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[Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics
Hi folks,

We are the Finance Fellows, a multicultural team consisting of 4 young
professionals. We are happy to introduce a 6-month movement-wide project
that focuses on the consistency of how we operate, which is explained
further in this announcement.

*But here's some information about us*:

Arda [User:Melmas_(WMF)] <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Melmas_(WMF)> is
from Turkey. He holds a BA in Economics.


Lene [User:Lgillis_(WMF)]
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lgillis_(WMF)> is from Belgium. She
holds a Master's degree in Applied Economics and a Master's degree in
Business Communication.

Seyi [User:Oolukoya_(WMF)]
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)> is from Nigeria. She
holds a Master's in International Business and a BSc in Economics.

Walter [User:Wagsegura_(WMF)]
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wagsegura_(WMF)> is from Nicaragua.
He holds a BA in Applied Economics.

*About the project "Movement-wide financial report"*

Driven by the Wikimedia Foundation's guiding principles of transparency and
accountability, our goal is to gather data and develop systematic metrics
in order to provide a better understanding of financial statements. The aim
is to help make financial data and statements more consistent and
comparable across all Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the
Wikimedia Foundation, to the benefit of the whole movement.

The idea of this project comes from the WMF Board of Trustee's Audit
Committee and is supported by the Wikimedia Foundation. An initial quantitative
analysis of Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations
<https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Chapters_in_Numbers>
demonstrated
at Wikimania 2013 by Michal Buczyński (User:Aegis Maelstrom)
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aegis_Maelstrom>, highlighted the
importance of meaningful, obtainable and unified data.

The Finance Fellows have been formed by WMF to spearhead this project. The
intention of this project is to enable Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic
Organizations to benchmark activities and costs in a consistent way. We
will begin by gathering comparable quantitative financial data about
Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations. Our findings will later be
released movement-wide, on Meta-Wiki.

Please note that this is not an audit process. We are simply collecting the
data and developing global metrics. The metric is an objective measurement
that will enable data to be consistent, meaningful and comparable among the
Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation.

We will build on existing data sets and reach out to Chapters and Thematic
Organizations if further information is required. After processing the
gathered information, we will confirm the data with each organization.

In the long run, we envision that this project could be replicated
annually. In this attempt to enable Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic
Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation to help make the movement's
financial data more consistent, we rely on the data provided by the
organizations. We believe that there is enough data available to make a new
attempt on capturing the movement's finances as a whole.

A meta page <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
was
created for the project, in order to make the information accessible to
everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We strongly
encourage you to share with us what types of additional information is
desired.

And of course: This is all an experiment! If it does not work, we will try
to apply a modified 'agile' process by iterating, repeating, and trying
again based on the feedback we are getting. If this does not seem right, or
if it appears we are missing something obvious, please let us know!

Thank you,

WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Could you please also add the names of your normal (aka volunteer)
accounts? :)
Am 30.10.2014 00:16 schrieb "Michael Guss" <mguss@wikimedia.org>:

> Hi folks,
>
> We are the Finance Fellows, a multicultural team consisting of 4 young
> professionals. We are happy to introduce a 6-month movement-wide project
> that focuses on the consistency of how we operate, which is explained
> further in this announcement.
>
> *But here's some information about us*:
>
> Arda [User:Melmas_(WMF)] <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Melmas_(WMF)> is
> from Turkey. He holds a BA in Economics.
>
>
> Lene [User:Lgillis_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lgillis_(WMF)> is from Belgium. She
> holds a Master's degree in Applied Economics and a Master's degree in
> Business Communication.
>
> Seyi [User:Oolukoya_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)> is from Nigeria. She
> holds a Master's in International Business and a BSc in Economics.
>
> Walter [User:Wagsegura_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wagsegura_(WMF)> is from Nicaragua.
> He holds a BA in Applied Economics.
>
> *About the project "Movement-wide financial report"*
>
> Driven by the Wikimedia Foundation's guiding principles of transparency and
> accountability, our goal is to gather data and develop systematic metrics
> in order to provide a better understanding of financial statements. The aim
> is to help make financial data and statements more consistent and
> comparable across all Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation, to the benefit of the whole movement.
>
> The idea of this project comes from the WMF Board of Trustee's Audit
> Committee and is supported by the Wikimedia Foundation. An initial
> quantitative
> analysis of Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations
> <https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Chapters_in_Numbers>
> demonstrated
> at Wikimania 2013 by Michal Buczyński (User:Aegis Maelstrom)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aegis_Maelstrom>, highlighted the
> importance of meaningful, obtainable and unified data.
>
> The Finance Fellows have been formed by WMF to spearhead this project. The
> intention of this project is to enable Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations to benchmark activities and costs in a consistent way. We
> will begin by gathering comparable quantitative financial data about
> Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations. Our findings will later be
> released movement-wide, on Meta-Wiki.
>
> Please note that this is not an audit process. We are simply collecting the
> data and developing global metrics. The metric is an objective measurement
> that will enable data to be consistent, meaningful and comparable among the
> Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> We will build on existing data sets and reach out to Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations if further information is required. After processing the
> gathered information, we will confirm the data with each organization.
>
> In the long run, we envision that this project could be replicated
> annually. In this attempt to enable Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic
> Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation to help make the movement's
> financial data more consistent, we rely on the data provided by the
> organizations. We believe that there is enough data available to make a new
> attempt on capturing the movement's finances as a whole.
>
> A meta page <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
> was
> created for the project, in order to make the information accessible to
> everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We strongly
> encourage you to share with us what types of additional information is
> desired.
>
> And of course: This is all an experiment! If it does not work, we will try
> to apply a modified 'agile' process by iterating, repeating, and trying
> again based on the feedback we are getting. If this does not seem right, or
> if it appears we are missing something obvious, please let us know!
>
> Thank you,
>
> WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Here's mine:

Usuario:Wa17gs <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuario:Wa17gs>

Walter Gomez Segura
*Finance Fellow*
*149 New Montgomery St., San Francisco, CA., 94105*
www.wikimediafoundation.org
wagsegura@wikimedia.org


On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 6:19 PM, MF-Warburg <mfwarburg@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Could you please also add the names of your normal (aka volunteer)
> accounts? :)
> Am 30.10.2014 00:16 schrieb "Michael Guss" <mguss@wikimedia.org>:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > We are the Finance Fellows, a multicultural team consisting of 4 young
> > professionals. We are happy to introduce a 6-month movement-wide project
> > that focuses on the consistency of how we operate, which is explained
> > further in this announcement.
> >
> > *But here's some information about us*:
> >
> > Arda [User:Melmas_(WMF)] <
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Melmas_(WMF)> is
> > from Turkey. He holds a BA in Economics.
> >
> >
> > Lene [User:Lgillis_(WMF)]
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lgillis_(WMF)> is from Belgium.
> She
> > holds a Master's degree in Applied Economics and a Master's degree in
> > Business Communication.
> >
> > Seyi [User:Oolukoya_(WMF)]
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)> is from Nigeria.
> She
> > holds a Master's in International Business and a BSc in Economics.
> >
> > Walter [User:Wagsegura_(WMF)]
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wagsegura_(WMF)> is from
> Nicaragua.
> > He holds a BA in Applied Economics.
> >
> > *About the project "Movement-wide financial report"*
> >
> > Driven by the Wikimedia Foundation's guiding principles of transparency
> and
> > accountability, our goal is to gather data and develop systematic metrics
> > in order to provide a better understanding of financial statements. The
> aim
> > is to help make financial data and statements more consistent and
> > comparable across all Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the
> > Wikimedia Foundation, to the benefit of the whole movement.
> >
> > The idea of this project comes from the WMF Board of Trustee's Audit
> > Committee and is supported by the Wikimedia Foundation. An initial
> > quantitative
> > analysis of Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations
> > <
> https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Chapters_in_Numbers>
> > demonstrated
> > at Wikimania 2013 by Michal Buczyński (User:Aegis Maelstrom)
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aegis_Maelstrom>, highlighted the
> > importance of meaningful, obtainable and unified data.
> >
> > The Finance Fellows have been formed by WMF to spearhead this project.
> The
> > intention of this project is to enable Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic
> > Organizations to benchmark activities and costs in a consistent way. We
> > will begin by gathering comparable quantitative financial data about
> > Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations. Our findings will later be
> > released movement-wide, on Meta-Wiki.
> >
> > Please note that this is not an audit process. We are simply collecting
> the
> > data and developing global metrics. The metric is an objective
> measurement
> > that will enable data to be consistent, meaningful and comparable among
> the
> > Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
> >
> > We will build on existing data sets and reach out to Chapters and
> Thematic
> > Organizations if further information is required. After processing the
> > gathered information, we will confirm the data with each organization.
> >
> > In the long run, we envision that this project could be replicated
> > annually. In this attempt to enable Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic
> > Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation to help make the movement's
> > financial data more consistent, we rely on the data provided by the
> > organizations. We believe that there is enough data available to make a
> new
> > attempt on capturing the movement's finances as a whole.
> >
> > A meta page <
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
> > was
> > created for the project, in order to make the information accessible to
> > everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We
> strongly
> > encourage you to share with us what types of additional information is
> > desired.
> >
> > And of course: This is all an experiment! If it does not work, we will
> try
> > to apply a modified 'agile' process by iterating, repeating, and trying
> > again based on the feedback we are getting. If this does not seem right,
> or
> > if it appears we are missing something obvious, please let us know!
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hi Michael!

