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[Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason
Hi all,

Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full months!

They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused for
3 months (February-April).

Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
become the victim of other projects.

This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently working
on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing projects.

And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before that
period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)

To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to communicate
well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up with
a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a couple
of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).

For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments in
2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan to
be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need to
start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.

Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international team
recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors, but
now all these teams are delayed for three months.

And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.

By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.


This shutting down results in:
* Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
proposals.
* Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality of
the plans.
* Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
reason.

Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
WMF: stop this negative campaign!


And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project: great
you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.


It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
enough.)
Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.

For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects that
make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
knowledge!!

Romaine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hi Romaine, is there a link to an on-wiki page that states this.

Based on your email, it is unfortunate that rather than stating that
PEG/IEGs would be prioritized to gendergap proposals for a time, the
choice appears to be to reject everything else.

I am not against positive discrimination where carefully managed. A
careful approach would avoid encouraging the perception that we have
to choose between gendergap and the rest of the community.

By the way, as a member of Wikimedia LGBT, my presumption is that LGBT
related proposals would be rejected in this period as they would not
be specifically about women.

Fae

On 3 January 2015 at 10:26, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full months!
>
> They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused for
> 3 months (February-April).
>
> Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> become the victim of other projects.
>
> This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently working
> on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing projects.
>
> And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before that
> period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
>
> To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to communicate
> well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up with
> a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a couple
> of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
>
> For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments in
> 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan to
> be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need to
> start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
>
> Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international team
> recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors, but
> now all these teams are delayed for three months.
>
> And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
>
> By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
>
>
> This shutting down results in:
> * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> proposals.
> * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality of
> the plans.
> * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> reason.
>
> Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> WMF: stop this negative campaign!
>
>
> And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project: great
> you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
>
>
> It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
> the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
> exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
> in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
> is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> enough.)
> Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
>
> For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects that
> make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> knowledge!!
>
> Romaine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>



--
faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
> the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
> exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
> in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
> is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> enough.)
> Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.

I think the gap is just as big in the English-speaking world, and that
if asked (that kind of says something, I think) a lot of people would
finger it as a priority—if nothing else, the content of traffic on
this list would appear to back that up.

Austin

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hi Fae,

I haven't seen a page about this on wiki yet. It appears that various
volunteers who are working on organizing are informed about this behind the
scenes directly.

It also was mentioned in a discussion about the organisation of Wiki Loves
Monuments which raised many concerns. It was first mentioned in this mail:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007597.html
+
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007599.html

Later confirmed by Alex Wang:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html

As I said this is not a positive campaign they intent, this is a negative
campaign as other projects are a victim here.

Yes, prioritizing is not a problem. But this does not feel good at all.
This is not good for project organizers nor for the gender gap projects,
nor for other projects.

Romaine


2015-01-03 11:56 GMT+01:00 Fæ <faewik@gmail.com>:

> Hi Romaine, is there a link to an on-wiki page that states this.
>
> Based on your email, it is unfortunate that rather than stating that
> PEG/IEGs would be prioritized to gendergap proposals for a time, the
> choice appears to be to reject everything else.
>
> I am not against positive discrimination where carefully managed. A
> careful approach would avoid encouraging the perception that we have
> to choose between gendergap and the rest of the community.
>
> By the way, as a member of Wikimedia LGBT, my presumption is that LGBT
> related proposals would be rejected in this period as they would not
> be specifically about women.
>
> Fae
>
> On 3 January 2015 at 10:26, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> months!
> >
> > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused
> for
> > 3 months (February-April).
> >
> > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> > become the victim of other projects.
> >
> > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> working
> > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> projects.
> >
> > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before
> that
> > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
> >
> > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> communicate
> > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up
> with
> > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a
> couple
> > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> >
> > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments
> in
> > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan
> to
> > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need
> to
> > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
> >
> > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international
> team
> > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> > proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors,
> but
> > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> >
> > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> >
> > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> >
> >
> > This shutting down results in:
> > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> > proposals.
> > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality
> of
> > the plans.
> > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> > reason.
> >
> > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> >
> >
> > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project:
> great
> > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
> >
> >
> > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That
> is
> > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new,
> it
> > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> Editor
> > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the
> gap
> > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > enough.)
> > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> >
> > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects
> that
> > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > knowledge!!
> >
> > Romaine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> faewik@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Le 03/01/2015 12:55, Romaine Wiki a écrit :
> Hi Fae,
>
> I haven't seen a page about this on wiki yet. It appears that various
> volunteers who are working on organizing are informed about this behind the
> scenes directly.
>
> It also was mentioned in a discussion about the organisation of Wiki Loves
> Monuments which raised many concerns. It was first mentioned in this mail:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007597.html
> +
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007599.html
>
> Later confirmed by Alex Wang:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html
>
> As I said this is not a positive campaign they intent, this is a negative
> campaign as other projects are a victim here.
>
> Yes, prioritizing is not a problem. But this does not feel good at all.
> This is not good for project organizers nor for the gender gap projects,
> nor for other projects.
>
> Romaine

Thanks Romaine, that sounds terrible.
I can imagine if Wikipedia was managed that way in its first period or
anytime : "We will proactively address our gap in History for the next 3
months, so please no more biology article until may (or maybe later
we'll tell you) "

The fact is we can't rely or very poorly on the WMF anymore. Or just in
the same way some people may apply for some governmental
organisations/agencies subsidies and have to be skilled enough, not in
their core project but to fit in the expectations, know the tricks for
that and have the ability to deal with such hitches without being
discouraged.

User:Pi zero made a pretty good point here:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&oldid=10876939#Infrastructure
"The WMF is internally structured to centrally create major software
initiatives to be designed, implemented, and imposed all from the top
down. This is the way commercial enterprises approach proprietary
software, so it's natural that people who come from that world (both
administrators and software developers) would tend to do things that
way. The approach is well suited to the purpose of creating software
that maximizes customers' dependency on the commercial enterprise. In
other words, it minimizes customers' ablity to improve, generalize,
duplicate, or even maintain the software on their own. However, this
approach is deeply inappropriate if you're trying to nurture volunteer
wikis. (...)"

--
Mathias Damour
User:Astirmays

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to
panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of
highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more energy
to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long theme, it
is hoped that the following will occur:
1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal reviewers
and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing proposals
as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and their
proposals.
2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier translation
across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to
manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various Wikimedia
projects.

The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How can
WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full months!
>
> They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused for
> 3 months (February-April).
>
> Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> become the victim of other projects.
>
> This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently working
> on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> projects.
>
> And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before that
> period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
>
> To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to communicate
> well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up with
> a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a couple
> of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
>
> For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments in
> 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan to
> be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need to
> start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
>
> Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international team
> recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors, but
> now all these teams are delayed for three months.
>
> And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
>
> By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
>
>
> This shutting down results in:
> * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> proposals.
> * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality of
> the plans.
> * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> reason.
>
> Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> WMF: stop this negative campaign!
>
>
> And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project: great
> you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
>
>
> It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
> the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
> exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
> in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
> is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> enough.)
> Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
>
> For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects that
> make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> knowledge!!
>
> Romaine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hello Jane,

Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.

As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the coverage of
so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects which do
not aim for such.

I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that never
ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging the
trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, etc.

Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the vision the
Wikimedia movement has.

> The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted
at the community in order to generate themed proposals.

If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not have
excluded other projects.

I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move in the
wrong direction.

And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a special
category for pink buildings.
Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.

