Mailing List Archive

What's the point of MythTV HD?
All,
I am a longtime MythTV user who is looking to upgrade to HD. I've
got Comcast currently (Analog SD) but will most likely be switching to
Verizon FIOS due to the expanded channel lineup and faster internet
speeds. We get plenty of analog channels over cable now (we get TNT,
Disc, etc., but not HBO and the like), but we want to indulge a little
bit and get a nice fat HDTV with the same service.

The more I research this change, the more disheartened I become at the
prospects of using MythTV. I have scanned through the archives here
trying to come up with how a new setup would work; STB's and firewire
and IR blasters and all of that, but I start to get the sense that
MythTV no longer suits the needs of a "true" HD watcher. That is,
someone who is seeking HD beyond of the realm of the OTA broadcast
channels such as NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX.

I realize this is not at all the fault of MythTV. In the US, we are
victims of irrational controls from lobbying and from lack of
action/intelligence from the FCC. And this still seems somewhat fluid
-- rules are still being defined and reviewed -- but none of it really
looks in favor of the consumer. Yes, I could try firewire from the
STB but sometimes it is not enabled, and sometimes it is encrypted and
sometimes it works for only certain channels. Yes, I could get an
antenna for OTA, but I am *willing to pay* for premium content to get
the most out of our HDTV.

So I am left with the following question: If I convert to HD (again,
beyond the broadcast stations), where exactly does MythTV fit in my
home media setup? I enjoy the upgradability, flexibility and
open-source attitude of this project. I enjoy being able to watch the
content I pay for without fear of being monitored/controlled/mined,
how and when I choose. But when I have to switch back-and-forth
between MythTV and the STB, depending on the channel I choose and
whether or not it is "premium" or "non-premium" - well, that seems to
me to be just plain ridiculous.

Let me just confirm the following both for my own knowledge and for
list posterity:

Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
It seems to be to be either:

1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.

Someone please, please tell me that I am wrong or that there is a
smart third option. I would love to continue using Myth.
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 2, 2007 7:36 PM, Benjamin Carlisle <ben.carlisle@gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
> I am a longtime MythTV user who is looking to upgrade to HD. I've
> got Comcast currently (Analog SD) but will most likely be switching to
> Verizon FIOS due to the expanded channel lineup and faster internet
> speeds. We get plenty of analog channels over cable now (we get TNT,
> Disc, etc., but not HBO and the like), but we want to indulge a little
> bit and get a nice fat HDTV with the same service.
>
> The more I research this change, the more disheartened I become at the
> prospects of using MythTV. I have scanned through the archives here
> trying to come up with how a new setup would work; STB's and firewire
> and IR blasters and all of that, but I start to get the sense that
> MythTV no longer suits the needs of a "true" HD watcher. That is,
> someone who is seeking HD beyond of the realm of the OTA broadcast
> channels such as NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX.
>
> I realize this is not at all the fault of MythTV. In the US, we are
> victims of irrational controls from lobbying and from lack of
> action/intelligence from the FCC. And this still seems somewhat fluid
> -- rules are still being defined and reviewed -- but none of it really
> looks in favor of the consumer. Yes, I could try firewire from the
> STB but sometimes it is not enabled, and sometimes it is encrypted and
> sometimes it works for only certain channels. Yes, I could get an
> antenna for OTA, but I am *willing to pay* for premium content to get
> the most out of our HDTV.
>
> So I am left with the following question: If I convert to HD (again,
> beyond the broadcast stations), where exactly does MythTV fit in my
> home media setup? I enjoy the upgradability, flexibility and
> open-source attitude of this project. I enjoy being able to watch the
> content I pay for without fear of being monitored/controlled/mined,
> how and when I choose. But when I have to switch back-and-forth
> between MythTV and the STB, depending on the channel I choose and
> whether or not it is "premium" or "non-premium" - well, that seems to
> me to be just plain ridiculous.
>
> Let me just confirm the following both for my own knowledge and for
> list posterity:
>
> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
> MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
> It seems to be to be either:
>
> 1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
> 2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.
>
> Someone please, please tell me that I am wrong or that there is a
> smart third option. I would love to continue using Myth.


There isn't. Myth is limited to what content you can provide it. You can
only provide the content you are allowed to provide by your cable company.
If they provide unencrypted HD via firewire to you, great, you're golden.
If not, you're out of luck. It really has very little to do with Myth. You
can continue to use Myth to record via s-video or other non-tuner input from
the cable box and get HD programs encoded to MPEG-4, but that may or may not
be acceptable to you. Otherwise, use your HD DVR from the cable company
because, after all, it is only TV.

Kevin
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 20:36:18 -0500, "Benjamin Carlisle"
<ben.carlisle@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)?

No.

There are boxes that will let you record some channels off satellite, but
they are both of questionable legality, and very expensive.

If not, what is the point of MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium
channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?

Really there isn't much of a point in this case, except to have one machine
be the entire entertainment center. I'm still using MythTV because my
cable company doesn't offer digital TV. I receive my digital/HD via OTA,
and MythTV works great for that. My friends who have Comcast digital cable
tell me (and I've observed) that their HD is compressed very badly,
sometimes leading to massive glitches in the signal that are unwatchable.
(Think noticeable MPEG-2 artifacts every two minutes during a baseball
game.)

I see it as something that will be on a user-by-user/case by case basis.
Windows MCE (both XP and Vista) are still unable to do OTA properly
(subchannels don't work correctly) and I believe still can't do QAM without
a hack. Their CableCard solution apparently isn't too hot either,
according to some reviews I've read.

