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[Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette
Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
department called the “Legal and Community Advocacy Department.” This new
alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community
advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details,
please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.

As part of this reorganization, I’m pleased to announce that Philippe
Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period
with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it
will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
department at full speed.

The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss
the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat
can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.

Geoff Brigham
General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation
Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On 9 February 2012 23:49, Geoff Brigham <gbrigham@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> department called the “Legal and Community Advocacy Department.”  This new
> alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community
> advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation.   For details,
> please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
>
> As part of this reorganization, I’m pleased to announce that Philippe
> Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy.  We will
> start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period
> with it to brainstorm how to build the department.  We anticipate that it
> will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
> department at full speed.
>
> The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss
> the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department.  Details for the IRC chat
> can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.

Fantastic news. Congratulations, Philippe!

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester@wikimedia.org | jdforrester@gmail.com
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Geoff Brigham wrote:
> Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This new
> alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community
> advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For details,
> please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
>
> As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
> Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
> start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period
> with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it
> will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
> department at full speed.
>
> The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss
> the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC chat
> can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.

A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
Board have said they're okay with this?

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
mentioned at all.

What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
roles and flavors.

So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
that even resembles it. :)

There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.

pb
___________________
Philippe Beaudette
Director, Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

415-839-6885, x 6643

philippe@wikimedia.org

To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to
respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy



On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:

> Geoff Brigham wrote:
> > Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> > department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This
> new
> > alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and community
> > advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> > consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
> details,
> > please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
> >
> > As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
> > Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
> > start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation period
> > with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that it
> > will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
> > department at full speed.
> >
> > The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to discuss
> > the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
> chat
> > can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
>
> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
> Board have said they're okay with this?
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I think the better question is "what will this department actually do?"

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Philippe Beaudette
<philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:

> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
> mentioned at all.
>
> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> roles and flavors.
>
> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> that even resembles it. :)
>
> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.
>
> pb
> ___________________
> Philippe Beaudette
> Director, Community Advocacy
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>
> philippe@wikimedia.org
>
> To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to
> respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
>
> > Geoff Brigham wrote:
> > > Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> > > department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This
> > new
> > > alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
> community
> > > advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> > > consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
> > details,
> > > please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
> > >
> > > As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
> > > Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
> > > start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
> period
> > > with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that
> it
> > > will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
> > > department at full speed.
> > >
> > > The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
> discuss
> > > the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
> > chat
> > > can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
> >
> > A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
> > Board have said they're okay with this?
> >
> > MZMcBride
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On 10 February 2012 02:32, Mono <monomium@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the better question is "what will this department actually do?"
>
> " For details, please go to
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement."
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Obviously, we have some ideas - several of them are listed in the
announcement page. However, one of the most exciting bits of this is
that since it's a community advocacy department, we're asking you to
help us define that. There's a page on meta (also linked from the
announcement page), and an IRC chat tomorrow to kick that off. :)

pb

On Thu Feb 9 18:32:42 2012, Mono wrote:
> I think the better question is "what will this department actually do?"
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Philippe Beaudette
> <philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:
>
>> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
>> mentioned at all.
>>
>> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
>> roles and flavors.
>>
>> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
>> that even resembles it. :)
>>
>> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.
>>
>> pb
>> ___________________
>> Philippe Beaudette
>> Director, Community Advocacy
>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>
>> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>>
>> philippe@wikimedia.org
>>
>> To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to
>> respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Geoff Brigham wrote:
>>>> Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
>>>> department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This
>>> new
>>>> alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
>> community
>>>> advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
>>>> consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
>>> details,
>>>> please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
>>>>
>>>> As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
>>>> Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
>>>> start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
>> period
>>>> with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that
>> it
>>>> will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
>>>> department at full speed.
>>>>
>>>> The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
>> discuss
>>>> the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
>>> chat
>>>> can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
>>>
>>> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
>>> Board have said they're okay with this?
>>>
>>> MZMcBride
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that
the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not
that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be
(in part) focusing on "...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard
the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions
that support our movement." but it also says that you'll be "Setting up
international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of
administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can
better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms,
checkusers, OTRS, etc.)". Finally, it also says "This change will transfer
the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and
Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community
Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and
fundraising strategy and implementation".

From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the
*existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it)
and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as
helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.).
This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users
and on the annual fundraiser.

