Mailing List Archive

Geolocation tools - IPv6 style
Hello NANOG, first time writing to here.

My inquiry for you is on the subject of IPv6 Geolocation tools; or
better yet, the lack accuracy in them. My main problem comes from
YouTube.com and other Google Geolocation required tools (Google Voice,
being an example). I must set network.dns.disableIPv6 to true just to
access a lot of videos on YouTube, and to access my Google voice and
similar services. I am unsure what country it thinks I am from when I
access via IPv6, but it sure thinks I am foreign to the US.

I understand that all Geolocation can, at most, point to the local
routing station of that person's ISP. The current progress in the IPv6
field of geolocation is mostly pointing at countries, not even states or
cities unlike IPv4. Is there something majorly different about the
ability to track IPs in v6, than there was in v4? Or are the main
producers of this data just busy / do not see IPv6 as being profitable /
not worth their time?

Another problem I have (which isn't really relevant to the subject, but
if anyone has the same problem when loading via IPv6 I would be
interested in hearing about it), would be the loading of YouTube
content. Pages will seemingly load partially, and always be "Waiting on
s.ytimg.com". http://s.ytimg.com/ loads instantly for me via IPv6, but
not via videos. Has anyone else experenced the same problem? If I use v4
to load YouTube, the video instantly loads. There could be heavy load
from my broker (he.net), but all other sites load instantly.

Thanks for your time.
Re: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style [ In reply to ]
On 2010-08-16 13:01, Harry Strongburg wrote:
> Hello NANOG, first time writing to here.
>
> My inquiry for you is on the subject of IPv6 Geolocation tools; or
> better yet, the lack accuracy in them. My main problem comes from
> YouTube.com and other Google Geolocation required tools (Google Voice,
> being an example). I must set network.dns.disableIPv6 to true just to
> access a lot of videos on YouTube, and to access my Google voice and
> similar services. I am unsure what country it thinks I am from when I
> access via IPv6, but it sure thinks I am foreign to the US.

[.Well..... you do have a .lu domain in your email address]

The moment you have the ability to go to amazon/ebay/$onlineshop and
order all kinds of random junk and give your address to the retailers in
question and this has been done enough all the geolocation database will
be nicely filled after a while.

Thus don't forget to provide all your private details in as many places
as possible, the more they know about you, the better they can serve you.

Just wait a few years and all will be fine, when IPv4 just started to be
used there was none if this geolocation stuff either.


Geolocation for restricting based on 'copyright regions' or similar
things is the worst idea ever btw, especially as one can simply get a
"VPS" with some VPN in the location that you need it and voila, you get
around these silly restrictions, just like getting a .lu domain.
Of course everybody knows&understands this except for layer 8 and up.

Greets,
Jeroen
Re: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style [ In reply to ]
On Aug 16, 2010, at 4:41 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote:

> On 2010-08-16 13:01, Harry Strongburg wrote:
>> Hello NANOG, first time writing to here.
>>
>> My inquiry for you is on the subject of IPv6 Geolocation tools; or
>> better yet, the lack accuracy in them. My main problem comes from
>> YouTube.com and other Google Geolocation required tools (Google Voice,
>> being an example). I must set network.dns.disableIPv6 to true just to
>> access a lot of videos on YouTube, and to access my Google voice and
>> similar services. I am unsure what country it thinks I am from when I
>> access via IPv6, but it sure thinks I am foreign to the US.
>
> [.Well..... you do have a .lu domain in your email address]
>
> The moment you have the ability to go to amazon/ebay/$onlineshop and
> order all kinds of random junk and give your address to the retailers in
> question and this has been done enough all the geolocation database will
> be nicely filled after a while.
>
> Thus don't forget to provide all your private details in as many places
> as possible, the more they know about you, the better they can serve you.
>
Wow... That's pretty absurd. I order stuff from Amazon/etc. from IP addresses
all over the world to be shipped to my office or my home in California. Does
that mean that the Geolocation things are getting confused about all of these
IP addresses I use at random and moving them to California?

If that's the case, no wonder Geolocation by IP is such a quagmire of
inaccuracy.

