Mailing List Archive

A new theme on the way...
Hi all,

Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
that I hope to have done for .23. I know a lot of you have been happy
with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
with, so I started to work on something new. A couple of caveats
before going further. 1) The theme is going to be released under a
fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth. 2) I'm
using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute. I will
provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
will leave it up to the user to procure them. The theme will not work
properly without them. I am paying very careful attention to text
spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.

That said, the new theme is called Arclight. It takes a lot of the
lessons I learned about theming in Graphite, and applies them to
something where I didn't a) become lazy and half-ass some of the
widgets, b) emphasizes absolute consistency and usability, and c)
don't limit myself to ugly linux-standard fonts. I have really only
gotten as far as theming the basic widgets, about 2/3rds of MythVideo,
and a little bit of Watch Recordings so far, but it's enough to get a
sense of the overall style. So far, I am very, very happy with it and
I've already switched to using it full-time (which I have found is the
key to getting a theme done).

Arclight is a true 1920x1080 theme, and the added screen real estate
makes a huge difference in fitting lots of information on the screen
without ever feeling cramped. It's a real pleasure to theme at this
resolution so far, and I don't see myself going back. Arclight *will*
work on 720p displays (I'm developing it on one) but looks best at
native resolution. Arclight will not support 4:3 or standard def
displays, it is absolutely unreadable at such low resolution.

Here are some (large!) screenshots from the actual UI (no mockups):

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/browse.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/detail.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/edit.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/menu.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/mv_tree.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/search.png

Bear in mind that I'm only about 5-6 days in to working on it, but I'm
very satisfied so far and I'm finding myself having a lot of fun
theming it.

For you aspiring themers out there, I strongly encourage you to read
Stuart Morgan's plea for themers that went out earlier today. MythUI
is by no means a finished product, but it's a *great* time to start
work on a theme. If you're like me, it may be the second one before a
lot of things start to "click," but that's totally okay and it's fun
to be a part of something lots of people in the community use.

Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
over the coming months in time for .23.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
>Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
>over the coming months in time for .23.


It looks really good. But i hope you release it a little earlier. Looking back on previous versions of MythTV it would take 12-24 months before we could use your theme if you should wait for 0.23. That would be sad.

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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:53 AM, raptor jr<raptorjr@hotmail.com> wrote:
> It looks really good. But i hope you release it a little earlier. Looking
> back on previous versions of MythTV it would take 12-24 months before we
> could use your theme if you should wait for 0.23. That would be sad.

A couple things about this-- The goal is not to let it go too long
until .23. Ideally, the gap between .22 and .23 will be much, much
shorter than ever before, though I will refrain from making any
promises. More importantly, there's quite a lot of MythUI that is
not yet implemented-- things like video previews, animated
buttonlists, transitions, GL effects, and the like. Releasing
Arclight early would prevent me from using any of these things planned
for .23, and I won't do that. Graphite, which was a comparatively
simple theme, took me seven months, thus my reason for starting early
with Arclight. A theme is definitely *not* something you throw
together in a weekend, and releasing it sooner would mean rushing it--
which brings me to my last point-- the whole idea of Arclight is a
theme where I refuse to make any concessions or compromises.
Releasing sooner just to release sooner would be the biggest
compromise of all.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:

> That said, the new theme is called Arclight.  It takes a lot of the
> lessons I learned about theming in Graphite, and applies them to

It's looking great so far. I've been using the Graphite theme to
great extent with a few tweaks here and there for personal preference.
The new theme seems to flow very well from the screenshots you've
posted thus far. I'll be keeping an eye out for a testing/pre-release
version!

--Dave
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/9/12 David Madsen <david.madsen@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Robert McNamara
> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That said, the new theme is called Arclight.  It takes a lot of the
>> lessons I learned about theming in Graphite, and applies them to
>
>

Hi Robert

I am bumping this subject again. I just checked your link again, and
the (new) screenshots are great.
Does this theme's menu have horizontal (like Graphite) or vertical
navigation? IMHO is vertical easier to use.


Do you have a roughly time frame?

