Mailing List Archive

LiveTV limited number of channels
A strange thing happened to me last night. I hardly every use LiveTV but I
was chatting with a friend who said "have you seen what's on Film4 right
now?" so I tried to tune to Film4. I couldn't do so because Watch TV was
only offering me a limited number of channels (7 or 8 TV channels and 1
radio channel). I've seen this behaviour since multirec was introduced and
I'd always assumed it's because both physical tuners are in use and it's
only showing me channels that are on the same multiplexes as they are tuned
to. However I don't think there's a multiplex with that selection of
channels - I don't think there's one with just one radio channel for a
start.

When I checked what was recording it was two overlapping programs on the
same channel. So I went to the program guide, found Film4 and told it to
record the current program. Which it happily did and I was able to watch the
recording.

So I guess my question is how does it decide which channels are available?

0.21 by the way.

--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
Are you talking about in the program guide or when browse mode is
activated? If you are having a problem with the guide, I have no idea.
If it's browse mode...it's never worked like that. It always displays
only channels on the current tuner. You have to explicitly type in the
channel number for the channel you want to switch to, or select it
from the program guide. However, If you want to see all channels in
browse mode, I've submitted a patch for it, but it hasn't been
accepted yet. If you want, you can apply the patches yourself:
http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4501

--
Ron
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 12/03/2008, Ronald Frazier <ron@ronfrazier.net> wrote:
>
> Are you talking about in the program guide or when browse mode is
> activated?


The later.

If you are having a problem with the guide, I have no idea.
> If it's browse mode...it's never worked like that.


OK, good to know.

It always displays
> only channels on the current tuner.


OK. My impression is that there should have been more channels then. I
should have seen all channels on the same multiplex as Film4 right?

I may have been mistaken so I'll test it properly when I get time.

You have to explicitly type in the
> channel number for the channel you want to switch to, or select it
> from the program guide. However, If you want to see all channels in
> browse mode, I've submitted a patch for it, but it hasn't been
> accepted yet. If you want, you can apply the patches yourself:
> http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4501


Thanks for that, I may well give it a go.

As I said I don't use LiveTV often but it would be nice to know that when I
do I know what I'm doing.


--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
> > It always displays
> > only channels on the current tuner.
>
> OK. My impression is that there should have been more channels then. I
> should have seen all channels on the same multiplex as Film4 right?

It should display all channels that are configured for the particular
tuner thats in use. Ideally, that would be everything it's capable of
receiving, but maybe you don't have them all setup. Try the following:
Run the mythtv-setup program, go into the Input Connections, and see
what video source is attached to that tuner. Then go into the Channel
Editor section. This will display all the channels on your system, but
down below there is a box where you can choose to filter it by a
single video source. Do that and then look at the list of available
channels. If you don't see all the channels, that may be your problem.
However, if you see channels listed that you aren't able to browse to
on that tuner, then I'm not sure.

The only other thing I can think of is what you guessed....maybe all
your tuners were being monopolized by recordings and it was only
showing you what could be tuned on that multiplex.

--
Ron
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 07:49 -0400, Ronald Frazier wrote:
> > > It always displays
> > > only channels on the current tuner.
> >
> > OK. My impression is that there should have been more channels then. I
> > should have seen all channels on the same multiplex as Film4 right?
>
> It should display all channels that are configured for the particular
> tuner thats in use. Ideally, that would be everything it's capable of
> receiving, but maybe you don't have them all setup. Try the following:
> Run the mythtv-setup program, go into the Input Connections, and see
> what video source is attached to that tuner. Then go into the Channel
> Editor section. This will display all the channels on your system, but
> down below there is a box where you can choose to filter it by a
> single video source. Do that and then look at the list of available
> channels. If you don't see all the channels, that may be your problem.
> However, if you see channels listed that you aren't able to browse to
> on that tuner, then I'm not sure.
>
> The only other thing I can think of is what you guessed....maybe all
> your tuners were being monopolized by recordings and it was only
> showing you what could be tuned on that multiplex.

This can happen if a scheduled recording hi-jacks your tuner. If there
are other channels available on another tuner you can still type them
in and switch directly to that channel, they just don't show up in
browse mode. All the channels show up in the EPG however and the ones
you can't currently tuner are marked. (I believe the marking depends on
the theme you are using.)

This ticket http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4501 has a patch for
the browse more, but its approach uses a lot of CPU. We will probably
commit a fix which uses less CPU in the next few months as someone
gets around to implementing something more like what the EPG uses.

