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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 02:19:28PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
> What I think some people are missing is that no-one is suggesting
> that anyone *has* to change from how they work now. If anyone wants
> to keep TV and video separate then they will be able to do so - and
> I'd expect the default for the later system to look just like the
> system does now.
>
> So for all those "I don't want to work that way" people - you won't
> have to. If the suggestion ever makes it into reality, then for
> those that do want to, they will have the option.

Given whatt happened with MythMusic, I cancertainly understand
why some people might wish to declare their satisfaction level with
the status quoo and their disinterestin things being changed.

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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
Simon Hobson wrote:
> Thomas Boehm wrote:
>
>> If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo.
>
> Keeping all the metadata ?

Yep, if you follow the file naming conventions then MythTV will take
care of it and fetch it from TheTVDB and TMDB. On top of that I also
write the metadata which MythTV got from the EPG in the MKV file itself
with mkvmerge.



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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On 5/31/12 6:47 AM, Christopher Kerr wrote:
> TV is, for now, primarily chronological. People watch it and discuss
> it for a few days after it airs. Most television is disposable rubbish.
>
If you're ever in Massachusetts, maybe you should stop by our house :-).
We have over 3,000 TV recordings. Some are new things we watch daily (in
the case of our kids, over and over), many are archived things that we
might want to watch again someday, but most are programs that sit around
for months and even years before we watch them for the first time. We
still have every episode of Heroes and Fringe, but have yet to watch any
of them.

My point is that you cannot make generalizations about the "best" way to
use this technology. Everyone will use it differently.

--
Dan Wilga "Ook."

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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
<Snip>

If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
> folder and everybody is happy.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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>

Better way

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Mythvidexport.py
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti <tom@redpepperracing.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Thomas Boehm
> <mythtv-users@lists.boehmi.net> wrote:
>> Simon Hobson wrote:
>>> Christopher Kerr wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My videos are different. Everything in my videos library is something
>>>> I like, and they exist in a timeless void. Where I like my television
>>>> in a simple chronological list, I want to browse my videos as a gallery.
>>>
>>> But that's a somewhat arbitrary division.
>>>
>>> Essentially, what you are saying is that if it came from TV then it
>>> should be ditched after watching once, if it came on a DVD then it's
>>> kept. OK, so what about stuff that can come on either ? What about stuff
>>> you kept on TV, but then had to start getting on DVD ?
>>
>> You don't get it. If one wants to keep a TV show, then one has already a
>> userjob set up, which converts it and puts it in mythvideo. Mythvideo
>> acts as an archive for me and most people from what I read here. There's
>> a reason why there is no auto expire in mythvideo.
>>
>> I don't see the point in mixing the two because of maybe 5% or less of
>> my recordings I want to keep too.
>>
>> If you want to have your recordings in mythvideo, you can already do it
>> right now. Just use mythlink.pl to create the links inside your video
>> folder and everybody is happy.
>
> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
> interface to Videos, so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
> manual tweaking required.
>
> For our use case, this works. For your use case, it doesn't work. Your
> use case isn't superior to mine, nor is mine to yours, just different,
> I don't get why I need to be forced to use your scenario, especially
> if there is a potential solution that can fit both use cases.
>
> Again, I'm not sure why we are arguing about this, and why people have
> such a vehement opinion about it, nothing has been changed, and
> nothing has even formally been proposed, other than an idea floated by
> Michael Dean. I'm sure he's chuckling away somewhere... :)
>
> Tom

in theory, whomever is going to do anything, will hopefully read this
thread for ideas, and as to whether to proceed or not. that said, that
was not the case with the MythMusic overhaul, so, yea...

First, as with when most things change, sometimes a paradigm shift
needs to occur. I hold no respect for those incapable of accepting
paradigm shifts for the greater good. That said, I hate change for the
worse, so lets not see if these concerns can't be managed and
integrated into a more easily accepted solution.

From what I can tell, the two main arguments against the ideas of integration.

First is how things like home videos, and the like, should not be
integrated into a user interaction system that is basically designed
for TV shows (ie the Watch Recordings screen).
I have to agree about this, I don't have home videos, but I can see
how that would be initially confusing, and organizationally odd. That
said, I could see how, with proper planning, this situation could be
handled smoothly with some added features to the the interface of the
Watch Recordings screen.