Is that a fair assessment?

Peace, love & metadata


On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:

> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
> mentioned at all.
>
> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> roles and flavors.
>
> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> that even resembles it. :)
>
> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.
>
> pb
> ___________________
> Philippe Beaudette
> Director, Community Advocacy
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>
> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>
> philippe@wikimedia.org
>
> To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to
> respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
>
> > Geoff Brigham wrote:
> > > Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> > > department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This
> > new
> > > alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
> community
> > > advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> > > consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
> > details,
> > > please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
> > >
> > > As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
> > > Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
> > > start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
> period
> > > with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that
> it
> > > will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
> > > department at full speed.
> > >
> > > The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
> discuss
> > > the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
> > chat
> > > can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
> >
> > A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
> > Board have said they're okay with this?
> >
> > MZMcBride
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Quite right, inasmuch as any of our jobs can work in that much of an
insular fashion. We'll do quite a bit of dealing with the external
community (defending takedown challenges, etc), but you're quite right
that it's in a posture of focusing on the existing community. However,
our hope is that through this, we can encourage further organic growth
of the community, as well as protect the community that we have.

pb

On 2/9/12 6:35 PM, Liam Wyatt wrote:
> I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that
> the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not
> that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be
> (in part) focusing on "...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard
> the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions
> that support our movement." but it also says that you'll be "Setting up
> international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of
> administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can
> better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms,
> checkusers, OTRS, etc.)". Finally, it also says "This change will transfer
> the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and
> Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community
> Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and
> fundraising strategy and implementation".
>
> From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the
> *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it)
> and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as
> helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.).
> This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users
> and on the annual fundraiser.
>
> Is that a fair assessment?
>
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:
>
>> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
>> mentioned at all.
>>
>> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
>> roles and flavors.
>>
>> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
>> that even resembles it. :)
>>
>> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.
>>
>> pb
>> ___________________
>> Philippe Beaudette
>> Director, Community Advocacy
>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>
>> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>>
>> philippe@wikimedia.org
>>
>> To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me to
>> respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Geoff Brigham wrote:
>>>> Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
>>>> department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.² This
>>> new
>>>> alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
>> community
>>>> advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
>>>> consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
>>> details,
>>>> please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
>>>>
>>>> As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
>>>> Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We will
>>>> start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
>> period
>>>> with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate that
>> it
>>>> will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the new
>>>> department at full speed.
>>>>
>>>> The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
>> discuss
>>>> the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
>>> chat
>>>> can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
>>> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
>>> Board have said they're okay with this?
>>>
>>> MZMcBride
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I believe Liam puts it very close to how I read the announcement.

Does this mean Pb is a Chief now? or will that department still be under
community/Zack?

Also, how does the relation between legal come into this. Is Geoff also in
charge of this department or is legal separate from this?

And before I forget, Congratulations Pb!

Regards
Theo

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that
> the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not
> that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be
> (in part) focusing on "...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard
> the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions
> that support our movement." but it also says that you'll be "Setting up
> international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of
> administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can
> better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms,
> checkusers, OTRS, etc.)". Finally, it also says "This change will transfer
> the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and
> Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community
> Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and
> fundraising strategy and implementation".
>
> From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the
> *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it)
> and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as
> helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.).
> This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users
> and on the annual fundraiser.
>
> Is that a fair assessment?
>
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org
> >wrote:
>
> > I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were
> not
> > mentioned at all.
> >
> > What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> > roles and flavors.
> >
> > So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> > that even resembles it. :)
> >
> > There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the
> announcement.
> >
> > pb
> > ___________________
> > Philippe Beaudette
> > Director, Community Advocacy
> > Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >
> > 415-839-6885, x 6643
> >
> > philippe@wikimedia.org
> >
> > To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me
> to
> > respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Geoff Brigham wrote:
> > > > Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
> > > > department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.²
> This
> > > new
> > > > alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
> > community
> > > > advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
> > > > consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
> > > details,
> > > > please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
> > > >
> > > > As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
> > > > Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We
> will
> > > > start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
> > period
> > > > with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate
> that
> > it
> > > > will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the
> new
> > > > department at full speed.
> > > >
> > > > The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
> > discuss
> > > > the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
> > > chat
> > > > can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
> > >
> > > A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community
> and
> > > Board have said they're okay with this?
> > >
> > > MZMcBride
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
No, I report to Geoff. Geoff is the "Chief" for the legal and
community advocacy department. I run the C.A. side of it. :-)