-- Daniel

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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Daniel Kristjansson
<danielk@cuymedia.net> wrote:
> This ticket http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4501 has a patch for
> the browse more, but its approach uses a lot of CPU. We will probably
> commit a fix which uses less CPU in the next few months as someone
> gets around to implementing something more like what the EPG uses.

I wrote that patch, and thats the first I've heard of it. Did I miss a
post in the dev forum, or was nobody going to bother to tell me they
found an issue with my patch?

--
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Ronald Frazier <ron@ronfrazier.net> wrote:
> > This ticket http://cvs.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4501 has a patch for
> > the browse more, but its approach uses a lot of CPU.
>
> I wrote that patch, and thats the first I've heard of it.

In addition, I just did some testing and I'm noticing negligible CPU
impact. I'd love more details on this.

--
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 12/03/2008, Daniel Kristjansson <danielk@cuymedia.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2008-03-12 at 07:49 -0400, Ronald Frazier wrote:
> > > > It always displays
> > > > only channels on the current tuner.
> > >
> > > OK. My impression is that there should have been more channels then. I
> > > should have seen all channels on the same multiplex as Film4 right?
> >
> > It should display all channels that are configured for the particular
> > tuner thats in use. Ideally, that would be everything it's capable of
> > receiving, but maybe you don't have them all setup. Try the following:
> > Run the mythtv-setup program, go into the Input Connections, and see
> > what video source is attached to that tuner. Then go into the Channel
> > Editor section. This will display all the channels on your system, but
> > down below there is a box where you can choose to filter it by a
> > single video source. Do that and then look at the list of available
> > channels. If you don't see all the channels, that may be your problem.
> > However, if you see channels listed that you aren't able to browse to
> > on that tuner, then I'm not sure.
> >
> > The only other thing I can think of is what you guessed....maybe all
> > your tuners were being monopolized by recordings and it was only
> > showing you what could be tuned on that multiplex.
>
>
> This can happen if a scheduled recording hi-jacks your tuner.



I'm not sure "hi-jack" is the right word since the scheduled recording was
there first. I came along once the recording was already taking place and
tried to watch livetv.

If there
> are other channels available on another tuner you can still type them
> in and switch directly to that channel, they just don't show up in
> browse mode.


I just tested this. I have 2 tuners (I have a Hauppage Nova-T 500) but if
there's already a recording taking place I can only view channels on the
same multiplex. This is true whether I browse or type the channel number.
Typing an "unavailable" channel number has no effect.

The only way I've found to view a channel on another multiplex is to start
recording it and view the recording.


All the channels show up in the EPG however and the ones
> you can't currently tuner are marked. (I believe the marking depends on
> the theme you are using.)



I just tried all the default themes - Blue, G.A.N.T., Iulius, Minimalist,
Mythcenter, Retro and Titivillus - in none of them could I see any
difference between the available and unavailable channels in the program
guide. What specifically am I looking for?

For reference, I'm running 0.21-fixes 16469


--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 12/03/2008, Ronald Frazier <ron@ronfrazier.net> wrote:
>
> > > It always displays
> > > only channels on the current tuner.
> >
> > OK. My impression is that there should have been more channels then. I
> > should have seen all channels on the same multiplex as Film4 right?
>
>
> It should display all channels that are configured for the particular
> tuner thats in use. Ideally, that would be everything it's capable of
> receiving, but maybe you don't have them all setup. Try the following:
> Run the mythtv-setup program, go into the Input Connections, and see
> what video source is attached to that tuner. Then go into the Channel
> Editor section. This will display all the channels on your system, but
> down below there is a box where you can choose to filter it by a
> single video source. Do that and then look at the list of available
> channels. If you don't see all the channels, that may be your problem.
> However, if you see channels listed that you aren't able to browse to
> on that tuner, then I'm not sure.



I only have one video source which is linked to both tuners in Input
Connections. All my channels are attached to that one video source.



--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 13/03/2008, Paul Mason <latepaul@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/03/2008, Daniel Kristjansson <danielk@cuymedia.net> wrote:
>



All the channels show up in the EPG however and the ones
> > you can't currently tuner are marked. (I believe the marking depends on
> > the theme you are using.)
>
>
>
> I just tried all the default themes - Blue, G.A.N.T., Iulius, Minimalist,
> Mythcenter, Retro and Titivillus - in none of them could I see any
> difference between the available and unavailable channels in the program
> guide. What specifically am I looking for?
>


OK, I just discovered that if I have two recordings, on different
multiplexes, on the go then channels which are on neither of those two
multiplexes are greyed out. This makes sense. As does the fact that none of
the channels were greyed out before when only one recording was taking place
(since there was a spare tuner). Unfortunately that was not consistent with
actually being able to watch these channels.

