Mailing List Archive

[Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
Hi all,
I think it should be noted that the Russian Wikipedia is having more and
more problems with the state-maintained Internet blacklist (an idea that
they heavily opposed, and which made them go on strike last July).

Apparently, the infamous "cannabis smoking" article was put back on the
said blacklist two days ago (May 6)[1] due to a decision of the Federal
Drug Control Service which doesn't like the current wording of the
article. The blacklist now includes fifteen (15) articles related to
drugs and suicide: thirteen (13) from the Russian, and two (2) from the
English Wikipedia[2].

This is the second time that the Russian Wikipedia is having trouble
with the blacklist in the past 30 days, something that has unfortunately
been missed over the DCRI controversy that occurred in the first days of
April.

<shameless promotion>
For those of you who haven't heard of this yet, I prepared a short
summary at <http://twkozlowski.net/roskomnadzor-strikes-back/>; the
previous episode of the "Wikipedia vs. Roskomnadzor" story is described
at <http://twkozlowski.net/wikipedia-censorship-attempts/>.
</shameless promotion>

I'm quite sure that it is a mere coincidence that the Russian and French
controversies occurred around the same time, but it's nevertheless a bit
worrying to have to watch our communities being forced to edit the
contents of articles to please the authorities & take them off blacklists.

== References ==
* [1]
<http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130507/181016379/Wikipedia-Cannabis-Article-Put-Back-on-Russian-Blacklist.html>
* [2] http://tiny.cc/e7urww

-- Tomasz

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
These days I just say this report

- Less than 14% of World Lives in Countries with Free Press
<http://gijn.org/2013/05/07/less-than-14-of-the-world-lives-in-countries-with-a-free-press/>

It would be interesting a global comparison on how these States with
less freedom deal with Wikipedia. We could have a page with a table of
countries where Wikipedia is partially/totally blocked, among other
things.

I wonder how it will be when we begin to use Internet for real.

Tom

2013/5/8 Tomasz W. Kozlowski <tomasz@twkozlowski.net>:
> Hi all,
> I think it should be noted that the Russian Wikipedia is having more and
> more problems with the state-maintained Internet blacklist (an idea that
> they heavily opposed, and which made them go on strike last July).
>
> Apparently, the infamous "cannabis smoking" article was put back on the said
> blacklist two days ago (May 6)[1] due to a decision of the Federal Drug
> Control Service which doesn't like the current wording of the article. The
> blacklist now includes fifteen (15) articles related to drugs and suicide:
> thirteen (13) from the Russian, and two (2) from the English Wikipedia[2].
>
> This is the second time that the Russian Wikipedia is having trouble with
> the blacklist in the past 30 days, something that has unfortunately been
> missed over the DCRI controversy that occurred in the first days of April.
>
> <shameless promotion>
> For those of you who haven't heard of this yet, I prepared a short summary
> at <http://twkozlowski.net/roskomnadzor-strikes-back/>; the previous episode
> of the "Wikipedia vs. Roskomnadzor" story is described at
> <http://twkozlowski.net/wikipedia-censorship-attempts/>.
> </shameless promotion>
>
> I'm quite sure that it is a mere coincidence that the Russian and French
> controversies occurred around the same time, but it's nevertheless a bit
> worrying to have to watch our communities being forced to edit the contents
> of articles to please the authorities & take them off blacklists.
>
> == References ==
> * [1]
> <http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130507/181016379/Wikipedia-Cannabis-Article-Put-Back-on-Russian-Blacklist.html>
> * [2] http://tiny.cc/e7urww
>
> -- Tomasz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l



--
Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom)
OKFN Brasil - Rede pelo Conhecimento Livre
http://br.okfn.org

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Any details translated in English about what are the specific
"wording" on the articles that pushed the Russian State to blacklist
those articles?

