Mailing List Archive

OpenStack immaturity
Hi everyone,

According to the statement of this article from Gartner group
http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/
Openstack is a
highly immature platform.
But why? What's make Openstack so immature?

Any comments on that?

Thank you in advance :)
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Immaturity of a platform is something you can easily fix paying the right
fee to your favorite analyst firm.

Seriously, Openstack is an open platform and an open community. This means
problems and issues are open to discuss to everyone. Propietary platforms
issues are rarely disclosed, and they look more mature. And believe me, I
have used most of them and Openstack is not more unstable (or stable) than
others.

Anyway, it's time to move the stack from 'devs' to 'ops'. When somebody
says 'you have to install the development version to fix this' instead of
'you have to follow this procedure on the stable version', you cannot
imagine the damage made to Openstack Nova. It's painful, but it's the only
way to have a robust platform. Let's forget about 'you will have it in the
next release': we are not Microsoft. This is real, not vapourware.

My two cents
Diego

--
Diego Parrilla
<http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
*www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla@stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
skype:diegoparrilla*
* <http://www.stackops.com/>
**



On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> According to the statement of this article from Gartner group
> http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
> highly immature platform.
> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>
> Any comments on that?
>
> Thank you in advance :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
I think this news is good

Make us must work hard.

Time will tell

Like linux, now lead.
On Apr 4, 2012 5:57 PM, "Diego Parrilla Santamaría" <
diego.parrilla.santamaria@gmail.com> wrote:

> Immaturity of a platform is something you can easily fix paying the right
> fee to your favorite analyst firm.
>
> Seriously, Openstack is an open platform and an open community. This means
> problems and issues are open to discuss to everyone. Propietary platforms
> issues are rarely disclosed, and they look more mature. And believe me, I
> have used most of them and Openstack is not more unstable (or stable) than
> others.
>
> Anyway, it's time to move the stack from 'devs' to 'ops'. When somebody
> says 'you have to install the development version to fix this' instead of
> 'you have to follow this procedure on the stable version', you cannot
> imagine the damage made to Openstack Nova. It's painful, but it's the only
> way to have a robust platform. Let's forget about 'you will have it in the
> next release': we are not Microsoft. This is real, not vapourware.
>
> My two cents
> Diego
>
> --
> Diego Parrilla
> <http://www.stackops.com/>*CEO*
> *www.stackops.com | * diego.parrilla@stackops.com** | +34 649 94 43 29 |
> skype:diegoparrilla*
> * <http://www.stackops.com/>
> **
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner group
>> http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>> highly immature platform.
>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>
>> Any comments on that?
>>
>> Thank you in advance :)
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want
pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if
you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to
bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with
OpenStack than with other projects in this space.

Just my $.02 worth.

Jacek Artymiak
author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/
(please submit patches so we can improve this document)

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
> highly immature platform.
> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>
> Any comments on that?
>
> Thank you in advance :)

_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
I believe this "Openstack is a highly immature platform." is referring
more to nova than swift. The simple reason for that is nova is more
focused on dev than ops but that is changing. In mature projects
the questions like "How do I run this reliably every day?" and "How
can I safely upgrade from one version to the next?" are just as
important as "What new features are coming?".

Time will tell.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Frans Thamura <frans@meruvian.org> wrote:
> I think this news is good
>
> Make us must work hard.
>
> Time will tell
>
> Like linux, now lead.
>
> On Apr 4, 2012 5:57 PM, "Diego Parrilla Santamaría"
> <diego.parrilla.santamaria@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Immaturity of a platform is something you can easily fix paying the right
>> fee to your favorite analyst firm.
>>
>> Seriously, Openstack is an open platform and an open community. This means
>> problems and issues are open to discuss to everyone. Propietary platforms
>> issues are rarely disclosed, and they look more mature. And believe me, I
>> have used most of them and Openstack is not more unstable (or stable) than
>> others.
>>
>> Anyway, it's time to move the stack from 'devs' to 'ops'. When somebody
>> says 'you have to install the development version to fix this' instead of
>> 'you have to follow this procedure on the stable version', you cannot
>> imagine the damage made to Openstack Nova. It's painful, but it's the only
>> way to have a robust platform. Let's forget about 'you will have it in the
>> next release': we are not Microsoft. This is real, not vapourware.
>>
>> My two cents
>> Diego
>>
>> --
>> Diego Parrilla
>> CEO
>> www.stackops.com |  diego.parrilla@stackops.com | +34 649 94 43 29
>> | skype:diegoparrilla
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>>> highly immature platform.
>>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>>
>>> Any comments on that?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance :)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>

