Mailing List Archive

On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Robert McNamara wrote:

> For those who can't wait for any little bit of info, here's a frame
> dump from a HD PVR capture @ 1920x1080 and 9 Mbit-ish.
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/00000001.jpg
>
> I think it looks excellent. I dumped this frame from the transport
> stream myself, so I can vouch for it being genuine. The container is
> slightly non-standard and samples have been provided to the ffmpeg
> project-- I think the future for the Hauppauge HD PVR looks bright
> indeed.

Sold!

Curious as to what your video source was.
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In fairness, I didn't do the capture but will vouch that it came
straight from Hauppauge. In fairness to all parties, and out of a
desire to not throw anyone under the bus, I'll say no more than that.
I know it came from PBS, but can't tell you much more than that. I
have little (if any) more information on the device itself beyond what
is already being thrown about. I know that was a 9 Mbit CBR stream at
1080i, and that the device will do up to 25 Mbit. Those files would
be HUGE, however! From my own perspective, this bitrate would be more
than adequate. The .ts it came from is a bit problematic for now, but
a little hammering from the ffmpeg folks should fix that. You can't
play it currently but you *can* dump a few frames with recent mplayer
SVN, and ffmpeg -i filename *does* inspect the transport properly. So
that's an awful good start.

Robert
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Ah, just for clarity: I didn't capture the TS, but I *did* get the TS
from someone with access to the device and dump the frame I posted.
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On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Robert McNamara wrote:

> In fairness, I didn't do the capture but will vouch that it came
> straight from Hauppauge. In fairness to all parties, and out of a
> desire to not throw anyone under the bus, I'll say no more than that.
> I know it came from PBS, but can't tell you much more than that. I
> have little (if any) more information on the device itself beyond what
> is already being thrown about. I know that was a 9 Mbit CBR stream at
> 1080i, and that the device will do up to 25 Mbit. Those files would
> be HUGE, however! From my own perspective, this bitrate would be more
> than adequate. The .ts it came from is a bit problematic for now, but
> a little hammering from the ffmpeg folks should fix that. You can't
> play it currently but you *can* dump a few frames with recent mplayer
> SVN, and ffmpeg -i filename *does* inspect the transport properly. So
> that's an awful good start.

Certainly VERY encouraging. It will make a nice Christmas present to
myself. That should be enough time to let everyone else deal with the
headaches of making it all work nicely in Myth. ;)

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Does anyone else feel like they are unprepared for class? Am I the only one
that desires a LITTLE more context here?

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:47 PM, Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
wrote:

> In fairness, I didn't do the capture but will vouch that it came
> straight from Hauppauge. In fairness to all parties, and out of a
> desire to not throw anyone under the bus, I'll say no more than that.
> I know it came from PBS, but can't tell you much more than that. I
> have little (if any) more information on the device itself beyond what
> is already being thrown about. I know that was a 9 Mbit CBR stream at
> 1080i, and that the device will do up to 25 Mbit. Those files would
> be HUGE, however! From my own perspective, this bitrate would be more
> than adequate. The .ts it came from is a bit problematic for now, but
> a little hammering from the ffmpeg folks should fix that. You can't
> play it currently but you *can* dump a few frames with recent mplayer
> SVN, and ffmpeg -i filename *does* inspect the transport properly. So
> that's an awful good start.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

...and that was the second time I got crabs.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ah, just for clarity: I didn't capture the TS, but I *did* get the TS
> from someone with access to the device and dump the frame I posted.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of voting,
magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've got.
There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who are active
in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time when
information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the one who
name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.

The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box. I know
that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which is the
seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from that same
sample because I believed people here might have an interest in looking at
the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was gracious
enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than his
position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will as
well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe the
veracity of this info.

Robert

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:

> ...and that was the second time I got crabs.
>
>
If it wasn't for my horse I wouldn't have spent that extra year in college.

I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some contacts at
Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what, where,
when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I know
about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of output] from
[description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able to [do
whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV community"

Most written works that begin with the words "In fairness..." are hundreds
of pages long and eventually fill you in on what it all means. From what
you wrote, it made me feel like I walked into the middle of one of my
Engineering classes from college.