On Thu Feb 9 18:48:34 2012, Theo10011 wrote:
> I believe Liam puts it very close to how I read the announcement.
>
> Does this mean Pb is a Chief now? or will that department still be under
> community/Zack?
>
> Also, how does the relation between legal come into this. Is Geoff also in
> charge of this department or is legal separate from this?
>
> And before I forget, Congratulations Pb!
>
> Regards
> Theo
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:05 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'll admit that that's what I thought it meant when I read it too - that
>> the WMF was setting up a congressional lobbying department. So it's not
>> that an outrageous thing to assume. From the link it says that you will be
>> (in part) focusing on "...seeking ways to increase capacity to safeguard
>> the movement’s reputation and support the advancement of legal conditions
>> that support our movement." but it also says that you'll be "Setting up
>> international meet-ups that recognize and support the role of
>> administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that WMF can
>> better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g., Arbcoms,
>> checkusers, OTRS, etc.)". Finally, it also says "This change will transfer
>> the community liaison and advocate responsibilities to the Legal and
>> Community Advocacy team. This move will allow Zack Exley, Chief Community
>> Officer, and his team to focus on editor retention and recruitment work and
>> fundraising strategy and implementation".
>>
>> From this I understand that the new department will be focused on the
>> *existing* community (especially those with specialised roles within it)
>> and also on the legal aspects of defending free-knowledge globally (such as
>> helping Chapters to write submissions to Government policy reviews etc.).
>> This will leave Zack's existing department to focus on recruiting new users
>> and on the annual fundraiser.
>>
>> Is that a fair assessment?
>>
>> Peace, love & metadata
>>
>>
>> On 10 February 2012 13:23, Philippe Beaudette <philippe@wikimedia.org
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were
>> not
>>> mentioned at all.
>>>
>>> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
>>> roles and flavors.
>>>
>>> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
>>> that even resembles it. :)
>>>
>>> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the
>> announcement.
>>>
>>> pb
>>> ___________________
>>> Philippe Beaudette
>>> Director, Community Advocacy
>>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>>>
>>> 415-839-6885, x 6643
>>>
>>> philippe@wikimedia.org
>>>
>>> To check my email volume (and thus know approx how long it will take me
>> to
>>> respond), go to http://courteous.ly/hpQmqy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:08 PM, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Geoff Brigham wrote:
>>>>> Today, we are excited to announce the start of our building of a new
>>>>> department called the ³Legal and Community Advocacy Department.²
>> This
>>>> new
>>>>> alignment recognizes that we can combine the best of legal and
>>> community
>>>>> advocacy to foster new ways to advance the interests of the community
>>>>> consistent with the goals and strategies of the Foundation. For
>>>> details,
>>>>> please go to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/LCA_Announcement.
>>>>>
>>>>> As part of this reorganization, I¹m pleased to announce that Philippe
>>>>> Beaudette has been promoted to Director of Community Advocacy. We
>> will
>>>>> start engaging our community shortly and enter into a consultation
>>> period
>>>>> with it to brainstorm how to build the department. We anticipate
>> that
>>> it
>>>>> will take us about 6-12 months to get the right team and drive the
>> new
>>>>> department at full speed.
>>>>>
>>>>> The community is invited to join us on Friday for office hours to
>>> discuss
>>>>> the new Legal and Community Advocacy Department. Details for the IRC
>>>> chat
>>>>> can be found at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours.
>>>>
>>>> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community
>> and
>>>> Board have said they're okay with this?
>>>>
>>>> MZMcBride
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Philippe Beaudette
<philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:

> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
> mentioned at all.
>
> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> roles and flavors.
>
> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> that even resembles it. :)
>
> There's a reasonable discussion in the page, linked from the announcement.
>
> pb
>


Well, what do "fighting for content online", "providing information about
legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and
censorship", and "support the advancement of legal conditions that enable
unimpeded access to information online, worldwide" mean?

Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of
the recent SOPA blackout?

"We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and
legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the
interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the
community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our
communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of
the global community is heard on important initiatives."

How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying
organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for
favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics?