_______________________________________________
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Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
The "immaturity" being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment.
Such statements are not new, and well known from "enterprises" point of view.
I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc...

This is an endless statement : "Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ?" The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers...
But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP.

Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating.
When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner


Nuage & Co - Razique Mahroua
razique.mahroua@gmail.com



Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit :

> It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want
> pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if
> you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to
> bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with
> OpenStack than with other projects in this space.
>
> Just my $.02 worth.
>
> Jacek Artymiak
> author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/
> (please submit patches so we can improve this document)
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>> highly immature platform.
>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>
>> Any comments on that?
>>
>> Thank you in advance :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Hmmmm. While ease of deployment is definitely "an area of future strength" for OS, the gap is closing rapidly and the reality for the enterprise is that initial, comparable (apples to apples) VMWare installations all come with an initial professional services engagement anyway.

Having just done a bake-off twixt the latest OS builds and VMWare for creating an enterprise private IaaS cloud, my strategic money's on OpenStack and the community is starting to make significant in-roads on the tactical value as well.

Lots of "areas of future strength" but the promise remains immense and the feasibility for the enterprise continues to grow.

Keep up the good work. Keep Calm, Carry On, and all that.

Jan

PS: Anybody got an extra ticket to the design summit?


On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:14 AM, Razique Mahroua <razique.mahroua@gmail.com> wrote:

> The "immaturity" being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment.
> Such statements are not new, and well known from "enterprises" point of view.
> I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc...
>
> This is an endless statement : "Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ?" The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers...
> But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP.
>
> Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating.
> When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner
>
>
> Nuage & Co - Razique Mahroua
> razique.mahroua@gmail.com
>
> <NUAGECO-LOGO-Fblan_petit.jpg>
>
> Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit :
>
>> It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want
>> pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if
>> you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to
>> bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with
>> OpenStack than with other projects in this space.
>>
>> Just my $.02 worth.
>>
>> Jacek Artymiak
>> author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/
>> (please submit patches so we can improve this document)
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>>> highly immature platform.
>>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>>
>>> Any comments on that?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance :)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 8:14 AM, Razique Mahroua
<razique.mahroua@gmail.com>wrote:

> The "immaturity" being exposed here has nothing to do with neither
> stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment.
> Such statements are not new, and well known from "enterprises" point of
> view.
> I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few
> months back about proxmox, etc...
>
> This is an endless statement : "Is it possible for a community-driven
> project to find it's place in business needs ?" The answer for Openstack is
> NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any
> CLI-less required installers...
> But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects,
> let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction
> to the OP.
>
> Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating.
> When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm
> quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner
>
>
> *Nuage & Co - Razique Mahroua** *
> razique.mahroua@gmail.com
>
>
> Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit :
>
> It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want
> pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if
> you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to
> bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with
> OpenStack than with other projects in this space.
>
> Just my $.02 worth.
>
> Jacek Artymiak
> author:
> http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/
> (please submit patches so we can improve this document)
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>
> group
> http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/
> Openstack is a
>
> highly immature platform.
>
> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>
>
> Any comments on that?
>
>
> Thank you in advance :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
> highly immature platform.
> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>
> Any comments on that?
>
> Thank you in advance :)
>

I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very
young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of
things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in
production:

1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly
substantial downtime.
2. Live migration is broken. Utterly.
3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to
upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported
every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really
old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very
likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when
nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful
right now.

That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its
immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a
VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked
appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have)
the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy
with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform
and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a
non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point
I'm comfortable with.

This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that
competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be
celebrating this ;).