Basically, it looks like you were answering a question or continuing a
thread without describing the question.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of voting,
> magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've got.
> There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who are active
> in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time when
> information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the one who
> name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.
>
> The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box. I know
> that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which is the
> seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from that same
> sample because I believed people here might have an interest in looking at
> the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was gracious
> enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than his
> position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will as
> well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe the
> veracity of this info.
>
> Robert
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> In fairness, I didn't do the capture but will vouch that it came
> straight from Hauppauge. In fairness to all parties, and out of a
> desire to not throw anyone under the bus, I'll say no more than that.
> I know it came from PBS, but can't tell you much more than that.

That's from the American Master's program: Pete Seeger: The Power of Song
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In light of what you've written, I think there's a possibility you
didn't see the first post in this thread where I wrote:

For those who can't wait for any little bit of info, here's a frame
dump from a HD PVR capture @ 1920x1080 and 9 Mbit-ish.

http://www.fecitfacta.com/00000001.jpg

I think it looks excellent. I dumped this frame from the transport
stream myself, so I can vouch for it being genuine. The container is
slightly non-standard and samples have been provided to the ffmpeg
project-- I think the future for the Hauppauge HD PVR looks bright
indeed.

Now, compare to your template:

I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some contacts at
Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what, where,
when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I know
about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of output] from
[description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able to [do
whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV community"

I would say I gave fairly decent context, wouldn't you? In any case,
I'm not certain what relevance the critique of my writing style has to
the thread itself, the purpose of which was to share what little info
I had recently gleaned with those who might be interested.

Robert
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On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some contacts at
> Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what, where,
> when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I know
> about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of output] from
> [description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able to [do
> whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV community"
>
> Most written works that begin with the words "In fairness..." are hundreds
> of pages long and eventually fill you in on what it all means. From what
> you wrote, it made me feel like I walked into the middle of one of my
> Engineering classes from college.
>
> Basically, it looks like you were answering a question or continuing a
> thread without describing the question.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of voting,
> magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've got.
> There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who are active
> in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time when
> information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the one who
> name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.
> >
> > The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box. I know
> that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which is the
> seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from that same
> sample because I believed people here might have an interest in looking at
> the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was gracious
> enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than his
> position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will as
> well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe the
> veracity of this info.
> >

Looks like you missed the original email.

Please don't top-post.
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Yup, I guess I didn't see the original. Since you weren't starting your
piece of info with "In fairness..." my critique was itself out of context;
it seems you did a fine piece of writing. Plenty of context and all. Sorry
for my critique. I'm glad we're now on the same page.

/I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start typing where
it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem for the "don't
top-post" people.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Phil Bridges <gravityhammer@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some contacts
> at
> > Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what,
> where,
> > when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I know
> > about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of output]
> from
> > [description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able to
> [do
> > whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV
> community"
> >
> > Most written works that begin with the words "In fairness..." are
> hundreds
> > of pages long and eventually fill you in on what it all means. From
> what
> > you wrote, it made me feel like I walked into the middle of one of my
> > Engineering classes from college.
> >
> > Basically, it looks like you were answering a question or continuing a
> > thread without describing the question.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Robert McNamara <
> robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of
> voting,
> > magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've got.
> > There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who are
> active
> > in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time when
> > information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the one
> who
> > name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.
> > >
> > > The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box. I
> know
> > that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which is
> the
> > seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from that
> same
> > sample because I believed people here might have an interest in looking
> at
> > the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was
> gracious
> > enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than his
> > position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will as
> > well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe the
> > veracity of this info.
> > >
>
> Looks like you missed the original email.
>
> Please don't top-post.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

On Feb 28, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Josh White wrote:

> /I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start
> typing where it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem
> for the "don't top-post" people.

It's a "don't top-post" list, so please take the time to move your
cursor before typing. Looking up information later on in a list where
people top-post all the time is extremely annoying and results in
people giving up on archives entirely which in turn results in lots of
repeat questions to the list. Also, bottom-posters tend to trim
replies (since they have to san the whole email for an extra second
anyway) which helps everyone!