A.
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On 2/9/12 7:19 PM, Andreas K. wrote:
>
>
>
> Well, what do "fighting for content online", "providing information about
> legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and
> censorship", and "support the advancement of legal conditions that enable
> unimpeded access to information online, worldwide" mean?

Fighting for content online includes thing such as pushing back against
DMCA takedowns, etc. Providing information about legislative
initiatives is just that - making sure that our community is aware of
things that are going on. More specifically, building (from within the
community) the ability to track that sort of thing. That's an area
where crowdsourcing works very very well.
>
> Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of
> the recent SOPA blackout?

No. It was conceived of prior to that, in fact.
>
> "We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and
> legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the
> interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the
> community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our
> communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of
> the global community is heard on important initiatives."
>
> How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying
> organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for
> favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics?
By providing our community with the knowledge and the tools to do it...
through creative education, and early involvement in decision making to
attempt to provide us with more options than the full SOPA blackout.
The whole idea here is to increase community capacity, not to lobby.
:-) Although it is possible that there will be (at some point) a
legislative affairs person, for instance, who would track legislation
and provide subject matter expertise on process, that's a far cry from a
traditional lobbying effort.

pb

>

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I'm all for a shift from the community department, and dividing focus
between existing community and things like new editor retention. Zack and
the community department, primarily focus on fundraising, with only
indirect involvement with the existing community affairs through Philippe,
Maggie and others. It seems like an efficient move to give them some room
and autonomy.

However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire
community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind,
before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is
something we should seek actively? The strategic plan and individual board
members covered this issue in passing several times, but as far as I know,
there is no official community-ratified outline or policy to warrant an
active involvement at this stage.

Issues like SOPA are rare, they come up once in a while. It was the only
one of its kind that required such strong action in the last few years I
can remember. I'm not sure if an advocacy department already, is a good
thing. Especially, if actions like the Italian Wikipedia blackout prove
that local communities are quiet capable of doing this on their own,
without the involvement or even the knowledge of WMF.

The issue with SOPA blackout was different, the communication from WMF was
constantly that it is the community's decision, and the foundation will
support what the community decides. There was a quick vote and not long
after, a blackout. Then the impression seems to have shifted that it was
WMF who took that decision, and everyone agreed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, Advocacy is a sensitive area. I really
think if we venture too far into this territory, we might loose our
neutrality. Encyclopedias, historically have little to do with politics and
political advocacy, the only exception that can be agreed upon is, related
to things that affect the existence and pursuit of the mission. Those are
quiet rare to warrant an entire department already.

Regards
Theo

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Philippe Beaudette
<philippe@wikimedia.org>wrote:

>
>
> On 2/9/12 7:19 PM, Andreas K. wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, what do "fighting for content online", "providing information about
> > legislative initiatives worldwide that impact online content and
> > censorship", and "support the advancement of legal conditions that enable
> > unimpeded access to information online, worldwide" mean?
>
> Fighting for content online includes thing such as pushing back against
> DMCA takedowns, etc. Providing information about legislative
> initiatives is just that - making sure that our community is aware of
> things that are going on. More specifically, building (from within the
> community) the ability to track that sort of thing. That's an area
> where crowdsourcing works very very well.
> >
> > Is this program not in one way or another the result and an extension of
> > the recent SOPA blackout?
>
> No. It was conceived of prior to that, in fact.
> >
> > "We have found that our community has a keen interest in legal and
> > legislative issues (and the policy makers in those areas return the
> > interest), so we would like to explore new ways to support better the
> > community within the goals of the Foundation. We want to improve our
> > communication with international communities, ensuring that the voice of
> > the global community is heard on important initiatives."
> >
> > How does this not mean that Wikimedia will in part be a lobbying
> > organisation? Or in other words, how can you advocate effectively for
> > favourable legal conditions without involving lobbying and politics?
> By providing our community with the knowledge and the tools to do it...
> through creative education, and early involvement in decision making to
> attempt to provide us with more options than the full SOPA blackout.
> The whole idea here is to increase community capacity, not to lobby.
> :-) Although it is possible that there will be (at some point) a
> legislative affairs person, for instance, who would track legislation
> and provide subject matter expertise on process, that's a far cry from a
> traditional lobbying effort.
>
> pb
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Philippe Beaudette wrote:
> MZMcBride wrote:
>> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community and
>> Board have said they're okay with this?
>
> I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were not
> mentioned at all.
>
> What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> roles and flavors.
>
> So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> that even resembles it. :)

I think, even if Wikimedia staff strictly adheres to the terms "advocacy"
and "community advocacy," this fails the duck test.[1]

If it's lobbying and political action that people (the Wikimedia community
and the Wikimedia Board and other stakeholders) really want the Wikimedia
Foundation engaged in, I can't do much to stop that (except leave). But I'm
reasonably confident that most people in the Wikimedia community aren't in
favor of Wikimedia being a political action committee.

