Wikipedian:
> > > >
> > http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cometstyles
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:

> for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> running with our tail between our legs?
>

(For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send
around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said
information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid eavesdropping.)

HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network, by
your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy, HTTPS
is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only
government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number of
countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding party
in the courtroom.

Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as
well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user has
accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be to
let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the byte
size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon as
images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user just
accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size, compare
with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any page
linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But it
would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect.

//Johan Jönsson
--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere:

HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts
your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more
secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today.

https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere



On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
>
> > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > running with our tail between our legs?
> >
>
> (For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send
> around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said
> information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid eavesdropping.)
>
> HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network, by
> your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy, HTTPS
> is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only
> government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number of
> countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding party
> in the courtroom.
>
> Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as
> well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user has
> accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be to
> let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the byte
> size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon as
> images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user just
> accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size, compare
> with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any page
> linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But it
> would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect.
>
> //Johan Jönsson
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Kudos to the Legal Team on this important case!

-greg aka varnent

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 9:01 AM, ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) <vp2007@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Greatly done!
> This is not just news. It is a mark that will be recorded in bold letters
> in the history of human's quest for knowledge.
>
>
> -user:ViswaPrabha
> https://ml.wikipedia.org
>
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 18:15, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > https is generaly increasing privacy of the users. http can be "listen"
> by
> > anyone. It is like using walkie-talkie - anyone with radio-scanner can
> > listen :-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > > running with our tail between our legs?
> > >
> > > On 3/10/15, Dariusz Jemielniak <darekj@alk.edu.pl> wrote:
> > > > this sounds exactly as a thing we, as a movement, need institutional
> > > > support of WMF for. Thanks for doing that.
> > > >
> > > > dariusz "pundit"
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Michelle Paulson <
> > > mpaulson@wikimedia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi All,
> > > >>
> > > >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1]
> is
> > > >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> > > Department
> > > >> of
> > > >> Justice <
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> > > >> >,
> > > >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2]
> in
> > > order
> > > >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the
> > U.S.
> > > >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> > > learn,
> > > >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> > > >>
> > > >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns
> > from
> > > >> the
> > > >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> > > >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> > > >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority
> of
> > > the
> > > >> FISA
> > > >> Amendments Act
> > > >> <
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> > > >> >
> > > >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate
> in
> > > our
> > > >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> > > >>
> > > >> An op-ed
> > > >> <
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> > > >> >
> > > >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> > > government
> > > >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> > Additionally,
> > > >> we
> > > >> just published a blog post
> > > >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> > > >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> > > >> translation).
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Michelle Paulson
> > > >>
> > > >> Senior Legal Counsel
> > > >>
> > > >> Wikimedia Foundation
> > > >>
> > > >> mpaulson@wikimedia.org
> > > >>
> > > >> [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union>
> > (ACLU).
> > > >> Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal
> Defense
> > > >> Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> > > >> <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> > > >> International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> > > >> <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> > > >> <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> > > >> <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> > > >> <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin
> America
> > > >> <http://www.wola.org/>.
> > > >>
> > > >> [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> > > >> capacity
> > > >> as Director of the National Security Agency
> > > >> <
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency
> > > >
> > > >> and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> > > >> National Intelligence
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>;
> > > James
> > > >> Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his
> > > official
> > > >> capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> > > >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official
> capacity
> > > >> as Attorney
> > > >> General <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General
> > >
> > > of
> > > >> the United States.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If
> > you
> > > >> have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about
> > the
> > > >> mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for
> > > legal/ethical
> > > >> reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> > > >> community
> > > >> members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity.
> For
> > > more
> > > >> on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > > >> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > __________________________
> > > > prof. dr hab. Dariusz Jemielniak
> > > > kierownik katedry Zarządzania Międzynarodowego
> > > > i centrum badawczego CROW
> > > > Akademia Leona Koźmińskiego
> > > > http://www.crow.alk.edu.pl
> > > >
> > > > członek Akademii Młodych Uczonych Polskiej Akademii Nauk
> > > > członek Komitetu Polityki Naukowej MNiSW
> > > >
> > > > Wyszła pierwsza na świecie etnografia Wikipedii "Common Knowledge? An
> > > > Ethnography of Wikipedia" (2014, Stanford University Press) mojego
> > > > autorstwa http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=24010
> > > >
> > > > Recenzje
> > > > Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welcome_mjx.shtml
> > > > Pacific Standard:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/killed-wikipedia-93777/
> > > > Motherboard:
> > > http://motherboard.vice.com/read/an-ethnography-of-wikipedia
> > > > The Wikipedian:
> > > >
> > http://thewikipedian.net/2014/10/10/dariusz-jemielniak-common-knowledge
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cometstyles
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy

