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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Sharkey" <eric@lisaneric.org>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Yes that would do fine, also the one Eric Sharkey recommended has the half
> height brackets, no fan and seemes a very good price. It is however only
> 256M, I understand 512M is still required so, unless Eric confirms 256M is
> ok, I'd pass on it.

>I ran MythTV in HD on a system with a very similar card (with 256MB)
for quite a while. It did eventually go bad, but I don't think it was
due to lack of ram.

>What is it that you think requires a minimum of 512MB?

I've run 720p over a 256M system however it would not run 1080i (I am talking H.264 here). I would regard a reasonable degree of HD
future proofing (thats been promoted to the new user) to at least be able to play 1080i, and as the additional cost is relatively
small I advise the investment in ram now, rather than buy another card later, which would seem to defeat the purpose of an economic
exercise?

Also note my comments about possible additional video memory requirements for dual TV and monitor.

>Certainly for outputting SD video over S-video output I can't think of
anything that would require that.

Agreed, on its own it would be overkill, however it delivers on the future proofing offer / match with a 1080p monitor that are
largely standard now and one would expect when Jessica does buy one that it would have this capability. If one only wanted SD then
a 5200, as suggested, would be enough however as Jessica wants dual functionality then offloading the video processing to the video
card with vdpau is also a useful investment, leaving the CPU to largely do her desktop stuff. (FWIW I understand one day 256M may
be enough, but if and when that day arrives, who knows?)

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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> I would regard a reasonable degree of HD future
> proofing (thats been promoted to the new user) to at least be able to play
> 1080i, and as the additional cost is relatively small I advise the
> investment in ram now, rather than buy another card later, which would seem
> to defeat the purpose of an economic exercise?

I guess it all depends on how much later is later and just what the
time value of money is. If you replace a $30 card from 2010 with
another $30 card in 2012, but you could have just bought a $50 in
2010, it still might make sense to spend less up front if you're a
student in 2010 but have a job in 2012.

The 256MB 8400 GS I had played back Blu Ray rips in 1080p just fine,
but I also had a decent CPU to help it.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On 8/9/2010 8:45 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
> The 256MB 8400 GS I had played back Blu Ray rips in 1080p just fine,
> but I also had a decent CPU to help it.
>
> Eric
>

What video player were you using? AFAIK, mplayer is more efficient with
memory usage than the internal MythTV player.
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Sharkey" <eric@lisaneric.org>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> I would regard a reasonable degree of HD future
> proofing (thats been promoted to the new user) to at least be able to play
> 1080i, and as the additional cost is relatively small I advise the
> investment in ram now, rather than buy another card later, which would seem
> to defeat the purpose of an economic exercise?

>I guess it all depends on how much later is later and just what the
time value of money is. If you replace a $30 card from 2010 with
another $30 card in 2012, but you could have just bought a $50 in
2010, it still might make sense to spend less up front if you're a
student in 2010 but have a job in 2012.

>The 256MB 8400 GS I had played back Blu Ray rips in 1080p just fine,
but I also had a decent CPU to help it.

Perhaps we'd agree on this, Eric, at $3.00 more?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127342&cm_re=8400gs-_-14-127-342-_-Product


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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 05:19:05PM +1200, Tortise wrote:

> Perhaps we'd agree on this, Eric, at $3.00 more?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127342&cm_re=8400gs-_-14-127-342-_-Product

This one looks great to me (thanks for worrying about my finances, too
:) I can place the order today, but will hold off a few hours to give
others a chance to warn me off.

Jessica

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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:19 AM, Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> Perhaps we'd agree on this, Eric, at $3.00 more?
>
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127342&cm_re=8400gs-_-14-127-342-_-Product

Well, it's $9 more when you factor in higher shipping and no rebate,
but it is a better card.

The thing you have to be careful with here is the size of the heat
sink. The ECS card takes up only one slot, while the MSI has a double
width heat sink, so there needs to be room in the case to have an
empty slot next to the PCI Express 16 slot.