Romaine














2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:

> As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need to
> panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
> shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
> campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
> community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of
> highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more energy
> to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long theme, it
> is hoped that the following will occur:
> 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal reviewers
> and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing proposals
> as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and their
> proposals.
> 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier translation
> across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
> 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to
> manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various Wikimedia
> projects.
>
> The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How can
> WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> months!
> >
> > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused
> for
> > 3 months (February-April).
> >
> > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> > become the victim of other projects.
> >
> > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> working
> > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> > projects.
> >
> > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before
> that
> > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
> >
> > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> communicate
> > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up
> with
> > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a
> couple
> > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> >
> > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments
> in
> > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan
> to
> > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need
> to
> > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
> >
> > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international
> team
> > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> > proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors,
> but
> > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> >
> > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> >
> > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> >
> >
> > This shutting down results in:
> > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> > proposals.
> > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality
> of
> > the plans.
> > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> > reason.
> >
> > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> >
> >
> > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project:
> great
> > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
> >
> >
> > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That
> is
> > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new,
> it
> > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> Editor
> > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the
> gap
> > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > enough.)
> > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> >
> > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects
> that
> > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > knowledge!!
> >
> > Romaine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
This is not a good point but it always the same point of discussion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar

Nothing new.

Both models have their own strengths and their own weaknesses.

regards

On 03.01.2015 14:57, Mathias Damour wrote:
>
>
> User:Pi zero made a pretty good point here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&oldid=10876939#Infrastructure
>
> "The WMF is internally structured to centrally create major software
> initiatives to be designed, implemented, and imposed all from the top
> down. This is the way commercial enterprises approach proprietary
> software, so it's natural that people who come from that world (both
> administrators and software developers) would tend to do things that
> way. The approach is well suited to the purpose of creating software
> that maximizes customers' dependency on the commercial enterprise. In
> other words, it minimizes customers' ablity to improve, generalize,
> duplicate, or even maintain the software on their own. However, this
> approach is deeply inappropriate if you're trying to nurture volunteer
> wikis. (...)"
>


--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


_______________________________________________
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Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only 6%
female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for the
Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main theme
for the coming three months.

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Jane,
>
> Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
>
> As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the coverage of
> so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects which do
> not aim for such.
>
> I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that never
> ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging the
> trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, etc.
>
> Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the vision the
> Wikimedia movement has.
>
> > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted
> at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
>
> If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not have
> excluded other projects.
>
> I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move in the
> wrong direction.
>
> And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a special
> category for pink buildings.
> Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
>
> > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no need
> to
> > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
> > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
> > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
> > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of
> > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more energy
> > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long theme,
> it
> > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal reviewers
> > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing
> proposals
> > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and their
> > proposals.
> > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> translation
> > across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
> > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to
> > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various Wikimedia
> > projects.
> >
> > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How can
> > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and
> Event
> > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> > months!
> > >
> > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused
> > for
> > > 3 months (February-April).
> > >
> > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having
> more
> > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such,
> we
> > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does
> not
> > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> > > become the victim of other projects.
> > >
> > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> > working
> > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before
> > that
> > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it
> isn't)
> > >
> > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> > communicate
> > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up
> > with
> > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a
> > couple
> > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period
> indicates
> > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > >
> > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments
> > in
> > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan
> > to
> > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we
> need
> > to
> > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it
> properly.
> > >
> > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international
> > team
> > > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have
> a
> > > proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors,
> > but
> > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > >
> > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize
> Wiki
> > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> > >
> > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> > > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> > >
> > >
> > > This shutting down results in:
> > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> > > proposals.
> > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality
> > of
> > > the plans.
> > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> > > reason.
> > >
> > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating
> them.
> > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > >
> > >
> > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project:
> > great
> > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting
> down
> > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
> > >
> > >
> > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap.
> That
> > is
> > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new,
> > it
> > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> > Editor
> > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the
> > gap
> > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > > enough.)
> > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > >
> > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects
> > that
> > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > > knowledge!!
> > >
> > > Romaine
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hi all,

I think that it's important to say that someone of the grant's team
probably will be out until 11th January (I have received an out of
office), so I suggest to postpone this discussion if we would not
proceed to a "
conviction in absentia".


Personally I had some concerns and I did a proposal suggesting to
dedicate a whole year to the a thematic priority but reducing 50% of the
grants for each round to this topic.

Why? It's simple, because there are some investments to do to revitalize
or to improve some areas, but there is no sense to forget that the
remaining areas still need to be supported and helped.

The worst would be to lose editors in the traditional areas (without a
good support) and in the same time to do not gain new volunteers through
the gender gap in order to fill the loss.

Though it is normal in any charitable foundation to assign a percentage
of the annual grants to a specific priority, there is not a scandal.

The best is to define what is the good way to have less stress in the
community. I think that a good suggestion done friendly and without
stress may help the movement.

About the remaining part I would say that some budgets for WLM are also
in the FDC applications and the FDC *already* stated the priorities for
2015 and *already* did some evaluations in order to define the impact.

I suggest to consider also these statements for the next WLM.

regards

On 03.01.2015 11:26, Romaine Wiki wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full months!
>
> They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused for
> 3 months (February-April).
>
> Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> become the victim of other projects.
>
> This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently working
> on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing projects.
>
> And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before that
> period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
>
> To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to communicate
> well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up with
> a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a couple
> of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
>
> For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments in
> 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan to
> be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need to
> start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
>
> Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international team
> recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors, but
> now all these teams are delayed for three months.
>
> And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
>
> By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
>
>
> This shutting down results in:
> * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> proposals.
> * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality of
> the plans.
> * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> reason.
>
> Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> WMF: stop this negative campaign!
>
>
> And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project: great
> you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
>
>
> It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
> the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
> exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
> in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
> is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> enough.)
> Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
>
> For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects that
> make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> knowledge!!
>
> Romaine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>


--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch

_______________________________________________
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Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case it is
about female participation.

I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this does not
give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not particular aiming
for female contributors.

WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects. That is
a very bad situation.

Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.

Bad idea.

Romaine



2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:

> Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only 6%
> female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for the
> Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main theme
> for the coming three months.
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Jane,
> >
> > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> >
> > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the coverage
> of
> > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects which
> do
> > not aim for such.
> >
> > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that
> never
> > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging the
> > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, etc.
> >
> > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the vision
> the
> > Wikimedia movement has.
> >
> > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted
> > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> >
> > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not have
> > excluded other projects.
> >
> > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move in
> the
> > wrong direction.
> >
> > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a special
> > category for pink buildings.
> > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no
> need
> > to
> > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
> > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
> > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
> > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth of
> > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more
> energy
> > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long
> theme,
> > it
> > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal
> reviewers
> > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing
> > proposals
> > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and
> their
> > > proposals.
> > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> > translation
> > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
> > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members to
> > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various
> Wikimedia
> > > projects.
> > >
> > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How
> can
> > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant
> making
> > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and
> > Event
> > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> > > months!
> > > >
> > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific
> strategic
> > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are
> refused
> > > for
> > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > >
> > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having
> > more
> > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as
> such,
> > we
> > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does
> > not
> > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects
> should
> > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > >
> > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> > > working
> > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> > > > projects.
> > > >
> > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before
> > > that
> > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it
> > isn't)
> > > >
> > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> > > communicate
> > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up
> > > with
> > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a
> > > couple
> > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period
> > indicates
> > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > >
> > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves
> Monuments
> > > in
> > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable
> plan
> > > to
> > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we
> > need
> > > to
> > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it
> > properly.
> > > >
> > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> international
> > > team
> > > > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to
> have
> > a
> > > > proper organisation together with various local partners and
> sponsors,
> > > but
> > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > >
> > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize
> > Wiki
> > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> > > >
> > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> > > > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good
> project
> > > > proposals.
> > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the
> quality
> > > of
> > > > the plans.
> > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> > > > reason.
> > > >
> > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating
> > them.
> > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project:
> > > great
> > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting
> > down
> > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad
> idea.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap.
> > That
> > > is
> > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not
> new,
> > > it
> > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> > > Editor
> > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe
> the
> > > gap
> > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but
> the
> > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > > > enough.)
> > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > >
> > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great
> projects
> > > that
> > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > > > knowledge!!
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
I would not comment but it's important to define if this gap has been
minimal in the past.