Here's the "nutshell" description:

"Since we started switching to HTTPS and an increasing portion of inbound
traffic happens over SSL, Wikimedia sites stopped advertising themselves as
sources of referred traffic to external sites. While this is a literal
implication of HTTPS, it means that Wikimedia's impact on traffic directed
to other sites is becoming largely invisible: *is Wikimedia turning into a
large source of dark traffic?* I review a use case (traffic directed to
CrossRef) and discuss how other top web properties deal with this issue by
adopting a so-called "Referrer Policy"."

I don't know anything about this beyond what I've read on Meta, but I think
it offers some useful background for this discussion.

Pete
--
Pete Forsyth
[[User:Peteforsyth]] on English Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons, etc.

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@gmail.com> wrote:

> Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere:
>
> HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts
> your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more
> secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today.
>
> https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > > running with our tail between our legs?
> > >
> >
> > (For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send
> > around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said
> > information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid
> eavesdropping.)
> >
> > HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network, by
> > your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy,
> HTTPS
> > is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only
> > government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number
> of
> > countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding party
> > in the courtroom.
> >
> > Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as
> > well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user
> has
> > accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be to
> > let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the byte
> > size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon as
> > images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user just
> > accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size, compare
> > with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any
> page
> > linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But it
> > would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect.
> >
> > //Johan Jönsson
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
That's great!
Pending for translation.


2015-03-10 10:21 GMT-06:00 Pete Forsyth <peteforsyth@gmail.com>:

> There's a relevant research project outlined on Meta, about HTTPS:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikimedia_referrer_policy
>
> Here's the "nutshell" description:
>
> "Since we started switching to HTTPS and an increasing portion of inbound
> traffic happens over SSL, Wikimedia sites stopped advertising themselves as
> sources of referred traffic to external sites. While this is a literal
> implication of HTTPS, it means that Wikimedia's impact on traffic directed
> to other sites is becoming largely invisible: *is Wikimedia turning into a
> large source of dark traffic?* I review a use case (traffic directed to
> CrossRef) and discuss how other top web properties deal with this issue by
> adopting a so-called "Referrer Policy"."
>
> I don't know anything about this beyond what I've read on Meta, but I think
> it offers some useful background for this discussion.
>
> Pete
> --
> Pete Forsyth
> [[User:Peteforsyth]] on English Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons, etc.
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Lih <andrew.lih@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Probably a good time for everyone to know about EFF's HTTPS Everywhere:
> >
> > HTTPS Everywhere is a Firefox, Chrome, and Opera extension that encrypts
> > your communications with many major websites, making your browsing more
> > secure. Encrypt the web: Install HTTPS Everywhere today.
> >
> > https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > 2015-03-10 13:26 GMT+01:00 Comet styles <cometstyles@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > for an organization taking on the NSA for "spying"..why are we using
> > > > https? doesn't that show that we are already scared of them and
> > > > running with our tail between our legs?
> > > >
> > >
> > > (For non-technical readers: the HTTP protocol is the normal way to send
> > > around information on the web. HTTPS is the secure way of sending said
> > > information, adding encryption among other things, to avoid
> > eavesdropping.)
> > >
> > > HTTP traffic can easily be tracked by people sharing the same network,
> by
> > > your Internet service provider and so on. If one cares about privacy,
> > HTTPS
> > > is always important. It's worth noting that the NSA is not the only
> > > government agency in the world. I'd be even more worried about a number
> > of
> > > countries where there would be little chance to fight the intruding
> party
> > > in the courtroom.
> > >
> > > Side note: you could probably track most HTTPS traffic to Wikipedia as
> > > well, even if you're not the NSA. Normally you would see that the user
> > has
> > > accessed Wikipedia, but not which article. A way around that would be
> to
> > > let a spider (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_crawler) track the
> byte
> > > size of Wikipedia articles, which should be individual enough as soon
> as
> > > images are involved and compare it to the size of the page the user
> just
> > > accessed. If two articles happen to be of exactly the same size,
> compare
> > > with incoming and outgoing wiki links and see if the user accessed any
> > page
> > > linking to or linked from one the articles to determine which one. But
> it
> > > would at least take some sort of effort, and wouldn't be perfect.
> > >
> > > //Johan Jönsson
> > > --
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:

> Hi All,
>
> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department
> of
> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >,
> and the U.S. Attorney General
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>
> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the
> FISA
> Amendments Act
> <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >
> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
> projects. Today, we fight back.
>
> An op-ed
> <
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >
> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
> just published a blog post
> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> translation).
>

Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this move
to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
light (Amnesty, PEN, HRW) or unknown, but will it affect how the WMF is
seen in the US?

//Johan Jönsson
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
>
> Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this move
> to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
> intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
> organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
> light (Amnesty, PEN, HRW) or unknown, but will it affect how the WMF is
> seen in the US?
>

I'm not American, but the other co-plaintiffs seem to be civil rights /
human rights organisations who are firmly at the left-wing/progressive end
of US politics, some of them probably take the US government to court
fairly often. So being seen in this company might identify the WMF a little
with that part of the US political spectrum.

Equally, the fact that WMF isn't a political organisation and isn't in the
habit of suing the US Government probably adds a lot of weight to the
campaign!

Chris





>
> //Johan Jönsson
> --
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
It's difficult to overstate how much people love us. We tell them
everything about everything, and we're mostly right and try to stay
neutral. But it's all written by just people! So it's cosy as well.

With SOPA, we discovered that: when Wikipedia says you suck, you *suck*.

So I'd expect that this will only look good for us. But I don't claim
to have numbers to this effect.

On 10 March 2015 at 19:55, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
>> filing suit against the National Security Agency
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the Department
>> of
>> Justice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
>> >,
>> and the U.S. Attorney General
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in order
>> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
>> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to learn,
>> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
>>
>> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from the
>> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
>> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
>> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of the
>> FISA
>> Amendments Act
>> <
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
>> >
>> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in our
>> projects. Today, we fight back.
>>
>> An op-ed
>> <
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
>> >
>> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
>> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally, we
>> just published a blog post
>> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
>> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
>> translation).
>>
>
> Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this move
> to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
> intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
> organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
> light (Amnesty, PEN, HRW) or unknown, but will it affect how the WMF is
> seen in the US?
>
> //Johan Jönsson
> --
> _______________________________________________
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
In the U.S., there is also a strong minority contingent of Libertarians,
who tend to be on the right-wing/conservative part of the political
spectrum. These are natural allies for both privacy & governmental
non-intrunsion. I think that they would welcome WMF joining this legal
action.

Yours,
Peaceray

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's difficult to overstate how much people love us. We tell them
> everything about everything, and we're mostly right and try to stay
> neutral. But it's all written by just people! So it's cosy as well.
>
> With SOPA, we discovered that: when Wikipedia says you suck, you *suck*.
>
> So I'd expect that this will only look good for us. But I don't claim
> to have numbers to this effect.
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 19:55, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> Department
> >> of
> >> Justice <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >> >,
> >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in
> order
> >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> learn,
> >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> >>
> >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from
> the
> >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> the
> >> FISA
> >> Amendments Act
> >> <
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >> >
> >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in
> our
> >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> >>
> >> An op-ed
> >> <
> >>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >> >
> >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> government
> >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> Additionally, we
> >> just published a blog post
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> >> translation).
> >>
> >
> > Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this
> move
> > to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
> > intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
> > organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
> > light (Amnesty, PEN, HRW) or unknown, but will it affect how the WMF is
> > seen in the US?
> >
> > //Johan Jönsson
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Aye, I also only have anecdotal evidince at this point (from my father who
has been messaging me and myself) but the comments I've seen in the
american press have been 10:1 (higher on tech sites) with generally more
thoughtful comments then usual and where there are critiques they are not
bad ones. So far it looks like folks are very supportive of it.