So I suppose I'll ask again: has the Wikimedia community or the Wikimedia
Board expressed support of going forward with this?

MZMcBride

[1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duck_test#Etymology



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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On 10 February 2012 14:43, MZMcBride <z@mzmcbride.com> wrote:

> Philippe Beaudette wrote:
> > MZMcBride wrote:
> >> A political (lobbying?) arm of Wikimedia? And the Wikimedia community
> and
> >> Board have said they're okay with this?
> >
> > I'm not really sure where you get that, MZ. Politics and lobbying were
> not
> > mentioned at all.
> >
> > What was mentioned was advocacy... advocacy for the community, in varying
> > roles and flavors.
> >
> > So to clear it up: this is not a lobbying or political wing. Or anything
> > that even resembles it. :)
>
> I think, even if Wikimedia staff strictly adheres to the terms "advocacy"
> and "community advocacy," this fails the duck test.[1]
>
> If it's lobbying and political action that people (the Wikimedia community
> and the Wikimedia Board and other stakeholders) really want the Wikimedia
> Foundation engaged in, I can't do much to stop that (except leave). But I'm
> reasonably confident that most people in the Wikimedia community aren't in
> favor of Wikimedia being a political action committee.
>
> So I suppose I'll ask again: has the Wikimedia community or the Wikimedia
> Board expressed support of going forward with this?
>
> MZMcBride
>
> [1] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duck_test#Etymology
>
>
>
As a matter of general principle, I too would like to know whether the WMF
Board is consulted and/or informed and/or formally approved the creation of
new departments or general major organisation re-shuffling. I don't mind
who actually gets to make "the announcement" first, but I think things on
this scale (setting up a new division of the organisation) should be
dependent on board approval. Also, it would have been nice to see some
discussion and buildup to this (or any) new department or major project
rather than merely announcing it one day, "ta da!" style, and expecting
that the community wouldn't make assumptions about why it was kept secret
in the first place.

With the specifics of "is this a political lobbying wing of the WMF or
not"...
I think it is quite clear to everyone that Wikimedians have a hard time
agreeing about *anything* but that the two things we all agree on is "Free"
(in the technical sense) and that providing a neutral source of information
is itself an inherently non-neutral activity. We spent quite a lot of time
talking about the legislative environments where we live (and how
that interacts with USA laws), what rules govern freedom of panorama in xyz
country, who can request takedown of what content in what circumstances,
whether we can provide workaround methods for accessing the content in
censoring counties, etc. etc. So, in that light it makes perfect sense to
me that there should be a group of people at the WMF dedicated to
supporting individuals and Chapters to learn more about those kinds of
things and to advocate for a "free culture" position when appropriate.
It is in no way against the WMF's (or Chapter's) mission to "advocate" in
the way it has done in the past, to general community acclaim, with for
example,
- Mike's brilliant response letter to the CIA takedown notice
http://mashable.com/2010/08/03/wikipedia-fbi-seal/
- Geoff's filing of an amicus brief to the Goldman v. Holder case
http://www.librarycopyrightalliance.org/submissions/domestic/amicus.shtml
- Submissions to government policy reviews such as that written by the
Research Committee
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Committee/Areas_of_interest/Open-access_policy/EU_Consultation_on_scientific_information_in_the_digital_age

I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the
"advocacy" aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to
see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is
being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at
WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is "project manager - politics and
society" and it's his job to help write submissions to the German
parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years.

So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing
too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to
others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like
this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over
time.