This is a bit of a surprise, if I am honest! I applaud the idea but it has
come out of the blue and I worry that this extra layer of reporting will
increase overheads here - when our overheads are already under scrutiny. I
have a few preliminary questions:

- Do you have an idea of how much work will be required by movement orgs
for this? I worry that your ideal target of 20 January won't be met, as we
don't have the resources to help you revalidate your data at that point of
our year. December is difficult, as the FDC figures are released then -
which is when we need to construct our final budget for next year.
January/February is also difficult, as all our staff are already pre-booked
working on our financial year end at 31 January - which is also an FDC
quarter end - so there's a lot of work to be done!
- Has anyone contacted movement orgs already, perhaps a few months ago?
If so, I think I've missed the communication - could you resend it to me?
- Will you need to talk to treasurers? If so, please let us know as far
in advance as you can so we can book dates for meetings!
- What happens if movement orgs do not have time to check your data?
Will you go ahead with "unvalidated" data in your report, or will you be
able to move your timeline to fit in with ours?
- How much input will chapters have in the process? Who will have the
"final say" in the comparisons - presumably the WMF?

All the best,

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 29 October 2014 23:15, Michael Guss <mguss@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> We are the Finance Fellows, a multicultural team consisting of 4 young
> professionals. We are happy to introduce a 6-month movement-wide project
> that focuses on the consistency of how we operate, which is explained
> further in this announcement.
>
> *But here's some information about us*:
>
> Arda [User:Melmas_(WMF)] <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Melmas_(WMF)> is
> from Turkey. He holds a BA in Economics.
>
>
> Lene [User:Lgillis_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lgillis_(WMF)> is from Belgium. She
> holds a Master's degree in Applied Economics and a Master's degree in
> Business Communication.
>
> Seyi [User:Oolukoya_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)> is from Nigeria. She
> holds a Master's in International Business and a BSc in Economics.
>
> Walter [User:Wagsegura_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wagsegura_(WMF)> is from Nicaragua.
> He holds a BA in Applied Economics.
>
> *About the project "Movement-wide financial report"*
>
> Driven by the Wikimedia Foundation's guiding principles of transparency and
> accountability, our goal is to gather data and develop systematic metrics
> in order to provide a better understanding of financial statements. The aim
> is to help make financial data and statements more consistent and
> comparable across all Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation, to the benefit of the whole movement.
>
> The idea of this project comes from the WMF Board of Trustee's Audit
> Committee and is supported by the Wikimedia Foundation. An initial
> quantitative
> analysis of Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations
> <https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Chapters_in_Numbers>
> demonstrated
> at Wikimania 2013 by Michal Buczyński (User:Aegis Maelstrom)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aegis_Maelstrom>, highlighted the
> importance of meaningful, obtainable and unified data.
>
> The Finance Fellows have been formed by WMF to spearhead this project. The
> intention of this project is to enable Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations to benchmark activities and costs in a consistent way. We
> will begin by gathering comparable quantitative financial data about
> Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations. Our findings will later be
> released movement-wide, on Meta-Wiki.
>
> Please note that this is not an audit process. We are simply collecting the
> data and developing global metrics. The metric is an objective measurement
> that will enable data to be consistent, meaningful and comparable among the
> Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> We will build on existing data sets and reach out to Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations if further information is required. After processing the
> gathered information, we will confirm the data with each organization.
>
> In the long run, we envision that this project could be replicated
> annually. In this attempt to enable Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic
> Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation to help make the movement's
> financial data more consistent, we rely on the data provided by the
> organizations. We believe that there is enough data available to make a new
> attempt on capturing the movement's finances as a whole.
>
> A meta page <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
> was
> created for the project, in order to make the information accessible to
> everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We strongly
> encourage you to share with us what types of additional information is
> desired.
>
> And of course: This is all an experiment! If it does not work, we will try
> to apply a modified 'agile' process by iterating, repeating, and trying
> again based on the feedback we are getting. If this does not seem right, or
> if it appears we are missing something obvious, please let us know!
>
> Thank you,
>
> WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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[Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency and
good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to make
things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for smaller
chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact person!

But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group of global
operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...

I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the project
too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working already for
two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been allocated to
each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process was
being created before it was announced today - so they were able to make any
other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of paperwork?

Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time needed to
comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with other
WMF-compliance paperwork?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
[3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7

wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata



--
wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hello WMF Finance Fellows and welcome to the wikimedia movement,

I'm pleased to see this project and look forward to following your work.

I left a comment/question of the talk page. Please move it to the main page
if you think it is more appropriate.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement-wide_Financial_Report

I'll look for the response on meta.

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at Cochrane Collaboration

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Michael Guss <mguss@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> We are the Finance Fellows, a multicultural team consisting of 4 young
> professionals. We are happy to introduce a 6-month movement-wide project
> that focuses on the consistency of how we operate, which is explained
> further in this announcement.
>
> *But here's some information about us*:
>
> Arda [User:Melmas_(WMF)] <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Melmas_(WMF)> is
> from Turkey. He holds a BA in Economics.
>
>
> Lene [User:Lgillis_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Lgillis_(WMF)> is from Belgium. She
> holds a Master's degree in Applied Economics and a Master's degree in
> Business Communication.
>
> Seyi [User:Oolukoya_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)> is from Nigeria. She
> holds a Master's in International Business and a BSc in Economics.
>
> Walter [User:Wagsegura_(WMF)]
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wagsegura_(WMF)> is from Nicaragua.
> He holds a BA in Applied Economics.
>
> *About the project "Movement-wide financial report"*
>
> Driven by the Wikimedia Foundation's guiding principles of transparency and
> accountability, our goal is to gather data and develop systematic metrics
> in order to provide a better understanding of financial statements. The aim
> is to help make financial data and statements more consistent and
> comparable across all Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the
> Wikimedia Foundation, to the benefit of the whole movement.
>
> The idea of this project comes from the WMF Board of Trustee's Audit
> Committee and is supported by the Wikimedia Foundation. An initial
> quantitative
> analysis of Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations
> <https://wikimania2013.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Chapters_in_Numbers>
> demonstrated
> at Wikimania 2013 by Michal Buczyński (User:Aegis Maelstrom)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aegis_Maelstrom>, highlighted the
> importance of meaningful, obtainable and unified data.
>
> The Finance Fellows have been formed by WMF to spearhead this project. The
> intention of this project is to enable Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations to benchmark activities and costs in a consistent way. We
> will begin by gathering comparable quantitative financial data about
> Wikimedia Chapters and Thematic Organizations. Our findings will later be
> released movement-wide, on Meta-Wiki.
>
> Please note that this is not an audit process. We are simply collecting the
> data and developing global metrics. The metric is an objective measurement
> that will enable data to be consistent, meaningful and comparable among the
> Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> We will build on existing data sets and reach out to Chapters and Thematic
> Organizations if further information is required. After processing the
> gathered information, we will confirm the data with each organization.
>
> In the long run, we envision that this project could be replicated
> annually. In this attempt to enable Wikimedia Chapters, Thematic
> Organizations, and the Wikimedia Foundation to help make the movement's
> financial data more consistent, we rely on the data provided by the
> organizations. We believe that there is enough data available to make a new
> attempt on capturing the movement's finances as a whole.
>
> A meta page <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
> was
> created for the project, in order to make the information accessible to
> everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We strongly
> encourage you to share with us what types of additional information is
> desired.
>
> And of course: This is all an experiment! If it does not work, we will try
> to apply a modified 'agile' process by iterating, repeating, and trying
> again based on the feedback we are getting. If this does not seem right, or
> if it appears we are missing something obvious, please let us know!
>
> Thank you,
>
> WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Liam:

My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to, even
inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the abilities of our
community and I know from my meetings with members of our community how
smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the Wikimedia
movement.


I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will be
working from data as presented by the movement entities. The project has
been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data provided by
movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to movement
entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this project.
If this not the case, please let me know.

Best regards,

Garfield

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency and
> good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to make
> things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for smaller
> chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact person!
>
> But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group of global
> operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
>
> I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the project
> too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working already for
> two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been allocated to
> each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process was
> being created before it was announced today - so they were able to make any
> other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of paperwork?
>
> Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time needed to
> comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with other
> WMF-compliance paperwork?
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
>
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
>
> --
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Thank you Garfield for your quick reply - and with welcome news in it. I am
heartened to see your clarification/confirmation that this project is
specifically intending to re-use existing documentation and not to increase
the "red tape" or compliance-requirements of chapters. Also, as mentioned
in my first email, I would like to reiterate my support for the idea that
(especially smaller/newer) chapters have a dedicated contact person. This
will be very helpful for many.

