Mailing List Archive

[Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays
(I don't know the best list to post this to, so if this is not it,
please forgive me and point me in the right direction. Thanks.)

So my inbox, and probably many of yours, was flooded this afternoon
with a dozen-plus emails from the Python-Announce list. I understand
that this list requires every email to be manually approved by a
moderator. The problem is that this is done infrequently. Prior to
today, the last round of approvals was June 26, almost two weeks ago.
This is not an atypical delay; on the contrary, it seems that
moderators only look at the queue once every one to two weeks.

There are several problems with these delays:

1. They result in floods of emails, with a large number of emails in a
short period of time. This makes inbox management difficult on the
days that approvals are done. Before you argue that "it's fine if you
have the right tools configured in the right way", consider that there
are probably many people who are subscribed to Python-Announce who
have no interest in and are not subscribed to any of the actual
discussion lists where such tools are most beneficial. Complex tool
configurations should not be a requirement for managing incoming
emails from what is essentially (to those people) a notification-only
mailing list. These people would be better served by frequent
approvals several times a week, allowing them to get fewer emails at
one time, but in a more timely manner.

2. Speaking of a more timely manner, the lengthy delays result in
redundant and outdated emails going through after the point where they
are no longer relevant. One such issue exemplified by today's set of
approvals (and seen on previous occasions before) is an announcement
of a new release of a PyPI package not being approved until after
there has already been a subsequent release to that same package. In
this case I am referring to the pytest 5.0.0 announcement sent to the
list on June 28 (according to the headers), followed by the pytest
5.0.1 announcement sent to the list on July 5. Neither was approved
and delivered to subscribers until today.

3. More importantly in terms of delays, on July 3 an announcement was
sent to the list regarding the impending switch of EuroPython ticket
rates to the late registration rate on July 6. This is an example of a
time-sensitive announcement that needs to not be delayed. Instead, the
email was not approved and delivered to subscribers until today, July
8, after the conference has already begun, and not in time for list
subscribers to react and avoid the late registration rates.

Is there a solution to this that would enable moderators to approve
more frequently? I understand that they are probably volunteers and
need to find spare time to wade through the queue, but if approvals
are done more frequently (even daily), then it will consume much less
time on each occasion. It would go from a task requiring an entire
hour (as it apparently did today based on the delivery timestamps) to
something that can be done on a coffee break.
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Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:27, Jonathan Goble <jcgoble3@gmail.com> wrote:

> So my inbox, and probably many of yours, was flooded this afternoon
> with a dozen-plus emails from the Python-Announce list. I understand
> that this list requires every email to be manually approved by a
> moderator.

I cleared the queue this morning, and unfortunately let one spam through. Apologies for that.

I’m not a super active moderator, but I do have to say that it’s so much easier to clear the queue now that the list is on Mailman 3. That said, it still takes active participation in order to review held messages.

> Is there a solution to this that would enable moderators to approve
> more frequently?

Volunteers are welcome! :)

-Barry
Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 3:59 PM Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
> I’m not a super active moderator, but I do have to say that it’s so much
> easier to clear the queue now that the list is on Mailman 3. That said,
> it still takes active participation in order to review held messages.
...
> Volunteers are welcome! :)

Does Mailman 3 notify moderators when candidates for moderation enter
the queue? If so, I'll step up to help out. MM3 knows me as
"fred@fdrake.net".


-Fred

--
Fred L. Drake, Jr. <fred at fdrake.net>
"A storm broke loose in my mind." --Albert Einstein
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Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 3:56 PM Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:

> On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:27, Jonathan Goble <jcgoble3@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a solution to this that would enable moderators to approve
> > more frequently?
>
> Volunteers are welcome! :)
>
> -Barry
>

I'd offer to volunteer, but I am merely a lurker and not active in the
community, and I feel like someone more active and known in the community
should take that role. Speaking of which, it looks like an -ideas mod has
volunteered for -announce, so maybe that will help. :)

>
Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On 07/08/2019 12:56 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> I’m not a super active moderator, but I do have to say that it’s so much easier to clear the queue now that the list is on Mailman 3. That said, it still takes active participation in order to review held messages.
>
> Volunteers are welcome! :)

Sign me up! Looks like much less of a burden than -list is (and probably about the same as core-mentorship). :-)

--
~Ethan~
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Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
Fred Drake wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 3:59 PM Barry Warsaw barry@python.org... wrote:
> > I’m not a super active moderator, but I do have to
> > say that it’s so much
> > easier to clear the queue now that the list is on Mailman 3. That said,
> > it still takes active participation in order to review held messages.
> > ...
> > Volunteers are welcome! :)
> > Does Mailman 3 notify moderators when candidates for moderation enter
> the queue?

Yes!
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Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On 08.07.2019 23:10, Jonathan Goble wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 3:56 PM Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org <mailto:barry@python.org>> wrote:
>
> On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:27, Jonathan Goble <jcgoble3@gmail.com <mailto:jcgoble3@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> > Is there a solution to this that would enable moderators to approve
> > more frequently?
>
> Volunteers are welcome! :)
>
> -Barry
>
>
> I'd offer to volunteer, but I am merely a lurker and not active in the community, and I feel like someone more active and known in the
> community should take that role. Speaking of which, it looks like an -ideas mod has volunteered for -announce, so maybe that will help. :)


The requirement here is not prior fame but free time for the job (and a minimal amount of common sense if that could be called a requirement).

>
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--
Regards,
Ivan
Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:56, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:

> Volunteers are welcome! :)

Wow, that was fast! Thanks for the offers for help. I’ll add everyone who’s stepped up so far to the list moderators. Yes, you do get a notification every day with a link right to the moderation page.

Cheers,
-Barry
Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
[even further off-topic]

While I have the attention of so many community-spirited individuals, I
might mention that webmaster@ could do with a few lurkers to get used to
the traffic. At present it's solely maintained by Mats Wichmann and me, and
I'm planning to step back from all PSF duties soon. The duties aren't
heavy, but the traffic is fairly regular and most of it benefits from being
answered sooner rather than later. So if anyone wants to pitch in, you'll
be welcomed.

Kind regards,
Steve Holden


On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 10:28 PM Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:

> On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:56, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
>
> > Volunteers are welcome! :)
>
> Wow, that was fast! Thanks for the offers for help. I’ll add everyone
> who’s stepped up so far to the list moderators. Yes, you do get a
> notification every day with a link right to the moderation page.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry
>
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>
Re: [Possibly off-topic] Python-Announce floods and delays [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Jul 8, 2019 at 5:23 PM Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
>
> On Jul 8, 2019, at 12:56, Barry Warsaw <barry@python.org> wrote:
>
> > Volunteers are welcome! :)
>
> Wow, that was fast! Thanks for the offers for help. I’ll add everyone who’s stepped up so far to the list moderators. Yes, you do get a notification every day with a link right to the moderation page.
>
> Cheers,
> -Barry

I'll echo the "wow". :) Happy to see people jumping at the chance to
help. Hopefully this leads to quicker moderation (which seems likely)
that doesn't flood inboxes like today.

As for me, I'll continue to lurk and learn as I continue my sophomore
year as a college student majoring in computer science, with hopes of
becoming more active in contributing to Python as I gain more
experience and skills.

Thanks everyone! :D
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