- Ryan

_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much better positioned than with Diablo.



As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as expanding the feature set.



Tim Bell

CERN



From: openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+tim.bell=cern.ch@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Jan Drake
Sent: 04 April 2012 16:37
To: Razique Mahroua
Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity



Hmmmm. While ease of deployment is definitely "an area of future strength" for OS, the gap is closing rapidly and the reality for the enterprise is that initial, comparable (apples to apples) VMWare installations all come with an initial professional services engagement anyway.



Having just done a bake-off twixt the latest OS builds and VMWare for creating an enterprise private IaaS cloud, my strategic money's on OpenStack and the community is starting to make significant in-roads on the tactical value as well.



Lots of "areas of future strength" but the promise remains immense and the feasibility for the enterprise continues to grow.



Keep up the good work. Keep Calm, Carry On, and all that.

Jan



PS: Anybody got an extra ticket to the design summit?


On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:14 AM, Razique Mahroua <razique.mahroua@gmail.com> wrote:

The "immaturity" being exposed here has nothing to do with neither stability nor bugs - in fact the angle is more about an ease of deployment.

Such statements are not new, and well known from "enterprises" point of view.

I remember same articles about Linux, few years back about Zimbra, few months back about proxmox, etc...



This is an endless statement : "Is it possible for a community-driven project to find it's place in business needs ?" The answer for Openstack is NO, when it comes to ease of deployment compared to VMmware, and any CLI-less required installers...

But even if fantastic progress has been made, on the different projects, let's face it, even more progress are required today to give a satisfaction to the OP.



Let's keep working as we are doing : fixing, testing, thinking, updating.

When all the projects will be stable enough to work on a same level - I'm quite confident we could see more positives feedbacks from Gartner





Nuage & Co - Razique Mahroua

razique.mahroua@gmail.com


<NUAGECO-LOGO-Fblan_petit.jpg>



Le 4 avr. 2012 à 14:48, Jacek Artymiak a écrit :





It depends on what you expect OpenStack to do for you. If you want
pre-packaged, click-to-install software, it is not there, yet. But if
you want to be able to influence the future of the project you want to
bet your business on, you have a much higher chance of doing that with
OpenStack than with other projects in this space.

Just my $.02 worth.

Jacek Artymiak
author: http://docs.openstack.org/api/openstack-compute/programmer/content/
(please submit patches so we can improve this document)

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Sébastien Han <han.sebastien@gmail.com> wrote:



Hi everyone,



According to the statement of this article from Gartner

group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a

highly immature platform.

But why? What's make Openstack so immature?



Any comments on that?



Thank you in advance :)


_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp



_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
There are many projects rolled up into the thing called "OpenStack".
Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking
about when they say "OpenStack". This does a huge disservice to the
other projects especially Swift.

It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the
Nova brush.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane <rlane@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>> highly immature platform.
>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>
>> Any comments on that?
>>
>> Thank you in advance :)
>>
>
> I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very
> young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of
> things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in
> production:
>
> 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly
> substantial downtime.
> 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly.
> 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to
> upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported
> every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really
> old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very
> likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when
> nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful
> right now.
>
> That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its
> immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a
> VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked
> appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have)
> the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy
> with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform
> and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a
> non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point
> I'm comfortable with.
>
> This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that
> competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be
> celebrating this ;).
>
> - Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
+1000

I believe the nova team should make backporting essential bugs to a
stable essex base and dealing with the upgrade issue the highest
priority for the start (at least) of the Folsom cycle. We need people to
deploy real systems using Essex. With regard to smooth upgrades, they
won't happen if the issue is always punted to the end of a release
cycle. The way to do this is to create a test very early in Folsom that
demonstrates how a real large-scale style deployment can be upgraded to
a new version containing no code changes. Any future change that breaks
that test must be evaluated to compare the value of the change against
whatever upgrade pain will be caused. In terms of real deployments,
this issue scares me more than the fact that there are bugs. There will
always be bugs. But we can't have it be tricky and risky to deploy the
fixes.