If the femal participation has always been under the 10% (in 10 years)
within a community, probably there are some infrastructural problems to
be analyzed.

The expected impact can be perceived as a temporary "bother" by the
current community and refused when the support will finish.

regards



On 03.01.2015 15:33, Jane Darnell wrote:
> Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only 6%
> female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for the
> Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main theme
> for the coming three months.
>


--
Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich
Tel: +41764821371
http://www.wikimedia.ch


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hi all,

I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for the
grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and adding a
voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding chances.

So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked plans
before having a propably heated debate about it.

Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a general
grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work on a
supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression on
many people.

best regards

Jens Best



2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:

> There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case it is
> about female participation.
>
> I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
> dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this does not
> give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not particular aiming
> for female contributors.
>
> WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects. That is
> a very bad situation.
>
> Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
>
> Bad idea.
>
> Romaine
>
>
>
> 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
>
> > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only 6%
> > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for the
> > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main
> theme
> > for the coming three months.
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Jane,
> > >
> > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > >
> > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> coverage
> > of
> > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects which
> > do
> > > not aim for such.
> > >
> > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that
> > never
> > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging the
> > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, etc.
> > >
> > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the vision
> > the
> > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > >
> > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many,
> targeted
> > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > >
> > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not have
> > > excluded other projects.
> > >
> > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move in
> > the
> > > wrong direction.
> > >
> > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a special
> > > category for pink buildings.
> > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.
> > >
> > > Romaine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no
> > need
> > > to
> > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
> > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
> > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
> > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth
> of
> > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more
> > energy
> > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long
> > theme,
> > > it
> > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal
> > reviewers
> > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing
> > > proposals
> > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and
> > their
> > > > proposals.
> > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> > > translation
> > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
> > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee members
> to
> > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various
> > Wikimedia
> > > > projects.
> > > >
> > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea! How
> > can
> > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant
> > making
> > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and
> > > Event
> > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> > > > months!
> > > > >
> > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific
> > strategic
> > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are
> > refused
> > > > for
> > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > >
> > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having
> > > more
> > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as
> > such,
> > > we
> > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that
> does
> > > not
> > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects
> > should
> > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> > > > working
> > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds
> as a
> > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> > > > > projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks
> before
> > > > that
> > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it
> > > isn't)
> > > > >
> > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid!
> and
> > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> > > > communicate
> > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come
> up
> > > > with
> > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just
> a
> > > > couple
> > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a
> good
> > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period
> > > indicates
> > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves
> > Monuments
> > > > in
> > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation
> and
> > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised
> as
> > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We
> are
> > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable
> > plan
> > > > to
> > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we
> > > need
> > > > to
> > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it
> > > properly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > international
> > > > team
> > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to
> > have
> > > a
> > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners and
> > sponsors,
> > > > but
> > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > >
> > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to
> organize
> > > Wiki
> > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors.
> We
> > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects
> are
> > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good
> > project
> > > > > proposals.
> > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the
> > quality
> > > > of
> > > > > the plans.
> > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no
> good
> > > > > reason.
> > > > >
> > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating
> > > them.
> > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap
> project:
> > > > great
> > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting
> > > down
> > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad
> > idea.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap.
> > > That
> > > > is
> > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not
> > new,
> > > > it
> > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of
> the
> > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> > > > Editor
> > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe
> > the
> > > > gap
> > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but
> > the
> > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are
> speak a
> > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > > > > enough.)
> > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > >
> > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great
> > projects
> > > > that
> > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> female-related topics.
>

I would say it is both, but in either case this would be important to
define if that is the criteria on which to solicit proposals. (The vision
of Wikimedia is to share the sum of all human knowledge, so from that
standpoint the end is to close the gap in coverage, diversity in the
editorship is a very important means to it.)

In any case, experimentation with the grants programme is probably for the
benefit of the community, but so is reliability and predictability. If the
original assumptions are clear, announcing a major policy change for the
grants programme only with 3 weeks of planned lead time seems to go againts
those latter expectations unfortunately.

Best regards,
Bence
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the wider
community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do this,
means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped.

As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual Engagement
Grants as well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html>by
Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this onwiki description
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign>.
I should also emphasize that Alex indicated that they don't expect this to
impact WLM-related grants (because they expect teams to request funding much
later in the process
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html>
- not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also
suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to
discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email).

I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is the
problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in our community, of which the
gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel
uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past
week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people
confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community support
(or at least support by the 'organizing community') for gendergap-related
projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or jealousy. I
called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not about
actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
related event.

What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny bit of
'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is
basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with less
than 90% men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic
priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including Wiki
Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively more women than the editor
population contains. But I am very unhappy if we start distributing grants
on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in general
editor retention, which happens to be relatively more women. The focus of
the projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared to
the actual activities.

Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider the
way this has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing on
supporting efforts in a thematic direction, rather than discouraging other
thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly
against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the idea
to focus entirely on photo-events only for three months...