The other is the concept of the temporary nature of recordings vs the
permanency of other sourced material.
For this, while I can see the initial concern, it seems based on the
idea that the issues could not be easily overcome. I'm trying to
understand Mr Kerr's concern about mixing tv recorded episodes and
"saved"(ie physical media sourced, or transcoded recordings) episodes.
If I understand correctly, his concerns are that
- he may delete episodes he means to keep?
- that he won't know that a recording is a recording and will be
deleted over time?

So let me throw out some idea as to how this could be done, with these
two concerns in mind.

First, "Groups" needs to be converted to a tags system. I think this
is obvious and somewhat regardless of any other changes. Minimally it
would work the same, but put to good use would provide a high level of
powerful filtering. So lets assume, from the beginning that whether
this occurs before, or as part of, the integration, that this is a
component we get to work with.
Lets also, for the sake of clarity, continue to refer to non-tv
recorded material as Videos, and tv as, well, TV.
Automatic tagging of Videos by their stored folder location, should
occur, and should be dynamic. How this occurs, auto-naming by folder
name, or by a specific user given tag name for items in that folder is
of no concern overall.
IE if one has a "Home Videos" folder in their Videos heirarchy, all
videos under that will be auto-tagged with that folders tag.
in such a way, ripped movies, placed in a "Movies" folder, could then
also be auto-tagged as "Movie", etc.
A tag feature that would be useful to solve some of the issues are the
idea of "root" tags, or tags that have a greater hierarchical
significance, "Categories" we'll call them, some will be built in,
others can be created by the user. Built-in ones, which will have
special functioning in the interface should include: Recorded, TV
Shows, and Movies. Perhaps others?

From there, the newly integrated playback selection screen, "Watch
Stuff" we'll call it for now, should have some features that allow for
more filtered separation of videos by their tags and metadata.
Right now, if the theme developer chooses, they can have the Watch
Recordings screen display Recording Groups and allow the user to
easily switch between them, and all recordings, using a mappable
button, which i think defaults to track/chapter forward and
track/chapter back on the remote. We could use this feature concept to
allow the user to switch between the Categories such that what is
displayed is filtered by what is selected.

From here, two view types would be possible, one that caters to
Title/subtitle metadata (tv shows, home videos, etc) and another to
Title metadata (ie Movies).

For the built in Categories of Recorded and TV Shows, (and whatever
else is come up with), they can default to Title/subtitle metadata,
Movies, etc to just Title metadata. This would be displayed much like
the current Watch Recordings screen. The views should mesh such that
there is not big visual switch in how the display looks, just a slight
change in how the data is presented.

The "All" view should however have some special features in it's Title column.

Recorded should be the initial entry point, and of course show only
recorded shows in the order the user chooses (ie right now the user
can choose what chronological order recordings are displayed, this
would stay and be used for this category) which then mimics the
current initial view upon entering Watch Recordings, and give the user
a clearly displayed view of what has been recorded in their preferred
sort order.

The ability to have other Categories with only Title metadata as their
view in the title column could be had too so Movies would get an entry
in All as well.

I think this would not be too far off of what we're all used to now,
while integrating MythVideo and Watch Recordings, while meeting the
issues people have voiced so far.


--
Steve
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On 29.05.2012 15:31, Lindsay Mathieson wrote:
> On Tue, 29 May 2012 09:26:19 AM Tom Lichti wrote:
>> And I disagree 110%. Media is media, regardless of the source,
>
> So you want your music mixed in with your videos? its all media after all

... and I want my VOD content from mythnetvision in there, too.
Preferably as a recording as the stations are only allowed to publish
most content for 7 days over here.

Regards,
Karl
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
Karl Dietz wrote:
> ... and I want my VOD content from mythnetvision in there, too.
> Preferably as a recording as the stations are only allowed to publish
> most content for 7 days over here.

get_iplayer --get ...
mythnettv importlocal ...

If you can get it through an RSS feed, then just mythnettv will do.
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.
Why shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a
generic "media" storage? I'm serious here--hear me out. (Besides, what
is Mythgame but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that
happen to be game emulators instead of video players?)

There are two things to consider, and they can be independent: How do
we track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
interface. In general, if we segregate things in the backend database,
it is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other
way is easy.