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On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yup, I guess I didn't see the original. Since you weren't starting your
> piece of info with "In fairness..." my critique was itself out of context;
> it seems you did a fine piece of writing. Plenty of context and all. Sorry
> for my critique. I'm glad we're now on the same page.
>
> /I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start typing where
> it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem for the "don't
> top-post" people.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Phil Bridges <gravityhammer@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some contacts
> at
> > > Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what,
> where,
> > > when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I know
> > > about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of output]
> from
> > > [description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able to
> [do
> > > whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV
> community"
> > >
> > > Most written works that begin with the words "In fairness..." are
> hundreds
> > > of pages long and eventually fill you in on what it all means. From
> what
> > > you wrote, it made me feel like I walked into the middle of one of my
> > > Engineering classes from college.
> > >
> > > Basically, it looks like you were answering a question or continuing a
> > > thread without describing the question.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Robert McNamara
> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of
> voting,
> > > magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've got.
> > > There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who are
> active
> > > in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time when
> > > information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the one
> who
> > > name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.
> > > >
> > > > The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box. I
> know
> > > that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which is
> the
> > > seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from that
> same
> > > sample because I believed people here might have an interest in looking
> at
> > > the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was
> gracious
> > > enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than his
> > > position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will as
> > > well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe the
> > > veracity of this info.
> > > >
> >
> > Looks like you missed the original email.
> >
> > Please don't top-post.
> >

A lot of people use Gmail here without top-posting. Sometimes Gmail
puts my cursor in the middle of the message I'm replying to - does
that mean I should just start typing right there? It's not that hard
to hit "End" on my keyboard, and it makes it a whole lot easier to
read the thread in context.
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On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Brad DerManouelian <myth@dermanouelian.com>
wrote:

> On Feb 28, 2008, at 12:48 PM, Josh White wrote:
>
> > /I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start
> > typing where it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem
> > for the "don't top-post" people.
>
> It's a "don't top-post" list, so please take the time to move your
> cursor before typing. Looking up information later on in a list where
> people top-post all the time is extremely annoying and results in
> people giving up on archives entirely which in turn results in lots of
> repeat questions to the list. Also, bottom-posters tend to trim
> replies (since they have to san the whole email for an extra second
> anyway) which helps everyone!
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Fair enough, but it's hard to solve a problem that isn't apparent to the one
causing it. In Gmail, the "quoted text" is generally hidden, and all you
have is what's new from the new post. The previous post is shown above,
since it's the last message, so regardless of whether someone top posts or
not, it looks fine to me. To be honest, this is the first time I realized
that I was one of the dreaded top posters. Sorry, all.

>
> Yup, I guess I didn't see the original. Since you weren't starting your
> piece of info with "In fairness..." my critique was itself out of context;
> it seems you did a fine piece of writing. Plenty of context and all. Sorry
> for my critique. I'm glad we're now on the same page.
>
> /I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start typing where
> it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem for the "don't
> top-post" people.
>
>
Completely understood. I can see why it would seem way out there without
having seen the original, and it probably would have helped had I quoted
myself in my clarification. For now, let's enjoy the pretties!

PS,

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4JN6XWCD
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZS7QF541

Don't expect to be able to play them, but there's info to be had, for sure.
:)