This of course comes with the usual caveats of possible filter bubbles and
"commenters on american news sites not necessarily equating to a range of
american views".

James


On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's difficult to overstate how much people love us. We tell them
> everything about everything, and we're mostly right and try to stay
> neutral. But it's all written by just people! So it's cosy as well.
>
> With SOPA, we discovered that: when Wikipedia says you suck, you *suck*.
>
> So I'd expect that this will only look good for us. But I don't claim
> to have numbers to this effect.
>
> On 10 March 2015 at 19:55, Johan Jönsson <brevlistor@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:
> >
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> >> filing suit against the National Security Agency
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> Department
> >> of
> >> Justice <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice
> >> >,
> >> and the U.S. Attorney General
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in
> order
> >> to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> >> government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> learn,
> >> inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> >>
> >> Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from
> the
> >> community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> >> addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> >> surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> the
> >> FISA
> >> Amendments Act
> >> <
> >>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >> >
> >> negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in
> our
> >> projects. Today, we fight back.
> >>
> >> An op-ed
> >> <
> >>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >> >
> >> by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on
> government
> >> surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning.
> Additionally, we
> >> just published a blog post
> >> <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> >> information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> >> translation).
> >>
> >
> > Curious question, by the way: how controversial would you expect this
> move
> > to be domestically? From e.g. a Swedish perspective, the NSA is an
> > intelligence agency of a foreign power and the other mentioned
> > organizations are either largely uncontroversial and seen in a positive
> > light (Amnesty, PEN, HRW) or unknown, but will it affect how the WMF is
> > seen in the US?
> >
> > //Johan Jönsson
> > --
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm not American, but the other co-plaintiffs seem to be civil rights /
> human rights organisations who are firmly at the left-wing/progressive end
> of US politics
>

I am an American, and I'm not so sure about that characterization. Here are
the co-plaintiffs:

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH
AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL USA
PEN AMERICAN CENTER
GLOBAL FUND FOR WOMEN
THE NATION MAGAZINE
THE RUTHERFORD INSTITUTE
WASHINGTON OFFICE ON LATIN AMERICA

The one organization that describes itself as "the flagship of the left" is
The Nation magazine; I'm curious why they would be involved, without a
balancing conservative publication. Other than them, these seem like
non-partisan entities. You might describe a couple as left-leaning, but
others might be described as right-leaning.

In American politics, it seems to me that there is a similar (if not
greater) level of mistrust of the NSA and government surveillance among
right wing groups like the Tea Party, as there is among left wing
groups.[1] I think it's safe to say this is an issue that has significant
resonance across the political spectrum, and it would be interesting to
watch any effort to spin it as partisan for one side or the other. I doubt
such an attempt would be successful, but I could be wrong...it would be
interesting to watch it play out.

Speaking for myself, I'm less concerned about public perception of
Wikipedia's brand name on something like this, than success. Will this lead
to better policy? I'd be interested to hear more about the calculations and
predictions that went into it.

I believe people's judgments of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia movement, and the
Wikimedia Foundation will generally be formed on less politically charged
issues. Wikimedia is founded on collaborative practices; I believe the way
we treat stakeholders in the context of our various project-focused
activities, and the quality and reach of the projects themselves, have a
bigger impact on public perception.

If the Wikimedia Foundation gets an apparent "win" here, as it did with
SOPA, there may be some significant upside. If not, I think the only
downside would be expended resources; and (by design), WMF does not have
much accountability for poorly spent resources. So I don't see much of a
practical downside.

Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

[1] Lawrence Lessig has had compelling things to say about Occupy
(generally considered left-leaning) and the Tea Party (right wing):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/19/lawrence-lessig-occupy-tea-party_n_1018844.html
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Michelle and Geoff - thank you.
This is a big step; I am glad that WMF can help move this case forward.

Chris Keating writes:
> I'm not American, but the other co-plaintiffs seem to be civil rights /
> human rights organisations who are firmly at the left-wing/progressive end
> of US politics, some of them probably take the US government to court
> fairly often. So being seen in this company might identify the WMF a
little
> with that part of the US political spectrum.

More likely identified with the 'free speech + freedom from surveillance'
part of the spectrum, I would think. Which includes both conservative &
progressive views.

> Equally, the fact that WMF isn't a political organisation and isn't in the
> habit of suing the US Government probably adds a lot of weight to the
> campaign!

Let's hope so. A key point is that the extraordinary overreach of this
surveillance affects everyone.

Sam

On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 4:27 AM, Yann Forget <yannfo@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Wow! I am proud to be a volunteer working with an organisation daring
> to take such steps.
>
> I hope that this will bring concrete results.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yann
>
> 2015-03-10 8:53 GMT+01:00 Michelle Paulson <mpaulson@wikimedia.org>:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I’m writing to let you know that today the Wikimedia Foundation[1] is
> > filing suit against the National Security Agency
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency>, the
> Department of
> > Justice <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Justice>,
> > and the U.S. Attorney General
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>[2] in
> order
> > to challenge certain mass surveillance practices carried out by the U.S.
> > government. We believe these practices are impinging the freedom to
> learn,
> > inquire, and explore on Wikimedia sites.
> >
> > Since the 2013 mass surveillance disclosures, we’ve heard concerns from
> the
> > community about privacy on Wikipedia. This lawsuit is a step towards
> > addressing the community's justified concerns. We believe that the
> > surveillance methods being employed by the NSA under the authority of
> the FISA
> > Amendments Act
> > <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008
> >
> > negatively impact our users' ability and willingness to participate in
> our
> > projects. Today, we fight back.
> >
> > An op-ed
> > <
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/10/opinion/stop-spying-on-wikipedia-users.html?_r=0
> >
> > by Lila and Jimmy about the lawsuit, and Wikimedia's stance on government
> > surveillance, appeared in The New York Times this morning. Additionally,
> we
> > just published a blog post
> > <https://blog.wikimedia.org/2015/03/10/wikimedia-v-nsa/> with more
> > information about the suit. (The post will also up on Meta for
> translation).
> >
> > Best,
> >
> >
> > Michelle Paulson
> >
> > Senior Legal Counsel
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > mpaulson@wikimedia.org
> >
> > [1] We are being represented by the American Civil Liberties Union
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union> (ACLU).
> > Other plaintiffs include The National Association of Criminal Defense
> > Lawyers <http://www.nacdl.org/>, Human Rights Watch
> > <http://www.hrw.org/>, Amnesty
> > International USA <http://www.amnestyusa.org/>, Pen American Center
> > <https://www.pen.org/>, Global Fund for Women
> > <http://www.globalfundforwomen.org/>, The Nation Magazine
> > <http://www.thenation.com/>, The Rutherford Institute
> > <https://www.rutherford.org/>, and Washington Office on Latin America
> > <http://www.wola.org/>.
> >
> > [2] Other named defendants include: Michael Rogers
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_S._Rogers>, in his official
> capacity
> > as Director of the National Security Agency
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_the_National_Security_Agency>
> > and Chief of the Central Security Service; Office of the Director of
> > National Intelligence
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_National_Intelligence>; James
> > Clapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Clapper>, in his
> official
> > capacity as Director of National Intelligence; and Eric Holder
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Holder>, in his official capacity
> > as Attorney
> > General <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Attorney_General>
> of
> > the United States.
> >
> >
> > *NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you
> > have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the
> > mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation and for
> legal/ethical
> > reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for,
> community
> > members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For
> more
> > on what this means, please see our legal disclaimer
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer>.*
> > _______________________________________________
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--
Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Hi.