So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata.
I'll define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a
media file, like "game" or "auto-expire." A metadatum is much like a
tag, but it is a key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist:
<internal reference>." (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with
a blank value for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)

If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in
a manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in
interesting ways, probably including many that developers never
considered. For example, a good music playlist system could be used for
slideshows of photos.

The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
different ways. The goal for the backend design should be to provide
maximum flexibility for the frontend.
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Preston Crow
<pc-mythtv08a@crowcastle.net> wrote:
> Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.  Why
> shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a generic
> "media" storage?  I'm serious here--hear me out.  (Besides, what is Mythgame
> but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that happen to be game
> emulators instead of video players?)
>
> There are two things to consider, and they can be independent:  How do we
> track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
> interface.  In general, if we segregate things in the backend database, it
> is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other way is
> easy.
>
> So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata. I'll
> define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a media file,
> like "game" or "auto-expire."  A metadatum is much like a tag, but it is a
> key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist: <internal
> reference>."  (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with a blank value
> for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)
>
> If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in a
> manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in interesting
> ways, probably including many that developers never considered.  For
> example, a good music playlist system could be used for slideshows of
> photos.
>
> The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
> could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
> different ways.  The goal for the backend design should be to provide
> maximum flexibility for the frontend.

my only comment to that is, build the framework for this first by
merging the obvious (recordings and mythvideo), building in the
ability to add anything else, then merge the rest in.

otherwise, I agree, it's possible, and would not be a huge paradigm
shift once the initial merge is accomplished.

my one fear though, mostly because of the debacle that is the new
MythMusic, is that without the right people handling it, it could turn
into a cluster<expletive>.

--
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 1:05 AM, Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Preston Crow
> <pc-mythtv08a@crowcastle.net> wrote:
>> Lots of good discussion here, but I don't think we're going far enough.  Why
>> shouldn't we merge videos, recordings, photos, and games into a generic
>> "media" storage?  I'm serious here--hear me out.  (Besides, what is Mythgame
>> but a clone of Mythvideo using external media players that happen to be game
>> emulators instead of video players?)
>>
>> There are two things to consider, and they can be independent:  How do we
>> track things in the database, and how do we display them in the user
>> interface.  In general, if we segregate things in the backend database, it
>> is difficult to merge them in the user interface, but going the other way is
>> easy.
>>
>> So what we need to track media is a combination of tags and metadata. I'll
>> define a tag as a value that is either present or absent for a media file,
>> like "game" or "auto-expire."  A metadatum is much like a tag, but it is a
>> key-value pair, such as "Title: Babylon 5" or "Cutlist: <internal
>> reference>."  (Of course, my tags could just be metadata with a blank value
>> for the key, which might further simplify the implementation.)
>>
>> If we converted all our current media stores to use tags and metadata in a
>> manner like I described, we could then easily merge things in interesting
>> ways, probably including many that developers never considered.  For
>> example, a good music playlist system could be used for slideshows of
>> photos.
>>
>> The user interface could stay the same with this change, and new options
>> could be provided that combine and segregate various media types in
>> different ways.  The goal for the backend design should be to provide
>> maximum flexibility for the frontend.
>
> my only comment to that is, build the framework for this first by
> merging the obvious (recordings and mythvideo), building in the
> ability to add anything else, then merge the rest in.
>
> otherwise, I agree, it's possible, and would not be a huge paradigm
> shift once the initial merge is accomplished.
>
> my one fear though, mostly because of the debacle that is the new
> MythMusic, is that without the right people handling it, it could turn
> into a cluster<expletive>.

When I read this thread I think, yeah merge everything and give us
plenty of tags.

For example we have had a major disaster here last year, an earthquake. I have:

* photos I took
* videos I took
* photos others took and gave to me or I downloaded from web sites
* links to web pages with quake info, news, official photos, royal
commission hearings etc etc
* recorded and saved tv news programmes from the days after the quake
* videos downloaded from youtube
* two versions of a doco movie (one broadcast on the anniversary (in
recordings) and one from the dvd which is longer and in video)

Why not be able to bring them up all at once? Bring up the earthquake tag.

Same could go for a recent holiday - photos, videos, doco on the location etc.
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
> interface to Videos,

FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because
the proper configuration, today, is different from the default
configuration of the past). Now, I have an appreciation for what Video
Library brings

Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
Video Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
(meaning the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you
to change the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)"
(meaning the MENU should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you
to change the setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views
appropriately, choose the one whose interface looks best to you/works
best for you.

(Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat
view" and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)

A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I
helped him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his
kids' videos (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds
of times, each :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips,
etc. Once we set up Video Library properly, the interface was /much/
easier for the kids than it would have been if everything were in Watch
Recordings. And in Video Library, he can set a default filter on each
frontend, so the kids' frontend opens right up to their videos.

> so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
> manual tweaking required.

And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large
collections of video.

The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording
group for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording
groups, categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but
changing view requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group
Filter, then selecting a filter. In Video Library, I can create folders
to organize my videos however I like, and can browse between folders as
simply as hitting left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply
filters based on everything from category to genre to year to user
rating to watched status to date the video was added to the library...
Also, in Video Library, all my videos can be given useful file
names--such that even if I lose the MythTV database, I know what each
video is (and Video Library can pull the metadata automatically). There
are other benefits, too, but these are the main ones.

IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching
and deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to
Video Library. Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings
that appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent"
storage of (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.

Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
configured). It's not your grandfather's Video Library... ;)

Mike
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>
>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>> interface to Videos,
>
>
> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because the
> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration of
> the past).  Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>
> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the setting).
>  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>
> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat view"
> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>
> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I helped
> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc.  Once we set up
> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than it
> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings.  And in Video
> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids' frontend
> opens right up to their videos.
>
>
>>  so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>> manual tweaking required.
>
>
> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large collections
> of video.
>
> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording group
> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing view
> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
> selecting a filter.  In Video Library, I can create folders to organize my
> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as hitting
> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched status
> to date the video was added to the library...  Also, in Video Library, all
> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull the
> metadata automatically).  There are other benefits, too, but these are the
> main ones.
>
> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching and
> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
> Library.  Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>
> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
> configured).  It's not your grandfather's Video Library...  ;)
>
> Mike

Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
6 years ago.

Tom
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On 06/08/2012 10:17 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>>> interface to Videos,
>>
>> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
>> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because the
>> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration of
>> the past). Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>>
>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the setting).
>> Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
>> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>
>> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat view"
>> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>>
>> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I helped
>> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
>> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
>> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc. Once we set up
>> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than it
>> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings. And in Video
>> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids' frontend
>> opens right up to their videos.
>>
>>
>>> so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>>> manual tweaking required.
>>
>> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
>> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large collections
>> of video.
>>
>> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording group
>> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
>> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing view
>> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
>> selecting a filter. In Video Library, I can create folders to organize my
>> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as hitting
>> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
>> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched status
>> to date the video was added to the library... Also, in Video Library, all
>> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
>> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull the
>> metadata automatically). There are other benefits, too, but these are the
>> main ones.
>>
>> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching and
>> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
>> Library. Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
>> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
>> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>>
>> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
>> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
>> configured). It's not your grandfather's Video Library... ;)
> Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
> played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
> 6 years ago.

Thank you for keeping an open mind and for taking another look. And, as
I'm a pretty strong believer in this approach, I'd appreciate any
feedback you (or others) have on it--and anything you find lacking--as
you look at Video Library, again, with fresh eyes.

As we move toward a more unified recordings and video schema, some of
the differences disappear, but I want to ensure that there's absolutely
no reason that someone would need to hack together an approach to "fake"
a recording to allow them to stick non-recording (or at least,
not-recorded-by-*this*-MythTV-system--i.e. if you lose the database from
an old system in some catastrophe or something) video into recording
schema. Any user-provided/user-managed/user-named video should go in
Video Library. (For the purposes of this thought exercise, just pretend
that it's irrelevant whether you use Watch Recordings or Video Library.)