-David

On 4/4/2012 2:30 PM, Tim Bell wrote:
>
> Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done
> by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much
> better positioned than with Diablo.
>
> As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and
> planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become
> factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user
> stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as
> expanding the feature set.
>
> Tim Bell
>
> CERN
>
>
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Maybe it would be more interesting, instead of getting on the defensive to instead start asking what people think is broken or is immature and fix those areas.

Push forward, get peoples feelings about it, and take it as constructive input. If people think its immature, ask for why and then fix those points...

-Josh

On 4/4/12 1:05 PM, "Jay Payne" <letterj@gmail.com> wrote:

There are many projects rolled up into the thing called "OpenStack".
Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking
about when they say "OpenStack". This does a huge disservice to the
other projects especially Swift.

It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the
Nova brush.



On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane <rlane@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>> highly immature platform.
>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>
>> Any comments on that?
>>
>> Thank you in advance :)
>>
>
> I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very
> young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of
> things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in
> production:
>
> 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly
> substantial downtime.
> 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly.
> 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to
> upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported
> every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really
> old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very
> likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when
> nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful
> right now.
>
> That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its
> immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a
> VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked
> appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have)
> the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy
> with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform
> and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a
> non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point
> I'm comfortable with.
>
> This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that
> competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be
> celebrating this ;).
>
> - Ryan
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
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Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Another perspective worth considering is immaturity vs growth. Are
there enough progresses being made? When problems are identified, are
these solved swiftly and effectively? I think the people involved in
the OpenStack community do and have done a great job in this regard,
and should be praised rather than bashed.

I personally think that talking about immaturity does not address the
major question one should ask: assess if the platform fit the bill for
whatever goals/requirements one has.

So going back to Sébastien Han's question: what are you looking for in
OpenStack?

My 2c
A.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Joshua Harlow <harlowja@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Maybe it would be more interesting, instead of getting on the defensive to
> instead start asking what people think is broken or is immature and fix
> those areas.
>
> Push forward, get peoples feelings about it, and take it as constructive
> input. If people think its immature, ask for why and then fix those
> points...
>
> -Josh
>
>
> On 4/4/12 1:05 PM, "Jay Payne" <letterj@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There are many projects rolled up into the thing called "OpenStack".
> Nova is only one of them and is the one that most people are talking
> about when they say "OpenStack".   This does a huge disservice to the
> other projects especially Swift.
>
> It's very frustrating to see the other projects all painted with the
> Nova brush.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryan Lane <rlane@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>> According to the statement of this article from Gartner
>>>
>>> group http://blogs.gartner.com/lydia_leong/2012/04/03/citrix-cloudstack-openstack-and-the-war-for-open-source-clouds/ Openstack is a
>>> highly immature platform.
>>> But why? What's make Openstack so immature?
>>>
>>> Any comments on that?
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance :)
>>>
>>
>> I agree that it's an immature platform. That said, it's also a very
>> young platform and isn't that to be expected? There's a number of
>> things that need to be fixed before I'd ever recommend Nova's use in
>> production:
>>
>> 1. There's no upgrade path currently. Upgrading requires fairly
>> substantial downtime.
>> 2. Live migration is broken. Utterly.
>> 3. Every release fixes so many things that it's really important to
>> upgrade every time; however, only one release will likely be supported
>> every Ubuntu LTS release, meaning you're either stuck with a really
>> old (likely broken) version of nova, or you're stuck will a very
>> likely unstable version of Ubuntu. This will be easier over time, when
>> nova is more stable and has less bugs, but it's incredibly painful
>> right now.
>>
>> That said, I feel OpenStack's strengths greatly outweigh its
>> immatureness. I ran a private cloud at my last organization using a
>> VMWare ESXi cluster. It was more mature, upgrades worked
>> appropriately, live migration was solid, etc. I had (and still have)
>> the choice to run VMWare for my current project and am extremely happy
>> with my choice of OpenStack. The flexibility provided by the platform
>> and my ability to contribute to its future make its immaturity a
>> non-concern. Every release gets closer and closer to a stability point
>> I'm comfortable with.
>>
>> This article isn't bad news. In fact, I'd say it shows that
>> competitors see OpenStack as a fairly major threat. We should be
>> celebrating this ;).
>>
>> - Ryan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to     : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>

_______________________________________________
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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
+10000.