-Liam
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
2012/2/10 Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com>:

>
> With the specifics of "is this a political lobbying wing of the WMF or
> not"...
> I think it is quite clear to everyone that Wikimedians have a hard time
> agreeing about *anything* but that the two things we all agree on is "Free"
> (in the technical sense) and that providing a neutral source of information
> is itself an inherently non-neutral activity. We spent quite a lot of time
> talking about the legislative environments where we live (and how
> that interacts with USA laws), what rules govern freedom of panorama in xyz
> country, who can request takedown of what content in what circumstances,
> whether we can provide workaround methods for accessing the content in
> censoring counties, etc. etc. So, in that light it makes perfect sense to
> me that there should be a group of people at the WMF dedicated to
> supporting individuals and Chapters to learn more about those kinds of
> things and to advocate for a "free culture" position when appropriate.
> It is in no way against the WMF's (or Chapter's) mission to "advocate" in
> the way it has done in the past, to general community acclaim, with for
> example,
> - Mike's brilliant response letter to the CIA takedown notice
> http://mashable.com/2010/08/03/wikipedia-fbi-seal/
> - Geoff's filing of an amicus brief to the Goldman v. Holder case
> http://www.librarycopyrightalliance.org/submissions/domestic/amicus.shtml
> - Submissions to government policy reviews such as that written by the
> Research Committee
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Committee/Areas_of_interest/Open-access_policy/EU_Consultation_on_scientific_information_in_the_digital_age
>
To add one more example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/News_and_notes#Wikimedia_Foundation_joins_protest_against_Obama.27s_RIAA_appointments

> I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the
> "advocacy" aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to
> see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is
> being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at
> WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is "project manager - politics and
> society" and it's his job to help write submissions to the German
> parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years.
>
> So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing
> too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to
> others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like
> this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over
> time.
>
> -Liam
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Liam Wyatt wrote:
> I imagine that it is this kind of thing that would be in the scope of the
> "advocacy" aspect of this new department. Certainly, I too do not want to
> see an overt political lobbying department created, but that is not what is
> being created. For comparison, the formal job title of Mathias Schindler at
> WM-DE, if I understand correctly, is "project manager - politics and
> society" and it's his job to help write submissions to the German
> parliament when applicable. He's been doing this task for years.

Y'know, the CentralNotice extension was originally written for fundraising
banners and campaigns. Eventually people liked its power enough that they
started using it for other interwiki communications. And then a few people
had the idea of using it to turn the English Wikipedia off(!) in protest of
bills in the U.S. Congress that they didn't like very much.

You'll have to forgive me for thinking that what started as a "one-time
protest" that has now (quickly) morphed into an entire department of the
Wikimedia Foundation will not one day be engaged in political lobbying.
Likely with the help of the lobbying organization that Wikimedia has already
engaged and employed.

I will give credit to the Wikimedia Foundation for having the _cojones_ to
try to portray this as "community advocacy." It certainly takes a large
brass pair.

> So... vigilance required to make sure we're not losing our way by focusing
> too much on the politics, but we shouldn't be ignoring it or leaving it to
> others to sort out either. From what that project page says it looks like
> this strikes a good balance and we'll see how the department evolves over
> time.

Respectfully, I don't think this is as much about being vigilant as it is
about saying that the bullets should be taken out of the gun rather than
leaving it loaded on the table. I don't foresee a lot of good coming from
this (predictable) step by the Wikimedia Foundation, but I do foresee quite
a lot of bad. Politics has awesome power... it quite often tears
organizations apart.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Theo10011 <de10011@gmail.com> wrote:
> However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire
> community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind,
> before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it is
> something we should seek actively?

"Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
behalf of the community.

The new "Community Advocacy" staff do what they've always done --
represent the community to the Wikimedia Foundation, liaise, and
advocate for their issues. Taking into account Philippe's last role,
reader relations, it probably also includes advocating for the readers
as well. This just spins it off into its own department and gives it a
name that more clearly defines what it does.

Many organizations, especially membership associations, have positions
devoted to advocacy like this. They're the contact people that
represent the broader group to the rest of the organization and bring
up issues that they want dealt with.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Theo10011 <de10011@gmail.com> wrote:
> > However, the issue of advocacy is not generally agreed upon by the entire
> > community. SOPA blackout was the first and official action of its kind,
> > before we consider an advocacy department, do we have consensus that it
> is
> > something we should seek actively?
>
> "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
> seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
> something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
> it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
> behalf of the community.
>
> The new "Community Advocacy" staff do what they've always done --
> represent the community to the Wikimedia Foundation, liaise, and
> advocate for their issues. Taking into account Philippe's last role,
> reader relations, it probably also includes advocating for the readers
> as well. This just spins it off into its own department and gives it a
> name that more clearly defines what it does.
>
> Many organizations, especially membership associations, have positions
> devoted to advocacy like this. They're the contact people that
> represent the broader group to the rest of the organization and bring
> up issues that they want dealt with.