I tried manually switching between tuners (using the 'Y' key) but that had
no effect. I'll try that again tomorrow when I have a chance to try it when
no recordings are taking place.


--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 03/12/2008 08:17 PM, Paul Mason wrote:
> I tried manually switching between tuners (using the 'Y' key) but that had
> no effect. I'll try that again tomorrow when I have a chance to try it when
> no recordings are taking place.

Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327

Mike
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 13/03/2008, Michael T. Dean <mtdean@thirdcontact.com> wrote:
>
> On 03/12/2008 08:17 PM, Paul Mason wrote:
> > I tried manually switching between tuners (using the 'Y' key) but that
> had
> > no effect. I'll try that again tomorrow when I have a chance to try it
> when
> > no recordings are taking place.
>
>
> Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327
>

Ah. Cheers for that. More to test...


--
Paul Mason
Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
> > Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
> > http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327
> >

I'm maybe just being slow but I'm not quite sure I'm understanding
this. Also my setup(2 x Nova-T cards using OTA data) is quite simple
so maybe that makes it less clear to me.

Is this correct?

"Source" is the channel listing, in my case the EIT data.
"Input" is the physical tuner card?

From the above link:
* "Y" is now mapped to "NEXTSOURCE"
* "C" is mapped to "NEXTINPUT" which replaces "TOGGLEINPUTS"

So does "NEXTSOURCE" also change to an approriate input and
"NEXTINPUT" change to another card with the same source?

Cheers
Stephen
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
Stephen Robertson wrote:
>>> Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
>>> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327
>>>
>
> I'm maybe just being slow but I'm not quite sure I'm understanding
> this. Also my setup(2 x Nova-T cards using OTA data) is quite simple
> so maybe that makes it less clear to me.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> "Source" is the channel listing, in my case the EIT data.
> "Input" is the physical tuner card?

Let me trot out my new favorite ASCII graphic from
http://www.mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-12.html#ss12.6

|
| coax +--------------+ firewire ------------------+
| .-=|Cable Provider|=------------=| Card 1 input 1 | HDTV
| | |HD/Cable STB |=--. +-----||||||||||||
| | +--------------+ | s-video ------------------+
| | `---------=| input 2 | Digital
|wall | coax | Card 2 |
|=---=^=------------------------------=| input 3 | Cable
| +-----||||||||||||

When you ran mythtv-setup, you set "Video sources" for the
service provider(s) that each have a set of channels that you
can receive at an input. In "Input connections", you told your
system which of these 'video source' sets of channels you can
receive on which inputs of which cards.

If I chose "Watch TV" from mythfrontend, it would hijack ;-)
an input that is not currently in use but, most likely, the
scheduler has already planned to eventually use =).

Assuming none of these inputs are currently recording, it would
choose Card 1 which only has one input. Therefore, I would see
the current channel for input 1 from my "HDTV" source which may
be The Discovery Channel's DSCHD. I could use the up and down
keys or type channel numbers for other HD channels over firewire
and again use this input.

Note: a video source is the set of channels you could receive
at an input. These channels may have listings, however, I could
connect a VCR to the composite input of card 2. I would create
a "VCR" source and a channel 4 with callsign "VCR" using the
Channel Editor. Tuning to "4" would show the VCR's output. The
"VCR" source is the set of channels that I can receive at my
card 2 composite input (or some other input if I plugged this
VCR in elsewhere or plugged in another VCR on another card) and
there are no TV listings or grabbers associated with this source
or the channel(s) for this source.

>> From the above link:
> * "Y" is now mapped to "NEXTSOURCE"
> * "C" is mapped to "NEXTINPUT" which replaces "TOGGLEINPUTS"

If I pressed why?xxxx "Y", I would switch to another input
associated with the next video source. In this case from HDTV(1)
to Digital(2). Input 2 may have also been tuned to The Discovery
Channel because I like MythBusters, however, this source has
the Pacific timezone NTSC version for digital cable DSCP. Up,
down and number could change to other digital cable channels.

If I were to keep pressing "Y", it would switch between video
sources Cable->HDTV->Digital->Cable->HDTV... However I'll press
"C" instead to switch between inputs on the card. For card 1,
this would do nothing but I'm on the s-video input of card 2.
"C" switches to the next input on this card which is input 3
from "Cable". DSCP again? But this time with subtle patterns
of RF interference. Tapping "C" shows coax->s-video->coax...
Or assuming I'd configured a VCR for the composite input,
coax->composite->s-video->coax->composite...