On 04/04/2012 04:20 PM, David Kranz wrote:
> +1000
>
> I believe the nova team should make backporting essential bugs to a
> stable essex base and dealing with the upgrade issue the highest
> priority for the start (at least) of the Folsom cycle. We need people to
> deploy real systems using Essex. With regard to smooth upgrades, they
> won't happen if the issue is always punted to the end of a release
> cycle. The way to do this is to create a test very early in Folsom that
> demonstrates how a real large-scale style deployment can be upgraded to
> a new version containing no code changes. Any future change that breaks
> that test must be evaluated to compare the value of the change against
> whatever upgrade pain will be caused. In terms of real deployments, this
> issue scares me more than the fact that there are bugs. There will
> always be bugs. But we can't have it be tricky and risky to deploy the
> fixes.
>
> -David
>
> On 4/4/2012 2:30 PM, Tim Bell wrote:
>>
>> Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done
>> by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much
>> better positioned than with Diablo.
>>
>> As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and
>> planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become
>> factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user
>> stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as
>> expanding the feature set.
>>
>> Tim Bell
>>
>> CERN
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
+ ?

On 4/5/12 9:43 AM, "Jay Pipes" <jaypipes@gmail.com> wrote:

+10000.

On 04/04/2012 04:20 PM, David Kranz wrote:
> +1000
>
> I believe the nova team should make backporting essential bugs to a
> stable essex base and dealing with the upgrade issue the highest
> priority for the start (at least) of the Folsom cycle. We need people to
> deploy real systems using Essex. With regard to smooth upgrades, they
> won't happen if the issue is always punted to the end of a release
> cycle. The way to do this is to create a test very early in Folsom that
> demonstrates how a real large-scale style deployment can be upgraded to
> a new version containing no code changes. Any future change that breaks
> that test must be evaluated to compare the value of the change against
> whatever upgrade pain will be caused. In terms of real deployments, this
> issue scares me more than the fact that there are bugs. There will
> always be bugs. But we can't have it be tricky and risky to deploy the
> fixes.
>
> -David
>
> On 4/4/2012 2:30 PM, Tim Bell wrote:
>>
>> Essex is a key release in this respect. With the excellent work done
>> by the developers, testers and packaging teams, OpenStack is much
>> better positioned than with Diablo.
>>
>> As the work proceeds on Folsom, back porting critical bugs and
>> planning for a smooth migration path for production sites will become
>> factors in keeping the early adopters enthusiastic. These are the user
>> stories that will drive the next wave of OpenStack growth as much as
>> expanding the feature set.
>>
>> Tim Bell
>>
>> CERN
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

_______________________________________________
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Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
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More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need
to expand this page:

http://openstack.org/user-stories/

Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and
maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized
IT shop could related to.

This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes
the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.


--

Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com
Ph: (415) 894-9269 ---- Fax: (602)296-0400
Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME
and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and
about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about
deployment and usage?

yours,

michaël


Michaël Van de Borne
R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC
Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16, Skype: mikemowgli
www.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi


Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
> I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we
> need to expand this page:
>
> http://openstack.org/user-stories/
>
> Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
> there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy
> (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a
> mid-range sized IT shop could related to.
>
> This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes
> the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.
>
>
> --
>
> Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com <mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
> Ph: (415) 894-9269 ---- Fax: (602)296-0400
> Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Hey Guys

One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers
are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as
discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to
the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a
cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to
the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.

If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built
product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the
community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .

Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be
improved , improve it and give it back.

