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Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
Hey all,

fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked
in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say
permanently).

See:
http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php

Ian (User:Poeloq)
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Ian A. Holton pisze:
> Hey all,
>
> fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked
> in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say
> permanently).
>
> See:
> http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
>
> Ian (User:Poeloq)


Great news :)

masti

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.

Best,

CM


Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200
> From: poeloq@gmail.com
> To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
>
> Hey all,
>
> fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been UNblocked
> in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say
> permanently).
>
> See:
> http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
>
> Ian (User:Poeloq)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Christiano et al,

you may be right. I will be in China at the time and will have my fingers
crossed.

Ian
[User:Poeloq]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Christiano Moreschi <
moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last
> 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
>
> Best,
>
> CM
>
>
> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200
> > From: poeloq@gmail.com
> > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
> >
> > Hey all,
> >
> > fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been
> UNblocked
> > in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say
> > permanently).
> >
> > See:
> >
> http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
> >
> > Ian (User:Poeloq)
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get Messenger on your mobile, text MSN to 63463 now!
> http://mobile.uk.msn.com/pc/messenger.aspx
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
I am trying to get a confirmation or a denying. Because at the moment it is already after midnight there we would have to wait until tomorrow for that.

Greetings
Ting

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 15:50:51 +0200
> Von: "Ian A. Holton" <poeloq@gmail.com>
> An: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Betreff: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China

> Hey all,
>
> fantastic news for now: The Chinese version of Wikipedia has been
> UNblocked
> in mainland China once again - hopefully longer this time (I dare say
> permanently).
>
> See:
> http://www.danwei.org/net_nanny_follies/wikipedia_chinese_version_unbl.php
>
> Ian (User:Poeloq)
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi <
moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will last
> 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
>

Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the
reporters have all gone home first.

-Robert Rohde
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Robert, Ting, et al,

Robert, I hope that was sarcasm ;-)

Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in
Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also
confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in
Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.

Greatings,
Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Robert Rohde <rarohde@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi <
> moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will
> last
> > 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
> >
>
> Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the
> reporters have all gone home first.
>
> -Robert Rohde
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton <poeloq@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in
> Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also
> confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in
> Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
[snip]

Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
who reads what. :-/

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and
the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All
that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining
corrupt officials pockets).

-dan
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton <poeloq@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in
> > Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
> also
> > confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked
> in
> > Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
> [snip]
>
> Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
> who reads what. :-/
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Hey,

let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when talking
about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil
giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the
others.

It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not be
dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not start
repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other extreme.

In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for
unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for
_everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the
GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more
effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is
looking at what, when, why and how.

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester@gmail.com> wrote:

> Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and
> the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All
> that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining
> corrupt officials pockets).
>
> -dan
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton <poeloq@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
> in
> > > Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
> > also
> > > confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
> unblocked
> > in
> > > Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
> > [snip]
> >
> > Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
> > who reads what. :-/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dan Rosenthal
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Oh, don't be silly. This is the flaming mailing list. NPOV doesn't apply here. We can all mouth off about the PRC as much as we like, so long as it's reasonably on-topic. Discussion is never NPOV, nor should it be.

CM


Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:06:57 +0200
> From: poeloq@gmail.com
> To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
>
> Hey,
>
> let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when talking
> about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil
> giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the
> others.
>
> It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not be
> dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not start
> repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other extreme.
>
> In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for
> unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for
> _everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the
> GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more
> effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is
> looking at what, when, why and how.
>
> Ian
> [[User:Poeloq]]
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal wrote:
>
>> Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people (and
>> the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.). All
>> that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and lining
>> corrupt officials pockets).
>>
>> -dan
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton wrote:
>>>> Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
>> in
>>>> Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
>>> also
>>>> confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
>> unblocked
>>> in
>>>> Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
>>> who reads what. :-/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dan Rosenthal
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Christiano et al,

re-reading my last mail: I must agree, it sounds silly as the intended
sarcasm combined with my own opinion, which normally isn't very NPOV itself,
didn't quite come out. Maybe because I was writing it sitting on the train
;-)