I'm of two minds here. I would love for mass surveillance to stop; the
revelations of the past few years are disgusting. However, this lawsuit
has the appearance of being the start of a completely un-winnable case
that's merely an expensive political stunt. Perhaps especially due to the
SOPA protests, I'm very wary of the Wikimedia Foundation engaging in
stunts like this. I have a few questions.



Has the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees passed a resolution
authorizing the Wikimedia Foundation general counsel and executive
director to pursue this lawsuit? I understand that one board member
(Jimmy) is involved, of course, but something of this scale seems like it
would require explicit authorization.

What's the projected financial cost of this lawsuit for the Wikimedia
Foundation?

What's the projected length of time that this lawsuit will take to resolve?

What specifically is the Wikimedia Foundation hoping to accomplish with
this lawsuit? I read about "filing this suit [...] to end this mass
surveillance program in order to protect the rights of our users around
the world," but what's a best-case scenario here? What could a federal
judge do here?

How does the Wikimedia Foundation intend to protect the rights of users
around the world when it will have a nearly impossible time of protecting
Americans, much less non-Americans? U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress have
made it very clear that spying on non-Americans is completely acceptable,
so when I read that the aim is to protect users worldwide, I'm pretty
skeptical.

Is there any indication from prior court cases that this lawsuit will be
successful? Reading <https://www.eff.org/node/84572> about Jewel v. NSA
leads to me to think that we already know almost exactly what's likeliest
to happen here.

Aside from standing, U.S. government agencies (even outside of
intelligence agencies) have broad immunity from lawsuits. How does the
Wikimedia Foundation intend to penetrate immunity here? It seems very
unlikely that a single slide in a classified presentation, which honestly
references Wikipedia only in passing as an example of a site using HTTP,
will convince any judge that there's enough to establish standing and
penetrate immunity.



My concern is that this will be an expensive, decade-long lawsuit that
will eat donor money and ultimately accomplish nothing.

Nearly all of the "surveillance" that takes place on our projects comes
from our users. We're radically transparent and we make it trivial to
track and audit any user's actions. This is by design, as it allows us to
prevent vandalism and other harm to the projects. Given Wikimedia's
particular setup, including the fact that we, for example, willfully
expose IP addresses if a user chooses to not log in, it seems that the
Wikimedia Foundation would have an even higher bar to clear in order to
establish harm.

But more to the point: even if by some miracle, this case were resolved in
2015 with a very explicit federal court order instructing the National
Security Agency to cease mass surveillance, is there anyone who believes
that this will end mass surveillance?

Our mission is to try to bring free educational content to the world.
Wouldn't it be a much smarter investment of donor resources to focus on
building Wikimedia? Surely there's plenty to do in that arena without us
needing to fight a battle we can't win in the courtroom.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 6:40 AM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Let's hope so. A key point is that the extraordinary overreach of this
> surveillance affects everyone.


I am absolutely delighted that the Wikimedia Foundation has taken this
courageous step - precisely because surveillance affects us all, and more
specifically Wikipedia users. For me, the value lies in taking the step:
regardless of whether we win or lose. I have no doubt it will be a tough
battle and that the legal team has taken this into calculation.

Congratulations, Michelle and Geoff and may the force be with you!
Bishakha
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
Hoi,
The fact that law suits like this actually happen is a wonderful
improvement in and of itself.

Our aim is to freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Free has many
meaning, one of them is free to share without consequences.It is not only
about free of cost.In the past we implemented https for the very reason
that we did not want eavesdropping on the content from our Wikis. I think
nobody ever suggested that we should not do this because of the cost. Now
we know that even with https organisations like the NSA have a capability
to listen in. There are many technical ways to make it more complicated to
eavesdrop including using a multitude of cache servers that serve our
content locally.

Organisations like the NSA are thought to be good for the status quo, for
the USA. They share their intel widely. In arguments it is always said that
US-Americans have nothing to fear. Our public is largely not in the US By
going to court, the Wikimedia Foundation make it clear that it cares for
the people who by definition are free game for the NSA. The argument "Why
is the WMF in the USA" has been made before. I am happy that because of the
WMF being in the USA it has standing to go to a US court. The least it does
is make it obvious that the NSA is not behaving in a way that is conducive
to propagating democracy and its associated values in our world. It shames
the current practices and the donkey may sing.