Mike
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 11:00 AM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 10:17 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>>
>>> On 05/31/2012 10:27 AM, Tom Lichti wrote:
>>>>
>>>> No, you don't get it, I was not happy with that solution. We hate the
>>>> interface to Videos,
>>>
>>>
>>> FWIW, I felt the exact same way--until I was taught how to properly
>>> configure Video Library (which I had been doing wrong--primarily because
>>> the
>>> proper configuration, today, is different from the default configuration
>>> of
>>> the past).  Now, I have an appreciation for what Video Library brings
>>>
>>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
>>> Video
>>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
>>> (meaning
>>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>>> setting).
>>>  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose the one
>>> whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>>
>>> (Note that in 0.24 and below, these settings were "Enable/Disable Flat
>>> view"
>>> and "File Browse Mode"--where you wanted both disabled.)
>>>
>>> A friend of mine who uses MythTV had a similar change of heart when I
>>> helped
>>> him reconfigure Video Library when he wanted to organize his kids' videos
>>> (which he has to keep so the kids can watch them hundreds of times, each
>>> :)--some of which were recorded, some from DVD rips, etc.  Once we set up
>>> Video Library properly, the interface was /much/ easier for the kids than
>>> it
>>> would have been if everything were in Watch Recordings.  And in Video
>>> Library, he can set a default filter on each frontend, so the kids'
>>> frontend
>>> opens right up to their videos.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  so I have hacked a system that makes Videos show
>>>> up in the Recordings screen, as it's more intuitive to use, and better
>>>> organized for our usage, and works well enough, with the occasional
>>>> manual tweaking required.
>>>
>>>
>>> And, now that I've configured Video Library properly, I feel it's /much/
>>> more intuitive to use and better organized--especially for large
>>> collections
>>> of video.
>>>
>>> The difference is that in Watch Recordings, I get a single recording
>>> group
>>> for each recording, and I can show a list of titles, recording groups,
>>> categories and/or filter by recording group or category--but changing
>>> view
>>> requires MENU (once or twice, as required)|Change Group Filter, then
>>> selecting a filter.  In Video Library, I can create folders to organize
>>> my
>>> videos however I like, and can browse between folders as simply as
>>> hitting
>>> left/right--but I /still/ have the ability to apply filters based on
>>> everything from category to genre to year to user rating to watched
>>> status
>>> to date the video was added to the library...  Also, in Video Library,
>>> all
>>> my videos can be given useful file names--such that even if I lose the
>>> MythTV database, I know what each video is (and Video Library can pull
>>> the
>>> metadata automatically).  There are other benefits, too, but these are
>>> the
>>> main ones.
>>>
>>> IMHO, anyone who archives any recordings--as opposed to simply watching
>>> and
>>> deleting the recordings--should consider moving those recordings to Video
>>> Library.  Watch Recordings is great for "ephemeral" recordings that
>>> appear/disappear, but Video Library is great for "permanent" storage of
>>> (even large numbers of) videos you actually want to keep.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the point of this post is that those who have written off Video
>>> Library should take a new look at today's Video Library (when properly
>>> configured).  It's not your grandfather's Video Library...  ;)
>>
>> Thanks Mike, I'll give that a go. I've never really gone back and
>>
>> played with the Video Library since setting it up originally, at least
>> 6 years ago.
>
>
> Thank you for keeping an open mind and for taking another look.  And, as I'm
> a pretty strong believer in this approach, I'd appreciate any feedback you
> (or others) have on it--and anything you find lacking--as you look at Video
> Library, again, with fresh eyes.
>
> As we move toward a more unified recordings and video schema, some of the
> differences disappear, but I want to ensure that there's absolutely no
> reason that someone would need to hack together an approach to "fake" a
> recording to allow them to stick non-recording (or at least,
> not-recorded-by-*this*-MythTV-system--i.e. if you lose the database from an
> old system in some catastrophe or something) video into recording schema.
>  Any user-provided/user-managed/user-named video should go in Video Library.
>  (For the purposes of this thought exercise, just pretend that it's
> irrelevant whether you use Watch Recordings or Video Library.)

If it makes my life easier, I'm all for it. If the side benefit is
that it helps someone else, even better!

Tom
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com>wrote:

Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
> setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>
>
I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
(recommended)" It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
"Browse Filesystem (slow)". Is this expected behavior? I'm also crashing
mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
issue.

I just upgraded to 0.25/fixes a few days ago (via rpmfusion on FC16).
Here's the relevant version information:

[mythtv@sirius ~]$ mythfrontend --version
Please attach all output as a file in bug reports.
MythTV Version : 0.25-6.fc16 (1a671d0)
MythTV Branch : fixes/0.25
Network Protocol : 72
Library API : 0.25.20120408-1
QT Version : 4.8.1
Options compiled in:
linux release use_hidesyms using_alsa using_jack using_oss using_pulse
using_pulseoutput using_backend using_bindings_perl using_bindings_python
using_bindings_php using_crystalhd using_dvb using_firewire using_frontend
using_hdhomerun using_ceton using_hdpvr using_iptv using_ivtv
using_joystick_menu using_libcrypto using_libdns_sd using_libfftw3
using_libxml2 using_libudf using_lirc using_mheg using_opengl_video
using_qtwebkit using_qtscript using_qtdbus using_v4l2 using_x11
using_xrandr using_xv using_bindings_perl using_bindings_python
using_bindings_php using_mythtranscode using_opengl using_vaapi using_vdpau
using_ffmpeg_threads using_live using_mheg using_libass using_libxml2
using_libudf

I'm liking things thus far!