If there's room in the case, the MSI is probably the better value.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 1:06 AM, Kevin Ross <kevin@familyross.net> wrote:
> On 8/9/2010 8:45 PM, Eric Sharkey wrote:
>>
>> The 256MB 8400 GS I had played back Blu Ray rips in 1080p just fine,
>> but I also had a decent CPU to help it.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>
> What video player were you using? AFAIK, mplayer is more efficient with
> memory usage than the internal MythTV player.

Yes, I had configured MythVideo to use mplayer as the external player
for the BluRay rips. At the time (.20 or .21, I forget which) the
internal MythTV player couldn't cope with these at all.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 09:25:40AM -0400, Eric Sharkey wrote:

> The thing you have to be careful with here is the size of the heat
> sink. The ECS card takes up only one slot, while the MSI has a double
> width heat sink, so there needs to be room in the case to have an
> empty slot next to the PCI Express 16 slot.
>
> If there's room in the case, the MSI is probably the better value.

How can I determine if there is room in the case, prior to sinking the
money for the card? Open it up and look to see if there is an empty slot
next to the PCI Express 16 slot?

Jessica
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Jessica Perry Hekman
<jphekman@arborius.net> wrote:
> How can I determine if there is room in the case, prior to sinking the
> money for the card? Open it up and look to see if there is an empty slot
> next to the PCI Express 16 slot?

That's what I would do.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Sharkey" <eric@lisaneric.org>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Jessica Perry Hekman
<jphekman@arborius.net> wrote:
> How can I determine if there is room in the case, prior to sinking the
> money for the card? Open it up and look to see if there is an empty slot
> next to the PCI Express 16 slot?

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00910076&tmp_track_link=ot_recdoc/c00871067/en_ca/c00910076/loc:1&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=ca&product=3376325&lang=en#N1386

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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tortise" <tortise@paradise.net.nz>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Sharkey" <eric@lisaneric.org>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Jessica Perry Hekman
<jphekman@arborius.net> wrote:
> How can I determine if there is room in the case, prior to sinking the
> money for the card? Open it up and look to see if there is an empty slot
> next to the PCI Express 16 slot?

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00910076&tmp_track_link=ot_recdoc/c00871067/en_ca/c00910076/loc:1&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=ca&product=3376325&lang=en#N1386

There should be room for the video card however you'd lose the PCI slot, so long as you are not using that all should be fine.

_______________________________________________
Actually some excerpts from that page that clarify the potential number of monitors:

Integrated graphics using nVidia GeForce 6150LE
*Integrated video is not available if a graphics card is installed.
Use up to 256MB of PC memory (with 512MB or more total PC memory)
Supports PCI Express x16 graphics cards

So you would lose access to the on board VGA, so my suggestion of the possibility of 2 VGA monitors would not work in this case.

Also there seems significant CPU upgrade potential - if you ever felt the PC was slow....(!)

Processor upgrade information
Socket type: AM2
Motherboard supports the following processor upgrades:
AMD Phenom II Quad-Core
AMD Phenom II Triple-Core
AMD Phenom Quad-Core (A) 9xxx series (AM2+)
AMD Phenom Triple-Core (T) 8xxx series (AM2+)
AMD Athlon X4
AMD Athlon X3
AMD Athlon X2 (B) (AM2+)

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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Tortise <tortise@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> There should be room for the video card however you'd lose the PCI slot, so
> long as you are not using that all should be fine.

It really comes down to predicting which upgrade is more likely:
something that really needs a 512MB card or something that needs the
PCI slot. Your original post on this thread suggest you're
considering getting a Happaugue card. If you want to go that route,
you'll need the PCI slot.

> So you would lose access to the on board VGA, so my suggestion of the
> possibility of 2 VGA monitors would not work in this case.

The nvidia cards allow hooking a VGA monitor to the DVI port with an
adapter. I believe you can use all three ports simultaneously.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric@lisaneric.org> wrote:
> It really comes down to predicting which upgrade is more likely:
> something that really needs a 512MB card or something that needs the
> PCI slot.  Your original post on this thread suggest you're
> considering getting a Happaugue card.  If you want to go that route,
> you'll need the PCI slot.

It's worth noting that running VDPAU with a 256mb card is an
unsupported configuration - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,
and you'll get little sympathy from this list if it doesn't.