On the other note I raised, could you/anyone also address whether the
chapters had prior-awareness of this new project's existence or planned
creation before this email announcement?

On Friday, 31 October 2014, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Liam:
>
> My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to, even
> inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the abilities of our
> community and I know from my meetings with members of our community how
> smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the Wikimedia
> movement.
>
>
> I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will be
> working from data as presented by the movement entities. The project has
> been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data provided by
> movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to movement
> entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
> increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this project.
> If this not the case, please let me know.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Garfield
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency and
> > good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to make
> > things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for smaller
> > chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact person!
> >
> > But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group of
> global
> > operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
> >
> > I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the
> project
> > too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working already
> for
> > two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been allocated
> to
> > each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process was
> > being created before it was announced today - so they were able to make
> any
> > other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of
> paperwork?
> >
> > Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time needed
> to
> > comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with other
> > WMF-compliance paperwork?
> >
> > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> > [2]
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
> >
> > wittylama.com
> > Peace, love & metadata
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > wittylama.com
> > Peace, love & metadata
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Garfield Byrd
> Chief of Finance and Administration
> Wikimedia Foundation
> 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> 415.882.0495 (fax)
> www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
>
> *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>



--
wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Michael Guss wrote:s
>A meta page
><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report>
>was created for the project, in order to make the information accessible
>to everyone and create a space for discussion and/or suggestions. We
>strongly encourage you to share with us what types of additional
>information is desired.

This sounds like an interesting project. :-)

>WMF Finance Fellows (User:WMF Finance Fellows)
><https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:WMF_Finance_Fellows>

Meta-Wiki is reporting that "user account 'WMF Finance Fellows' is not
registered." It's fine to have a shared account exclusively for
Special:EmailUser capability, but the account must not be used to edit the
projects, of course. A group founded on the basis of increasing
accountability project can't be above reproach, if you know what I mean.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hello Liam and Richard,

Let me try to answer some of your questions.

*Do you have an idea of how much work will be required by movement orgs for
this?*

*Very little actually: it is a matter of simply answering an email asking,
for instance, out of your "Administrative Costs" listed in your most
recent report, how much were your travel costs.* *There will not be further
paperwork to be submitted. It is the fellows' job to make the final report,
not the chapters or thematic organizations. Furthermore, we are working
with the WMF Grantmaking department as they contribute their expertise and
their already existing reports. Therefore, we won't be contacting the
chapters until we've exhausted our current available resources. Again, I
want to emphasize that we will not be asking for any additional paperwork
to be submitted. *

*I worry that your target of 20 January won't be met, as we don't have the
resources to help revalidate your data at that point of our year. December
is difficult, as the FDC figures are released then - which is when we need
to construct our final budget for the next year. January/February is also
difficult , as all our staff are already pre-booked working on our
financial year end of January 31 - which is also an FDC quarter end - so
there's a lot of work to be done!*

*We completely understand how overwhelming work can be near the end of the
year and the end of respective fiscal years. The date indicated is not a
hard deadline, but rather a tentative date the fellows have set themselves
as a group milestone; by no means is this date a "drop-dead" item. We fully
appreciate the work our partner organizations conduct and we acknowledge
the difference in abilities to respond to requests. Hopefully we are able
to catch the chapters at the most convenient time possible over the next
few months. Again, we will not reach out until we make certain that the
data we intend to find is not already available. *

*Has anyone contacted movement orgs already, perhaps a few months ago? *

*No, movement organizations were not contacted about this project within
the past few months.*

*Will you need to talk to treasurers? If so, please let us know as far in
advance as you can so we can book dates for meetings!*

*At this time, there is no need to talk to the treasurers. If the there is
a time, we will contact them as far ahead as possible. *

*What happens if movement orgs do not have time to check your data? Will
you go ahead with "unvalidated" data in your report, or will you be able to
move your timeline to fit with ours?*

*We are here to meet your schedule as best as we can. Given the six-month
duration of the fellows time here at WMF, we hope to conclude this project
before the end of March 2015 and to conclude the initial phase of
consolidating the data earlier than that. However, we are flexible.
Ideally, we would like to validate all the data we receive, but we
understand that this may not be the case for every item. We will indicate
line items that have not been validated in our final report, if need be.
That said, we appreciate if you are able to help us make the most accurate
final product possible. *

*How much input will chapters have in the process? who will have the "final
say" in the comparisons - presumably the WMF? *

*Chapters are strongly encouraged to offer their input throughout the
entire process. After all, this project concerns you! Chapters are
encouraged to reach out directly via the project's meta page
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report> and the
fellows' pages with their questions, comments, and suggestions. Once we
have gathered as much information as possible, we will attempt to
consolidate our findings into a single, movement-wide report. Garfield Byrd
will monitor and determine the viability of the final product, but any
product rendered will be the result of the participation of our partner
organizations. If there are concerns about the quality of the data then it
will be highlighted in the report. *

*In response to MZMcBrIde, the user account 'WMF Finance Fellows' will not
be used to make any edits on any of the Wikimedia projects. *


*Thank you,*











On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Garfield for your quick reply - and with welcome news in it. I am
> heartened to see your clarification/confirmation that this project is
> specifically intending to re-use existing documentation and not to increase
> the "red tape" or compliance-requirements of chapters. Also, as mentioned
> in my first email, I would like to reiterate my support for the idea that
> (especially smaller/newer) chapters have a dedicated contact person. This
> will be very helpful for many.
>
> On the other note I raised, could you/anyone also address whether the
> chapters had prior-awareness of this new project's existence or planned
> creation before this email announcement?
>
> On Friday, 31 October 2014, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Liam:
> >
> > My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to, even
> > inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the abilities of
> our
> > community and I know from my meetings with members of our community how
> > smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the Wikimedia
> > movement.
> >
> >
> > I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will be
> > working from data as presented by the movement entities. The project has
> > been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data provided by
> > movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to movement
> > entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
> > increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this project.
> > If this not the case, please let me know.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Garfield
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency and
> > > good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to make
> > > things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for smaller
> > > chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact person!
> > >
> > > But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group of
> > global
> > > operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
> > >
> > > I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the
> > project
> > > too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working already
> > for
> > > two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been allocated
> > to
> > > each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process was
> > > being created before it was announced today - so they were able to make
> > any
> > > other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of
> > paperwork?
> > >
> > > Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time
> needed
> > to
> > > comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with
> other
> > > WMF-compliance paperwork?
> > >
> > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> > > [2]
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> > > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
> > >
> > > wittylama.com
> > > Peace, love & metadata
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > wittylama.com
> > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Garfield Byrd
> > Chief of Finance and Administration
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> > 415.882.0495 (fax)
> > www.wikimediafoundation.org
> >
> > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> >
> > *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> wittylama.com
> Peace, love & metadata
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
Michael Guss
Research Analyst
Wikimediafoundation.org
mguss@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Thanks for the replies. They've calmed my fears a fair bit, but I'm still a
little concerned - even simple questions like* "of your administrative
costs, **how much were your travel costs"* don't really make a lot of sense
to us, because some of our travel costs aren't administrative - and we
don't track "administrative expenditure" because that term isn't a
definition we use, and it's not clearly defined.

This is why we've been having trouble with understanding some
Grantmaking/FDC reports in the past - our method of reporting our financial
information differs from the way that teams at the WMF would like it to be
presented, because our key definitions differ (not to criticise the
grantmaking team, who are very helpful in this regard!)

I think that this project is trying to fix these problems, and it's a
commendable effort - but:

1. Your team can't create entirely new definitions for organisations to
report to (because we simply can't afford to increase our finance team to
report to another definition - we already report to three different
definitions). There is very little appetite in the movement for bigger or
more professional finance teams and any big changes to reporting
requirements simply won't be possible without more resources going that way.
2. Your team may not be able to get all the information they need from
participants because participants are simply too busy - in which case, the
results of the report will go ahead and be used by the movement even though
it may not be accurate or indeed fit for purpose. If the FDC process then
goes ahead and uses the report outcomes to ask for financial information,
then it means that the inaccurate report will have a direct effect on the
metrics we're marked against, and thus a direct effect on movement funding.
3. As WMUK, I fear that the less effort we put into involving ourselves
in the process, the greater the chance that the final outcome will be a
poor one for us. This in turn means that this actually has to be something
that WMUK put a fair amount of effort into influencing, to ensure that our
views are listened to and that the final report is something we can
actually report against! I worry about how smaller chapters, like Ghana,
Ukraine or Hungary - or the fledgling user groups - will manage, if the
final definitions don't reflect their views at all.
4. You say that if an organisation can't give your team the information
they want, a phrase will appear in the final report along the lines of
"there are concerns about the quality of the data provided by Wikimedia
UK"... which won't be true, and will be read into by the community as "WMUK
has been audited and found wanting"!
5. The report is intended to make data* "consistent, meaningful and
comparable among the chapters, thematic organizations, and the
Foundation" *-
a laudable goal and one I fully support - but it appears that the
Foundation aren't being consulted by the Finance Fellows at all. Where will
their views and date be taken into account - will they be using the same
process as everyone else, or a different process? I am not a cynic and I
don't think that the WMF will use this process to dictate what reporting
requirements should be, but I do worry that unless the WMF go through the
same process, the end result will be relatively easy for the WMF teams to
accomplish and rather harder for the rest of us! This increases our
back-office costs and makes thorgs appear less efficient when that won't
necessarily be the case.