Jerry
Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On 06/08/2012 04:23 PM, Jerry wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in Video
>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure" (meaning
>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>> setting). Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
>> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>
>>
> I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
> (recommended)" It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
> "Browse Filesystem (slow)". Is this expected behavior? I'm also crashing
> mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
> issue.

As the behavior you're describing is /exactly/ opposite what it should
be (i.e. with "Browse Filesystem (slow)" enabled, you won't get
metadata), I think you're misinterpreting the UI.

As I tried (clumsily--because it's extremely hard to describe) to
explain in my post, above, the MENU will show the
opposite-of-currently-selected option. So when Video Library is
properly configured, the MENU should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow),"
indicating if you press that button, you will be browsing the file
system and ignoring all metadata. Similarly, you probably want the MENU
to say, "Hide Directory Structure," (meaning that you're showing the
structure and that pressing the button will hide it).

We're discussing ways of improving the UI to make this less confusing.

Mike
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Re: What is being worked on for 0.26? [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:39 PM, Michael T. Dean
<mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> On 06/08/2012 04:23 PM, Jerry wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>
>>> Specifically, you want to go into each of the 3 "views" available in
>>> Video
>>> Library (Gallery, Browse, and List) and "Show Directory Structure"
>>> (meaning
>>> the MENU should offer, "Hide Directory Structure," to allow you to change
>>> the setting) and enable "Browse Library (recommended)" (meaning the MENU
>>> should say, "Browse Filesystem (slow)," to allow you to change the
>>> setting).  Then, once you've configured all 3 views appropriately, choose
>>> the one whose interface looks best to you/works best for you.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm having difficulty seeing the fanart when I switch to "Browse Library
>> (recommended)"  It all disappears and reappears when I switch back to
>> "Browse Filesystem (slow)".  Is this expected behavior?  I'm also crashing
>> mythfrontend when I change this setting back and forth, but that's another
>> issue.
>
>
> As the behavior you're describing is /exactly/ opposite what it should be
> (i.e. with "Browse Filesystem (slow)" enabled, you won't get metadata), I
> think you're misinterpreting the UI.
>
> As I tried (clumsily--because it's extremely hard to describe) to explain in
> my post, above, the MENU will show the opposite-of-currently-selected
> option.  So when Video Library is properly configured, the MENU should say,
> "Browse Filesystem (slow)," indicating if you press that button, you will be
> browsing the file system and ignoring all metadata.  Similarly, you probably
> want the MENU to say, "Hide Directory Structure," (meaning that you're
> showing the structure and that pressing the button will hide it).
>
> We're discussing ways of improving the UI to make this less confusing.
>
>
> Mike

Now that I've been able to properly scan my music library with
MythMusic I am beginning to play with it in earnest.
First, I can't get sound out, while sound everywhere else works. So
that's an issue.

But beyond that, I am on my fastest frontent, an Athlon X2 3200+ with
2GB of RAM, and I did some tests:
To scroll through my entire Artists list it takes 05min8.97seconds, my
thumb almost gave out a few times, but I managed.
If I just slowly scroll through the UI, be it Artist, Album, etc,
sometimes it can take upwards of 10 seconds to move to the next entry!
The Smart Playlist Editor takes roughly 3 seconds to move from field
to field. The overall UI is very slow. In the Edit Criteria window
when selecting the criteria, it almost alwaysl "freezes" and does not
move to the next criteria for anywhere from 5-10seconds. Almost as
though it's loading the entire db for that criteria option.
In the playlist editor, if I choose an Artist then Album, the tracks
There is no criteria that lets me input the filepath.
MUSIC IS SORTED BY TRACK NAME?! at least it looks to be properly
sorted in the "Current Play List View", though I don't know what it
uses for the sort criteria?
Search View seems to load the entire music library?

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
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