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Phil Bridges <gravityhammer@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yup, I guess I didn't see the original. Since you weren't starting your
> > piece of info with "In fairness..." my critique was itself out of
> context;
> > it seems you did a fine piece of writing. Plenty of context and all.
> Sorry
> > for my critique. I'm glad we're now on the same page.
> >
> > /I use Gmail, and I hit "reply" to these messages and I start typing
> where
> > it puts the cursor. I apologize if that's a problem for the "don't
> > top-post" people.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Phil Bridges <gravityhammer@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:26 PM, Josh White <jaw1959@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I was just thinking something like "A friend of mine with some
> contacts
> > at
> > > > Hauppauge hooked me up. I can't get into the details of who, what,
> > where,
> > > > when or how, but here's what I've learned: He had access to [what I
> know
> > > > about the hardware] and used it to to produce [description of
> output]
> > from
> > > > [description of source]. I got a copy of this output and I was able
> to
> > [do
> > > > whatever] with it. This is very encouraging news to the MythTV
> > community"
> > > >
> > > > Most written works that begin with the words "In fairness..." are
> > hundreds
> > > > of pages long and eventually fill you in on what it all means. From
> > what
> > > > you wrote, it made me feel like I walked into the middle of one of
> my
> > > > Engineering classes from college.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, it looks like you were answering a question or continuing
> a
> > > > thread without describing the question.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 3:05 PM, Robert McNamara
> > <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not certain what context I can provide to you-- No amount of
> > voting,
> > > > magicking, or cajoling will put more information into me than I've
> got.
> > > > There are any number of people who have access the the HD PVR who
> are
> > active
> > > > in the Linux community. Being in the right place at the right time
> when
> > > > information like this is shared helps a lot. I don't want to be the
> one
> > who
> > > > name drops or causes anyone harm by sharing that information.
> > > > >
> > > > > The source of this TS most certainly does have access to the box.
> I
> > know
> > > > that the sample I received has also been submitted to ffmpeg, which
> is
> > the
> > > > seed of support for the device in Myth. I dumped the frame from
> that
> > same
> > > > sample because I believed people here might have an interest in
> looking
> > at
> > > > the quality we can expect. The person who produced the sample was
> > gracious
> > > > enough to answer a few questions, but could disclose any more than
> his
> > > > position allows him to. I tried to respect that and I hope you will
> as
> > > > well. It's entirely up to the individual to believe or not believe
> the
> > > > veracity of this info.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Looks like you missed the original email.
> > >
> > > Please don't top-post.
> > >
>
> A lot of people use Gmail here without top-posting. Sometimes Gmail
> puts my cursor in the middle of the message I'm replying to - does
> that mean I should just start typing right there? It's not that hard
> to hit "End" on my keyboard, and it makes it a whole lot easier to
> read the thread in context.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I said I was sorry, didn't I?

Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> says:
> For those who can't wait for any little bit of info, here's a frame
> dump from a HD PVR capture @ 1920x1080 and 9 Mbit-ish.
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/00000001.jpg
>
> I think it looks excellent.

Agreed. A 9Mbps PBS 1080i stream (4GB/hour) is surely simpler to
process than a 19.2Mbps 1080i stream (7.5-8GB/hour), however. Despite
the stated 25Mbps limit of the hardware encoder, I certainly look
forward to future examples at higher bitrates.

That said, the news of the device's presence in the hands of ffmpeg
developers and others certainly gives me hope that we'll see viable
Linux (and, heck, maybe even MythTV) support from day one of
availability. I'd be interested, despite having open FireWire ports,
for the following reasons:

* Smaller filesizes.[1]
* No need to deal with the somewhat-problematic Linux FireWire stack.
* No longer vulnerable to cable companies' decisions on FireWire
access.

I remain unsure of which way to go regarding a 1080i h.264-capable
frontend, as no one yet (to my knowledge) has yet answered the
question in the last paragraph of
<URL:http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/317259#317259>
in the context of the internal player.

[1] I hope someone is already mulling over a script that will automate
the process of playing MPEG-2 recordings over component, capturing
them via the Hauppauge device, and replacing the old with the new,
smaller, MPEG-4 version. Heck, could the device perhaps generate the
h.264 files directly from the recording files themselves? A sort of
hardware transcode engine?

--
Frontend: P4 3.0GHz, 1.5TB software RAID 5 array
Backend: Quad-core Xeon 1.6GHz, 6.6TB sw RAID 6
Video inputs: Four high-definition over FireWire/OTA
Accessories: 47" 1080p LCD, 5.1 digital, and MX-600
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On 02/28/2008 04:18 PM, Yeechang Lee wrote:
> Robert McNamara <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> says:
>
>> For those who can't wait for any little bit of info, here's a frame
>> dump from a HD PVR capture @ 1920x1080 and 9 Mbit-ish.
>>
>> http://www.fecitfacta.com/00000001.jpg
>>
>> I think it looks excellent.
>>
> Agreed. A 9Mbps PBS 1080i stream (4GB/hour) is surely simpler to
> process than a 19.2Mbps 1080i stream (7.5-8GB/hour), however. Despite
> the stated 25Mbps limit of the hardware encoder, I certainly look
> forward to future examples at higher bitrates.

I look forward to the day when more broadcasters actually use higher
bitrates... Here, only CW and NBC use such a high bitrate.