I trust the team - they are a group of keen, young, idealistic people - and
I know that this is going to be done in good faith, but I don't see how it
can be done fairly without a lot of work from the organisations involved -
if they don't get involved, their views won't be reflected.

In order for this to be successful, his has to be a* team effort*, from all
the financial and project teams (and individuals!) across the world, and at
present it isn't - and given that this is the first the rest of the
movement has heard of the report, it will be very difficult for the rest of
us to help at such short notice.

I really, really appreciate what you're doing - but I want to be part of
this endeavour, and I hope you see my worries!

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 31 October 2014 20:46, Michael Guss <mguss@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> Hello Liam and Richard,
>
> Let me try to answer some of your questions.
>
> *Do you have an idea of how much work will be required by movement orgs for
> this?*
>
> *Very little actually: it is a matter of simply answering an email asking,
> for instance, out of your "Administrative Costs" listed in your most
> recent report, how much were your travel costs.* *There will not be further
> paperwork to be submitted. It is the fellows' job to make the final report,
> not the chapters or thematic organizations. Furthermore, we are working
> with the WMF Grantmaking department as they contribute their expertise and
> their already existing reports. Therefore, we won't be contacting the
> chapters until we've exhausted our current available resources. Again, I
> want to emphasize that we will not be asking for any additional paperwork
> to be submitted. *
>
> *I worry that your target of 20 January won't be met, as we don't have the
> resources to help revalidate your data at that point of our year. December
> is difficult, as the FDC figures are released then - which is when we need
> to construct our final budget for the next year. January/February is also
> difficult , as all our staff are already pre-booked working on our
> financial year end of January 31 - which is also an FDC quarter end - so
> there's a lot of work to be done!*
>
> *We completely understand how overwhelming work can be near the end of the
> year and the end of respective fiscal years. The date indicated is not a
> hard deadline, but rather a tentative date the fellows have set themselves
> as a group milestone; by no means is this date a "drop-dead" item. We fully
> appreciate the work our partner organizations conduct and we acknowledge
> the difference in abilities to respond to requests. Hopefully we are able
> to catch the chapters at the most convenient time possible over the next
> few months. Again, we will not reach out until we make certain that the
> data we intend to find is not already available. *
>
> *Has anyone contacted movement orgs already, perhaps a few months ago? *
>
> *No, movement organizations were not contacted about this project within
> the past few months.*
>
> *Will you need to talk to treasurers? If so, please let us know as far in
> advance as you can so we can book dates for meetings!*
>
> *At this time, there is no need to talk to the treasurers. If the there is
> a time, we will contact them as far ahead as possible. *
>
> *What happens if movement orgs do not have time to check your data? Will
> you go ahead with "unvalidated" data in your report, or will you be able to
> move your timeline to fit with ours?*
>
> *We are here to meet your schedule as best as we can. Given the six-month
> duration of the fellows time here at WMF, we hope to conclude this project
> before the end of March 2015 and to conclude the initial phase of
> consolidating the data earlier than that. However, we are flexible.
> Ideally, we would like to validate all the data we receive, but we
> understand that this may not be the case for every item. We will indicate
> line items that have not been validated in our final report, if need be.
> That said, we appreciate if you are able to help us make the most accurate
> final product possible. *
>
> *How much input will chapters have in the process? who will have the "final
> say" in the comparisons - presumably the WMF? *
>
> *Chapters are strongly encouraged to offer their input throughout the
> entire process. After all, this project concerns you! Chapters are
> encouraged to reach out directly via the project's meta page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report> and the
> fellows' pages with their questions, comments, and suggestions. Once we
> have gathered as much information as possible, we will attempt to
> consolidate our findings into a single, movement-wide report. Garfield Byrd
> will monitor and determine the viability of the final product, but any
> product rendered will be the result of the participation of our partner
> organizations. If there are concerns about the quality of the data then it
> will be highlighted in the report. *
>
> *In response to MZMcBrIde, the user account 'WMF Finance Fellows' will not
> be used to make any edits on any of the Wikimedia projects. *
>
>
> *Thank you,*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thank you Garfield for your quick reply - and with welcome news in it. I
> am
> > heartened to see your clarification/confirmation that this project is
> > specifically intending to re-use existing documentation and not to
> increase
> > the "red tape" or compliance-requirements of chapters. Also, as mentioned
> > in my first email, I would like to reiterate my support for the idea that
> > (especially smaller/newer) chapters have a dedicated contact person. This
> > will be very helpful for many.
> >
> > On the other note I raised, could you/anyone also address whether the
> > chapters had prior-awareness of this new project's existence or planned
> > creation before this email announcement?
> >
> > On Friday, 31 October 2014, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Liam:
> > >
> > > My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to, even
> > > inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the abilities of
> > our
> > > community and I know from my meetings with members of our community how
> > > smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the
> Wikimedia
> > > movement.
> > >
> > >
> > > I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will be
> > > working from data as presented by the movement entities. The project
> has
> > > been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data provided
> by
> > > movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to movement
> > > entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
> > > increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this
> project.
> > > If this not the case, please let me know.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Garfield
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com
> > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency
> and
> > > > good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to
> make
> > > > things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for
> smaller
> > > > chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact person!
> > > >
> > > > But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group of
> > > global
> > > > operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
> > > >
> > > > I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the
> > > project
> > > > too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working
> already
> > > for
> > > > two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been
> allocated
> > > to
> > > > each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process
> was
> > > > being created before it was announced today - so they were able to
> make
> > > any
> > > > other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of
> > > paperwork?
> > > >
> > > > Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time
> > needed
> > > to
> > > > comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with
> > other
> > > > WMF-compliance paperwork?
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> > > > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
> > > >
> > > > wittylama.com
> > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > wittylama.com
> > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Garfield Byrd
> > > Chief of Finance and Administration
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> > > 415.882.0495 (fax)
> > > www.wikimediafoundation.org
> > >
> > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> > >
> > > *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > wittylama.com
> > Peace, love & metadata
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Guss
> Research Analyst
> Wikimediafoundation.org
> mguss@wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Richard, I appreciate your view and understand your concerns. But even if
all of your worries are true, which I'm not sure is the case, the
alternative of not doing anything or putting it off seems worse. A group of
people taking a run at sorting this out seems like a good first approach.

And an alternative approach of having all of this work be done by a formal
group of representatives of chapters/thematic organizations with the
assistance a WMF staff like the Fiance Fellows doesn't really seem to
answer the concerns that you raise. And in fact puts more of a burden on
the groups.

Sydney

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at Cochrane Collaboration

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Richard Symonds <
richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:

> Thanks for the replies. They've calmed my fears a fair bit, but I'm still a
> little concerned - even simple questions like* "of your administrative
> costs, **how much were your travel costs"* don't really make a lot of sense
> to us, because some of our travel costs aren't administrative - and we
> don't track "administrative expenditure" because that term isn't a
> definition we use, and it's not clearly defined.
>
> This is why we've been having trouble with understanding some
> Grantmaking/FDC reports in the past - our method of reporting our financial
> information differs from the way that teams at the WMF would like it to be
> presented, because our key definitions differ (not to criticise the
> grantmaking team, who are very helpful in this regard!)
>
> I think that this project is trying to fix these problems, and it's a
> commendable effort - but:
>
> 1. Your team can't create entirely new definitions for organisations to
> report to (because we simply can't afford to increase our finance team
> to
> report to another definition - we already report to three different
> definitions). There is very little appetite in the movement for bigger
> or
> more professional finance teams and any big changes to reporting
> requirements simply won't be possible without more resources going that
> way.
> 2. Your team may not be able to get all the information they need from
> participants because participants are simply too busy - in which case,
> the
> results of the report will go ahead and be used by the movement even
> though
> it may not be accurate or indeed fit for purpose. If the FDC process
> then
> goes ahead and uses the report outcomes to ask for financial
> information,
> then it means that the inaccurate report will have a direct effect on
> the
> metrics we're marked against, and thus a direct effect on movement
> funding.
> 3. As WMUK, I fear that the less effort we put into involving ourselves
> in the process, the greater the chance that the final outcome will be a
> poor one for us. This in turn means that this actually has to be
> something
> that WMUK put a fair amount of effort into influencing, to ensure that
> our
> views are listened to and that the final report is something we can
> actually report against! I worry about how smaller chapters, like Ghana,
> Ukraine or Hungary - or the fledgling user groups - will manage, if the
> final definitions don't reflect their views at all.
> 4. You say that if an organisation can't give your team the information
> they want, a phrase will appear in the final report along the lines of
> "there are concerns about the quality of the data provided by Wikimedia
> UK"... which won't be true, and will be read into by the community as
> "WMUK
> has been audited and found wanting"!
> 5. The report is intended to make data* "consistent, meaningful and
> comparable among the chapters, thematic organizations, and the
> Foundation" *-
> a laudable goal and one I fully support - but it appears that the
> Foundation aren't being consulted by the Finance Fellows at all. Where
> will
> their views and date be taken into account - will they be using the same
> process as everyone else, or a different process? I am not a cynic and I
> don't think that the WMF will use this process to dictate what reporting
> requirements should be, but I do worry that unless the WMF go through
> the
> same process, the end result will be relatively easy for the WMF teams
> to
> accomplish and rather harder for the rest of us! This increases our
> back-office costs and makes thorgs appear less efficient when that won't
> necessarily be the case.
>
> I trust the team - they are a group of keen, young, idealistic people - and
> I know that this is going to be done in good faith, but I don't see how it
> can be done fairly without a lot of work from the organisations involved -
> if they don't get involved, their views won't be reflected.
>
> In order for this to be successful, his has to be a* team effort*, from all
> the financial and project teams (and individuals!) across the world, and at
> present it isn't - and given that this is the first the rest of the
> movement has heard of the report, it will be very difficult for the rest of
> us to help at such short notice.
>
> I really, really appreciate what you're doing - but I want to be part of
> this endeavour, and I hope you see my worries!
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> On 31 October 2014 20:46, Michael Guss <mguss@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > Hello Liam and Richard,
> >
> > Let me try to answer some of your questions.
> >
> > *Do you have an idea of how much work will be required by movement orgs
> for
> > this?*
> >
> > *Very little actually: it is a matter of simply answering an email
> asking,
> > for instance, out of your "Administrative Costs" listed in your most
> > recent report, how much were your travel costs.* *There will not be
> further
> > paperwork to be submitted. It is the fellows' job to make the final
> report,
> > not the chapters or thematic organizations. Furthermore, we are working
> > with the WMF Grantmaking department as they contribute their expertise
> and
> > their already existing reports. Therefore, we won't be contacting the
> > chapters until we've exhausted our current available resources. Again, I
> > want to emphasize that we will not be asking for any additional paperwork
> > to be submitted. *
> >
> > *I worry that your target of 20 January won't be met, as we don't have
> the
> > resources to help revalidate your data at that point of our year.
> December
> > is difficult, as the FDC figures are released then - which is when we
> need
> > to construct our final budget for the next year. January/February is also
> > difficult , as all our staff are already pre-booked working on our
> > financial year end of January 31 - which is also an FDC quarter end - so
> > there's a lot of work to be done!*
> >
> > *We completely understand how overwhelming work can be near the end of
> the
> > year and the end of respective fiscal years. The date indicated is not a
> > hard deadline, but rather a tentative date the fellows have set
> themselves
> > as a group milestone; by no means is this date a "drop-dead" item. We
> fully
> > appreciate the work our partner organizations conduct and we acknowledge
> > the difference in abilities to respond to requests. Hopefully we are able
> > to catch the chapters at the most convenient time possible over the next
> > few months. Again, we will not reach out until we make certain that the
> > data we intend to find is not already available. *
> >
> > *Has anyone contacted movement orgs already, perhaps a few months ago? *
> >
> > *No, movement organizations were not contacted about this project within
> > the past few months.*
> >
> > *Will you need to talk to treasurers? If so, please let us know as far in
> > advance as you can so we can book dates for meetings!*
> >
> > *At this time, there is no need to talk to the treasurers. If the there
> is
> > a time, we will contact them as far ahead as possible. *
> >
> > *What happens if movement orgs do not have time to check your data? Will
> > you go ahead with "unvalidated" data in your report, or will you be able
> to
> > move your timeline to fit with ours?*
> >
> > *We are here to meet your schedule as best as we can. Given the six-month
> > duration of the fellows time here at WMF, we hope to conclude this
> project
> > before the end of March 2015 and to conclude the initial phase of
> > consolidating the data earlier than that. However, we are flexible.
> > Ideally, we would like to validate all the data we receive, but we
> > understand that this may not be the case for every item. We will indicate
> > line items that have not been validated in our final report, if need be.
> > That said, we appreciate if you are able to help us make the most
> accurate
> > final product possible. *
> >
> > *How much input will chapters have in the process? who will have the
> "final
> > say" in the comparisons - presumably the WMF? *
> >
> > *Chapters are strongly encouraged to offer their input throughout the
> > entire process. After all, this project concerns you! Chapters are
> > encouraged to reach out directly via the project's meta page
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report> and the
> > fellows' pages with their questions, comments, and suggestions. Once we
> > have gathered as much information as possible, we will attempt to
> > consolidate our findings into a single, movement-wide report. Garfield
> Byrd
> > will monitor and determine the viability of the final product, but any
> > product rendered will be the result of the participation of our partner
> > organizations. If there are concerns about the quality of the data then
> it
> > will be highlighted in the report. *
> >
> > *In response to MZMcBrIde, the user account 'WMF Finance Fellows' will
> not
> > be used to make any edits on any of the Wikimedia projects. *
> >
> >
> > *Thank you,*
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thank you Garfield for your quick reply - and with welcome news in it.
> I
> > am
> > > heartened to see your clarification/confirmation that this project is
> > > specifically intending to re-use existing documentation and not to
> > increase
> > > the "red tape" or compliance-requirements of chapters. Also, as
> mentioned
> > > in my first email, I would like to reiterate my support for the idea
> that
> > > (especially smaller/newer) chapters have a dedicated contact person.
> This
> > > will be very helpful for many.
> > >
> > > On the other note I raised, could you/anyone also address whether the
> > > chapters had prior-awareness of this new project's existence or planned
> > > creation before this email announcement?
> > >
> > > On Friday, 31 October 2014, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Liam:
> > > >
> > > > My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to,
> even
> > > > inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the abilities
> of
> > > our
> > > > community and I know from my meetings with members of our community
> how
> > > > smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the
> > Wikimedia
> > > > movement.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will be
> > > > working from data as presented by the movement entities. The project
> > has
> > > > been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data
> provided
> > by
> > > > movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to
> movement
> > > > entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
> > > > increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this
> > project.
> > > > If this not the case, please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Garfield
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com
> > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for transparency
> > and
> > > > > good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to
> > make
> > > > > things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for
> > smaller
> > > > > chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact
> person!
> > > > >
> > > > > But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group
> of
> > > > global
> > > > > operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
> > > > >
> > > > > I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope the
> > > > project
> > > > > too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working
> > already
> > > > for
> > > > > two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been
> > allocated
> > > > to
> > > > > each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new process
> > was
> > > > > being created before it was announced today - so they were able to
> > make
> > > > any
> > > > > other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of
> > > > paperwork?
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time
> > > needed
> > > > to
> > > > > comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this with
> > > other
> > > > > WMF-compliance paperwork?
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> > > > > [2]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> > > > > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
> > > > >
> > > > > wittylama.com
> > > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > wittylama.com
> > > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Garfield Byrd
> > > > Chief of Finance and Administration
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> > > > 415.882.0495 (fax)
> > > > www.wikimediafoundation.org
> > > >
> > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> > > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> > > >
> > > > *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > wittylama.com
> > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Guss
> > Research Analyst
> > Wikimediafoundation.org
> > mguss@wikimedia.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
You're right Sydney - not all of them are going to happen. They're worries
- hypothetical worries in some cases - but they impact directly on the work
I do and it would be wrong of me to not raise them.

In answer to your other points:

- You are right that the alternative of not doing anything or putting it
off seems worse. It *is* worse to not do anything. Indeed, this is
something I've wanted to do for years (I simply haven't had the time) and I
am 100% behind it happening. It is sensible and I will do everything I can
to support it.
- However, when you say "a group of people taking a run at sorting this
out seems like a good first approach" - it is a good first approach, but I
worry that the first approach will become the only approach, and that the
results will be used even if they're too "rough" to use. This is a huge
task and it needs to be right or it runs the risk of damaging the movement.
- I don't think this should be done by a formal group of representatives
- in my experience committees aren't an amazing way of doing things like
this. The team who have been put together seem to be bright young things
and I have no doubt that they will do the best job they can - but I think
that the first version can be improved with a lot more buy-in from the rest
of the movement :-)


Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 4 November 2014 19:03, Sydney Poore <sydney.poore@gmail.com> wrote:

> Richard, I appreciate your view and understand your concerns. But even if
> all of your worries are true, which I'm not sure is the case, the
> alternative of not doing anything or putting it off seems worse. A group of
> people taking a run at sorting this out seems like a good first approach.
>
> And an alternative approach of having all of this work be done by a formal
> group of representatives of chapters/thematic organizations with the
> assistance a WMF staff like the Fiance Fellows doesn't really seem to
> answer the concerns that you raise. And in fact puts more of a burden on
> the groups.
>
> Sydney
>
> Sydney Poore
> User:FloNight
> Wikipedian in Residence
> at Cochrane Collaboration
>
> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Richard Symonds <
> richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the replies. They've calmed my fears a fair bit, but I'm
> still a
> > little concerned - even simple questions like* "of your administrative
> > costs, **how much were your travel costs"* don't really make a lot of
> sense
> > to us, because some of our travel costs aren't administrative - and we
> > don't track "administrative expenditure" because that term isn't a
> > definition we use, and it's not clearly defined.
> >
> > This is why we've been having trouble with understanding some
> > Grantmaking/FDC reports in the past - our method of reporting our
> financial
> > information differs from the way that teams at the WMF would like it to
> be
> > presented, because our key definitions differ (not to criticise the
> > grantmaking team, who are very helpful in this regard!)
> >
> > I think that this project is trying to fix these problems, and it's a
> > commendable effort - but:
> >
> > 1. Your team can't create entirely new definitions for organisations
> to
> > report to (because we simply can't afford to increase our finance team
> > to
> > report to another definition - we already report to three different
> > definitions). There is very little appetite in the movement for bigger
> > or
> > more professional finance teams and any big changes to reporting
> > requirements simply won't be possible without more resources going
> that
> > way.
> > 2. Your team may not be able to get all the information they need from
> > participants because participants are simply too busy - in which case,
> > the
> > results of the report will go ahead and be used by the movement even
> > though
> > it may not be accurate or indeed fit for purpose. If the FDC process
> > then
> > goes ahead and uses the report outcomes to ask for financial
> > information,
> > then it means that the inaccurate report will have a direct effect on
> > the
> > metrics we're marked against, and thus a direct effect on movement
> > funding.
> > 3. As WMUK, I fear that the less effort we put into involving
> ourselves
> > in the process, the greater the chance that the final outcome will be
> a
> > poor one for us. This in turn means that this actually has to be
> > something
> > that WMUK put a fair amount of effort into influencing, to ensure that
> > our
> > views are listened to and that the final report is something we can
> > actually report against! I worry about how smaller chapters, like
> Ghana,
> > Ukraine or Hungary - or the fledgling user groups - will manage, if
> the
> > final definitions don't reflect their views at all.
> > 4. You say that if an organisation can't give your team the
> information
> > they want, a phrase will appear in the final report along the lines of
> > "there are concerns about the quality of the data provided by
> Wikimedia
> > UK"... which won't be true, and will be read into by the community as
> > "WMUK
> > has been audited and found wanting"!
> > 5. The report is intended to make data* "consistent, meaningful and
> > comparable among the chapters, thematic organizations, and the
> > Foundation" *-
> > a laudable goal and one I fully support - but it appears that the
> > Foundation aren't being consulted by the Finance Fellows at all. Where
> > will
> > their views and date be taken into account - will they be using the
> same
> > process as everyone else, or a different process? I am not a cynic
> and I
> > don't think that the WMF will use this process to dictate what
> reporting
> > requirements should be, but I do worry that unless the WMF go through
> > the
> > same process, the end result will be relatively easy for the WMF teams
> > to
> > accomplish and rather harder for the rest of us! This increases our
> > back-office costs and makes thorgs appear less efficient when that
> won't
> > necessarily be the case.
> >
> > I trust the team - they are a group of keen, young, idealistic people -
> and
> > I know that this is going to be done in good faith, but I don't see how
> it
> > can be done fairly without a lot of work from the organisations involved
> -
> > if they don't get involved, their views won't be reflected.
> >
> > In order for this to be successful, his has to be a* team effort*, from
> all
> > the financial and project teams (and individuals!) across the world, and
> at
> > present it isn't - and given that this is the first the rest of the
> > movement has heard of the report, it will be very difficult for the rest
> of
> > us to help at such short notice.
> >
> > I really, really appreciate what you're doing - but I want to be part of
> > this endeavour, and I hope you see my worries!
> >
> > Richard Symonds
> > Wikimedia UK
> > 0207 065 0992
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> >
> > *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> > over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
> >
> > On 31 October 2014 20:46, Michael Guss <mguss@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Liam and Richard,
> > >
> > > Let me try to answer some of your questions.
> > >
> > > *Do you have an idea of how much work will be required by movement orgs
> > for
> > > this?*
> > >
> > > *Very little actually: it is a matter of simply answering an email
> > asking,
> > > for instance, out of your "Administrative Costs" listed in your most
> > > recent report, how much were your travel costs.* *There will not be
> > further
> > > paperwork to be submitted. It is the fellows' job to make the final
> > report,
> > > not the chapters or thematic organizations. Furthermore, we are working
> > > with the WMF Grantmaking department as they contribute their expertise
> > and
> > > their already existing reports. Therefore, we won't be contacting the
> > > chapters until we've exhausted our current available resources. Again,
> I
> > > want to emphasize that we will not be asking for any additional
> paperwork
> > > to be submitted. *
> > >
> > > *I worry that your target of 20 January won't be met, as we don't have
> > the
> > > resources to help revalidate your data at that point of our year.
> > December
> > > is difficult, as the FDC figures are released then - which is when we
> > need
> > > to construct our final budget for the next year. January/February is
> also
> > > difficult , as all our staff are already pre-booked working on our
> > > financial year end of January 31 - which is also an FDC quarter end -
> so
> > > there's a lot of work to be done!*
> > >
> > > *We completely understand how overwhelming work can be near the end of
> > the
> > > year and the end of respective fiscal years. The date indicated is not
> a
> > > hard deadline, but rather a tentative date the fellows have set
> > themselves
> > > as a group milestone; by no means is this date a "drop-dead" item. We
> > fully
> > > appreciate the work our partner organizations conduct and we
> acknowledge
> > > the difference in abilities to respond to requests. Hopefully we are
> able
> > > to catch the chapters at the most convenient time possible over the
> next
> > > few months. Again, we will not reach out until we make certain that the
> > > data we intend to find is not already available. *
> > >
> > > *Has anyone contacted movement orgs already, perhaps a few months ago?
> *
> > >
> > > *No, movement organizations were not contacted about this project
> within
> > > the past few months.*
> > >
> > > *Will you need to talk to treasurers? If so, please let us know as far
> in
> > > advance as you can so we can book dates for meetings!*
> > >
> > > *At this time, there is no need to talk to the treasurers. If the there
> > is
> > > a time, we will contact them as far ahead as possible. *
> > >
> > > *What happens if movement orgs do not have time to check your data?
> Will
> > > you go ahead with "unvalidated" data in your report, or will you be
> able
> > to
> > > move your timeline to fit with ours?*
> > >
> > > *We are here to meet your schedule as best as we can. Given the
> six-month
> > > duration of the fellows time here at WMF, we hope to conclude this
> > project
> > > before the end of March 2015 and to conclude the initial phase of
> > > consolidating the data earlier than that. However, we are flexible.
> > > Ideally, we would like to validate all the data we receive, but we
> > > understand that this may not be the case for every item. We will
> indicate
> > > line items that have not been validated in our final report, if need
> be.
> > > That said, we appreciate if you are able to help us make the most
> > accurate
> > > final product possible. *
> > >
> > > *How much input will chapters have in the process? who will have the
> > "final
> > > say" in the comparisons - presumably the WMF? *
> > >
> > > *Chapters are strongly encouraged to offer their input throughout the
> > > entire process. After all, this project concerns you! Chapters are
> > > encouraged to reach out directly via the project's meta page
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report> and
> the
> > > fellows' pages with their questions, comments, and suggestions. Once we
> > > have gathered as much information as possible, we will attempt to
> > > consolidate our findings into a single, movement-wide report. Garfield
> > Byrd
> > > will monitor and determine the viability of the final product, but any
> > > product rendered will be the result of the participation of our partner
> > > organizations. If there are concerns about the quality of the data then
> > it
> > > will be highlighted in the report. *
> > >
> > > *In response to MZMcBrIde, the user account 'WMF Finance Fellows' will
> > not
> > > be used to make any edits on any of the Wikimedia projects. *
> > >
> > >
> > > *Thank you,*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thank you Garfield for your quick reply - and with welcome news in
> it.
> > I
> > > am
> > > > heartened to see your clarification/confirmation that this project is
> > > > specifically intending to re-use existing documentation and not to
> > > increase
> > > > the "red tape" or compliance-requirements of chapters. Also, as
> > mentioned
> > > > in my first email, I would like to reiterate my support for the idea
> > that
> > > > (especially smaller/newer) chapters have a dedicated contact person.
> > This
> > > > will be very helpful for many.
> > > >
> > > > On the other note I raised, could you/anyone also address whether the
> > > > chapters had prior-awareness of this new project's existence or
> planned
> > > > creation before this email announcement?
> > > >
> > > > On Friday, 31 October 2014, Garfield Byrd <gbyrd@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Liam:
> > > > >
> > > > > My apologies for the language you noted, it was not our intent to,
> > even
> > > > > inadvertently, to degrade anyone. We fully appreciate the
> abilities
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > community and I know from my meetings with members of our community
> > how
> > > > > smart and engaged they are in a variety of issues impacting the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > > movement.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to clarify that these Fellows are not auditors. They will
> be
> > > > > working from data as presented by the movement entities. The
> project
> > > has
> > > > > been designed so that the fellows will be using existing data
> > provided
> > > by
> > > > > movement entities and the Fellows will only be reaching out to
> > movement
> > > > > entities with clarifying questions. So there should be no material
> > > > > increase in staff/volunteer time to provide information for this
> > > project.
> > > > > If this not the case, please let me know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Garfield
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com
> > > > > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Interesting development. Probably a very good idea for
> transparency
> > > and
> > > > > > good use of the movement's money, and consistency of reporting to
> > > make
> > > > > > things comparable is a great goal. I especially think that for
> > > smaller
> > > > > > chapters there is lots of value in having a dedicated contact
> > person!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I find the self-description of the Fellows as "an elite group
> > of
> > > > > global
> > > > > > operatives"[1] a bit degrading to the rest of us...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I presume it's taken a fair while to recruit the team and scope
> the
> > > > > project
> > > > > > too (I see one linkedin profile which says they've been working
> > > already
> > > > > for
> > > > > > two months[3]). So, I wonder - did the Chapters who have been
> > > allocated
> > > > > to
> > > > > > each of these new auditors[2] have any notice that this new
> process
> > > was
> > > > > > being created before it was announced today - so they were able
> to
> > > make
> > > > > any
> > > > > > other time-commitments without being surprised by a new layer of
> > > > > paperwork?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, I presume that the increased amount of staff/volunteer time
> > > > needed
> > > > > to
> > > > > > comply with new paperwork will be offset by streamlining this
> with
> > > > other
> > > > > > WMF-compliance paperwork?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Oolukoya_(WMF)
> > > > > > [2]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement-wide_Financial_Report#Who_We_Are
> > > > > > [3] http://www.linkedin.com/pub/seyi-olukoya/59/b09/a7
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wittylama.com
> > > > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > wittylama.com
> > > > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Garfield Byrd
> > > > > Chief of Finance and Administration
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > > > > 415.839.6885 ext 6787
> > > > > 415.882.0495 (fax)
> > > > > www.wikimediafoundation.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share
> in
> > > > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> > > > >
> > > > > *https://donate.wikimedia.org <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org <javascript:;>
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > wittylama.com
> > > > Peace, love & metadata
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Michael Guss
> > > Research Analyst
> > > Wikimediafoundation.org
> > > mguss@wikimedia.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > <
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
On 4 November 2014 20:49, Richard Symonds <richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk>
wrote:

> I don't think this should be done by a formal group of representatives
> - in my experience committees aren't an amazing way of doing things like
> this. The team who have been put together seem to be bright young things
> and I have no doubt that they will do the best job they can - but I
> think
> that the first version can be improved with a lot more buy-in from the
> rest
> of the movement :-)
>

This.

The concept behind the 'finance fellows' is a great one: dedicated contact
people for the Chapters to help coordinate, standardise, streamline,
clarify the financial information among a variety of very diverse Wikimedia
Organisations.
Something like this is something that many people have wanted for a long
time. Newer or smaller chapters can feel 'left out' and overwhelmed by what
kind of information they need to report, when, how... especially for the
majority of Chapters that have no dedicated financial administration
professional.

However, by keeping the team's formation a secret, and not involving the
Chapters' financial staff in the conceptualisation stage (even as advanced
warning), does not start the concept off with good will. In fact, what
could/should have been a great day for the movement in helping to support
and coordinate its various parts, makes the very people who are going to be
working closest with the Finance Fellows (e.g. Richard, above) skeptical
and wary of being 'audited'. This is a great shame.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hi all,

As you may have heard, I've started temporary contract work for WMF as an
intern in Learning and Evaluation. [1] My work will focus on the Learning
Patterns Library. [2] One of the goals for the internship is to enable
easier and better reporting about grants, including financial reports. When
grantees spend countless hours writing reports, that drains resources that
could be invested in designing and producing more and better programs, and
I've heard that grantees prefer designing and producing programs over
tedious accounting and reporting tasks. You can expect to hear more from me
about learning patterns in the next few months, and I am hoping to hear
constructive ideas from community members and grantees that can be included
in the Learning Patterns Library.

Generally I will use my current Pine accounts for my community roles, and I
will save my WMF accounts for "official" WMF work.

I didn't know about these Finance Fellows either until I saw their profiles
appear on the WMF staff page, and I emailed Garfield to ask about them. A
community consultation in advance about this project would have been
helpful. The goals of these Fellows make sense to me; I've previously had
discussions with Grantmaking about trying to get comparable data across
programs. I too am interested in hearing how WMF Finance will implement
this program, and in particular how it will affect the Cascadia Wikimedians
User Group which I am helping to coordinate. It does worry me a little that
Wikimedia has a famously complicated social, financial, and legal
environment, and there are lots of ways for things to go wrong, especially
when people who have never before worked in this kind of environment are
brought into a role like global finance for the movement. That said, I hope
that Garfield will continue to address the concerns that are being
discussed in this thread, and that the work of the Finance Fellows will be
a net positive for everyone in the long run.

To the Finance Fellows: I hope that you are not discouraged by this
discussion. I've been in this global community for years in a variety of
roles, and I'm still learning. I hope that you have a good experience with
us.

Regards,

Pine

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Bgibbs_(WMF)
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns


*This is an Encyclopedia* <https://www.wikipedia.org/>






*One gateway to the wide garden of knowledge, where lies The deep rock of
our past, in which we must delve The well of our future,The clear water we
must leave untainted for those who come after us,The fertile earth, in
which truth may grow in bright places, tended by many hands,And the broad
fall of sunshine, warming our first steps toward knowing how much we do not
know.**—Catherine Munro*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
>
>
> However, by keeping the team's formation a secret, and not involving the
> Chapters' financial staff in the conceptualisation stage (even as advanced
> warning), does not start the concept off with good will.


While completely understanding the point you're making, I would mainly
suggest not worrying about this. Many things going on in among Wikimedia
movement organisations are imperfect steps in the right direction and it's
more important to focus on the "step in the right direction" bit.

In many ways it's all so new and diverse that we currently are one level of
abstraction beyond sharing learning and information. We are still in the
process of learning how to share learning and of gathering information
about what information there is.

I suspect the Finance Fellows may make a very valuable contribution even if
their results are a bit less concrete than they anticipate. Hopefully the
dialogue here will be helpful in shaping their approach.

Chris
(Wikimedia UK trustee, though speaking personally as usual)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Walter, Arda, Lene & Seyi: welcome! Thank you for tackling this
project, I hope you will share further thoughts about it.

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Richard Symonds
<richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> They're worries - hypothetical worries in some cases - but they impact directly on the work
> I do and it would be wrong of me to not raise them.

They are worth raising, thank you.

> it is a good first approach, but I worry that the first approach will become
> the only approach, and that the results will be used even if they're too
> "rough" to use.

An important point. This happens regularly despite the best
intentions of all involved. (And not only at the organizational level
-- e.g., we all still rely on 'edit count' for so many things, despite
persistent vocal attention to its weaknesses and subvertability as a
metric since the start.)

> I think that the first version can be improved with a lot more buy-in from the rest
> of the movement :-)

This is likely :) I've added your concerns to the wiki discussion
about the report:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement-wide_Financial_Report

(Also cc:ing the low-traffic treasurers mailing list. I believe some
org treasurers who don't have time to follow all of Wikimedia-l
nevertheless read that list.)

SJ

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).

Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
explanations requested, etc.

In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.

That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.

Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
think barely if ever happened yet.

Balazs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hi Balazs,

This, while at first glance a credible idea, wouldn't work for a number of
reasons:

- it misunderstands how major accounting firms work. Even if one
accounting group carried out the work, the people doing the work would be
the local accounting firms (eg KPMG Hungary, KPMG UK). These firms would
have different methodologies and practices.
- Some chapters, including WMUK, have a legal responsibility to be
independent. Having someone else report our finances would jeopardise that
independence.
- Bigger chapters - and some smaller ones - already have established
reporting procedures and practices, which in some cases are better than the
WMF's systems. It would be extremely difficult to update our systems from
our own, to WMF-led ones.
- There would still be delays and errors in reporting - and the dates
would still change because each country has different tax years (etc).
- Every organisation measures things differently - we all have different
cost centres, nominal codes, departments etc - having the WMF come in and
change them would be very difficult and would run the risk of some
organisations losing accuracy in their reporting (or would run the risk of
having a massively complex system to account for everything). At its
simplest level, definitions of things like "governance" or "office costs"
vary from country to country. For example, in WMUK, we count general
postage of letters as office costs, but items that fall under the Royal
Mail definition of parcels instead come out of the budget for a project. If
you're to have the same reporting for every country, you need to all be
using the same definition of "parcel"!
- Finally, every organisation's goals are different - and indeed our
funding streams are different. WMUK is mostly funded from outside the
movement, and as a result we are able to use our resources to fund
non-Wikimedia projects - for example, OpenStreetMap, or OpenCorporates, if
we wanted to. We can even fund political lobbying to a fair degree, which
is something the WMF can't do as easily. This means that the WMF has no
interest in counting that expenditure, because lobbying for open knowledge
is not a WMF goal in the same way that it's a WMUK goal. It would be funded
without using WMF funds, and would be spent on non-WMF goals.

