Mailing List Archive

NPG still violating copyright
Back in March this year, I pointed out in Wikien-1 that the UKs National
Portrait Gallery, was reusing Wikipedia content (and in particular my work)
without any attribution (and indeed was claiming copyright).

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2011-March/108731.html

This got some attention at the time, and coverage in the en.wp Signpost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_an
d_notes

The matter ended when it was indicated that WMF people in the GLAM project
would raise it with the NPG as a matter of urgency.


However, I note that the NPG continues to use copyrighted material without
attribution and with a false copyright claim.
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person.php?search=sa&LinkID=mp07767




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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Hi Scott,
It was raised with the NPG, as promised, at the time. They assured me they
would investigate immediately on the pages indicated as well as make a
random sampling of other pages on their site to see if it had happened
elsewhere.

I'll re-raise this with them today and get back to you when I know any
news.
Sincerely,
-Liam

wittylama.com/blog
Peace, love & metadata


On 12 June 2011 22:53, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Back in March this year, I pointed out in Wikien-1 that the UKs National
> Portrait Gallery, was reusing Wikipedia content (and in particular my work)
> without any attribution (and indeed was claiming copyright).
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2011-March/108731.html
>
> This got some attention at the time, and coverage in the en.wp Signpost.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_an
> d_notes
>
> The matter ended when it was indicated that WMF people in the GLAM project
> would raise it with the NPG as a matter of urgency.
>
>
> However, I note that the NPG continues to use copyrighted material without
> attribution and with a false copyright claim.
>
> http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person.php?search=sa&LinkID=mp07767
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-
> bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt
> Sent: 13 June 2011 06:20
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] NPG still violating copyright
>
> Hi Scott,
> It was raised with the NPG, as promised, at the time. They assured me
> they
> would investigate immediately on the pages indicated as well as make a
> random sampling of other pages on their site to see if it had happened
> elsewhere.
>
> I'll re-raise this with them today and get back to you when I know any
> news.
> Sincerely,
> -Liam
>

Thanks. I mean all they need to add is "text taken from Wikipedia" - it
shouldn't be too hard.

Scott


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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Hm, I'm afraid that is not sufficient. :-) It's CC-BY-SA.

Kind regards
Ziko


>
> Thanks. I mean all they need to add is "text taken from Wikipedia" - it
> shouldn't be too hard.
>
> Scott
>
>
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>



--
Ziko van Dijk
The Netherlands
http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 13 June 2011 09:23, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk@googlemail.com> wrote:

>> Thanks. I mean all they need to add is "text taken from Wikipedia" - it
>> shouldn't be too hard.

> Hm, I'm afraid that is not sufficient. :-) It's CC-BY-SA.


*Surely* the NPG should be able to figure out that by doing this,
they're leaving themselves wide open to copyright suits from all the
hundreds of thousands of smart, motivated geeks who HIT THE GODDAMN
ROOF when they sent that legal threat. They've so far scraped through
on other people not being the sort of arseholes they were, but I find
it difficult to picture how they've considered that a safe policy
going forward.


- d.

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Hm, I'm afraid that is not sufficient. :-) It's CC-BY-SA.
>
>
> *Surely* the NPG should be able to figure out that by doing this,
> they're leaving themselves wide open to copyright suits from all the
> hundreds of thousands of smart, motivated geeks who HIT THE GODDAMN
> ROOF when they sent that legal threat. They've so far scraped through
> on other people not being the sort of arseholes they were, but I find
> it difficult to picture how they've considered that a safe policy
> going forward.
>
>
> - d.



Unfortunately, my legal action fund won't stretch to it. However, I suspect
a press release from WMF or even the UK chapter should do the trick.

Scott


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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Personally, I would rather see this as an opportunity for friendly dialogue
to help improve our working relationship. It might be a case study to
usefully cover at GLAMcamp London (24 June) where someone from the NPG is
attending (though not necessarily with this responsibility) and could be
declared afterwards as a positive outcome. Perhaps someone would care to
email the WM-UK board with a short summary and this can be resolved
off-list?