Cheers

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne <
michael.vandeborne@cetic.be> wrote:

> I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME
> and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about
> 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment
> and usage?
>
> yours,
>
> michaël
>
>
> Michaël Van de Borne
> R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC
> Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45 Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16, Skype: mikemowgliwww.cetic.be, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi
>
>
> Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
>
> I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need
> to expand this page:
>
> http://openstack.org/user-stories/
>
> Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
> there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and
> maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized
> IT shop could related to.
>
> This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes
> the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.
>
>
> --
>
> Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com
> Ph: (415) 894-9269 ---- Fax: (602)296-0400
> Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


--
Best Regards

Saurabh
www.safewlabs.com | www.smbtechedge.com
saurabh@safewlabs.com | +919833096120
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
+1 well said

Saurabh <saurabh@safewlabs.com> wrote:



Hey Guys

One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.

If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .

Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back.

Cheers

On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne <michael.vandeborne@cetic.be<mailto:michael.vandeborne@cetic.be>> wrote:
I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage?

yours,

michaël



Michaël Van de Borne
R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC
Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45<tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045> Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16<tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016>, Skype: mikemowgli
www.cetic.be<http://www.cetic.be>, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi


Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page:

http://openstack.org/user-stories/

Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to.

This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.


--

Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com<mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
Ph: (415) 894-9269<tel:%28415%29%20894-9269> ---- Fax: (602)296-0400<tel:%28602%29296-0400>
Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix





_______________________________________________
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Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


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--
Best Regards

Saurabh
www.safewlabs.com<http://www.safewlabs.com> | www.smbtechedge.com<http://www.smbtechedge.com>
saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com> | +919833096120<tel:%2B919833096120>
Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
+2 , I go with Saurabh.


Thanks
Meena Raja


From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM
To: Saurabh
Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity


+1 well said



Saurabh <saurabh@safewlabs.com> wrote:


Hey Guys

One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.

If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .

Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back.

Cheers
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne <michael.vandeborne@cetic.be<mailto:michael.vandeborne@cetic.be>> wrote:
I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage?

yours,

michaël




Michaël Van de Borne

R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC

Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45<tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045> Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16<tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016>, Skype: mikemowgli

www.cetic.be<http://www.cetic.be>, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi

Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page:

http://openstack.org/user-stories/

Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to.

This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.


--

Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com<mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
Ph: (415) 894-9269<tel:%28415%29%20894-9269> ---- Fax: (602)296-0400<tel:%28602%29296-0400>
Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix




_______________________________________________

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Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>

Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>

More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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--
Best Regards

Saurabh
www.safewlabs.com<http://www.safewlabs.com> | www.smbtechedge.com<http://www.smbtechedge.com>
saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com> | +919833096120<tel:%2B919833096120>

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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly. We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't — please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user!

Jim


From: <raja.meena@wipro.com<mailto:raja.meena@wipro.com>>
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 +0000
To: Mark Collier <mark.collier@rackspace.com<mailto:mark.collier@rackspace.com>>, <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>>
Cc: <openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>>
Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity

+2 , I go with Saurabh.


Thanks
Meena Raja


From: openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net> [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net] On Behalf Of Mark Collier
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM
To: Saurabh
Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity


+1 well said



Saurabh <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>> wrote:


Hey Guys

One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.

If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .

Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be improved , improve it and give it back.

Cheers
On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne <michael.vandeborne@cetic.be<mailto:michael.vandeborne@cetic.be>> wrote:
I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about deployment and usage?

yours,

michaël




Michaël Van de Borne

R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC

Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45<tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045> Mobile: +32 (0)472 69 57 16<tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016>, Skype: mikemowgli

www.cetic.be<http://www.cetic.be>, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041 Charleroi

Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we need to expand this page:

http://openstack.org/user-stories/

Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a mid-range sized IT shop could related to.

This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the perceived immaturity of OpenStack.


--

Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com<mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
Ph: (415) 894-9269<tel:%28415%29%20894-9269> ---- Fax: (602)296-0400<tel:%28602%29296-0400>
Twitter: cowmix -------------- Skype: Cowmix




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--
Best Regards

Saurabh
www.safewlabs.com<http://www.safewlabs.com> | www.smbtechedge.com<http://www.smbtechedge.com>
saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com> | +919833096120<tel:%2B919833096120>

Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.

The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s) and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.

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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
hi Jim!