Thanks for a really beautiful work.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Robert
>
> I am bumping this subject again. I just checked your link again, and
> the (new) screenshots are great.
> Does this theme's menu have horizontal (like Graphite) or vertical
> navigation?  IMHO is  vertical easier to use.
>

Arclight has horizontal menus at the moment:

http://www.fecitfacta.com/widgets.png

Anything can change but this is what I'm going with for now.

>
> Do you have a roughly time frame?
>

Arclight is basically 90% "done for .22" right now, but I likely won't
be releasing it until .23 as I would rather give it too much time to
develop than too little. My goal was to have it as close to done w/
.22's MythUI's tools by the release, and then to add new .23
functionalities and tweak usability during the next development
period. The goal is for .23 to be out much much more quickly than .22
took, so you likely have less long to wait than you might think.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/10/21 Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Robert
>>
>> I am bumping this subject again. I just checked your link again, and
>> the (new) screenshots are great.
>> Does this theme's menu have horizontal (like Graphite) or vertical
>> navigation?  IMHO is  vertical easier to use.
>>
>
> Arclight has horizontal menus at the moment:
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/widgets.png
>
> Anything can change but this is what I'm going with for now.
>
>>
>> Do you have a roughly time frame?
>>
>
> Arclight is basically 90% "done for .22" right now, but I likely won't
> be releasing it until .23 as I would rather give it too much time to
> develop than too little.  My goal was to have it as close to done w/
> .22's MythUI's tools by the release, and then to add new .23
> functionalities and tweak usability during the next development
> period.  The goal is for .23 to be out much much more quickly than .22
> took, so you likely have less long to wait than you might think.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Looking good Robert.. :)

is it ready yet? is it ready yet? ;)
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/10/21 Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Robert
>>
>> I am bumping this subject again. I just checked your link again, and
>> the (new) screenshots are great.
>> Does this theme's menu have horizontal (like Graphite) or vertical
>> navigation?  IMHO is  vertical easier to use.
>>
>
> Arclight has horizontal menus at the moment:
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/widgets.png
>
> Anything can change but this is what I'm going with for now.
>
>>
>> Do you have a roughly time frame?
>>
>
> Arclight is basically 90% "done for .22" right now, but I likely won't
> be releasing it until .23 as I would rather give it too much time to
> develop than too little.  My goal was to have it as close to done w/
> .22's MythUI's tools by the release, and then to add new .23
> functionalities and tweak usability during the next development
> period.  The goal is for .23 to be out much much more quickly than .22
> took, so you likely have less long to wait than you might think.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Just a quck question you might be able to answer...

I plan on trying to create a theme myself and was wondering if the new
UI supports being able to show submenus at the same time as the top
level menus (like this one:
http://g2.emag.cz/magazin/1719/ps3_menu.jpg) ?
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Roy Lofthouse <lofty69@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just a quck question you might be able to answer...
>
> I plan on trying to create a theme myself and was wondering if the new
> UI supports being able to show submenus at the same time as the top
> level menus (like this one:
> http://g2.emag.cz/magazin/1719/ps3_menu.jpg) ?

Not at the moment. Anything is possible for the future but I'm not
sure whether or not the cross-style menus are even planned.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/10/21 Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:11 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Robert
>>
>> I am bumping this subject again. I just checked your link again, and
>> the (new) screenshots are great.
>> Does this theme's menu have horizontal (like Graphite) or vertical
>> navigation?  IMHO is  vertical easier to use.
>>
>
> Arclight has horizontal menus at the moment:
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/widgets.png
>
> Anything can change but this is what I'm going with for now.
>
>>
>> Do you have a roughly time frame?
>>
>
> Arclight is basically 90% "done for .22" right now, but I likely won't
> be releasing it until .23 as I would rather give it too much time to
> develop than too little.  My goal was to have it as close to done w/
> .22's MythUI's tools by the release, and then to add new .23
> functionalities and tweak usability during the next development
> period.  The goal is for .23 to be out much much more quickly than .22
> took, so you likely have less long to wait than you might think.
>
> Robert

0.23? We don't even have 0.22 final out...
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 0.23? We don't even have 0.22 final out...


