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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Johan <johan.vanderkolk@dommel.be> wrote:
> As soon as I hit one of the keys which should move right in the recording,
> the editor locks up, and I can not access the menu with M, or get any
> response from pressing the E or "escape" key.

This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
examples I have.)

Jim
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
Op 14-11-10 19:24, Jim Stichnoth schreef:
> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Johan<johan.vanderkolk@dommel.be> wrote:
>
>> As soon as I hit one of the keys which should move right in the recording,
>> the editor locks up, and I can not access the menu with M, or get any
>> response from pressing the E or "escape" key.
>>
> This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
> examples I have.)
>
> Jim
>
Thanks,

I'm running
MythTV Version : 27204
MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-24-fixes

was it fixed after that?

Johan
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On 11/14/2010 02:19 PM, Johan wrote:
> Op 14-11-10 19:24, Jim Stichnoth schreef:
>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Johan wrote:
>>> As soon as I hit one of the keys which should move right in the
>>> recording,
>>> the editor locks up, and I can not access the menu with M, or get any
>>> response from pressing the E or "escape" key.
>> This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
>> examples I have.)
> Thanks,
>
> I'm running
> MythTV Version : 27204
> MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-24-fixes
>
> was it fixed after that?

r27220

Mike
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
Op 14-11-10 22:12, Michael T. Dean schreef:
> On 11/14/2010 02:19 PM, Johan wrote:
>> Op 14-11-10 19:24, Jim Stichnoth schreef:
>>> On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Johan wrote:
>>>> As soon as I hit one of the keys which should move right in the
>>>> recording,
>>>> the editor locks up, and I can not access the menu with M, or get any
>>>> response from pressing the E or "escape" key.
>>> This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
>>> examples I have.)
>> Thanks,
>>
>> I'm running
>> MythTV Version : 27204
>> MythTV Branch : branches/release-0-24-fixes
>>
>> was it fixed after that?
>
> r27220
>
> Mike
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> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
thanks,

I'll report back if it solved my issue. Might not be tomorrow, I'll be
out of town.
You guys are fast!

Johan
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
Hi Mike,

is 9144 saying that there is an incompatability with 260 series nvidia
drivers? Do I need to make sure I dont upgrade my drivers to that
series? If that is that case could we make a note in teh known issues
on the release notes?

R
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Richard Morton
<richard.e.morton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> is 9144 saying that there is an incompatability with 260 series nvidia
> drivers? Do I need to make sure I dont upgrade my drivers to that
> series? If that is that case could we make a note in teh known issues
> on the release notes?

#9144 says that one particular revision of the nVidia drivers has a
bug, but the current one (260.19.21) in that series fixes it.

Robert
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 14, 2010 at 11:12:37AM +0100, Johan wrote:
> Op 14-11-10 09:20, Craig Sanders schreef:
> >i wrote a list of my observations.
>
> starting of with "now if only the new cutlist editor wasn't clumsy
> and awkward comparedto the 0.23 version"

yes, and IMO it is. is such blasphemy forbidden or something?

do i have to start with something like "excuse me, Master, I hesitate to
intrude on your glorious awesomeness but in my worthless humble opinion
there are a few minor points that are not quite perfect...."

> >the developer of the new editor did post a URL to the doc page for
> >the it, which i appreciated. unfortunately, he also decided to view
> >the posting of a simple list as a personal insult. two others decided
> >that this was a great opportunity to demonstrate their 'loyalty' (one
> >politely and reasonably, one aggressively). you make the third.
> Well, that shows something doesn't it?

yes, it does. it shows that (at least some of) the myth devs are
hypersensitive to any criticism, they take any negative comment about
features or changes to the software as a personal insult.

> >2. post anyway and risk upsetting a fragile ego or two.
> >
> >i chose the latter.

> So did you get any positive result now?

yes, i got a URL to the doc page for the new editor from the editor's
developer. that was worthwhile - it nicely addressed most of my
objections, leaving only the Select vs Menu key as the only major
problem.