Cheers,
Fae
--
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Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags
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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 13 June 2011 10:34, Fae <faenwp@gmail.com> wrote:

> Personally, I would rather see this as an opportunity for friendly dialogue
> to help improve our working relationship.


Absolutely, a non-apocalyptic response is desirable.

However, they're still being blitheringly stupid and obnoxious, and
leaving themselves wide-open. However nice the individual
representatives of the NPG may be, the organisation's behaviour
demonstrates that they don't give a damn.

Would polite but firm notices from those whose personal contributions
have been appropriated by the NPG in violation of copyright help
things along?


- d.

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 13 June 2011 09:47, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Hm, I'm afraid that is not sufficient. :-) It's CC-BY-SA.
>>
>>
>> *Surely* the NPG should be able to figure out that by doing this,
>> they're leaving themselves wide open to copyright suits from all the
>> hundreds of thousands of smart, motivated geeks who HIT THE GODDAMN
>> ROOF when they sent that legal threat. They've so far scraped through
>> on other people not being the sort of arseholes they were, but I find
>> it difficult to picture how they've considered that a safe policy
>> going forward.
>>
>>
>> - d.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, my legal action fund won't stretch to it. However, I suspect
> a press release from WMF or even the UK chapter should do the trick.

A press release is only one step before actually filing court papers.
A friendly chat (which Liam is doing now) comes first and then comes a
firmly worded letter from a solicitor. We shouldn't even be
considering press releases at this stage, they would do more harm than
good.

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-
> bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt
> Sent: 14 June 2011 02:53
> Cc: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] NPG still violating copyright
>
> Scott, the director of rights and reproductions a the NPG kindly wrote
> directly back to me very quickly and said (quoting with permission):
> "We did, indeed, investigate immediately. I am expecting changes to be
> made, shortly."
>
> So, I assume that not only will changes be made to their website soon
> but we'll be informed what as soon as it does.
>
> Sincerely,
> -Liam
>


Thanks Liam,

It is a shame they didn't action this last time they were nudged. But if
they follow through now, that's a win.

Scott


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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 13 June 2011 09:29, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Surely* the NPG should be able to figure out that by doing this,
> they're leaving themselves wide open to copyright suits from all the
> hundreds of thousands of smart, motivated geeks who HIT THE GODDAMN
> ROOF when they sent that legal threat. They've so far scraped through
> on other people not being the sort of arseholes they were, but I find
> it difficult to picture how they've considered that a safe policy
> going forward.

I suspect they are following the very safe assumption that the
overwhelming majority human beings stay well away from major legal
actuation unless there is serious money involved.


--
geni

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Scott, the director of rights and reproductions a the NPG kindly wrote directly back to me very quickly and said (quoting with permission):
"We did, indeed, investigate immediately. I am expecting changes to be made, shortly."

So, I assume that not only will changes be made to their website soon but we'll be informed what as soon as it does.

Sincerely,
-Liam

Sent from my phone.
Wittylama.com/blog

On 13/06/2011, at 15:19, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Scott,
> It was raised with the NPG, as promised, at the time. They assured me they would investigate immediately on the pages indicated as well as make a random sampling of other pages on their site to see if it had happened elsewhere.
>
> I'll re-raise this with them today and get back to you when I know any news.
> Sincerely,
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On 12 June 2011 22:53, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Back in March this year, I pointed out in Wikien-1 that the UKs National
> Portrait Gallery, was reusing Wikipedia content (and in particular my work)
> without any attribution (and indeed was claiming copyright).
>
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2011-March/108731.html
>
> This got some attention at the time, and coverage in the en.wp Signpost.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_an
> d_notes
>
> The matter ended when it was indicated that WMF people in the GLAM project
> would raise it with the NPG as a matter of urgency.
>
>
> However, I note that the NPG continues to use copyrighted material without
> attribution and with a false copyright claim.
> http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person.php?search=sa&LinkID=mp07767
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Nicely done Liam, thanks.