Thanks,
GerardM

On 11 March 2015 at 06:03, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:

> Hi.
>
> I'm of two minds here. I would love for mass surveillance to stop; the
> revelations of the past few years are disgusting. However, this lawsuit
> has the appearance of being the start of a completely un-winnable case
> that's merely an expensive political stunt. Perhaps especially due to the
> SOPA protests, I'm very wary of the Wikimedia Foundation engaging in
> stunts like this. I have a few questions.
>
>
>
> Has the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees passed a resolution
> authorizing the Wikimedia Foundation general counsel and executive
> director to pursue this lawsuit? I understand that one board member
> (Jimmy) is involved, of course, but something of this scale seems like it
> would require explicit authorization.
>
> What's the projected financial cost of this lawsuit for the Wikimedia
> Foundation?
>
> What's the projected length of time that this lawsuit will take to resolve?
>
> What specifically is the Wikimedia Foundation hoping to accomplish with
> this lawsuit? I read about "filing this suit [...] to end this mass
> surveillance program in order to protect the rights of our users around
> the world," but what's a best-case scenario here? What could a federal
> judge do here?
>
> How does the Wikimedia Foundation intend to protect the rights of users
> around the world when it will have a nearly impossible time of protecting
> Americans, much less non-Americans? U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress have
> made it very clear that spying on non-Americans is completely acceptable,
> so when I read that the aim is to protect users worldwide, I'm pretty
> skeptical.
>
> Is there any indication from prior court cases that this lawsuit will be
> successful? Reading <https://www.eff.org/node/84572> about Jewel v. NSA
> leads to me to think that we already know almost exactly what's likeliest
> to happen here.
>
> Aside from standing, U.S. government agencies (even outside of
> intelligence agencies) have broad immunity from lawsuits. How does the
> Wikimedia Foundation intend to penetrate immunity here? It seems very
> unlikely that a single slide in a classified presentation, which honestly
> references Wikipedia only in passing as an example of a site using HTTP,
> will convince any judge that there's enough to establish standing and
> penetrate immunity.
>
>
>
> My concern is that this will be an expensive, decade-long lawsuit that
> will eat donor money and ultimately accomplish nothing.
>
> Nearly all of the "surveillance" that takes place on our projects comes
> from our users. We're radically transparent and we make it trivial to
> track and audit any user's actions. This is by design, as it allows us to
> prevent vandalism and other harm to the projects. Given Wikimedia's
> particular setup, including the fact that we, for example, willfully
> expose IP addresses if a user chooses to not log in, it seems that the
> Wikimedia Foundation would have an even higher bar to clear in order to
> establish harm.
>
> But more to the point: even if by some miracle, this case were resolved in
> 2015 with a very explicit federal court order instructing the National
> Security Agency to cease mass surveillance, is there anyone who believes
> that this will end mass surveillance?
>
> Our mission is to try to bring free educational content to the world.
> Wouldn't it be a much smarter investment of donor resources to focus on
> building Wikimedia? Surely there's plenty to do in that arena without us
> needing to fight a battle we can't win in the courtroom.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcement: WMF to file suit against the NSA [ In reply to ]
On 11 March 2015 at 08:37, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hoi,
> The fact that law suits like this actually happen is a wonderful
> improvement in and of itself.
>
> Our aim is to freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Free has many
> meaning, one of them is free to share without consequences.It is not only
> about free of cost.In the past we implemented https for the very reason
> that we did not want eavesdropping on the content from our Wikis.


Partially implemented https



> I think
> nobody ever suggested that we should not do this because of the cost.


So for what reason wasn't it done?



> The least it does
> is make it obvious that the NSA is not behaving in a way that is conducive
> to propagating democracy and its associated values in our world. It shames
> the current practices and the donkey may sing.


Being spied on by AIVD on the other hand is just fine.

Seriously people if you aren't American pick your words with care. Your
domestic agencies are either worse or activity incompetent.
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