> >>3. if you don't like the keys, there might be a way to re-assign keys
> >i already mentioned that i couldn't find any way to do that. you
> >obviously didn't actually read what i wrote (as is obvious from you
> >bogus statement that 'your initial comments were not constructive').
>
> You obviously did not know what you were writing at the time.
>
> when using a keyboard, Enter no longer works to add/delete/move a
> cutpoint. instead, you have to press M instead and then navigate
> a multi-level menu.
>
> Enter will add and delete cutpoints.

kind of. sometimes. the behaviour is inconsistent depending on where the
cursor is. it won't, however, MOVE a cut point. so there are two keys to
manipulate actual cutpoints one (Enter - which works inconsistently) to
add or delete, one (Menu) to move.

i've used the editor a bit more since then and (after reading the doc
page) i can see the reasoning and design behind the new version. as
i said in my original comments, i can learn to live with most of the
changes but losing the Select/Enter key is going to be an on-going
problem.

> Cutlist editing works fine, however not in the way you like it anymore.
> You acknowledged that you could live with this behaviour.

actually, it doesn't. having to hunt and peck for the M key rather than
the Enter key sucks. that change might be justifiable if there were
actually a good reason for it, but there isn't - it's just an arbitrary
change with no benefit.



> >BTW, i develop FOSS software myself, and have also contributed code,
> >patches, bug reports and documentation to numerous projects (including
> >one utterly trivial patch to mythweb). and i've been a debian developer
> >for about 15 years. being a bit thick-skinned and not having a fragile
> >ego is essential, as bug reports tend to be written as brief, factual
> >summaries (the good ones are, anyway). and mostly, bug reports etc by
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >their nature inevitably focus on the negative and tend to be written by
> >people who have just been bitten by the bug/change, and are affected
> >enough by it to bother writing.
>
> You did not provide a bug report. You proved a list of things you,
> personally are unhappy with.

way to go! ignore the actual substance of what i wrote and "respond"
only to the one piece of trivia which you can pretend is a devastating
mistake that completely invalidates what i said.

i said "bugreport etc". that includes feedback on lists and forums. it's
still feedback whether i've jumped through the hoops of using myth's
bugtracker or not. in any case, a formal bug report often isn't the best
first step - usually it's better and more useful to discuss the issues
on a mailing list or forum first.

do you always waste time with such pedantic point-scoring over trivialities?



> > really guys - users& devs - try to understand that someone providing
> > feedback and criticism is NOT attacking the project or the people
> > behind it. such criticism is almost exclusively motivated by a
> > desire to help and improve things.
>
> Your choice of words show me that you are a well educated person,
> who is capable of expressing himself perfectly and diplomatically if
> need be. You should have known that your comments would not be well
> received in the manner they were written in, specially taken in to
> consideration that you have been reading this list for a long time.

my original comments about the cutlist editor were well-worded and could
not have caused offense to anyone except someone who is hypersensitive
to any criticism and *determined* to find offense where none was
intended.

and, no - I should not have had to tiptoe around fragile egos just to
express my opinions and observations about the new editor. i didn't
attack, abuse, or insult anyone - my comments were politely worded and
should have been taken in the spirit they were intended (as feedback
and constructive criticism), and not as an excuse to be dramatically
offended.

the myth devs - and especially the users on the lists - should learn to
relax and not be so defensive. legitimate criticism is not the same as
an attack.

craig

--
craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On 11/14/2010 05:29 PM, Craig Sanders wrote:
> actually, it doesn't. having to hunt and peck for the M key rather than
> the Enter key sucks. that change might be justifiable if there were
> actually a good reason for it, but there isn't - it's just an arbitrary
> change with no benefit.

FWIW, there is exactly one situation for which you need to use the MENU
key. Every other action can be done with only SELECT and the
directional keys.*** And, truth be told, if you really wanted to, you
could perform that one action in that one situation that requires the
MENU key using only SELECT (though half of the time it would require one
more button press than just using MENU and the other half it would
require exactly the same number of button presses).

Determining exactly what that situation is--and how to use the editor
such that MENU is unnecessary or mostly unnecessary--is left as an
exercise to the interested reader.

Also, note that when you're complaining that the developers didn't
consider usability and made things more awkward, it's obvious you're
assuming everyone edits recordings the way you do. Remember that not
everyone in this whole wide world gets good results from MythTV's
commercial detection. Note, also, that you may find that if you were to
change the way you used the commercial detection when editing
recordings, you may be able to edit recordings even more efficiently
than you could with the old UI (and using fewer button presses--and no
need for MENU or hitting keys that are close together, other than the
arrow keys).

Mike

*** The pensive reader may actually consider the possibility that this
flexibility, in and of itself, may constitute something other than "an
arbitrary change with no benefit."
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
Hi,

I have been reading this thread with interest & disgust in equal measure.