Best,
Lodewijk

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.best@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for the
> grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
> grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and adding a
> voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding chances.
>
> So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked plans
> before having a propably heated debate about it.
>
> Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a general
> grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work on a
> supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression on
> many people.
>
> best regards
>
> Jens Best
>
>
>
> 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:
>
> > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case it
> is
> > about female participation.
> >
> > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
> > dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this does
> not
> > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not particular
> aiming
> > for female contributors.
> >
> > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects. That
> is
> > a very bad situation.
> >
> > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
> >
> > Bad idea.
> >
> > Romaine
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only
> 6%
> > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for
> the
> > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main
> > theme
> > > for the coming three months.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Jane,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > > >
> > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> > coverage
> > > of
> > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects
> which
> > > do
> > > > not aim for such.
> > > >
> > > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and that
> > > never
> > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging
> the
> > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the
> vision
> > > the
> > > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > > >
> > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many,
> > targeted
> > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > > >
> > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not
> have
> > > > excluded other projects.
> > > >
> > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move
> in
> > > the
> > > > wrong direction.
> > > >
> > > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a special
> > > > category for pink buildings.
> > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is no
> > > need
> > > > to
> > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking about
> > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The current
> > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at the
> > > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current growth
> > of
> > > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly more
> > > energy
> > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long
> > > theme,
> > > > it
> > > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal
> > > reviewers
> > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing
> > > > proposals
> > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers and
> > > their
> > > > > proposals.
> > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> > > > translation
> > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in advance
> > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee
> members
> > to
> > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > > projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea!
> How
> > > can
> > > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> > romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant
> > > making
> > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project
> and
> > > > Event
> > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three
> full
> > > > > months!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific
> > > strategic
> > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are
> > > refused
> > > > > for
> > > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me.
> Having
> > > > more
> > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as
> > > such,
> > > > we
> > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects
> > > should
> > > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are
> currently
> > > > > working
> > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April.
> Good
> > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds
> > as a
> > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in
> doing
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks
> > before
> > > > > that
> > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly
> it
> > > > isn't)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid!
> > and
> > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> > > > > communicate
> > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to
> come
> > up
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in
> just
> > a
> > > > > couple
> > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a
> > good
> > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period
> > > > indicates
> > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves
> > > Monuments
> > > > > in
> > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation
> > and
> > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide,
> recognised
> > as
> > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We
> > are
> > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good
> stable
> > > plan
> > > > > to
> > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes
> we
> > > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it
> > > > properly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > > international
> > > > > team
> > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to
> > > have
> > > > a
> > > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners and
> > > sponsors,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to
> > organize
> > > > Wiki
> > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and
> sponsors.
> > We
> > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such
> done.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects
> > are
> > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good
> > > project
> > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the
> > > quality
> > > > > of
> > > > > > the plans.
> > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no
> > good
> > > > > > reason.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not
> frustrating
> > > > them.
> > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap
> > project:
> > > > > great
> > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the
> shutting
> > > > down
> > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad
> > > idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community
> Gap.
> > > > That
> > > > > is
> > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is
> not
> > > new,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of
> > the
> > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the
> Visual
> > > > > Editor
> > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.)
> (Maybe
> > > the
> > > > > gap
> > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world,
> but
> > > the
> > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are
> > speak a
> > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community
> well
> > > > > > enough.)
> > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great
> > > projects
> > > > > that
> > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all
> human
> > > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
I find it interesting to discover via this conversation that it has not
been defined yet!

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > female-related topics.
> >
>
> I would say it is both, but in either case this would be important to
> define if that is the criteria on which to solicit proposals. (The vision
> of Wikimedia is to share the sum of all human knowledge, so from that
> standpoint the end is to close the gap in coverage, diversity in the
> editorship is a very important means to it.)
>
> In any case, experimentation with the grants programme is probably for the
> benefit of the community, but so is reliability and predictability. If the
> original assumptions are clear, announcing a major policy change for the
> grants programme only with 3 weeks of planned lead time seems to go againts
> those latter expectations unfortunately.
>
> Best regards,
> Bence
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
..and I am hoping to see lots of "gendergap paint"

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org>
wrote:

> I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
> list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the wider
> community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do this,
> means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped.
>
> As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual Engagement
> Grants as well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed
> <
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
> >by
> Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this onwiki description
> <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign
> >.
> I should also emphasize that Alex indicated that they don't expect this to
> impact WLM-related grants (because they expect teams to request funding
> much
> later in the process
> <
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html
> >
> - not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also
> suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to
> discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email).
>
> I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is the
> problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in our community, of which the
> gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel
> uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past
> week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people
> confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community support
> (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for gendergap-related
> projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or jealousy. I
> called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not about
> actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> related event.
>
> What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny bit of
> 'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is
> basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with less
> than 90% men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic
> priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including Wiki
> Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively more women than the editor
> population contains. But I am very unhappy if we start distributing grants
> on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in general
> editor retention, which happens to be relatively more women. The focus of
> the projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared to
> the actual activities.
>
> Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider the
> way this has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing on
> supporting efforts in a thematic direction, rather than discouraging other
> thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly
> against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the idea
> to focus entirely on photo-events only for three months...
>
> Best,
> Lodewijk
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.best@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for the
> > grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
> > grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and adding a
> > voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding chances.
> >
> > So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked
> plans
> > before having a propably heated debate about it.
> >
> > Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a general
> > grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work on
> a
> > supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression on
> > many people.
> >
> > best regards
> >
> > Jens Best
> >
> >
> >
> > 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case it
> > is
> > > about female participation.
> > >
> > > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
> > > dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this does
> > not
> > > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not particular
> > aiming
> > > for female contributors.
> > >
> > > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects. That
> > is
> > > a very bad situation.
> > >
> > > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
> > >
> > > Bad idea.
> > >
> > > Romaine
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with only
> > 6%
> > > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem for
> > the
> > > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a main
> > > theme
> > > > for the coming three months.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Jane,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> > > coverage
> > > > of
> > > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects
> > which
> > > > do
> > > > > not aim for such.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and
> that
> > > > never
> > > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is damaging
> > the
> > > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects,
> etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the
> > vision
> > > > the
> > > > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > > > >
> > > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many,
> > > targeted
> > > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > > > >
> > > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would not
> > have
> > > > > excluded other projects.
> > > > >
> > > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a move
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > wrong direction.
> > > > >
> > > > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a
> special
> > > > > category for pink buildings.
> > > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken seriously.
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there is
> no
> > > > need
> > > > > to
> > > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking
> about
> > > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The
> current
> > > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at
> the
> > > > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current
> growth
> > > of
> > > > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly
> more
> > > > energy
> > > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month long
> > > > theme,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal
> > > > reviewers
> > > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in managing
> > > > > proposals
> > > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers
> and
> > > > their
> > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> > > > > translation
> > > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in
> advance
> > > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee
> > members
> > > to
> > > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various
> > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great idea!
> > How
> > > > can
> > > > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> > > romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The
> grant
> > > > making
> > > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project
> > and
> > > > > Event
> > > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three
> > full
> > > > > > months!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific
> > > > strategic
> > > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are
> > > > refused
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me.
> > Having
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me
> as
> > > > such,
> > > > > we
> > > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that
> > > does
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other
> projects
> > > > should
> > > > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are
> > currently
> > > > > > working
> > > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April.
> > Good
> > > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are
> less
> > > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this
> sounds
> > > as a
> > > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in
> > doing
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks
> > > before
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly
> > it
> > > > > isn't)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still
> unpaid!
> > > and
> > > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to
> > come
> > > up
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in
> > just
> > > a
> > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a
> > > good
> > > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period
> > > > > indicates
> > > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves
> > > > Monuments
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better
> documentation
> > > and
> > > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide,
> > recognised
> > > as
> > > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records.
> We
> > > are
> > > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good
> > stable
> > > > plan
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And
> yes
> > we
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it
> > > > > properly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > > > international
> > > > > > team
> > > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February,
> to
> > > > have
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners and
> > > > sponsors,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to
> > > organize
> > > > > Wiki
> > > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and
> > sponsors.
> > > We
> > > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such
> > done.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian
> subjects
> > > are
> > > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good
> > > > project
> > > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the
> > > > quality
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > the plans.
> > > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for
> no
> > > good
> > > > > > > reason.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not
> > frustrating
> > > > > them.
> > > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap
> > > project:
> > > > > > great
> > > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make
> a
> > > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the
> > shutting
> > > > > down
> > > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a
> bad
> > > > idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community
> > Gap.
> > > > > That
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is
> > not
> > > > new,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the
> > Visual
> > > > > > Editor
> > > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.)
> > (Maybe
> > > > the
> > > > > > gap
> > > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world,
> > but
> > > > the
> > > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are
> > > speak a
> > > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community
> > well
> > > > > > > enough.)
> > > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great
> > > > projects
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all
> > human
> > > > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as one for Wiki Loves
Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted.