Thanks,
JP aka Amqui

2013/5/8, Tomasz W. Kozlowski <tomasz@twkozlowski.net>:
> Hi all,
> I think it should be noted that the Russian Wikipedia is having more and
> more problems with the state-maintained Internet blacklist (an idea that
> they heavily opposed, and which made them go on strike last July).
>
> Apparently, the infamous "cannabis smoking" article was put back on the
> said blacklist two days ago (May 6)[1] due to a decision of the Federal
> Drug Control Service which doesn't like the current wording of the
> article. The blacklist now includes fifteen (15) articles related to
> drugs and suicide: thirteen (13) from the Russian, and two (2) from the
> English Wikipedia[2].
>
> This is the second time that the Russian Wikipedia is having trouble
> with the blacklist in the past 30 days, something that has unfortunately
> been missed over the DCRI controversy that occurred in the first days of
> April.
>
> <shameless promotion>
> For those of you who haven't heard of this yet, I prepared a short
> summary at <http://twkozlowski.net/roskomnadzor-strikes-back/>; the
> previous episode of the "Wikipedia vs. Roskomnadzor" story is described
> at <http://twkozlowski.net/wikipedia-censorship-attempts/>.
> </shameless promotion>
>
> I'm quite sure that it is a mere coincidence that the Russian and French
> controversies occurred around the same time, but it's nevertheless a bit
> worrying to have to watch our communities being forced to edit the
> contents of articles to please the authorities & take them off blacklists.
>
> == References ==
> * [1]
> <http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130507/181016379/Wikipedia-Cannabis-Article-Put-Back-on-Russian-Blacklist.html>
> * [2] http://tiny.cc/e7urww
>
> -- Tomasz
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
On 8 May 2013 16:52, Tomasz W. Kozlowski <tomasz@twkozlowski.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I think it should be noted that the Russian Wikipedia is having more and
> more problems with the state-maintained Internet blacklist (an idea that
> they heavily opposed, and which made them go on strike last July).
>
>
They folded the first time. Were they foolish enough to think that there
would not be a second?



--
geni
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Russian is an/the official language in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan,
Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldova, and Romania, and spoken in yet other
parts of the world. If Russian was only spoken within the borders of
Russia, then tailoring the articles to that country's censorship laws would
be pragmatic - at least they'd get something about marijuana smoking.

But I think the significant number of Russian-speakers outside Russia kind
of obliges us to just write good NPOV articles and let the Russian
authorities do what they want.






On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:19 AM, geni <geniice@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8 May 2013 16:52, Tomasz W. Kozlowski <tomasz@twkozlowski.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> > I think it should be noted that the Russian Wikipedia is having more and
> > more problems with the state-maintained Internet blacklist (an idea that
> > they heavily opposed, and which made them go on strike last July).
> >
> >
> They folded the first time. Were they foolish enough to think that there
> would not be a second?
>
>
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Amqui wrote:
> Any details translated in English about what are the specific
> "wording" on the articles that pushed the Russian State to blacklist
> those articles?

The community-maintained list of all blacklisted articles
<http://tiny.cc/e7urww> has all the necessary information; apparently
the articles are blacklisted because they contain information on the use
of the drugs, methods of their development and production, and in the
case of articles on suicide — information about methods of suicide.

That list is very informative; it has links to all decisions in PDF
format, dates, and numbers. Of course Google Translate doesn't provide
an exact translation, but it does all right.

-- Tomasz

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
2013/5/8 Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com>:
> Russian is an/the official language in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan,
> Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldova, and Romania, and spoken in yet other
> parts of the world.

You might want to update your info. The only official language in
Romania and Moldova is Romanian.

Strainu

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Correction: in Moldova, the official language is "Moldovan" ;) this is
a pandora's box one really doesn't want to open xD

However, Russian is an official language in Pridnestrovie, and also
every-day language in Gagauzia.

Back to scheduled programming......

