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Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver
Hello.

http://toolserver.org/~kalan is redirected to Russian Wikipedia article «Хуй (значения)». This is very incorrect redirect («Хуй» («Khuy») in Russian mean obscene word, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat_(Russian_profanity) ) and in fact a vandalism: this toolserver account contains statistics about Arbcom elections (example: http://toolserver.org/~kalan/arb10/), and this redirect mean «russian arbitrators is khuy».

Owner of this Tollserver account does not respond to abuse reports in-wiki.

Please delete redirect and replace it with standard TOC or blank page.

--
His Shadow.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On 04/12/2011 02:51 PM, Shadow His wrote:
> http://toolserver.org/~kalan is redirected to Russian Wikipedia article «Хуй (значения)». This is very incorrect redirect («Хуй» («Khuy») in Russian mean obscene word, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mat_(Russian_profanity) ) and in fact a vandalism: this toolserver account contains statistics about Arbcom elections (example: http://toolserver.org/~kalan/arb10/), and this redirect mean «russian arbitrators is khuy».
>
> Owner of this Tollserver account does not respond to abuse reports in-wiki.
>
> Please delete redirect and replace it with standard TOC or blank page.

You can stop using http://toolserver.org/~kalan/arb10/ if you have
problems with profanity on user's main personal page.

Server admins usually prefer not to do anything in relation to personal
files if it is not a security problem and if they don't have court order.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:
> You can stop using http://toolserver.org/~kalan/arb10/ if you have
> problems with profanity on user's main personal page.
>
> Server admins usually prefer not to do anything in relation to personal
> files if it is not a security problem and if they don't have court order.

You're mistaken. The toolserver has strict rules:

https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Rules

Using toolserver access in a manner that does not further the
toolserver's goals (or, indeed, hinders them) is a misappropriation of
donated resources and will be dealt with harshly. More than a few
users' accounts have been shut down for abuse. Even if something is
not specifically against the rules, toolserver roots reserve the right
to prohibit or penalize it ex post facto at their discretion. As the
rules say: "The toolserver is not a wiki and excuses such as 'the
rules didn't say I can't do this' will be ignored."

Since this isn't urgent, I'll leave it for more active admins to deal
with. However, I would not be at all surprised if the user was asked
to take down the redirect, at the very least.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 15:53, Aryeh Gregor
<Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com> wrote:
> You're mistaken.  The toolserver has strict rules:
>
> https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Rules
>
> Using toolserver access in a manner that does not further the
> toolserver's goals (or, indeed, hinders them) is a misappropriation of
> donated resources and will be dealt with harshly.  More than a few
> users' accounts have been shut down for abuse.  Even if something is
> not specifically against the rules, toolserver roots reserve the right
> to prohibit or penalize it ex post facto at their discretion.  As the
> rules say: "The toolserver is not a wiki and excuses such as 'the
> rules didn't say I can't do this' will be ignored."
>
> Since this isn't urgent, I'll leave it for more active admins to deal
> with.  However, I would not be at all surprised if the user was asked
> to take down the redirect, at the very least.

As admin (but not Toolserver admin), the sense of rules similar to "
excuses such as 'the rules didn't say I can't do this' will be
ignored." is obvious to me and it means "don't make troubles". Having
a redirect to a Wikipedia page is not "making troubles".

This issue could be discussed more and I am not saying that the best
way for making directory listing forbidden is to make such redirect.
However, raising this issue at foundation-l is more about making
troubles than having such redirect.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:54 PM, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 15:53, Aryeh Gregor
> <Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You're mistaken. The toolserver has strict rules:
> >
> > https://wiki.toolserver.org/view/Rules
> >
> > Using toolserver access in a manner that does not further the
> > toolserver's goals (or, indeed, hinders them) is a misappropriation of
> > donated resources and will be dealt with harshly. More than a few
> > users' accounts have been shut down for abuse. Even if something is
> > not specifically against the rules, toolserver roots reserve the right
> > to prohibit or penalize it ex post facto at their discretion. As the
> > rules say: "The toolserver is not a wiki and excuses such as 'the
> > rules didn't say I can't do this' will be ignored."
> >
> > Since this isn't urgent, I'll leave it for more active admins to deal
> > with. However, I would not be at all surprised if the user was asked
> > to take down the redirect, at the very least.
>
> As admin (but not Toolserver admin), the sense of rules similar to "
> excuses such as 'the rules didn't say I can't do this' will be
> ignored." is obvious to me and it means "don't make troubles". Having
> a redirect to a Wikipedia page is not "making troubles".
>
> This issue could be discussed more and I am not saying that the best
> way for making directory listing forbidden is to make such redirect.
> However, raising this issue at foundation-l is more about making
> troubles than having such redirect.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

I'm sorry but I don't see the wisdom in antagonizing someone for bringing a
legitimate concern to this list. It might not be the right place and he did
copy the message to toolserver-l but telling him "to stop using
toolserver...if you have problem with profanity on user's main personal
page." does not seem right.

