Mailing List Archive

How to disabling bounce messages
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Hello List,

is there any chance to disable the sending of bounce messages completely
or only for incoming mails for non existent mailboxes?
And if yes, how can i do that?

Problem on my Mailserver is that it's declarated as spammer cause of too
many bounce and doublebounce messages.

I really don't need that feature.

If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such unwanted
mails to /dev/null directly will help too.
I was told that this can be done by a .qmail file, but if I try to there
is a message in the log and the message remain in the queue.

Thanks for helping

Best regards
Horst

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Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
Hello horst,

Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:47:34 AM, you wrote:

hhd> is there any chance to disable the sending of bounce messages completely
hhd> or only for incoming mails for non existent mailboxes?
hhd> And if yes, how can i do that?

Reject them using something like validrcptto
http://qmail.jms1.net/patches/validrcptto.cdb.shtml

hhd> If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such unwanted
hhd> mails to /dev/null directly will help too.

That is in breach of RFC821

--
Best regards,
Niamh mailto:niamh@fullbore.co.uk
Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
horst@ht34.de <horst@ht34.de> wrote:
>
> is there any chance to disable the sending of bounce messages completely
> or only for incoming mails for non existent mailboxes?

The latter, yes. Create ~alias/.qmail-default ; this .qmail file will handle
mail that is not matched by any other local user or alias, or extension
address of same.

You can then silently discard that mail by making the contents of that .qmail
file "#".

Charles
--
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Read http://pyropus.ca/personal/writings/12-steps-to-qmail-list-bliss.html
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Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
On Friday 31 August 2007 07:29:39 Niamh Holding wrote:
> Hello horst,
>
> Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:47:34 AM, you wrote:
>
> > If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such
> > unwanted mails to /dev/null directly will help too.
>
> That is in breach of RFC821

that may be, but it can also be a good idea. many spammers don't "take the
hint" if you continually give them 400- and 500-series messages... and if
you're being flooded from thousands of IPs around the world, sometimes
this can be the only solution to keep your server from totally melting
through the floor.

in fact, the first patch i ever wrote for qmail did this- the idea was
that if qmail-queue (or its replacement) returned 1, qmail-smtpd would
tell the user "200 your spam has been ignored", even though qmail-queue
didn't actually store it anywhere.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------
| John M. Simpson    ---   KG4ZOW   ---    Programmer At Large |
| http://www.jms1.net/                         <jms1@jms1.net> |
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| http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 |
----------------------------------------------------------------
Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:57:37 -0400, John Simpson wrote:
> On Friday 31 August 2007 07:29:39 Niamh Holding wrote:
> > Hello horst,
> >
> > Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:47:34 AM, you wrote:
> >
> > > If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such
> > > unwanted mails to /dev/null directly will help too.
> >
> > That is in breach of RFC821
>
> that may be, but it can also be a good idea. many spammers don't "take the
> hint" if you continually give them 400- and 500-series messages... and if
> you're being flooded from thousands of IPs around the world, sometimes
> this can be the only solution to keep your server from totally melting
> through the floor.
>
> in fact, the first patch i ever wrote for qmail did this- the idea was
> that if qmail-queue (or its replacement) returned 1, qmail-smtpd would
> tell the user "200 your spam has been ignored", even though qmail-queue
> didn't actually store it anywhere.
>
Sounds like a cool patch.

I don't think it is adequate to say that a particular action is in breach
of a particular RFC, particularly when the procedure called for by the RFC
is being so egregiously abused.


--
David Benfell, LCP
benfell@parts-unknown.org
---
Resume available at http://www.parts-unknown.org/
NOTE: I sign all messages with GnuPG (0DD1D1E3).
Re: [?? Probable Spam] Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
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John Simpson schrieb:
> * PGP Signed by an unknown key
>
> On Friday 31 August 2007 07:29:39 Niamh Holding wrote:
>
>> Hello horst,
>>
>> Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:47:34 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>> If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such
>>> unwanted mails to /dev/null directly will help too.
>>>
>> That is in breach of RFC821
>>
>
> that may be, but it can also be a good idea. many spammers don't "take the
> hint" if you continually give them 400- and 500-series messages... and if
> you're being flooded from thousands of IPs around the world, sometimes
> this can be the only solution to keep your server from totally melting
> through the floor.
>
> in fact, the first patch i ever wrote for qmail did this- the idea was
> that if qmail-queue (or its replacement) returned 1, qmail-smtpd would
> tell the user "200 your spam has been ignored", even though qmail-queue
> didn't actually store it anywhere.
>
>
That sounds like a really good patch for my needs.
Where can i get it?