Doesn't mean we're not planning ahead. :) Just wait, and all things
will be revealed...

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
Slightly offtopic, but I'm on a device which won't play nice with the
screenshots at the moment:

I love the look of most of Graphite, but I find the Watch Recordings screen
to be almost unusable in layout - what style is planned for this upcoming
theme? Would love to see a return to vertical text-dominated lists, to be
honest.

- Chris

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 2:45 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Ma Begaj <derliebegott@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 0.23? We don't even have 0.22 final out...
>
>
> Doesn't mean we're not planning ahead. :) Just wait, and all things
> will be revealed...
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
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> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Christopher Kerr
<mythtv@theseekerr.com> wrote:
> Slightly offtopic, but I'm on a device which won't play nice with the
> screenshots at the moment:
>
> I love the look of most of Graphite, but I find the Watch Recordings screen
> to be almost unusable in layout - what style is planned for this upcoming
> theme? Would love to see a return to vertical text-dominated lists, to be
> honest.
>
> - Chris

Please bottom post on this list.

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
>

Excellent, seems to strike a good balance of text content and
graphics, stunning to look at those screenshots
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
>

Excellent, seems to strike a good balance of text content and
graphics, stunning to look at those screenshots
_______________________________________________

I wish I could get my hands on it early. I like Graphite, but I love how
Arclight is turning out.

MarcT

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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, MarcT <myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Robert McNamara
> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
>>
>
> Excellent, seems to strike a good balance of text content and
> graphics, stunning to look at those screenshots
> _______________________________________________
>
> I wish I could get my hands on it early. I like Graphite, but I love how
> Arclight is turning out.
>

Agreed. Robert, you are really torturing us with those gorgeous screen shots.

--
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ryan patterson <ryan.goat@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, MarcT <myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Robert McNamara
>> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
>>>
>>
>> Excellent, seems to strike a good balance of text content and
>> graphics, stunning to look at those screenshots
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> I wish I could get my hands on it early. I like Graphite, but I love how
>> Arclight is turning out.
>>
>
> Agreed.  Robert, you are really torturing us with those gorgeous screen shots.
>

Who says this isn't my evil plan to get you all writing themes of your own? ;)

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:05 PM, ryan patterson <ryan.goat@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:32 PM, MarcT <myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Robert McNamara
> >> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
> >>>
> >>
> >> Excellent, seems to strike a good balance of text content and
> >> graphics, stunning to look at those screenshots
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >> I wish I could get my hands on it early. I like Graphite, but I love how
> >> Arclight is turning out.
> >>
> >
> > Agreed. Robert, you are really torturing us with those gorgeous screen
> shots.
> >
>
> Who says this isn't my evil plan to get you all writing themes of your own?
> ;)
>
> Robert
>
>
Disallowing derivative works would be a pretty ass-backwards way of
encouraging people to build upon your work.


--
Chris Ribe
Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Chris Ribe <chrisribe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Disallowing derivative works would be a pretty ass-backwards way of
> encouraging people to build upon your work.
>

But an excellent way of encouraging them to learn on their own. FWIW,
most of the beloved Myth Themes of the past were not GPL, they were
Creative Commons, just as this theme is likely to be.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com
> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Chris Ribe <chrisribe@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Disallowing derivative works would be a pretty ass-backwards way of
> > encouraging people to build upon your work.
> >
>
> But an excellent way of encouraging them to learn on their own.


No, it's a terrible way of encouraging them to learn on their own, which is
what I was getting at earlier.

I am aware that there is a long history of popular non-GPL themes, but a
license that "disallows copying or derivative works" is unlike any Creative
Commons license I am aware of.

That said, I'm not trying to persuade you to pick a particular license for
your unreleased theme. I might even pony up for your (awesome looking)
proprietary theme and the (not so special looking) font if I the font in
question wasn't so...blah. My only point is that releasing low cost high
quality proprietary software is just about the worst way imaginable to
encourage people to produce their own competing software.

Seriously, if Microsoft claimed that the extended free public beta of
Windows 7 was intended to encourage Linux development, would you believe
them?