It almost seems like you're defending this person on toolserver or the idea
of having profanity on a user's "main personal page".

Jason
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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On 04/12/2011 04:45 PM, Jason donovan wrote:
> I'm sorry but I don't see the wisdom in antagonizing someone for bringing a
> legitimate concern to this list. It might not be the right place and he did
> copy the message to toolserver-l but telling him "to stop using
> toolserver...if you have problem with profanity on user's main personal
> page." does not seem right.
>
> It almost seems like you're defending this person on toolserver or the idea
> of having profanity on a user's "main personal page".

I didn't say "stop using Toolserver", but "stop using the page created
by user on which profanity he complains".

If I am on the place of that Toolserver user and someone brings one joke
at so visible level as "abuse", I would delete both pages: a joke and a
useful one.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:
> As admin (but not Toolserver admin), the sense of rules similar to "
> excuses such as 'the rules didn't say I can't do this' will be
> ignored." is obvious to me and it means "don't make troubles". Having
> a redirect to a Wikipedia page is not "making troubles".

That is for the toolserver admins to decide, not you. It is not
helpful for you to discourage people from complaining to the
toolserver admins, particularly not on false grounds. I have no
strong opinion on whether this particular complaint is legitimate, but
any user who thinks the toolserver is being misused should definitely
bring it to the attention of the toolserver admins, such as by posting
to toolserver-l (if they want it to be public) or
ts-admins@wikimedia.org (if they want it to be private).

> This issue could be discussed more and I am not saying that the best
> way for making directory listing forbidden is to make such redirect.
> However, raising this issue at foundation-l is more about making
> troubles than having such redirect.

Even if that's the case, it is still entirely incorrect to say "Server
admins usually prefer not to do anything in relation to personal files
if it is not a security problem and if they don't have court order."
The toolserver is not a place where users can do whatever they feel
like as long as they don't cause too much trouble. The admins are
perfectly willing to step in and stop toolserver users from doing
anything that they feel is out of line.

That said, foundation-l is indeed not the correct place to have this
discussion, and further discussion should occur on toolserver-l (which
was originally CCd as well as foundation-l). The toolserver is not
run by the Wikimedia Foundation, but by Wikimedia Deutschland, which
is a separate entity, so a discussion on foundation-l isn't as likely
to reach the right people.

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Re: Vandal obscene redirect from Toolserver [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 18:29, Aryeh Gregor
<Simetrical+wikilist@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Milos Rancic <millosh@gmail.com> wrote:
>> As admin (but not Toolserver admin), the sense of rules similar to "
>> excuses such as 'the rules didn't say I can't do this' will be
>> ignored." is obvious to me and it means "don't make troubles". Having
>> a redirect to a Wikipedia page is not "making troubles".
>
> That is for the toolserver admins to decide, not you.  It is not
> helpful for you to discourage people from complaining to the
> toolserver admins, particularly not on false grounds.  I have no
> strong opinion on whether this particular complaint is legitimate, but
> any user who thinks the toolserver is being misused should definitely
> bring it to the attention of the toolserver admins, such as by posting
> to toolserver-l (if they want it to be public) or
> ts-admins@wikimedia.org (if they want it to be private).
>
>> This issue could be discussed more and I am not saying that the best
>> way for making directory listing forbidden is to make such redirect.
>> However, raising this issue at foundation-l is more about making
>> troubles than having such redirect.
>
> Even if that's the case, it is still entirely incorrect to say "Server
> admins usually prefer not to do anything in relation to personal files
> if it is not a security problem and if they don't have court order."
> The toolserver is not a place where users can do whatever they feel
> like as long as they don't cause too much trouble.  The admins are
> perfectly willing to step in and stop toolserver users from doing
> anything that they feel is out of line.
>
> That said, foundation-l is indeed not the correct place to have this
> discussion, and further discussion should occur on toolserver-l (which
> was originally CCd as well as foundation-l).  The toolserver is not
> run by the Wikimedia Foundation, but by Wikimedia Deutschland, which
> is a separate entity, so a discussion on foundation-l isn't as likely
> to reach the right people.

With a couple of not so important notes for this case, it could be
said that we agree.

And I see that possible interpretation of my construct "server admins"
is beyond what i meant. I used it as a general term, I didn't mean
exactly "Toolserver admins". And word "usually" has its meaning there.
(BTW, I don't remember any court order made to Toolserver.)

Everything else inside of my email was exactly because of complaint at
foundation-l, not at places described at relevant places.

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