The breach of RFC821 doesn't matter I think.
Cause the spammers addresses mostly didn't exist as well so there are at
least 2 bounce messages on the network for one spam mail which are not
needed.
This means only from my server around 5000 mails per day who are
absolutely senseless.
I don't think RFC821 cover that fact.

I get the hint from this list that making a
/var/qmail/alias/.qmail-default file which will affect all mails without
correct local mailbox.
But when i just put /dev/null in it, i get the message that this is not
a mbox and the mails still remain in the queue.
And just put in a Maildir string which exists, theres no delivery into
that maildir. qmail just say that No address by that name and create a
bounce.
The same happens when i put "&dummy@domain.de" in it.
What went wrong here?

Another hint was to put the VALIDRCPTTO patch in my installation.
But if I understand the docs right than a valid user on my server want
to send a message outside, i will be blocked too.
Did I understand that right?

Please help me. I got nightmares on that problem soon.

Thanks a lot.

Best regards
Horst

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Re: [?? Probable Spam] Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
On Sunday 02 September 2007 07:50, horst@ht34.de wrote:
> John Simpson schrieb:
> > * PGP Signed by an unknown key
> >
> > On Friday 31 August 2007 07:29:39 Niamh Holding wrote:
> >> Hello horst,
> >>
> >> Friday, August 31, 2007, 10:47:34 AM, you wrote:
> >>> If someone can give me some informations about redirecting such
> >>> unwanted mails to /dev/null directly will help too.
> >>
> >> That is in breach of RFC821
> >
> > that may be, but it can also be a good idea. many spammers don't
> > "take the hint" if you continually give them 400- and 500-series
> > messages... and if you're being flooded from thousands of IPs
> > around the world, sometimes this can be the only solution to keep
> > your server from totally melting through the floor.
> >
> > in fact, the first patch i ever wrote for qmail did this- the
> > idea was that if qmail-queue (or its replacement) returned 1,
> > qmail-smtpd would tell the user "200 your spam has been ignored",
> > even though qmail-queue didn't actually store it anywhere.
>
> That sounds like a really good patch for my needs.
> Where can i get it?
>
> The breach of RFC821 doesn't matter I think.
> Cause the spammers addresses mostly didn't exist as well so there
> are at least 2 bounce messages on the network for one spam mail
> which are not needed.
> This means only from my server around 5000 mails per day who are
> absolutely senseless.
> I don't think RFC821 cover that fact.
>
> I get the hint from this list that making a
> /var/qmail/alias/.qmail-default file which will affect all mails
> without correct local mailbox.
> But when i just put /dev/null in it, i get the message that this is
> not a mbox and the mails still remain in the queue.

Just put a comment (a single # is enough) in the .qmail-default file
for qmail to discard messages caught by this file.

> And just put in a Maildir string which exists, theres no delivery
> into that maildir. qmail just say that No address by that name and
> create a bounce.
> The same happens when i put "&dummy@domain.de" in it.
> What went wrong here?

Sounds like qmail's not looking where you think it's looking for
delivery instructions for the address you're sending to. I suggest
you post details of your qmail config to the list to make more sense
of this.

> Another hint was to put the VALIDRCPTTO patch in my installation.
> But if I understand the docs right than a valid user on my server
> want to send a message outside, i will be blocked too.
> Did I understand that right?
>
> Please help me. I got nightmares on that problem soon.
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Best regards
> Horst

--
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* Custom email solutions * Systems Administration * Networking
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Re: How to disabling bounce messages [SOLVED] 7A2-99B [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Richards schrieb:
>
> Just put a comment (a single # is enough) in the .qmail-default file
> for qmail to discard messages caught by this file.
>
> Sounds like qmail's not looking where you think it's looking for
> delivery instructions for the address you're sending to. I suggest
> you post details of your qmail config to the list to make more sense
> of this.
>
This didn't work cause thre are automatic created .qmail-default files
for every domain.
I think vpopmail had made these files.
I commented out the line:
| /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' bounce-no-mailbox
and put another line below:
| /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' dummy@domain.de
at all virtual domains managed by vpopmail.

Now there are no bounce messages for unexistant accounts anymore and i
can delete the mails periodicaly.

But i will test the validrcptto patch on a seperate machine too. Just
for learning.

I think I can live with that solution. It has the needed effect. But I'm
not sure that this is the correct solution.

Thanks all for your help.

Best regards
Horst


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Re[2]: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
Hello John,

Saturday, September 1, 2007, 8:57:37 PM, you wrote:

JS> that may be, but it can also be a good idea. many spammers don't "take the
JS> hint" if you continually give them 400- and 500-series messages... and if
JS> you're being flooded from thousands of IPs around the world, sometimes
JS> this can be the only solution to keep your server from totally melting
JS> through the floor.