Very complicated, and I'm sorry to write such a long email, but
standardising financial systems across continents is a very difficult thing
to do!

All the best,

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).

*Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*

On 21 November 2014 11:38, Balázs Viczián <balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu>
wrote:

> Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
> a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).
>
> Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
> directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
> explanations requested, etc.
>
> In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
> using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
> if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.
>
> That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
> definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
> or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.
>
> Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
> think barely if ever happened yet.
>
> Balazs
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hi Richard,

I think I was a bit misunderstandable here.

I'm not talking about the local reports but about the "translations" of
them for WMF. I would be more than happy if WMF would do it themselves.
This is what these fellows are doing as of my understanding in the next 6
months.

The bright future for me would be the "automated" version of this: WMF pays
for an accounting firm preferably a "big four" company (Deloitte, KPMG,
Ernst & Young or PriceWaterhouseCoopers) to do the accounting for all the
chapters.

Why?

Because they are present in almost every country in the world.

For small/new chapters and other current and future formations in need to
present an audited statement for the WMF it would be definitely a benefit
to have someone do the job. If they would do the local "regular" accounting
imo it would be even better.

So I have two levels here. One "normal": the local and one "translated" for
WMF. These big firms are capable of doing both. Maybe if we look into that
deeply it can turn out that on a global level we might end up saving on the
accounting costs with such a contract. But that is just my idea, no data to
support it. The fellows will be definitely able to answer such a question
though in six months time.

Balazs

2014-11-21 12:46 GMT+00:00 Richard Symonds <richard.symonds@wikimedia.org.uk
>:

> Hi Balazs,
>
> This, while at first glance a credible idea, wouldn't work for a number of
> reasons:
>
> - it misunderstands how major accounting firms work. Even if one
> accounting group carried out the work, the people doing the work would
> be
> the local accounting firms (eg KPMG Hungary, KPMG UK). These firms would
> have different methodologies and practices.
> - Some chapters, including WMUK, have a legal responsibility to be
> independent. Having someone else report our finances would jeopardise
> that
> independence.
> - Bigger chapters - and some smaller ones - already have established
> reporting procedures and practices, which in some cases are better than
> the
> WMF's systems. It would be extremely difficult to update our systems
> from
> our own, to WMF-led ones.
> - There would still be delays and errors in reporting - and the dates
> would still change because each country has different tax years (etc).
> - Every organisation measures things differently - we all have different
> cost centres, nominal codes, departments etc - having the WMF come in
> and
> change them would be very difficult and would run the risk of some
> organisations losing accuracy in their reporting (or would run the risk
> of
> having a massively complex system to account for everything). At its
> simplest level, definitions of things like "governance" or "office
> costs"
> vary from country to country. For example, in WMUK, we count general
> postage of letters as office costs, but items that fall under the Royal
> Mail definition of parcels instead come out of the budget for a
> project. If
> you're to have the same reporting for every country, you need to all be
> using the same definition of "parcel"!
> - Finally, every organisation's goals are different - and indeed our
> funding streams are different. WMUK is mostly funded from outside the
> movement, and as a result we are able to use our resources to fund
> non-Wikimedia projects - for example, OpenStreetMap, or OpenCorporates,
> if
> we wanted to. We can even fund political lobbying to a fair degree,
> which
> is something the WMF can't do as easily. This means that the WMF has no
> interest in counting that expenditure, because lobbying for open
> knowledge
> is not a WMF goal in the same way that it's a WMUK goal. It would be
> funded
> without using WMF funds, and would be spent on non-WMF goals.
>
> Very complicated, and I'm sorry to write such a long email, but
> standardising financial systems across continents is a very difficult thing
> to do!
>
> All the best,
>
> Richard Symonds
> Wikimedia UK
> 0207 065 0992
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
>
> *Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control
> over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents.*
>
> On 21 November 2014 11:38, Balázs Viczián <balazs.viczian@wikimedia.hu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together
> with
> > a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).
> >
> > Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
> > directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
> > explanations requested, etc.
> >
> > In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
> > using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative
> firm
> > if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.
> >
> > That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with
> same
> > definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
> > or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.
> >
> > Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
> > think barely if ever happened yet.
> >
> > Balazs
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
While this might sound attracting at a first glance the effect might be
exactly the opposite what is desired.

First, The wikimedia movement is not multinational like coca Cola which
just buys what it needs. Wikimedia depends on volunteers. I would never
donate money if it is not spent on the people sweating for Wikipedia. So
behaving like a cold money hungry multinational driven by quarterly reports
poses a reputational risk.

Second, The goal is to target as much money as possible to the mission.
Invent some non-core effort and then shifting it to a paid resource is
killing such a goal. The effort should ideally disappear, not being
outsourced.

And, at the end of the day established (reporting ) standards should be
easy to follow for everybody, without the need of a "translator ". Just
like we know well from laws and other standards.

Rupert
Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).

Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
explanations requested, etc.

In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.

That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.

Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
think barely if ever happened yet.

Balazs
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Rupert,

I doubt volunteer accounting is fun; most people actually hate it. Further
mor, most people actually can not do it as it should at all. No wonder this
is a separate profession.

People can discuss your statement that wikipedia is not multinational on
200+ language version wikipedias :)

It is global and it is multinational.

About half of the WMF staff was born and raised (and lived most of their
lives) outside the USA, including the past and the present EDs. Or check
the finance fellows for example :)

Accounting is the core of all activities; try not doing your personal tax
report and you'll see.

Wherever a single penny is changing hands, it has to be reported and
properly accounted. It is not only required by the law everywhere but
required for the sake of transparency and _accountability_

Balázs
2014.11.21. 19:45, "rupert THURNER" <rupert.thurner@gmail.com> ezt írta:

> While this might sound attracting at a first glance the effect might be
> exactly the opposite what is desired.
>
> First, The wikimedia movement is not multinational like coca Cola which
> just buys what it needs. Wikimedia depends on volunteers. I would never
> donate money if it is not spent on the people sweating for Wikipedia. So
> behaving like a cold money hungry multinational driven by quarterly reports
> poses a reputational risk.
>
> Second, The goal is to target as much money as possible to the mission.
> Invent some non-core effort and then shifting it to a paid resource is
> killing such a goal. The effort should ideally disappear, not being
> outsourced.
>
> And, at the end of the day established (reporting ) standards should be
> easy to follow for everybody, without the need of a "translator ". Just
> like we know well from laws and other standards.
>
> Rupert
> Hmm...I would love to *outsource *financial reporting to WMF together with
> a couple of other tasks as well (program evaluation for example).
>
> Imo the best would be to contact our (that is WM Hungary) accountant
> directly so they can get the data organized as wanted, on time, with
> explanations requested, etc.
>
> In long terms I would love to see a global contract with KPMG (as WMF is
> using them, or another of the big four) where KPMG (or an alternative firm
> if not present there) would take this task over from local chapters.
>
> That would ensure that the data is collected the exact same way (with same
> definitions and methodology used) in every single country, without delays
> or errors in reporting and on the best dates for WMF.
>
> Not to mention that it would decrease the workload of the chapters what I
> think barely if ever happened yet.
>
> Balazs
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Hi Finance Fellows,

The timeline for your work says that your draft report should be finished.
May we look at it? I am very curious about your findings.

Thanks (:

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Finance Fellows,
>
> The timeline for your work says that your draft report should be finished.
> May we look at it? I am very curious about your findings.
>
> Thanks (:
>
> Pine


​I'd like to point out that the timeline estimates completion by February
28. This is (hemispherically) March 1. And a Sunday. I suggest some
patience :)​


--
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF Finance Fellows to develop first-ever movement-wide financial report and metrics [ In reply to ]
Keegan,

May I point out that the term on the timeline is "deadline", as in
"commitment", not as in "estimate". I view commitments as serious business.
I believe that in IEGCom we met our deadlines every single time when I was
on that committee, the Signpost is published weekly with rare exceptions,
and there were a number of nights as a WMF intern when I got less than 6
hours of sleep in my semi-successful efforts to keep my commitments to WMF
and to my other employer. ( I do thank WMF for that internship, it was a
good experience overall). Of course there may be variances from schedules
on occasion (people do get sick, have their cars break down, etc), but I
believe that Lila made a point in the All Hands that projects are to be
completed on time, and I think it's reasonable that commitments should be
kept whenever possible. I try to do this myself and I hope that WMF takes
its commitments seriously too.

The report of the Finance Fellows will inform some of my thinking about
Cascadia's budget and it would be helpful to have the draft published early
this week.

Thank you,

Pine
On Mar 1, 2015 5:38 PM, "Keegan Peterzell" <keegan.wiki@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Pine W <wiki.pine@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Finance Fellows,
> >
> > The timeline for your work says that your draft report should be
> finished.
> > May we look at it? I am very curious about your findings.
> >
> > Thanks (:
> >
> > Pine
>
>
> ​I'd like to point out that the timeline estimates completion by February
> 28. This is (hemispherically) March 1. And a Sunday. I suggest some
> patience :)​
>
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>
> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
> is in a personal capacity.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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