- Chris
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Christopher Kerr <mythtv@theseekerr.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric@lisaneric.org> wrote:
>> It really comes down to predicting which upgrade is more likely:
>> something that really needs a 512MB card or something that needs the
>> PCI slot.  Your original post on this thread suggest you're
>> considering getting a Happaugue card.  If you want to go that route,
>> you'll need the PCI slot.
>
> It's worth noting that running VDPAU with a 256mb card is an
> unsupported configuration - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,
> and you'll get little sympathy from this list if it doesn't.
>

Yeah, when I got my first revo 1600, with 256 shared to video, I could
play *a lot* of my media, but HDPVR 1080 recordings were a no go, and
high rate atsc 1080i was a no go as well..

So NO 1080 hdpvr recording would play, and almost all 1080i US
broadcast would play.. I had no issues with anything else playing
that I can remember..

No, I just buy a 1GB stick and throw it in there.. They can be had
for ~25, so not a big deal.. They are getting hard to find again
right now, but I just got 2 more for $220 each.. I have 4 now (or 2
+2 on the way), and have paid 169, 199, 220, 220 for them -
supply/demand..

Once another round gets delivered from Acer, they'll be 199 new
everywhere again with refurbs as low as 160.. I just needed grabbed
these 2 because I didn't feel like waiting (and the remotes were on
sale, so it almost made up the difference).. Now I just have a few
extra of the crappy 2.5" sata drives they come with :)
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Christopher Kerr <mythtv@theseekerr.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 7:01 AM, Eric Sharkey <eric@lisaneric.org> wrote:
>> It really comes down to predicting which upgrade is more likely:
>> something that really needs a 512MB card or something that needs the
>> PCI slot. Your original post on this thread suggest you're
>> considering getting a Happaugue card. If you want to go that route,
>> you'll need the PCI slot.
>
> It's worth noting that running VDPAU with a 256mb card is an
> unsupported configuration - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't,
> and you'll get little sympathy from this list if it doesn't.

It's also worth noting that VDPAU is not required. MythTV will work
just fine without it.

Eric
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
OK! Lots of information for me.

I have a choice of three cards, but one is obviously not a good choice
(too little memory), so really a choice of two cards.

* GeForce 8400 GS, 512 MB, $36
Will take up 2 PCI slots, so I wouldn't have room to put a Hauppage in
later

* NVIDIA GeForce 9500GT, also 512 MB, more like $75
Will only take up one PCI slot so would allow later addition of a
Hauppage

I think I will go with the GeForce. If I end up wanting a Hauppage it
will probably be time to get a dedicated box. Perhaps the GeForce will
fit in that box, but if not, at $36 it wouldn't be a huge loss.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions!

Jessica

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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessica Perry Hekman" <jphekman@arborius.net>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Plans for front & back end Myth boxes


>OK! Lots of information for me.

>I have a choice of three cards, but one is obviously not a good choice
(too little memory), so really a choice of two cards.

>* GeForce 8400 GS, 512 MB, $36
Will take up 2 PCI slots, so I wouldn't have room to put a Hauppage in
later

>* NVIDIA GeForce 9500GT, also 512 MB, more like $75
Will only take up one PCI slot so would allow later addition of a
Hauppage

>I think I will go with the GeForce. If I end up wanting a Hauppage it
will probably be time to get a dedicated box. Perhaps the GeForce will
fit in that box, but if not, at $36 it wouldn't be a huge loss.

_______________________________________________

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127366&cm_re=geforce_8400_512MB-_-14-127-366-_-Product

Is a little more cost, has a fan, and would leave the PCI slot free also..... So many options!
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Re: Plans for front & back end Myth boxes [ In reply to ]
On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 08:28:33AM +1200, Tortise wrote:

> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127366&cm_re=geforce_8400_512MB-_-14-127-366-_-Product
>
> Is a little more cost, has a fan, and would leave the PCI slot free
> also..... So many options!

Oo, thanks. But too late, I placed the order already. It's OK. I don't
really need that extra PCI slot. I'll report back, let you all know how
it works.

Jessica
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