> Just wait a few years and all will be fine, when IPv4 just started to be
> used there was none if this geolocation stuff either.
>
And even in IPv4 it's still wrong as often as not.

>
> Geolocation for restricting based on 'copyright regions' or similar
> things is the worst idea ever btw, especially as one can simply get a
> "VPS" with some VPN in the location that you need it and voila, you get
> around these silly restrictions, just like getting a .lu domain.
> Of course everybody knows&understands this except for layer 8 and up.
>
For once, Jeroen, I happen to agree with you, although I think you'd be
surprised at the number of layer 4-7 people who actually don't get it.

Owen
Re: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style [ In reply to ]
I have the feeling that the systems is not able to understand at all IPv6 for geolocation therefore default to "foreign".

I'm not aware of anyone providing IPv6 geolocation at the moment? Anyone has pointers?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Strongburg" <harry.nanog@harry.lu>
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Monday, 16 August, 2010 11:01:01 PM
Subject: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style

Hello NANOG, first time writing to here.

My inquiry for you is on the subject of IPv6 Geolocation tools; or
better yet, the lack accuracy in them. My main problem comes from
YouTube.com and other Google Geolocation required tools (Google Voice,
being an example). I must set network.dns.disableIPv6 to true just to
access a lot of videos on YouTube, and to access my Google voice and
similar services. I am unsure what country it thinks I am from when I
access via IPv6, but it sure thinks I am foreign to the US.

I understand that all Geolocation can, at most, point to the local
routing station of that person's ISP. The current progress in the IPv6
field of geolocation is mostly pointing at countries, not even states or
cities unlike IPv4. Is there something majorly different about the
ability to track IPs in v6, than there was in v4? Or are the main
producers of this data just busy / do not see IPv6 as being profitable /
not worth their time?

Another problem I have (which isn't really relevant to the subject, but
if anyone has the same problem when loading via IPv6 I would be
interested in hearing about it), would be the loading of YouTube
content. Pages will seemingly load partially, and always be "Waiting on
s.ytimg.com". http://s.ytimg.com/ loads instantly for me via IPv6, but
not via videos. Has anyone else experenced the same problem? If I use v4
to load YouTube, the video instantly loads. There could be heavy load
from my broker (he.net), but all other sites load instantly.

Thanks for your time.
Re: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style [ In reply to ]
On 2010-08-16 14:52, Owen DeLong wrote:
[..]
>> Thus don't forget to provide all your private details in as many places
>> as possible, the more they know about you, the better they can serve you.
>>
> Wow... That's pretty absurd. I order stuff from Amazon/etc. from IP addresses
> all over the world to be shipped to my office or my home in California. Does
> that mean that the Geolocation things are getting confused about all of these
> IP addresses I use at random and moving them to California?
>
> If that's the case, no wonder Geolocation by IP is such a quagmire of
> inaccuracy.

If you where actually running a larger site then you would know that
having millions upon millions of customers returning from a certain
range of addresses and providing their details which then match up give
you a confidence factor, then just set that at factor X you locate that
address down another level etc.

Thus that one time that you go and order from some site and ship it home
won't influence it all that much, as a hundred/thousand other people
will have provided a more 'local' address to where that IP is used.

Indeed, those systems cannot be 100% accurate, so what, if you tunnel it
won't matter anyway. There are always ways around, it does work for most
cases and that is what it is good enough for.

[..]
> For once, Jeroen, I happen to agree with you, although I think you'd be
> surprised at the number of layer 4-7 people who actually don't get it.

Let alone the supposed layer <3 people...

Greets,
Jeroen
Re: Geolocation tools - IPv6 style [ In reply to ]
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 01:39:47 +1200 (FJT), Franck Martin
<franck@genius.com> wrote:
> I have the feeling that the systems is not able to understand at all
> IPv6 for geolocation therefore default to "foreign".
>
> I'm not aware of anyone providing IPv6 geolocation at the moment?
> Anyone has pointers?

Maxmind has an IPv6 database at
http://www.maxmind.com/app/geolitecountry

It is very rudimentary. Given that the number of native IPv6
connections on the residential market is still very limited, it will, at
best, return the location of your tunnel provider. Not very useful right
now, especially of your tunnel provider is not local to you.

Patrick Vande Walle