Hi Casey

I took "Advocacy" to mean the same as its dictionary definition - "Public
support for or recommendation of a particular cause or policy."

What you are describing falls more under the purview of Communications. If
you need a separate department to communicate to WMF the wishes of its
community, than I must inform you, that the several existing department -
starting with the community department, any internal communication even the
global development department are useless. What you are talking about is
similar to internal communications.

WMF is there to serve the community, if this department is being created
for the purpose of advocating community wishes to WMF, than it is about
time; only 5-6 years late. The issue comes in when it is joined together
with the legal department and given the scope of "Community advocacy". This
smells of advocating on behalf of the community, to whom we can differ on,
but the way SOPA blackout was handled leads me to believe that there is
going to be a strong handed approach to this. As I stated earlier, the
community is very capable of communicating its advocacy wishes, and taking
action without even the knowledge of WMF.

I do have to state, that the precedent set after the SOPA blackout, and
engaging a lobbying firm, points to this being an extension of similar
activities. Individual board members have already stated their support for
active advocacy for the movement. This does not seem like what you are
describing, which seems more like community liaison work, which actually
should have been the Community department's job since its inception.

Regards
Theo
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org> wrote:
> "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
> seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
> something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
> it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
> behalf of the community.

Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think
the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's
pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what
they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth.

Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we
should be choosing simple, crisp & clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn
the chart on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement
and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page
for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no
criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of
communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but
it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have
very little time and interest to parse it.

I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be
utilized and further advertised in coming days:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy

Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think
it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll
generate lots of tangible value for the community.

--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
Congratulations! I think this is a valuable effort in the right direction.

anirudh


On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org> wrote:
> > "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
> > seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
> > something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
> > it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
> > behalf of the community.
>
> Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think
> the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's
> pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what
> they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth.
>
> Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we
> should be choosing simple, crisp & clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn
> the chart on
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement
> and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page
> for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no
> criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of
> communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but
> it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have
> very little time and interest to parse it.
>
> I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be
> utilized and further advertised in coming days:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy
>
> Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think
> it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll
> generate lots of tangible value for the community.
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org> wrote:
> > "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
> > seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
> > something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
> > it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
> > behalf of the community.
>
> Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think
> the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's
> pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what
> they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth.
>
> Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we
> should be choosing simple, crisp & clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn
> the chart on
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement
> and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page
> for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no
> criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of
> communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but
> it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have
> very little time and interest to parse it.
>
> I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be
> utilized and further advertised in coming days:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy
>
> Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think
> it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll
> generate lots of tangible value for the community.


Then my suggestion would be, rename the department.

I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority
and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do
and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the
community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department
the community department. ;)

Regards
Theo
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I must say that after reading all this and the detailed page with the
beautiful graphic I am still confused what the department will actually do.
There are beautiful abstract goals which everybody would obviously agree
with, and there are highly diverse skills involved from on one end Maggie
and on the other extreme Geoff. All great. But I hope you can help me by
summarizing in one or two sentences of "mortal" English what you will *do*
everyday. Will you be the ones executing decisions from Legal? Will you be
nutshelling community decisions and act like an ambassador to the Wikimedia
Foundation? Will you be working on guiding the community involvement
processes Geoff handled so well with the Terms of Use?

Thanks,

Lodewijk

No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 07:46, Theo10011 <de10011@gmail.com>escreveu:

> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org>
> wrote:
> > > "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
> > > seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
> > > something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
> > > it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
> > > behalf of the community.
> >
> > Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think
> > the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's
> > pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what
> > they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth.
> >
> > Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we
> > should be choosing simple, crisp & clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn
> > the chart on
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement
> > and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page
> > for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no
> > criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of
> > communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but
> > it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have
> > very little time and interest to parse it.
> >
> > I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be
> > utilized and further advertised in coming days:
> >
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy
> >
> > Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think
> > it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll
> > generate lots of tangible value for the community.
>
>
> Then my suggestion would be, rename the department.
>
> I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority
> and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do
> and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the
> community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department
> the community department. ;)
>
> Regards
> Theo
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia Announcements] Announcement: Building a new Legal and Community Advocacy Department & Promotion of Philippe Beaudette [ In reply to ]
I think we'll be doing some combination of all three of those. But
here's the important part: you tell us. I built out the brainstorming
page: people are acting as though there's a determined course charted
for this team - if anything, it's the opposite. This is the
opportunity for the community to tell us how you'd like to be supported
by this team. From the ground floor, help us design it. Tell us what
will work best. Do we need more Maggies? Do we need someone to help
us track issues of free culture? Maybe we don't, because the community
has a process in place for that and we just don't know about it.

Help us design the team, and its high level goals. We have what we
THINK some of those will be (they're on the page, but I've pasted them
here [1], also)... but we're open to the community's input - actually,
we're begging for it.

Edit this team, and edit this plan. :-)

pb


[1]- -
* Maintaining a proactive online content-protection strategy, defending
the written and media work of the community on the Projects through
litigation and other means with the involvement of the community;
* Ensuring increasing amounts and efficacy of global community
participation in WMF-generated initiatives (such as revisions to WMF
policies);
* Setting up international meet-ups that recognize and support the role
of administrators and functionaries, including brainstorming ways that
WMF can better help these critical roles within our movement (e.g.,
Arbcoms, checkusers, OTRS, etc.);
* Providing international legislative and policy support to the
community, such as providing information about legislative issues of
interest like global censorship laws; and
* Creating and learning from a community-based advisory board,
including implementation of support ideas that serve the advocacy
interests of the community and Foundation.


On Thu Feb 9 23:42:23 2012, Lodewijk wrote:
> I must say that after reading all this and the detailed page with the
> beautiful graphic I am still confused what the department will actually do.
> There are beautiful abstract goals which everybody would obviously agree
> with, and there are highly diverse skills involved from on one end Maggie
> and on the other extreme Geoff. All great. But I hope you can help me by
> summarizing in one or two sentences of "mortal" English what you will *do*
> everyday. Will you be the ones executing decisions from Legal? Will you be
> nutshelling community decisions and act like an ambassador to the Wikimedia
> Foundation? Will you be working on guiding the community involvement
> processes Geoff handled so well with the Terms of Use?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Lodewijk
>
> No dia 10 de Fevereiro de 2012 07:46, Theo10011 <de10011@gmail.com>escreveu:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Casey Brown <lists@caseybrown.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> "Advocacy" is a much more general term in this context than people
>>>> seem to be taking it as. It does not mean lobbying or fighting for
>>>> something controversial with outside organizations. As I understand
>>>> it, it's the opposite: advocating to the Wikimedia Foundation on
>>>> behalf of the community.
>>>
>>> Yeah, that's my understanding of the game plan here as well. I think
>>> the announcement could have been clearer in that regard, but that's
>>> pretty much what Philippe and Maggie have already been doing, and what
>>> they'll continue to do in a structure that's set up for growth.
>>>
>>> Sometimes we have a tendency to speak in management lingo when we
>>> should be choosing simple, crisp & clear terms. Honest feedback: Burn
>>> the chart on
>>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal_and_Community_Advocacy/LCA_Announcement
>>> and draft a super crisp mission statement to slap on the first page
>>> for this group. I know, I've been guilty of this as well -- no
>>> criticism of the team. When working in an organization this kind of
>>> communication style is often expected from you in day-to-day work, but
>>> it's not necessarily helpful when communicating with people who have
>>> very little time and interest to parse it.
>>>
>>> I think the brainstorming page is a great start and hope it'll be
>>> utilized and further advertised in coming days:
>>>
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Legal/Community_Advocacy
>>>
>>> Congratulations to Philippe and Maggie for their new roles. I think
>>> it's about time that we're creating this structure, and I think it'll
>>> generate lots of tangible value for the community.
>>
>>
>> Then my suggestion would be, rename the department.
>>
>> I completely agree, it is about time Philippe and Maggie get more authority
>> and a dedicated department. I am happy for both of them. They actually do
>> and have been doing the heavy lifting for years when it comes to the
>> community. I would actually be more in favor of calling their department
>> the community department. ;)
>>
>> Regards
>> Theo
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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