This is Thomas / GPLHost. Do you remember me? :)

I've noticed that despite GPLHost involvement in
promoting Openstack and maintaining it in Debian,
as well as my recent effort to have XCP in Debian
as well, allowing anyone to use Xen together with
Openstack, GPLHost is never listed anywhere on the
Openstack website or other materials.

Could you make this change? Do you need a .ai logo
or something similar?

Cheers,

thomas goirand (from my phone)

----- Original message -----
> I agree 100% with Michael.  We need more users to come forward publicly.
>  We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a
> t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company
> name or clients names that we can list.  I have already been chatting
> with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't —
> please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user!
>
> Jim
>
>
> From: <raja.meena@wipro.com<mailto:raja.meena@wipro.com>>
> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 +0000
> To: Mark Collier
> <mark.collier@rackspace.com<mailto:mark.collier@rackspace.com>>,
> <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>> Cc:
> <openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
>
> +2  , I  go with Saurabh.
>
>
> Thanks
> Meena Raja
>
>
> From:
> openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net>
> [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net] On
> Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh
> Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
>
>
> +1 well said
>
>
>
> Saurabh <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Guys
>
> One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers
> are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as
> discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations
> to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a
> cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back
> to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.
>
> If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community
> built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to
> the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .
>
> Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be
> improved , improve it and give it back.
>
> Cheers
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne
> <michael.vandeborne@cetic.be<mailto:michael.vandeborne@cetic.be>> wrote:
> I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME
> and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and
> about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about
> deployment and usage?
>
> yours,
>
> michaël
>
>
>
>
> Michaël Van de Borne
>
> R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC
>
> Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45<tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045> Mobile:
> +32 (0)472 69 57 16<tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016>, Skype:
> mikemowgli
>
> www.cetic.be<http://www.cetic.be>, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041
> Charleroi
>
> Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
> I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we
> need to expand this page:
>
> http://openstack.org/user-stories/
>
> Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
> there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy
> (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a
> mid-range sized IT shop could related to.
>
> This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the
> perceived immaturity of OpenStack.
>
>
> --
>
> Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com<mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
> Ph: (415) 894-9269<tel:%28415%29%20894-9269> ---- Fax:
> (602)296-0400<tel:%28602%29296-0400> Twitter: cowmix --------------
> Skype: Cowmix
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
>
> Post to        :
> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
>
> Unsubscribe :
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
>
> More help    : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list:
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> Post to        :
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> Unsubscribe :
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> More help    : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
>
> Saurabh
> www.safewlabs.com<http://www.safewlabs.com> |
> www.smbtechedge.com<http://www.smbtechedge.com>
> saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com> |
> +919833096120<tel:%2B919833096120>
>
> Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.
>
> The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments
> to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s)
> and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If
> you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate,
> distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and
> destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.
>
> WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient
> should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.
> The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
> transmitted by this email.
>
> www.wipro.com
>
> _______________________________________________ Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to :
> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
Stefano will send you the logo form



Thomas Goirand <thomas@goirand.fr> wrote:


hi Jim!

This is Thomas / GPLHost. Do you remember me? :)

I've noticed that despite GPLHost involvement in
promoting Openstack and maintaining it in Debian,
as well as my recent effort to have XCP in Debian
as well, allowing anyone to use Xen together with
Openstack, GPLHost is never listed anywhere on the
Openstack website or other materials.

Could you make this change? Do you need a .ai logo
or something similar?

Cheers,

thomas goirand (from my phone)