There is too much pointless political flim flam already in our Wikimedia
community without masking events as GenderGap for the sake of faking
metrics.

Fae
On 3 Jan 2015 15:50, "Jane Darnell" <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:

> ..and I am hoping to see lots of "gendergap paint"
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org>
> wrote:
>
> > I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
> > list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the wider
> > community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do this,
> > means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped.
> >
> > As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual Engagement
> > Grants as well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
> > >by
> > Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this onwiki description
> > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign
> > >.
> > I should also emphasize that Alex indicated that they don't expect this
> to
> > impact WLM-related grants (because they expect teams to request funding
> > much
> > later in the process
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html
> > >
> > - not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also
> > suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to
> > discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email).
> >
> > I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is the
> > problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in our community, of which the
> > gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel
> > uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past
> > week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people
> > confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community support
> > (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for gendergap-related
> > projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or
> jealousy. I
> > called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not
> about
> > actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> > about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> > people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> > related event.
> >
> > What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny bit
> of
> > 'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is
> > basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with less
> > than 90% men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic
> > priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including
> Wiki
> > Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively more women than the
> editor
> > population contains. But I am very unhappy if we start distributing
> grants
> > on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in general
> > editor retention, which happens to be relatively more women. The focus of
> > the projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared
> to
> > the actual activities.
> >
> > Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider the
> > way this has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing
> on
> > supporting efforts in a thematic direction, rather than discouraging
> other
> > thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly
> > against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the idea
> > to focus entirely on photo-events only for three months...
> >
> > Best,
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.best@wikimedia.de>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for
> the
> > > grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
> > > grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and adding a
> > > voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding chances.
> > >
> > > So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked
> > plans
> > > before having a propably heated debate about it.
> > >
> > > Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a
> general
> > > grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work
> on
> > a
> > > supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression on
> > > many people.
> > >
> > > best regards
> > >
> > > Jens Best
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this case
> it
> > > is
> > > > about female participation.
> > > >
> > > > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants is
> > > > dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this
> does
> > > not
> > > > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not particular
> > > aiming
> > > > for female contributors.
> > > >
> > > > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects.
> That
> > > is
> > > > a very bad situation.
> > > >
> > > > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
> > > >
> > > > Bad idea.
> > > >
> > > > Romaine
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with
> only
> > > 6%
> > > > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem
> for
> > > the
> > > > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a
> main
> > > > theme
> > > > > for the coming three months.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <
> romaine.wiki@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Jane,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> > > > coverage
> > > > > of
> > > > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the projects
> > > which
> > > > > do
> > > > > > not aim for such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and
> > that
> > > > > never
> > > > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is
> damaging
> > > the
> > > > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects,
> > etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with the
> > > vision
> > > > > the
> > > > > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many,
> > > > targeted
> > > > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would
> not
> > > have
> > > > > > excluded other projects.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a
> move
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > wrong direction.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a
> > special
> > > > > > category for pink buildings.
> > > > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken
> seriously.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there
> is
> > no
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking
> > about
> > > > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The
> > current
> > > > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted at
> > the
> > > > > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current
> > growth
> > > > of
> > > > > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly
> > more
> > > > > energy
> > > > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month
> long
> > > > > theme,
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as proposal
> > > > > reviewers
> > > > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in
> managing
> > > > > > proposals
> > > > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of proposers
> > and
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable easier
> > > > > > translation
> > > > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in
> > advance
> > > > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee
> > > members
> > > > to
> > > > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in various
> > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great
> idea!
> > > How
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> > > > romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The
> > grant
> > > > > making
> > > > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for
> Project
> > > and
> > > > > > Event
> > > > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three
> > > full
> > > > > > > months!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific
> > > > > strategic
> > > > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects
> are
> > > > > refused
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me.
> > > Having
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me
> > as
> > > > > such,
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But
> that
> > > > does
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other
> > projects
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are
> > > currently
> > > > > > > working
> > > > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and
> April.
> > > Good
> > > > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are
> > less
> > > > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this
> > sounds
> > > > as a
> > > > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in
> > > doing
> > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2
> weeks
> > > > before
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke,
> sadly
> > > it
> > > > > > isn't)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still
> > unpaid!
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time
> to
> > > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to
> > > come
> > > > up
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in
> > > just
> > > > a
> > > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in
> getting a
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the
> period
> > > > > > indicates
> > > > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves
> > > > > Monuments
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better
> > documentation
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide,
> > > recognised
> > > > as
> > > > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records.
> > We
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good
> > > stable
> > > > > plan
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And
> > yes
> > > we
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize
> it
> > > > > > properly.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > > > > international
> > > > > > > team
> > > > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in
> January/February,
> > to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners and
> > > > > sponsors,
> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to
> > > > organize
> > > > > > Wiki
> > > > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and
> > > sponsors.
> > > > We
> > > > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such
> > > done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian
> > subjects
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various
> Wikipedias.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit
> good
> > > > > project
> > > > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers
> the
> > > > > quality
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > the plans.
> > > > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for
> > no
> > > > good
> > > > > > > > reason.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not
> > > frustrating
> > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap
> > > > project:
> > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to
> make
> > a
> > > > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the
> > > shutting
> > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a
> > bad
> > > > > idea.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the
> Community
> > > Gap.
> > > > > > That
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It
> is
> > > not
> > > > > new,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the
> > > Visual
> > > > > > > Editor
> > > > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.)
> > > (Maybe
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > gap
> > > > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the
> world,
> > > but
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are
> > > > speak a
> > > > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide
> community
> > > well
> > > > > > > > enough.)
> > > > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great
> > > > > projects
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all
> > > human
> > > > > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
..and I dream of repetitive metrics that can be compared year to year