Mike
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On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Chad wrote:

>
>
> A better example is Nvidia. How many of us are IT professionals in
> organizations that support 1000+ workstations/desktops? I would
> assume a good portion of us are, and when it comes to making a
> decision on which video card to put into those systems, I know that
> several times we have had ATI as a default option and instead opted
> for Nvidia simply because of our experience of using the cards on
> Linux. The workstations will likely never run Linux (at least the
> majority of them inside the labs) and yet the influence Nvidia has
> because of their ability to provide us with what we need in the Linux
> world just gained them an additional 1000 sales, by providing Linux
> drivers to 1 or 2 IT people.

Maybe, maybe not. I certainly would not suggest putting nVidia cards
into office type workstations that needed only "business class"
graphics, or servers being managed by serial ports. That would simply
not make economic sense.

OTOH I'm sure that nVidia and other companies have made sales that are
only indirectly related to their having supported the Linux community.

What I would like to see is some way of making sure that manufacturers
know when a sale has resulted from their support of Linux. For example
I want Hauppauge to know I purchased their product because it is
supported in Linux, and that their assistance to the IVTV people
resulted in additional sales.

I suppose it could backfire though. It might simply tell them that the
Linux market is not large enough to be worth their efforts.

But I think manufacturers and vendors are aware of the fact that a
disproportionate number of "decision makers" are Linux users, or are
at least aware of what Linux and the OSS movement are.

beww


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Does any one know does the HD PVR mux in the digital audio via coax or
optical? It would really suck to have great video but have to use analog
stereo audio.

Thanks,
Mitchell

>
> On Feb 28, 2008, at 9:29 PM, Chad wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A better example is Nvidia. How many of us are IT professionals in
>> organizations that support 1000+ workstations/desktops? I would
>> assume a good portion of us are, and when it comes to making a
>> decision on which video card to put into those systems, I know that
>> several times we have had ATI as a default option and instead opted
>> for Nvidia simply because of our experience of using the cards on
>> Linux. The workstations will likely never run Linux (at least the
>> majority of them inside the labs) and yet the influence Nvidia has
>> because of their ability to provide us with what we need in the Linux
>> world just gained them an additional 1000 sales, by providing Linux
>> drivers to 1 or 2 IT people.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. I certainly would not suggest putting nVidia cards
> into office type workstations that needed only "business class"
> graphics, or servers being managed by serial ports. That would simply
> not make economic sense.

Why not. There are plenty of dirtcheap systems that come with nvidia
video. Infact, my current desktop/webserver fits into that category.
Such systems are plenty cost competitive with other vendors that have
bad Linux reputations.

This isn't so much about clearly favoring one vendor over the other
without all else being equal. It's about what you choose when multiple
products are in a dead heat.

Of course you are going to go with the product that has a better
reputation across the board. Negative PR is still negative PR. A
lot of people might not even themselves pick up on the linux-centric
bias.

>
> OTOH I'm sure that nVidia and other companies have made sales that are
> only indirectly related to their having supported the Linux community.
>
> What I would like to see is some way of making sure that manufacturers
> know when a sale has resulted from their support of Linux. For example
> I want Hauppauge to know I purchased their product because it is
> supported in Linux, and that their assistance to the IVTV people
> resulted in additional sales.

Email their marketing people. Tell them what products you've
used in the past. Gush where appropriate. Tell them you intend to
buy more Linux supported products in the future.

>
> I suppose it could backfire though. It might simply tell them that the
> Linux market is not large enough to be worth their efforts.
>
> But I think manufacturers and vendors are aware of the fact that a
> disproportionate number of "decision makers" are Linux users, or are
> at least aware of what Linux and the OSS movement are.


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On Feb 29, 2008, at 8:48 AM, Jacob Steenhagen wrote:

>
> Yeah. We on this list are still using e-mail. We haven't switched to
> Google's new "standard" that tries to change the way e-mail
> works... ;)
>
> Speak for yourself, I switched to the Google standard a few months
> back. It was easier than continuing to support an email server
> running on a DSL connection :).
>

I looked into moving to Google to avoid the hassle of running a mail
server. While looking at my Google mail Sprintlink (my ISP's
connection to the world) went down.

No problem, I thought. I have a copy going to a backup site.
Unfortunately that was Apple's mail server, also on the west coast,
and also unreachable.

Some things should not be remoted to a thousand miles away.

(More trivia: Sprint's name reflects its origin as the Southern
Pacific Railroad's internal communications network, hence SPRINT)

beww

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