-- bjm

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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
On 03/13/2008 05:58 PM, Bruce Markey wrote:
> Stephen Robertson wrote:
>
>>>> Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
>>>> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327
>> I'm maybe just being slow but I'm not quite sure I'm understanding
>> this. Also my setup(2 x Nova-T cards using OTA data) is quite simple
>> so maybe that makes it less clear to me.
>>
>> Is this correct?
>>
>> "Source" is the channel listing, in my case the EIT data.
>> "Input" is the physical tuner card?
<removed lots of good explanation>
>>> From the above link:
>>>
>> * "Y" is now mapped to "NEXTSOURCE"
>> * "C" is mapped to "NEXTINPUT" which replaces "TOGGLEINPUTS"
>>
> If I pressed why?xxxx "Y", I would switch to another input
> associated with the next video source. In this case from HDTV(1)
> to Digital(2). Input 2 may have also been tuned to The Discovery
> Channel because I like MythBusters, however, this source has
> the Pacific timezone NTSC version for digital cable DSCP. Up,
> down and number could change to other digital cable channels.
>
> If I were to keep pressing "Y", it would switch between video
> sources Cable->HDTV->Digital->Cable->HDTV... However I'll press
> "C" instead to switch between inputs on the card. For card 1,
> this would do nothing but I'm on the s-video input of card 2.
> "C" switches to the next input on this card which is input 3
> from "Cable". DSCP again? But this time with subtle patterns
> of RF interference. Tapping "C" shows coax->s-video->coax...
> Or assuming I'd configured a VCR for the composite input,
> coax->composite->s-video->coax->composite...

And, if--like me--you have one source (I have OTA), multiple cards (I
have 4), and only one input used on each, you'll need to map a key to
the new NEXTCARD binding to allow you to switch from one card to another
(since you don't have multiple inputs in use on any card and you don't
have additional sources).

Mike
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Re: LiveTV limited number of channels [ In reply to ]
Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 03/13/2008 05:58 PM, Bruce Markey wrote:
>> Stephen Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>>> Note that Y and C behavior have changed:
>>>>> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/279327#279327
>>> I'm maybe just being slow but I'm not quite sure I'm understanding
>>> this. Also my setup(2 x Nova-T cards using OTA data) is quite simple
>>> so maybe that makes it less clear to me.
>>>
>>> Is this correct?
>>>
>>> "Source" is the channel listing, in my case the EIT data.
>>> "Input" is the physical tuner card?
> <removed lots of good explanation>
>>>> From the above link:
>>>>
>>> * "Y" is now mapped to "NEXTSOURCE"
>>> * "C" is mapped to "NEXTINPUT" which replaces "TOGGLEINPUTS"
>>>
>> If I pressed why?xxxx "Y", I would switch to another input
>> associated with the next video source. In this case from HDTV(1)
>> to Digital(2). Input 2 may have also been tuned to The Discovery
>> Channel because I like MythBusters, however, this source has
>> the Pacific timezone NTSC version for digital cable DSCP. Up,
>> down and number could change to other digital cable channels.
>>
>> If I were to keep pressing "Y", it would switch between video
>> sources Cable->HDTV->Digital->Cable->HDTV... However I'll press
>> "C" instead to switch between inputs on the card. For card 1,
>> this would do nothing but I'm on the s-video input of card 2.
>> "C" switches to the next input on this card which is input 3
>> from "Cable". DSCP again? But this time with subtle patterns
>> of RF interference. Tapping "C" shows coax->s-video->coax...
>> Or assuming I'd configured a VCR for the composite input,
>> coax->composite->s-video->coax->composite...
>
> And, if--like me--you have one source (I have OTA), multiple cards (I
> have 4), and only one input used on each, you'll need to map a key to
> the new NEXTCARD binding to allow you to switch from one card to another
> (since you don't have multiple inputs in use on any card and you don't
> have additional sources).

And if you have 9 inputs on seven cards from 3 sources and 2 two
cards with more than one input from different sources and 3 input
groups for cable boxes near 3 backend hosts, you may want to bind
NEXTCARD to "Y" and "NEXTSOURCE" to Ctl-Y like me =).

One thought I've had is to enter a number much like a channel
number so that "5 Y" switches to card 5. Currently I have to
go through a series of Y's and C's to get to a specific input.

-- bjm

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