Working as an IT project manager I understand the infuriation of
Business Analysts, Developers and Project Managers at the
unwillingness of change from users. Users hate change they dont
understand. On the other hand it is impossible to include every user
in the decision making process of making changes to systems... however
necessary.

Users need to take time to try the new methods and only comment once
they have read the documentation and reflected on the change... seeing
as 0.24 has only been out a few days that simply cant have happened in
this case without having used the release candidates for at least a
couple of weeks.

Balancing these harsh comments about the users posting here; I have to
say that the devs for Myth can be quite sensitive to criticism, but I
at no time think that the devs make changes to the system which are
not well thought out and I would expect that all these comments will
evaporate over time.

All I ask is that people read emails in the best possible way...
emails take sooooo so much of the manner of delivery due to inflexion
and intonation. I would also ask that users reflect on changes, read
the docs, ask questions and only after a significant period of time
would they make constructive - unemotional - feedback.... And I know I
am guilty of this as much as anyone else...

However, I would also be upset if I had spent time (probably hundreds
of hours in the case of each of the developers on myth 0.24) building
a project, which they gladly give away so others can use it if they
wish... BUT... what is the goal of the devs with MythTV??? to be built
for the devs to use it, or to be the best and to be used by a lot of
people? I cant see this stated any where... from the way it is
developed I would expect the latter...

This statement would set the expectation of the users.

Not all opensource projects aim to be used by a lot of people, they
simply build the system cause the devs want (or need it) and release
it to _allow_ others to use it if they wish...

Anyway, I havent tried 0.24 yet.... and I look forward to it...
THANKYOU devs for continuing to work on what is a fantastic piece of
(F)OSS software.

I hope everyone who reads this takes this email in the manner in which
it was intended.

R
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On 14 Nov 2010, at 18:24, Jim Stichnoth wrote:

>
> This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
> examples I have.)
>

I can confirm that r27220 fixed the problem for me, I can now edit all recordings.

Regards

Paul Raison




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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
Op 15-11-10 11:20, Paul Raison schreef:
> On 14 Nov 2010, at 18:24, Jim Stichnoth wrote:
>
>
>> This has been fixed in trunk and 0.24-fixes. (At least for the
>> examples I have.)
>>
>>
> I can confirm that r27220 fixed the problem for me, I can now edit all recordings.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Raison
>
>
r27220 did not fix the problem totally for me. It still hangs, but not
immediately after the first press of the right arrow. I can get to
almost the end of the recording.
The behaviour is now similar to what I achieved when I did a transcode
first, however now without the transcode step in between.

Johan
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Johan <johan.vanderkolk@dommel.be> wrote:
> r27220 did not fix the problem totally for me. It still hangs, but not
> immediately after the first press of the right arrow. I can get to almost
> the end of the recording.
> The behaviour is now similar to what I achieved when I did a transcode
> first, however now without the transcode step in between.

If it looks like the same problem (mythfrontend is unresponsive with
little or no CPU utilization), it would help to attach gdb to the
process and get a backtrace. Find the process ID of the mythfrontend
process (e.g., "pidof mythfrontend"), then follow the instructions in
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#ss22.2 on getting a
backtrace. Except that instead of the "run" command, do "attach
<process_ID_of_mythfronend>". Capture the output and maybe attach it
to ticket #9218, or create a new ticket since #9218 is locked.

Jim
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Re: cutlist editing hangs frontend [ In reply to ]
On 11/15/2010 10:36 PM, Jim Stichnoth wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Johan<johan.vanderkolk@dommel.be> wrote:
>
>> r27220 did not fix the problem totally for me. It still hangs, but not
>> immediately after the first press of the right arrow. I can get to almost
>> the end of the recording.
>> The behaviour is now similar to what I achieved when I did a transcode
>> first, however now without the transcode step in between.
>>
> If it looks like the same problem (mythfrontend is unresponsive with
> little or no CPU utilization), it would help to attach gdb to the
> process and get a backtrace. Find the process ID of the mythfrontend
> process (e.g., "pidof mythfrontend"), then follow the instructions in
> http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-22.html#ss22.2 on getting a
> backtrace. Except that instead of the "run" command, do "attach
> <process_ID_of_mythfronend>". Capture the output and maybe attach it
> to ticket #9218, or create a new ticket since #9218 is locked.
>
>
I attached the gdb backtrace to ticket 9244. The attach to the PID
stopped (not crashed) the frontend, so I used the method from the wiki.

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