On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:18 AM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2013/5/8 Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com>:
>> Russian is an/the official language in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan,
>> Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Moldova, and Romania, and spoken in yet other
>> parts of the world.
>
> You might want to update your info. The only official language in
> Romania and Moldova is Romanian.
>
> Strainu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
2013/5/8 Russavia <russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com>:
> Correction: in Moldova, the official language is "Moldovan" ;) this is
> a pandora's box one really doesn't want to open xD

Right, one might always read the English Wikipedia article and find
out we were both right (funny, huh? :) ) Totally agree that we don't
want to reopen this, though. Let's just say that Russian is NOT an
official language in Moldova.

>
> However, Russian is an official language in Pridnestrovie, and also
> every-day language in Gagauzia.

Please use English names where available, I had to google to find out
what "Pridnestrovie" is. I've never ever heard that name before.

Like Anthony said, there are many other places where Russian is
currently spoken, throughout Eastern Europe.

Strainu

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
> Right, one might always read the English Wikipedia article and find
> out we were both right (funny, huh? :) ) Totally agree that we don't
> want to reopen this, though. Let's just say that Russian is NOT an
> official language in Moldova.

Nice to work with you on this mailing list to reach a mutually
advantageous and NPOV position on this issue. :)

Russavia

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
I was relying on the infobox in English Wikipedia's article, "Russian
language." Is it safe to say Russian is spoken in many regions outside
Russia?


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Russavia <russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com>wrote:

> > Right, one might always read the English Wikipedia article and find
> > out we were both right (funny, huh? :) ) Totally agree that we don't
> > want to reopen this, though. Let's just say that Russian is NOT an
> > official language in Moldova.
>
> Nice to work with you on this mailing list to reach a mutually
> advantageous and NPOV position on this issue. :)
>
> Russavia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Yes, it is :) I'm not sure the actual point you were trying to make
stands, though. Even if Russian would only be spoken in Russia, it
still wouldn't be a reason to give in to censorship pressure. But of
course, I'm talking from a country who doesn't have these problems so
openly...

Strainu

2013/5/9 Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com>:
> I was relying on the infobox in English Wikipedia's article, "Russian
> language." Is it safe to say Russian is spoken in many regions outside
> Russia?
>
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Russavia <russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> > Right, one might always read the English Wikipedia article and find
>> > out we were both right (funny, huh? :) ) Totally agree that we don't
>> > want to reopen this, though. Let's just say that Russian is NOT an
>> > official language in Moldova.
>>
>> Nice to work with you on this mailing list to reach a mutually
>> advantageous and NPOV position on this issue. :)
>>
>> Russavia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
In your hypothetical case of Russian only being spoken in one country that
censors "how to smoke marijuana" information:

If you insist on leaving a paragraph on "how to make a bong" in the
Russian-language "Marijuana smoking" article, then the article won't be
accessible to 140,000,000 people; if you remove that paragraph (and any
others that are censored), the article, and its information about
psychosis, respiratory effects, geographic distribution, history,
correlation with tobacco smoking, gateway to harder drugs hypothesis, etc.
will be available to 140,000,000 people.

We would be failing in our mission to disseminate educational information
effectively and globally if, due to an ideological attachment to
NOTCENSORED, we took the former option.

If, however, there is a significant population outside Russia whose first
language is Russian, and who don't read one of the other main Wikipedia
languages, it's a more difficult decision. Do we deny them the bong-making
instructions so as to provide the remainder of the article to the Russian
readers?

I know what I'd do in that example. But my attachment to NOTCENSORED
doesn't trump my attachment to our mission.


On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Strainu <strainu10@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, it is :) I'm not sure the actual point you were trying to make
> stands, though. Even if Russian would only be spoken in Russia, it
> still wouldn't be a reason to give in to censorship pressure. But of
> course, I'm talking from a country who doesn't have these problems so
> openly...
>
> Strainu
>
> 2013/5/9 Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com>:
> > I was relying on the infobox in English Wikipedia's article, "Russian
> > language." Is it safe to say Russian is spoken in many regions outside
> > Russia?
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:42 AM, Russavia <russavia.wikipedia@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> > Right, one might always read the English Wikipedia article and find
> >> > out we were both right (funny, huh? :) ) Totally agree that we don't
> >> > want to reopen this, though. Let's just say that Russian is NOT an
> >> > official language in Moldova.
> >>
> >> Nice to work with you on this mailing list to reach a mutually
> >> advantageous and NPOV position on this issue. :)
> >>
> >> Russavia
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
On 9 May 2013 12:19, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com> wrote:

> In your hypothetical case of Russian only being spoken in one country that
> censors "how to smoke marijuana" information:
>
> If you insist on leaving a paragraph on "how to make a bong" in the
> Russian-language "Marijuana smoking" article, then the article won't be
> accessible to 140,000,000 people; if you remove that paragraph (and any
> others that are censored), the article, and its information about
> psychosis, respiratory effects, geographic distribution, history,
> correlation with tobacco smoking, gateway to harder drugs hypothesis, etc.
> will be available to 140,000,000 people.
>


The problem is that in the real world it doesn't stop there. States that
have found it easy to censor you once will continue doing so. Today its
about drugs tomorrow its Kirill I of Moscow's watch day after that its
anything critical of Putin. Since this is Russia I expect coverage of the
issue of homosexuality could get interesting.


--
geni
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
On 05/09/2013 07:19 AM, Anthony Cole wrote:
> We would be failing in our mission to disseminate educational information
> effectively and globally if, due to an ideological attachment to
> NOTCENSORED, we took the former option.

You're saying this as though those things were orthogonal to each other.
They are not. When we bow to random entities' wishes of what is
"correct" educational information, you've already fatally compromised
that mission.

Should we remove the articles about Tibet from zhwp so that the PRC is
more accepting of Wikipedia?

-- Coren / Marc


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
> On 9 May 2013 12:19, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In your hypothetical case of Russian only being spoken in one country
>> that
>> censors "how to smoke marijuana" information:
>>
>> If you insist on leaving a paragraph on "how to make a bong" in the
>> Russian-language "Marijuana smoking" article, then the article won't be
>> accessible to 140,000,000 people; if you remove that paragraph (and any
>> others that are censored), the article, and its information about
>> psychosis, respiratory effects, geographic distribution, history,
>> correlation with tobacco smoking, gateway to harder drugs hypothesis,
>> etc.
>> will be available to 140,000,000 people.
>>
>
>
> The problem is that in the real world it doesn't stop there. States that
> have found it easy to censor you once will continue doing so. Today its
> about drugs tomorrow its Kirill I of Moscow's watch day after that its
> anything critical of Putin. Since this is Russia I expect coverage of the
> issue of homosexuality could get interesting.
>
>
> --
> geni

The Russian government censors historically and can be expected to do so
in the future. A dryer iteration of the marijuana article, omitting how
to grow and smoke as well as how "wonderful" dope is, will probably pass.
Remember, "assume good faith"? It is easy enough to work around, "Lucy in
the Sky with Diamonds" is not censored. I don't think the "slippery
slope" is all that slippery.

Fred



_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
> On 05/09/2013 07:19 AM, Anthony Cole wrote:
>> We would be failing in our mission to disseminate educational
>> information
>> effectively and globally if, due to an ideological attachment to
>> NOTCENSORED, we took the former option.
>
> You're saying this as though those things were orthogonal to each other.
> They are not. When we bow to random entities' wishes of what is
> "correct" educational information, you've already fatally compromised
> that mission.
>
> Should we remove the articles about Tibet from zhwp so that the PRC is
> more accepting of Wikipedia?
>
> -- Coren / Marc

No, but including accurate information about the conditions of life of
the serfs and slaves of old Tibet, and the ridiculous superstitions of
the lamas will go a long way toward lifting blocking of those pages.

Fred


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees regularly in new editors, ones who misunderstand NPOV thinking that it is a simple formula of good stuff + critical stuff == balanced article. Adding Chinese anti-Tibetan propaganda in order to appease them is not a sensible idea.


> Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 06:14:16 -0600
> From: fredbaud@fairpoint.net
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
>
> > On 05/09/2013 07:19 AM, Anthony Cole wrote:
> >> We would be failing in our mission to disseminate educational
> >> information
> >> effectively and globally if, due to an ideological attachment to
> >> NOTCENSORED, we took the former option.
> >
> > You're saying this as though those things were orthogonal to each other.
> > They are not. When we bow to random entities' wishes of what is
> > "correct" educational information, you've already fatally compromised
> > that mission.
> >
> > Should we remove the articles about Tibet from zhwp so that the PRC is
> > more accepting of Wikipedia?
> >
> > -- Coren / Marc
>
> No, but including accurate information about the conditions of life of
> the serfs and slaves of old Tibet, and the ridiculous superstitions of
> the lamas will go a long way toward lifting blocking of those pages.
>
> Fred
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
On 9 May 2013 20:34, Tarc Meridian <tarc@hotmail.com> wrote:

> What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees regularly in new editors,


Fred's been on Wikipedia since it was wikipedia.com, so you may wish
to reread his comment in that light.


- d.

_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Highlighting the fact that such an old hand was making a rookie-like "mistake" was actually, y'know, the point.


> From: dgerard@gmail.com
> Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 20:42:06 +0100
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
>
> On 9 May 2013 20:34, Tarc Meridian <tarc@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees regularly in new editors,
>
>
> Fred's been on Wikipedia since it was wikipedia.com, so you may wish
> to reread his comment in that light.
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
I've also done a great deal of editing of Tibetan articles. I wish there
was a way to transport you back in time to old Tibet.

Fred

>
> Highlighting the fact that such an old hand was making a rookie-like
> "mistake" was actually, y'know, the point.
>
>
>> From: dgerard@gmail.com
>> Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 20:42:06 +0100
>> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
>>
>> On 9 May 2013 20:34, Tarc Meridian <tarc@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees
>> regularly in new editors,
>>
>>
>> Fred's been on Wikipedia since it was wikipedia.com, so you may wish
>> to reread his comment in that light.
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Hey Tarc!


On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@fairpoint.net> wrote:

> I've also done a great deal of editing of Tibetan articles. I wish there
> was a way to transport you back in time to old Tibet.
>
> Fred
>
> >
> > Highlighting the fact that such an old hand was making a rookie-like
> > "mistake" was actually, y'know, the point.
> >
> >
> >> From: dgerard@gmail.com
> >> Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 20:42:06 +0100
> >> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
> >>
> >> On 9 May 2013 20:34, Tarc Meridian <tarc@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees
> >> regularly in new editors,
> >>
> >>
> >> Fred's been on Wikipedia since it was wikipedia.com, so you may wish
> >> to reread his comment in that light.
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again [ In reply to ]
Coren / Marc wrote:
>Should we remove the articles about Tibet from zhwp
>so that the PRC is more accepting of Wikipedia?

No. I don't think we should modify our content to conform to the will of
authoritarian censors, as a rule. I guess I'm saying it's not appropriate
to be rule-bound. Generally, because of large language diasporas, we have
no choice but to print and be damned, but there will be cases where
dropping a bit of "how to" information will allow an article to skirt the
censor, and in such a case, I'd drop it.



On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 9:05 AM, Anthony Cole <ahcoleecu@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Tarc!
>
>
> On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:55 AM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud@fairpoint.net>wrote:
>
>> I've also done a great deal of editing of Tibetan articles. I wish there
>> was a way to transport you back in time to old Tibet.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> >
>> > Highlighting the fact that such an old hand was making a rookie-like
>> > "mistake" was actually, y'know, the point.
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: dgerard@gmail.com
>> >> Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 20:42:06 +0100
>> >> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Russian Wikipedia in blacklist trouble again
>> >>
>> >> On 9 May 2013 20:34, Tarc Meridian <tarc@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > What a terribly ill-informed comment. This is something one sees
>> >> regularly in new editors,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Fred's been on Wikipedia since it was wikipedia.com, so you may wish
>> >> to reread his comment in that light.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - d.
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l