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:02 PM, Fæ <faewik@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ethically, I would rather defer a proposal, such as one for Wiki Loves
> Pride or a more general diversity event, until the restriction is lifted.
>
> There is too much pointless political flim flam already in our Wikimedia
> community without masking events as GenderGap for the sake of faking
> metrics.
>
> Fae
> On 3 Jan 2015 15:50, "Jane Darnell" <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > ..and I am hoping to see lots of "gendergap paint"
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Lodewijk <lodewijk@effeietsanders.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I hoped that after the discussions on the wiki loves monuments mailing
> > > list, someone of the grant team would have proactively informed the
> wider
> > > community in an earlier stage. I hope that the fact they did not do
> this,
> > > means they are reconsidering the way this campaign is shaped.
> > >
> > > As indicated before, this 'shutdown' (or focus) of Individual
> Engagement
> > > Grants as well as Project and Event Grants was confirmed
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007600.html
> > > >by
> > > Alex Wang. She referred in that email to this onwiki description
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IdeaLab/Inspire_Grants_%E2%80%93_Gender_gap_campaign
> > > >.
> > > I should also emphasize that Alex indicated that they don't expect this
> > to
> > > impact WLM-related grants (because they expect teams to request funding
> > > much
> > > later in the process
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikilovesmonuments/2014-December/007603.html
> > > >
> > > - not before june/july, an assumption I disagree with), and she also
> > > suggested the closing was not as hard as it sounds, as she's willing to
> > > discuss problems (she emphasized this in her email).
> > >
> > > I don't want to reiterate all discussions about whether gendergap is
> the
> > > problem or a symptom (we have many gaps in our community, of which the
> > > gender gap is the most visible and easiest to measure), but I do feel
> > > uncomfortable with this campaign. I have asked around a bit in the past
> > > week and only received negative feedback on the campaign - with people
> > > confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community
> support
> > > (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for
> gendergap-related
> > > projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or
> > jealousy. I
> > > called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not
> > about
> > > actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> > > about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> > > people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> > > related event.
> > >
> > > What I also fear, is that people will just give their request a tiny
> bit
> > of
> > > 'gendergap'-paint, make up some way how they help reduce it (which is
> > > basically true for almost any outreach event aiming at a group with
> less
> > > than 90% men - i.e. almost any group aside from Wikipedia or catholic
> > > priests). I'm confident that most of our outreach projects, including
> > Wiki
> > > Loves Monuments, could claim to reach relatively more women than the
> > editor
> > > population contains. But I am very unhappy if we start distributing
> > grants
> > > on such shaky grounds - those projects often are much stronger in
> general
> > > editor retention, which happens to be relatively more women. The focus
> of
> > > the projects would be unnaturally shifted in the grant request compared
> > to
> > > the actual activities.
> > >
> > > Again, I hope that the decision makers involved here will reconsider
> the
> > > way this has been shaped, and frame it more in a positive way, focusing
> > on
> > > supporting efforts in a thematic direction, rather than discouraging
> > other
> > > thematic directions. And as I have said elsewhere: I would be similarly
> > > against this, with any other theme - I wouldn't be able to stand the
> idea
> > > to focus entirely on photo-events only for three months...
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Lodewijk
> > >
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jens Best <jens.best@wikimedia.de>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think some clarification is needed by people who are in charge for
> > the
> > > > grantmaking process. There is a difference between "shutting down the
> > > > grantmaking process (PEG) and (IEG) for three full months" and
> adding a
> > > > voluntary gendergap "theme" to a project to get better funding
> chances.
> > > >
> > > > So I really would like to see some clarifications about these leaked
> > > plans
> > > > before having a propably heated debate about it.
> > > >
> > > > Needless to say that adding ideologically driven must-haves to a
> > general
> > > > grantmaking process which only purpose is to serve the voluntary work
> > on
> > > a
> > > > supposed-to-be-free encyclopedia would leave a disturbing impression
> on
> > > > many people.
> > > >
> > > > best regards
> > > >
> > > > Jens Best
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2015-01-03 15:46 GMT+01:00 Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > > There are multiple ways in how to define the Gendergap, in this
> case
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > about female participation.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do think it is a problem that the number of female participants
> is
> > > > > dramatically lower than those of male contributors, but still this
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > > give any good reason to exclude good projects who are not
> particular
> > > > aiming
> > > > > for female contributors.
> > > > >
> > > > > WMF wants to solve the Gendergap by excluding good other projects.
> > That
> > > > is
> > > > > a very bad situation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Trying to solve the Gendergap by enlarging the Community Gap.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bad idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2015-01-03 15:33 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > > > > female-related topics. The Dutch Wikipedia has a severe gap with
> > only
> > > > 6%
> > > > > > female participation. I would say this is a pretty urgent problem
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > Dutch and Flemish community, so I was very glad to see this as a
> > main
> > > > > theme
> > > > > > for the coming three months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:17 PM, Romaine Wiki <
> > romaine.wiki@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello Jane,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sorry, but I think you miss the problem here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As I said before, I am fine with more projects that improve the
> > > > > coverage
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > so-called female topics, but not if this is damaging the
> projects
> > > > which
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > not aim for such.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I hope this campaign in this form is cancelled and witdrawn and
> > > that
> > > > > > never
> > > > > > > ever such situation appears again. This way of working is
> > damaging
> > > > the
> > > > > > > trust in WMF, discouraging many volunteers, worsening projects,
> > > etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having a Gendergap campaign in this form is NOT in line with
> the
> > > > vision
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > Wikimedia movement has.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The current campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully
> many,
> > > > > targeted
> > > > > > > at the community in order to generate themed proposals.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If it was really targeted at the Wikimedia community, it would
> > not
> > > > have
> > > > > > > excluded other projects.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I propose everyone to refuse to take part in this as this is a
> > move
> > > > in
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > wrong direction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And how WLM to attract more female particpation? By having a
> > > special
> > > > > > > category for pink buildings.
> > > > > > > Under this condition, a question as such can't be taken
> > seriously.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2015-01-03 14:58 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a member of the IEG committee I am happy to say that there
> > is
> > > no
> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > panic. WLM is highly successful project and no one is talking
> > > about
> > > > > > > > shutting it down, or any other project for that matter. The
> > > current
> > > > > > > > campaign is scheduled to be one of hopefully many, targeted
> at
> > > the
> > > > > > > > community in order to generate themed proposals. The current
> > > growth
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > highly diverse and inspirational proposals takes increasingly
> > > more
> > > > > > energy
> > > > > > > > to manage, judge, and maintain. By introducing a three-month
> > long
> > > > > > theme,
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > is hoped that the following will occur:
> > > > > > > > 1) Grant committee members in their voluntary role as
> proposal
> > > > > > reviewers
> > > > > > > > and community sponsors will experience less burn-out in
> > managing
> > > > > > > proposals
> > > > > > > > as their will be more cross pollination per cohort of
> proposers
> > > and
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > > > 2) A targeted campaign to attract proposals will enable
> easier
> > > > > > > translation
> > > > > > > > across projects if the target audience can be identified in
> > > advance
> > > > > > > > 3) A targeted campaign will attract more volunteer committee
> > > > members
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > manage proposals, hopefully attracting local experts in
> various
> > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Gendergap will be the first theme. I think it's a great
> > idea!
> > > > How
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > WLM attract more female participation? Any ideas?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 11:26 AM, Romaine Wiki <
> > > > > romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The
> > > grant
> > > > > > making
> > > > > > > > > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for
> > Project
> > > > and
> > > > > > > Event
> > > > > > > > > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for
> three
> > > > full
> > > > > > > > months!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They have decided that they want to focus only on a
> specific
> > > > > > strategic
> > > > > > > > > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects
> > are
> > > > > > refused
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > 3 months (February-April).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to
> me.
> > > > Having
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to
> me
> > > as
> > > > > > such,
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But
> > that
> > > > > does
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other
> > > projects
> > > > > > should
> > > > > > > > > become the victim of other projects.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are
> > > > currently
> > > > > > > > working
> > > > > > > > > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and
> > April.
> > > > Good
> > > > > > > > > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those
> are
> > > less
> > > > > > > > > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this
> > > sounds
> > > > > as a
> > > > > > > > > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers
> in
> > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > projects.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2
> > weeks
> > > > > before
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke,
> > sadly
> > > > it
> > > > > > > isn't)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still
> > > unpaid!
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the
> time
> > to
> > > > > > > > communicate
> > > > > > > > > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time
> to
> > > > come
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project
> in
> > > > just
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > couple
> > > > > > > > > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in
> > getting a
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the
> > period
> > > > > > > indicates
> > > > > > > > > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki
> Loves
> > > > > > Monuments
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better
> > > documentation
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide,
> > > > recognised
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > > > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World
> Records.
> > > We
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good
> > > > stable
> > > > > > plan
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush.
> And
> > > yes
> > > > we
> > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > start in January/February or it will be too late to
> organize
> > it
> > > > > > > properly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the
> > > > > > international
> > > > > > > > team
> > > > > > > > > recommend all the national teams to start in
> > January/February,
> > > to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > proper organisation together with various local partners
> and
> > > > > > sponsors,
> > > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to
> > > > > organize
> > > > > > > Wiki
> > > > > > > > > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and
> > > > sponsors.
> > > > > We
> > > > > > > > > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get
> such
> > > > done.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian
> > > subjects
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > relatively less and worse described on the various
> > Wikipedias.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This shutting down results in:
> > > > > > > > > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit
> > good
> > > > > > project
> > > > > > > > > proposals.
> > > > > > > > > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers
> > the
> > > > > > quality
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > the plans.
> > > > > > > > > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects,
> for
> > > no
> > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > reason.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not
> > > > frustrating
> > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap
> > > > > project:
> > > > > > > > great
> > > > > > > > > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to
> > make
> > > a
> > > > > > > > > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the
> > > > shutting
> > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down
> is a
> > > bad
> > > > > > idea.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the
> > Community
> > > > Gap.
> > > > > > > That
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It
> > is
> > > > not
> > > > > > new,
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the
> drama
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with
> the
> > > > Visual
> > > > > > > > Editor
> > > > > > > > > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.)
> > > > (Maybe
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > gap
> > > > > > > > > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the
> > world,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > world is larger. We have many people around the world who
> are
> > > > > speak a
> > > > > > > > > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide
> > community
> > > > well
> > > > > > > > > enough.)
> > > > > > > > > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with
> great
> > > > > > projects
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > make every single human being freely share in the sum of
> all
> > > > human
> > > > > > > > > knowledge!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Romaine
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > > >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
It is perfectly defined, it only matters which point of view you take.