--
Chris Ribe
Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Chris Ribe <chrisribe@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am aware that there is a long history of popular non-GPL themes, but a
> license that "disallows copying or derivative works" is unlike any Creative
> Commons license I am aware of.
>

Then you owe it to yourself to learn more about Creative Commons.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/us/


> That said, I'm not trying to persuade you to pick a particular license for
> your unreleased theme.  I might even pony up for your (awesome looking)
> proprietary theme and the (not so special looking) font if I the font in
> question wasn't so...blah.  My only point is that releasing low cost high
> quality proprietary software is just about the worst way imaginable to
> encourage people to produce their own competing software.

Just so nobody gets the wrong idea-- My theme will cost *nothing* and
I will make *nothing* from releasing it. But as a work of *art* it is
perfectly reasonable for me to want to ensure users use it in
unmodified state. You may be unable to tell the difference between
(or at least, unable to see the advantages of) my choice of font and
free alternatives, but that is not to say that I, or others cannot.
If I could drop *any other font* in and have it look as good to me, I
would do so. Despite my best efforts, I can't.

>
> Seriously, if Microsoft claimed that the extended free public beta of
> Windows 7 was intended to encourage Linux development, would you believe
> them?
>

It's entirely dissimilar. Windows is a for profit product. My theme
is entirely free, with the proviso that nobody hack it to pieces.
IMO, I've done my part for this project, and it's perfectly reasonable
of me to ask that in return for my pouring countless hours, creative
thinking, and enthusiasm into it, that the user not modify it. You
don't have to like it, or use it, but it doesn't make my perspective
any less valid. If people enjoy the look of my theme and it gets them
excited about possibly writing their own works, all the better.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
Chris Ribe wrote:
> I am aware that there is a long history of popular non-GPL themes, but a
> license that "disallows copying or derivative works" is unlike any
> Creative Commons license I am aware of.

There's a whole series of Creative Commons licenses, so people can pick
whatever they find suits their purposes best. They're basically a
combination of three variables: Is attribution required? Is commercial
use allowed? Are derivative works allowed? There are versions of the
license with pretty much any combination of these you like. The only
thing they have in common is all of them allow some form of copying:
http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/

Artwork is a different animal than code and a GPL license doesn't make a
lot of sense for art. (What's the "source code" of a painting?) The
most GPL-like Creative Commons license would probably be
Attribution-Share Alike, which allows derivative works as long as
they're licensed under the same terms, and as long as the original
artist is credited.

A lot of artists are pretty uncomfortable with letting others alter
their work and then redistribute it. It can really make you look bad if
the alterations are off-color or even just plain incompetent.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:38 PM, David Brodbeck <gull@gull.us> wrote:
> Chris Ribe wrote:
>>
>> I am aware that there is a long history of popular non-GPL themes, but a
>> license that "disallows copying or derivative works" is unlike any Creative
>> Commons license I am aware of.
>
> There's a whole series of Creative Commons licenses, so people can pick
> whatever they find suits their purposes best.  They're basically a
> combination of three variables: Is attribution required?  Is commercial use
> allowed?  Are derivative works allowed?  There are versions of the license
> with pretty much any combination of these you like.  The only thing they
> have in common is all of them allow some form of copying:
> http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/

Indeed. Copying will be fine. The license was borne out of my choice
of font, and my anticipation that if I allowed derivative works, that
someone would invariably hack together "the free Arclight"-- if I
can't find a font that comes close to being as elegant, then I have
some serious reservations about allowing anyone else to do so. Since
copying doesn't have anything to do with this issue, it'll be fine to
redistribute.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:38 AM, David Brodbeck <gull@gull.us> wrote:

> The only thing they have in common is all of them allow some form of
> copying:
> http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/
>
>

Exactly, which is why I was wondering why Robert would say, "The theme is
going to be released under a
fairly restrictive license that disallows copying." He has since corrected
that statement.



--
Chris Ribe
Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Chris Ribe <chrisribe@gmail.com> wrote:
>He has since corrected that statement.
>
>

s/corrected that statement/changed my mind/

T,FTFY.

Robert
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