Cheers,
Fae
--
http://enwp.org/user_talk:fae
Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/faetags


On 14 June 2011 02:53, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Scott, the director of rights and reproductions a the NPG kindly wrote
> directly back to me very quickly and said (quoting with permission):
> "We did, indeed, investigate immediately. I am expecting changes to be
> made, shortly."
> ...
> -Liam
>
>
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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Follow up on this thread from last week:
NPG have pushed through changes to their content and it is now on their live
site.
Please advise if there are any further issues.

-Liam

wittylama.com/blog
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
Well, they appear to have re-written their blurb to make it far enough away
from Wikipedia text to keep them safe.

http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp07767/john-michael-wright

What an effort, just to prevent them having to acknowledge it was not their
own work. Petty.

Scott


> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-
> bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Liam Wyatt
> Sent: 16 June 2011 05:36
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] NPG still violating copyright
>
> Follow up on this thread from last week:
> NPG have pushed through changes to their content and it is now on their
> live
> site.
> Please advise if there are any further issues.
>
> -Liam
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 16 June 2011 09:06, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Well, they appear to have re-written their blurb to make it far enough away
> from Wikipedia text to keep them safe.
> http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp07767/john-michael-wright
> What an effort, just to prevent them having to acknowledge it was not their
> own work. Petty.


Have the others been checked over?


- d.

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-
> bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of David Gerard
> Sent: 16 June 2011 09:13
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] NPG still violating copyright
>
> On 16 June 2011 09:06, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, they appear to have re-written their blurb to make it far
> enough away
> > from Wikipedia text to keep them safe.
> > http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp07767/john-michael-
> wright
> > What an effort, just to prevent them having to acknowledge it was not
> their
> > own work. Petty.
>
>
> Have the others been checked over?
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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The only other one I had noted was
http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp01315/william-dobson

This does seem to have been sorted. But I recall people saying there were
others at the time, but I don't have any list.

Scott


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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On 16 June 2011 11:03, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> The only other one I had noted was
> http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person/mp01315/william-dobson
>
> This does seem to have been sorted. But I recall people saying there were
> others at the time, but I don't have any list.

As I recall, there didn't seem to be very many - I checked twenty or
thirty more plausible candidates (same time period, etc) and drew a
blank before finding Dobson. There was one other possible case
mentioned on the talkpage, but there both the NPG and WP seem to have
derived it from an old copy of the Dictionary of Australian Biography.

--
- Andrew Gray
  andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk

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Re: NPG still violating copyright [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:53 AM, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Scott, the director of rights and reproductions a the NPG kindly wrote directly back to me very quickly and said (quoting with permission):
> "We did, indeed, investigate immediately. I am expecting changes to be made, shortly."
>
> So, I assume that not only will changes be made to their website soon but we'll be informed what as soon as it does.
>
> Sincerely,
> -Liam
>
> Sent from my phone.
> Wittylama.com/blog
>
> On 13/06/2011, at 15:19, Liam Wyatt <liamwyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Scott,
>> It was raised with the NPG, as promised, at the time. They assured me they would investigate immediately on the pages indicated as well as make a random sampling of other pages on their site to see if it had happened elsewhere.
>>
>> I'll re-raise this with them today and get back to you when I know any news.
>> Sincerely,
>> -Liam
>>
>> wittylama.com/blog
>> Peace, love & metadata
>>
>>
>> On 12 June 2011 22:53, Scott MacDonald <doc.wikipedia@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> Back in March this year, I pointed out in Wikien-1 that the UKs National
>> Portrait Gallery, was reusing Wikipedia content (and in particular my work)
>> without any attribution (and indeed was claiming copyright).
>>
>> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2011-March/108731.html
>>
>> This got some attention at the time, and coverage in the en.wp Signpost.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_an
>> d_notes
>>
>> The matter ended when it was indicated that WMF people in the GLAM project
>> would raise it with the NPG as a matter of urgency.
>>
>>
>> However, I note that the NPG continues to use copyrighted material without
>> attribution and with a false copyright claim.
>> http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/person.php?search=sa&LinkID=mp07767
>>
>>
>>
>>

Three thumbs up!!!


--
--
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]

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