The Wikimedia movement consists out of people, projects and content. There
is less content about so-called female topics. There seem to be less
projects that specifically cover those so-called female topics. And there
are less female contributors. All three of these views are related with
each other.

And as I sometimes write about those so-called female topics, I notice it
is more difficult to write neutral about those topics and therefore harder
to write about.

Further, I must say that I personally do not feel any need to disclose my
gender, even while a lot of you have met me. Maybe it is different on some
wikis, but generally I have the impression that many users do not want to
disclose it either. So the percentage is less well defined, but I do think
the m/f spread is far from balanced.
But something what seems not to be defined is what those so-called female
topics exactly are. And second, how large these subjects combined are in
the outside world, because wanting them to be 50-50 is not fair if the
subjects are 20-80 spread. Or maybe there are gender neutral topics also.

So yes, there are certainly things that are not defined, but what the
gendergap is, seems to be defined.

Romaine


2015-01-03 16:48 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:

> I find it interesting to discover via this conversation that it has not
> been defined yet!
>
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > female-related topics.
> > >
> >
> > I would say it is both, but in either case this would be important to
> > define if that is the criteria on which to solicit proposals. (The vision
> > of Wikimedia is to share the sum of all human knowledge, so from that
> > standpoint the end is to close the gap in coverage, diversity in the
> > editorship is a very important means to it.)
> >
> > In any case, experimentation with the grants programme is probably for
> the
> > benefit of the community, but so is reliability and predictability. If
> the
> > original assumptions are clear, announcing a major policy change for the
> > grants programme only with 3 weeks of planned lead time seems to go
> againts
> > those latter expectations unfortunately.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bence
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Hei,

5 cents: would it make a difference if the Wiki Loves Monuments / Art project plans (and others) will explicitly promise that, for instance, the gender (f/m) balance of the participants (n 500) will be 40/60 and +50% of them will be new editors?

This would be meet the strategic objectives.

-Teemu

On Sat Jan 03 2015 05:27:47 GMT-0500 (COT), Romaine Wiki wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full months!
>
> They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused for
> 3 months (February-April).
>
> Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> become the victim of other projects.
>
> This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently working
> on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing projects.
>
> And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before that
> period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
>
> To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to communicate
> well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up with
> a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a couple
> of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
>
> For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments in
> 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan to
> be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need to
> start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
>
> Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international team
> recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors, but
> now all these teams are delayed for three months.
>
> And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
>
> By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
>
>
> This shutting down results in:
> * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> proposals.
> * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality of
> the plans.
> * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> reason.
>
> Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> WMF: stop this negative campaign!
>
>
> And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project: great
> you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
>
>
> It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That is
> the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new, it
> exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual Editor
> in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the gap
> is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> enough.)
> Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
>
> For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects that
> make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> knowledge!!
>
> Romaine
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

--
Sent from my Jolla
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Nope. Whether or not lots and lots of female-related content is generated
and by whom, the participation factor is crucial. Without the women, there
is no female perspective, period. And as far as gender measurement goes,
even if you count all the ones who declined to specify their gender, the
Dutch Wikipedia still comes up as less than 10% female.

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Romaine Wiki <romaine.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is perfectly defined, it only matters which point of view you take.
>
> The Wikimedia movement consists out of people, projects and content. There
> is less content about so-called female topics. There seem to be less
> projects that specifically cover those so-called female topics. And there
> are less female contributors. All three of these views are related with
> each other.
>
> And as I sometimes write about those so-called female topics, I notice it
> is more difficult to write neutral about those topics and therefore harder
> to write about.
>
> Further, I must say that I personally do not feel any need to disclose my
> gender, even while a lot of you have met me. Maybe it is different on some
> wikis, but generally I have the impression that many users do not want to
> disclose it either. So the percentage is less well defined, but I do think
> the m/f spread is far from balanced.
> But something what seems not to be defined is what those so-called female
> topics exactly are. And second, how large these subjects combined are in
> the outside world, because wanting them to be 50-50 is not fair if the
> subjects are 20-80 spread. Or maybe there are gender neutral topics also.
>
> So yes, there are certainly things that are not defined, but what the
> gendergap is, seems to be defined.
>
> Romaine
>
>
> 2015-01-03 16:48 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>:
>
> > I find it interesting to discover via this conversation that it has not
> > been defined yet!
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Bence Damokos <bdamokos@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 3:33 PM, Jane Darnell <jane023@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nope. Gendergap is about the gap in female participation, not in
> > > > female-related topics.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I would say it is both, but in either case this would be important to
> > > define if that is the criteria on which to solicit proposals. (The
> vision
> > > of Wikimedia is to share the sum of all human knowledge, so from that
> > > standpoint the end is to close the gap in coverage, diversity in the
> > > editorship is a very important means to it.)
> > >
> > > In any case, experimentation with the grants programme is probably for
> > the
> > > benefit of the community, but so is reliability and predictability. If
> > the
> > > original assumptions are clear, announcing a major policy change for
> the
> > > grants programme only with 3 weeks of planned lead time seems to go
> > againts
> > > those latter expectations unfortunately.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Bence
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Teemu,
Of course! Not only that, but I think that an internal survey already shows
that WLM attracts a higher percentage of female contributors than any other
project that measured it. Don't assume by the subject heading of this
thread that any WLM project is being shut down. In fact, nothing is being
shut down.
Jane

On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Leinonen Teemu <teemu.leinonen@aalto.fi>
wrote:

> Hei,
>
> 5 cents: would it make a difference if the Wiki Loves Monuments / Art
> project plans (and others) will explicitly promise that, for instance, the
> gender (f/m) balance of the participants (n 500) will be 40/60 and +50% of
> them will be new editors?
>
> This would be meet the strategic objectives.
>
> -Teemu
>
> On Sat Jan 03 2015 05:27:47 GMT-0500 (COT), Romaine Wiki wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Some disturbing news entered my mailbox the past days. The grant making
> > team is going to shut down the grantmaking process for Project and Event
> > Grants (PEG) and Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) for three full
> months!
> >
> > They have decided that they want to focus only on a specific strategic
> > priority: the gender gap, and that all other good projects are refused
> for
> > 3 months (February-April).
> >
> > Having more attention to a strategic priority is fine to me. Having more
> > attention to the problem of the gender gap, sounds good to me as such, we
> > can use much more projects and content in those areas. But that does not
> > mean that many many volunteers who are organizing other projects should
> > become the victim of other projects.
> >
> > This is a negative signal to all those volunteers who are currently
> working
> > on project plans to be submitted in February, March and April. Good
> > projects to be ignored, just because the WMF think those are less
> > important. They say this is a positive campaign, but this sounds as a
> > negative campaign to me. This discourages many volunteers in doing
> projects.
> >
> > And even worse: this is only to be generally announced 2 weeks before
> that
> > period of shutting down starts! (this sounds like a joke, sadly it isn't)
> >
> > To organize a good project volunteers (yes, we are still unpaid! and
> > organize these projects in our spare time!) we need the time to
> communicate
> > well with all our partners and sponsors, and need the time to come up
> with
> > a good project plan with a stable basis. Rushing a project in just a
> couple
> > of weeks time is very unpleasant and does not help in getting a good
> > quality project. And announcing it two weeks before the period indicates
> > that organizers aren't taken seriously (enough).
> >
> > For example, we are currently planning to organize Wiki Loves Monuments
> in
> > 2015 again, the world wide contest to have a better documentation and
> > better display of all the cultural monuments worldwide, recognised as
> > largest photo contest in the world by Guinness World Records. We are
> > currently working on forming a team and want to have a good stable plan
> to
> > be submitted within some weeks, but now we need to rush. And yes we need
> to
> > start in January/February or it will be too late to organize it properly.
> >
> > Also all the national teams of Wiki Loves Monuments, the international
> team
> > recommend all the national teams to start in January/February, to have a
> > proper organisation together with various local partners and sponsors,
> but
> > now all these teams are delayed for three months.
> >
> > And a personal project of mine in Belgium, I am planning to organize Wiki
> > Loves Art in Belgium, together with various partners and sponsors. We
> > intent to start in February, but now have to rush to get such done.
> >
> > By the way: did you know there is a Belgium Gap? Belgian subjects are
> > relatively less and worse described on the various Wikipedias.
> >
> >
> > This shutting down results in:
> > * Discouraging many volunteers who are planning to submit good project
> > proposals.
> > * Having volunteers rushed with project plans, which lowers the quality
> of
> > the plans.
> > * Having volunteers being late and delayed with projects, for no good
> > reason.
> >
> > Grantmaking is intented to support the communities, not frustrating them.
> > WMF: stop this negative campaign!
> >
> >
> > And for all project teams who want to organize a gender gap project:
> great
> > you organize this, it is very very welcome! But I like to make a
> > suggestion: submit the proposal on the first day after the shutting down
> > period to give a strong signal to WMF that shutting down is a bad idea.
> >
> >
> > It is time for a new strategic priority: closing the Community Gap. That
> is
> > the gap between WMF and the local communities worldwide. It is not new,
> it
> > exists for many years already. (It resulted also in the drama of the
> > situation around the Mediaviewer in 2014, the drama with the Visual
> Editor
> > in 2013, etc. in what WMF didn't sense well the community.) (Maybe the
> gap
> > is less between WMF and the English speaking part of the world, but the
> > world is larger. We have many people around the world who are speak a
> > different language. WMF is not sensing the worldwide community well
> > enough.)
> > Finally we should do more about this Community Gap.
> >
> > For those celebrating: I wish you a happy new year with great projects
> that
> > make every single human being freely share in the sum of all human
> > knowledge!!
> >
> > Romaine
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> --
> Sent from my Jolla
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Like Bence, I would be interested to see how this kind of experiment in WMF
grantmaking works out. And also like him I would be a little surprised if
something like this is implemented with no notice period.

A couple of responses to Lodewijk's post;


> with people
> confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community support
> (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for gendergap-related
> projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or jealousy.


Out of interest, were any of these people doing anything at all to support
the reduction of the gender gap in the first place? ;)



> I
> called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not about
> actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> related event.
>

Equally, if you have limited resources, prioritising one thing means
reducing attention to something else. So saying "we shouldn't work on the
gender gap if anything else gets less atention as a result" is logically
equivalent to saying "We shouldn't work on the gender gap".

Regards,

Chris
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF is shutting down grantmaking for good projects for 3 months for no reason [ In reply to ]
Answering to Teemu and Chris:

I do think that the for Wiki Loves Monuments and Wiki Loves Art it is safe
to claim that if we organize it the way we would always do, it would still
tip the gender balance in our community a little more to the female side.
However, I disagree that this should be a main consideration, because I
think that would be true for so many outreach projects. Focusing on that
would be a pity and a distraction imho. Also, for most participants we
don't know the gender, and we don't want to know the gender (because asking
for it alone can scare people away) - except for a sample of them, who
happen to answer the survey afterwards. All data on that is quite shaky.

If necessary, I could easily make a case why WLM is a wonderful gendergap
project - the point is that I don't want volunteers to waste their time on
making such cases, but rather let them be innovative, come up with new
ideas instead of rebranding existing ideas on something like the gendergap.
My problems are more fundamental than 'I can't get money for my specific
project'.

So Chris: yes, these people do a lot for reducing the gender gap in our
projects. Also, Wikimedia organizers tend to hop between projects - their
next might be more focused on a topic that is popular with women, if their
current idea isn't yet. Drawing them into a topic in a positive way (what
we do is cool! Join us!) tends to be more successful than telling them they
are not allowed to do other stuff (we won't fund you at all unless you do
this specific theme).

Prioritisation sounds great, but that only works that way if you have one
clearly defined pool of resources, that you can actually control. What do
you think is the major bottle neck in organizing activities in the
Wikimedia movement? In my experience, that is not money, or even WMF staff
capacity (even though it is a limiting factor sometimes), but the primary
bottle neck is volunteer organizers (or editors). And volunteer time is not
a resource you can easily 'control'. If you want to influence it, the most
effective way is by persuading the volunteers why another angle is more
interesting, more fun, more effective.

Best,
Lodewijk



On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Chris Keating <chriskeatingwiki@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Like Bence, I would be interested to see how this kind of experiment in WMF
> grantmaking works out. And also like him I would be a little surprised if
> something like this is implemented with no notice period.
>
> A couple of responses to Lodewijk's post;
>
>
> > with people
> > confirming my fear that this will likely undermine the community support
> > (or at least support by the 'organizing community') for gendergap-related
> > projects in general - be it out of frustration, compensation or jealousy.
>
>
> Out of interest, were any of these people doing anything at all to support
> the reduction of the gender gap in the first place? ;)
>
>
>
> > I
> > called it a 'negative campaign' in my emails because the focus is not
> about
> > actively boosting one type of requests (which is the claim), but rather
> > about making it harder to do something unrelated to it in the hope that
> > people instead will choose for the easy way, and organize a gendergap
> > related event.
> >
>
> Equally, if you have limited resources, prioritising one thing means
> reducing attention to something else. So saying "we shouldn't work on the
> gender gap if anything else gets less atention as a result" is logically
> equivalent to saying "We shouldn't work on the gender gap".
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
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