Interestingly I've just been watching some timings for a totally
different reason and roughly validrcptto rejects an attempt about 20
times quicker than qmail receives a message.

Now it's true that spambots pay little attention to 5xx rejects, OTOH
they tend to happily continue to spam addresses that accept their junk
too.

It is a bugbear of mine, but I do regularly have to dig into logs when
mail our users send is claimed not to be received at the far end. In
every case to date the receiving MTA accepted the message for
delivery, which means I then have to spend even more time trying to
get the receiving sysadmin to explain where it has gone.

--
Best regards,
Niamh mailto:niamh@fullbore.co.uk
Re: [OT] How to disabling bounce messages [SOLVED] 7A2-99B [ In reply to ]
[sorry for the OT post]

On 9/2/2007 6:38 AM, horst@ht34.de wrote:
> I commented out the line:
> | /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' bounce-no-mailbox

I strongly suggest keeping this and working with chkusr
(http://www.interazioni.it/opensource/chkusr/). It was designed
specifically for this purpose.

> and put another line below:
> | /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' dummy@domain.de
> at all virtual domains managed by vpopmail.
>
> Now there are no bounce messages for unexistant accounts anymore and i
> can delete the mails periodicaly.

if you just want vpopmail to delete the mail automatically, do
| /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' delete



--

Jeremy Kister
http://jeremy.kister.net./
Re: [?? Probable Spam] Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
On 2007-09-02, at 0250, horst@ht34.de wrote:
> John Simpson schrieb:
>>
>> in fact, the first patch i ever wrote for qmail did this- the idea
>> was
>> that if qmail-queue (or its replacement) returned 1, qmail-smtpd
>> would
>> tell the user "200 your spam has been ignored", even though qmail-
>> queue
>> didn't actually store it anywhere.
>
> That sounds like a really good patch for my needs.
> Where can i get it?

i just checked to make sure it was actually ON my web site, and
wouldn't you know it, i spotted a possible bug in the code. shows
what five years of additional programming experience will do. here's
the "fixed" version.

http://qmail.jms1.net/patches/qmail-1.03-jms1-antispam.2.patch

it actually does two things:

- if the qmail-smtpd replacement returns 1, qmail-smtpd tells the
client "250 Your SPAM has been ignored." the "250" makes the client
believe that the message was accepted, so it will stop trying that
message.

- if the qmail-smtpd replacement returns 32, qmail-smtpd tells the
client "554 we do not accept SPAM (#5.3.0)". this tells the client
that the message was rejected. a legitimate mail server will then
bounce the message back to its sender, a responsible mass-mailer will
presumably remove that recipient's email address from his list, and a
spammer will ignore it and possibly try again.

again, this was written long long before i found the "validrcptto"
patch and massaged it into the "validrcptto.cdb" patch that i'm using
now, which is the same idea as the "chkuser", but it isn't limited to
vpopmail, and even when vpopmail IS used, it works on machines OTHER
than the one hosting the mailboxes. the idea is that the mailbox
machine produces the "validrcptto.cdb" file and sends it to the other
"mailhubs", which handle the incoming traffic from the net (scanning
for viruses and spam), leaving the CPU of the mailbox server free to
handle clients' POP3, IMAP, and webmail sessions.

even though i wrote this patch (long ago- 2002-05-20 to be exact), i
don't recommend you rely on it very heavily- most people find it more
useful to simply reject messages sent to non-existent recipient
addresses, whether you do it using the "chkuser" patch, my
"validrcptto.cdb" patch, or some other method.

----------------------------------------------------------------
| John M. Simpson --- KG4ZOW --- Programmer At Large |
| http://www.jms1.net/ <jms1@jms1.net> |
----------------------------------------------------------------
| http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173 |
----------------------------------------------------------------
Re: How to disabling bounce messages [ In reply to ]
Charles Cazabon wrote:
> horst@ht34.de <horst@ht34.de> wrote:
>
>> is there any chance to disable the sending of bounce messages completely
>> or only for incoming mails for non existent mailboxes?
>>
>
> The latter, yes. Create ~alias/.qmail-default ; this .qmail file will handle
> mail that is not matched by any other local user or alias, or extension
> address of same.
>
> You can then silently discard that mail by making the contents of that .qmail
> file "#".
>
> Charles
>

Charles,

brilliant, simple and very effective!

On my mail server with 4 users I had 14,000 bounce messages, ... which
delayed my outgoing emails (20 connections at a time) severe. But now
only a few messages left in the queue (from TMDA "confirm your email
address")

Thanks!

bye

Ronald