Enjoy,

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Christiano Moreschi <
moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>
> Oh, don't be silly. This is the flaming mailing list. NPOV doesn't apply
> here. We can all mouth off about the PRC as much as we like, so long as it's
> reasonably on-topic. Discussion is never NPOV, nor should it be.
>
> CM
>
>
> Odi profanum vulgus et arceo.
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 23:06:57 +0200
> > From: poeloq@gmail.com
> > To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > let's keep this discussion NPOV Wikipedia-style - especially when
> talking
> > about a country that is being potrayed in the media as the sleeping evil
> > giant on the one hand and the next world superpower (and hope) by the
> > others.
> >
> > It is correct, that many things in the People's Republic of China may not
> be
> > dealt with in the same way as the West / the free world, but let's not
> start
> > repeating obvious propaganda messages and statements of the other
> extreme.
> >
> > In regards to the subject at hand, I'm not sure what the reason for
> > unblocking is and the Olympics are not necessarily the reason for
> > _everything_ happening in the PR at the moment. I know my fair bit on the
> > GWC topic and I am fairly certain that blocking is cheaper and more
> > effective than unblocking, disregardless of if they are tracking who is
> > looking at what, when, why and how.
> >
> > Ian
> > [[User:Poeloq]]
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Dan Rosenthal wrote:
> >
> >> Probably cheaper too. You gotta pay all the spooks monitoring people
> (and
> >> the snatch and grab teams kidnapping them, and the interrogators etc.).
> All
> >> that money could be used for more important things (like bribes, and
> lining
> >> corrupt officials pockets).
> >>
> >> -dan
> >> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Gregory Maxwell
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton wrote:
> >>>> Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server
> >> in
> >>>> Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can
> >>> also
> >>>> confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was
> >> unblocked
> >>> in
> >>>> Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
> >>> who reads what. :-/
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dan Rosenthal
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 6:30 AM, Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Ian A. Holton <poeloq@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in
>> Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also
>> confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked in
>> Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
> [snip]
>
> Perhaps it's just become considered better to allow access then track
> who reads what. :-/

I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is
now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They
report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on
every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%AF%9B%E6%B3%BD%E4%B8%9C

--
John

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is
> now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They
> report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on
> every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.

It may be that it attempts to reset every time but the reset arrives
too late to matter half the time.

But of course, this is the sort of concern I was raising in my prior
post... I wasn't attempting any knock on the PRC, since it's certainly
far from the only government with bad policies ...

Just that blocking isn't the worst that can be done. Leaving the
appearance of non-interference while responding more subtly is
potentially much more harmful.

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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Gregory Maxwell wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:26 PM, John Vandenberg <jayvdb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hear from friends on the ground that while the Chinese Wikipedia is
>> now unblocked, the firewall is definitely still interfering. They
>> report connection resets (modus operandi of the great firewall) on
>> every *second* visit to the article on Mao Zedong.
>
> It may be that it attempts to reset every time but the reset arrives
> too late to matter half the time.
>
> But of course, this is the sort of concern I was raising in my prior
> post... I wasn't attempting any knock on the PRC, since it's certainly
> far from the only government with bad policies ...
>
> Just that blocking isn't the worst that can be done. Leaving the
> appearance of non-interference while responding more subtly is
> potentially much more harmful.

I'd hardly call home invasion by the police "subtle".

However, you're unlikely to meet that reaction if you're reading the
article on quantum electrodynamics. The aim of the Wikimedia Foundation is
education, not dissent. Unblocking our domains is a big win for education,
whichever way you look at it.

It may be true that Chinese people will continue to have problems
receiving education on certain topics, such as the mistakes of the past
and present leadership of the CCP. But take comfort in the fact that they
will be able to read about democracy, about political systems and living
conditions in other parts of the world; about history and the terrible
things perpetrated by dictatorial regimes on their people. Perhaps
Wikimedia can contribute to China's gradual liberalisation in this way.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Yeah, let me be clear to those confused that my prior email in this thread
was generalized to all governments, and not intended to be specifically
aimed at china. I'm quite glad that our domain is unblocked, for at least
some time.
--
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
Three users from Beijing and Shanghai just told me that they doesn't have access directly atm. In the last few times the unblock went with different speed according to provider and region. So maybe the same this time. I will keep you updated.

Suspetions is that it has to do with Olympics. So let's wait what happes.

Greetings
Ting.

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 22:23:10 +0200
> Von: "Ian A. Holton" <poeloq@gmail.com>
> An: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Betreff: Re: [Foundation-l] Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China

> Robert, Ting, et al,
>
> Robert, I hope that was sarcasm ;-)
>
> Ting, confirmation of the unblock? I can confirm this. I have a server in
> Beijing which had access, my friends in Beijing have access and I can also
> confirm that access to Wikipedia, both English and Chinese, was unblocked
> in
> Huludao (Liaoning Province) as of today.
>
> Greatings,
> Ian
> [[User:Poeloq]]
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 9:37 PM, Robert Rohde <rarohde@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Christiano Moreschi <
> > moreschiwikiman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Forgive me for putting a downer on proceedings, but I doubt this will
> > last
> > > 5 minutes beyond the end of the closing ceremony of the Olympics.
> > >
> >
> > Don't be silly. I'm sure they will wait at least a few days so that the
> > reporters have all gone home first.
> >
> > -Robert Rohde
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
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Re: Chinese Wikipedia unblocked in Mainland China [ In reply to ]
On Fri, 2008-07-04 at 07:37 +0200, Ting Chen wrote:

> Suspetions is that it has to do with Olympics. So let's wait what happes.
>

Despite what has been said on this thread, I think that was a given.

KTC

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