----- Original message -----
> I agree 100% with Michael. We need more users to come forward publicly.
>  We are working on an updated tool for submitting that data (and a
> t-shirt incentive!), but in the meantime please send me your company
> name or clients names that we can list. I have already been chatting
> with many of you about this separately, but for all those I haven't —
> please stand up and identify yourselves as an OpenStack user!
>
> Jim
>
>
> From: <raja.meena@wipro.com<mailto:raja.meena@wipro.com>>
> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 11:43:41 +0000
> To: Mark Collier
> <mark.collier@rackspace.com<mailto:mark.collier@rackspace.com>>,
> <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>> Cc:
> <openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
>
> +2 , I go with Saurabh.
>
>
> Thanks
> Meena Raja
>
>
> From:
> openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net>
> [mailto:openstack-bounces+raja.meena=wipro.com@lists.launchpad.net] On
> Behalf Of Mark Collier Sent: Friday, April 06, 2012 4:54 PM To: Saurabh
> Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] OpenStack immaturity
>
>
> +1 well said
>
>
>
> Saurabh <saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Guys
>
> One of the user stories from my company. We are an SME and our customers
> are SMEs too. We are working on releasing documents in detail as well as
> discussing with the customers, for releasing the entire customizations
> to the community. We are working on releasing all these in the form of a
> cookbook. We want to all to benefit from our experience as giving back
> to the community is a strong part of the open source ecosystem.
>
> If people call OpenStack immature they should learn it's a community
> built product, if they feel it lacks in some way they should report to
> the community or feel free to fix stuff themselves :) .
>
> Stop worrying about gartner, if you feel it's something that can be
> improved , improve it and give it back.
>
> Cheers
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Michaël Van de Borne
> <michael.vandeborne@cetic.be<mailto:michael.vandeborne@cetic.be>> wrote:
> I'm about to install OpenStack for a customer in a few days. It's an SME
> and their first production cloud would be limited to a few hosts and
> about 60 VMs. Do you feel it'd be worth getting their feedback about
> deployment and usage?
>
> yours,
>
> michaël
>
>
>
>
> Michaël Van de Borne
>
> R&D Engineer, SOA team, CETIC
>
> Phone: +32 (0)71 49 07 45<tel:%2B32%20%280%2971%2049%2007%2045> Mobile:
> +32 (0)472 69 57 16<tel:%2B32%20%280%29472%2069%2057%2016>, Skype:
> mikemowgli
>
> www.cetic.be<http://www.cetic.be>, rue des Frères Wright, 29/3, B-6041
> Charleroi
>
> Le 06/04/12 02:28, Michael March a écrit :
> I've been giving this thread some thought and it dawned on my that we
> need to expand this page:
>
> http://openstack.org/user-stories/
>
> Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
> there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy
> (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a
> mid-range sized IT shop could related to.
>
> This lack of antidotal user experiences I think contributes the
> perceived immaturity of OpenStack.
>
>
> --
>
> Michael F. March ----- mmarch@gmail.com<mailto:mmarch@gmail.com>
> Ph: (415) 894-9269<tel:%28415%29%20894-9269> ---- Fax:
> (602)296-0400<tel:%28602%29296-0400> Twitter: cowmix --------------
> Skype: Cowmix
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
>
> Post to :
> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
>
> Unsubscribe :
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
>
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
> Post to :
> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
> Unsubscribe :
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenstack>
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
>
> Saurabh
> www.safewlabs.com<http://www.safewlabs.com> |
> www.smbtechedge.com<http://www.smbtechedge.com>
> saurabh@safewlabs.com<mailto:saurabh@safewlabs.com> |
> +919833096120<tel:%2B919833096120>
>
> Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary.
>
> The information contained in this electronic message and any attachments
> to this message are intended for the exclusive use of the addressee(s)
> and may contain proprietary, confidential or privileged information. If
> you are not the intended recipient, you should not disseminate,
> distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately and
> destroy all copies of this message and any attachments.
>
> WARNING: Computer viruses can be transmitted via email. The recipient
> should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses.
> The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus
> transmitted by this email.
>
> www.wipro.com
>
> _______________________________________________ Mailing list:
> https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to :
> openstack@lists.launchpad.net<mailto:openstack@lists.launchpad.net>
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help :
> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


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Re: OpenStack immaturity [ In reply to ]
On Thu, 2012-04-05 at 17:28 -0700, Michael March wrote:
> Pretty much everyone featured on that page are 'big' organizations and
> there really isn't any detail on their experiences of trying to deploy
> (and maintain) Openstack. There's definitely not stories that a
> mid-range sized IT shop could related to.

This sounds reasonable. The user stories page is an open project,
anybody can participate. Do you know any small shop that would like to
be featured there? Let me know

stef


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