Right now, it seems that the future is moving away from PCs recording a
signal to DRM-infested boxes filled with advertisements.

-- Joe


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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 2, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Benjamin Carlisle wrote:

> All,
> I am a longtime MythTV user who is looking to upgrade to HD. I've
> got Comcast currently (Analog SD) but will most likely be switching to
> Verizon FIOS due to the expanded channel lineup and faster internet
> speeds. We get plenty of analog channels over cable now (we get TNT,
> Disc, etc., but not HBO and the like), but we want to indulge a little
> bit and get a nice fat HDTV with the same service.
>
> The more I research this change, the more disheartened I become at the
> prospects of using MythTV. I have scanned through the archives here
> trying to come up with how a new setup would work; STB's and firewire
> and IR blasters and all of that, but I start to get the sense that
> MythTV no longer suits the needs of a "true" HD watcher. That is,
> someone who is seeking HD beyond of the realm of the OTA broadcast
> channels such as NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX.

I consider myself a "true" HD watcher and only watch all the OTA HD
programming.

> I realize this is not at all the fault of MythTV. In the US, we are
> victims of irrational controls from lobbying and from lack of
> action/intelligence from the FCC. And this still seems somewhat fluid
> -- rules are still being defined and reviewed -- but none of it really
> looks in favor of the consumer. Yes, I could try firewire from the
> STB but sometimes it is not enabled, and sometimes it is encrypted and
> sometimes it works for only certain channels. Yes, I could get an
> antenna for OTA, but I am *willing to pay* for premium content to get
> the most out of our HDTV.
>
> So I am left with the following question: If I convert to HD (again,
> beyond the broadcast stations), where exactly does MythTV fit in my
> home media setup? I enjoy the upgradability, flexibility and
> open-source attitude of this project. I enjoy being able to watch the
> content I pay for without fear of being monitored/controlled/mined,
> how and when I choose. But when I have to switch back-and-forth
> between MythTV and the STB, depending on the channel I choose and
> whether or not it is "premium" or "non-premium" - well, that seems to
> me to be just plain ridiculous.

I think you already answered your question, but are somehow hoping
you're wrong?

> Let me just confirm the following both for my own knowledge and for
> list posterity:
>
> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
> MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
> It seems to be to be either:

Depends. See your above statement about "sometimes it is encrypted and
sometimes it works for only certain channels".

> 1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
> 2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.

3) Settle for S-Video output from your STB for premium channels to an
analog capture card. It may surprise you as to how good down-sampled
HD content over s-video looks. Close to DVD quality I would say.

Option 2 will absolutely drive you insane. Everyone I know with an HD
DVR from their cable or satellite company CONSTANTLY complains about
how bad it is. SUPER slow to change channels, misses programs
randomly, very little storage so you have to watch stuff within a
couple of days before it gets deleted. Plus the fact that all the
other non-TV related stuff Myth gives you is gone.

> Someone please, please tell me that I am wrong or that there is a
> smart third option. I would love to continue using Myth.

If you have a smaller independent cable company in your area (i.e. Not
Time Warner or Comcast), they may not encrypt your firewire channels
at all. Astound does not. They may even be willing to work with you on
it. Hooray for smaller companies and their willingness to work to save
customers.

-Brad

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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
Dude...

The only reason I have a myth box (and decommissioned 3 replayTvs) is HD. I
use a SiliconDust HD Homerun, which grabs the free-to-air QAM channels
which comcast provides (all the OTA channels in HD with the cheapest analog
package $13). I have 1.5 TB of storage space all dedicated to recording the
network shows the way they were meant to be archived AND watched.

I have never been happier since I made the switch.

Dave
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
Benjamin Carlisle wrote:

[deleted]

> So I am left with the following question: If I convert to HD (again,
> beyond the broadcast stations), where exactly does MythTV fit in my
> home media setup? I enjoy the upgradability, flexibility and
> open-source attitude of this project. I enjoy being able to watch the
> content I pay for without fear of being monitored/controlled/mined,
> how and when I choose. But when I have to switch back-and-forth
> between MythTV and the STB, depending on the channel I choose and
> whether or not it is "premium" or "non-premium" - well, that seems to
> me to be just plain ridiculous.

I agree - that would be ridiculous. I would guess most people just
watch the STB for live tv, and use MythTV to watch scheduled recordings.

Based on the fact that your asking the question, I'm guessing this is
not how would like to or currently use MythTV.

>
> Let me just confirm the following both for my own knowledge and for
> list posterity:
>
> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
> MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
> It seems to be to be either:
>
> 1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
> 2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.
>
> Someone please, please tell me that I am wrong or that there is a
> smart third option. I would love to continue using Myth.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

As someone else already pointed out, you can get the premium channels
via S-video into MythTV.

I personally value the ability to skip commercials, archive the content
of my choice in the manner of my choice, expand storage with commodity
hardware, perform complex searches for certain shows, use TVWish for
watching tv series in order - I value all that more than the restriction
of recording those HD channels via S-Video. However, I'm not saying
that YOU should also value these abilities more - we're different people
in different situations, expectations, etc.

I think most cable companies charge a small monthly fee for their HD
DVRs without a large, initial upfront lease/purchase fee - you could try
one for a few months to compare to MythTV and see how it goes. You
don't have to get rid of your Myth setup as soon as you get the cable
company's DVR. See which system's drawbacks you're more willing to live
with.
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 2, 2007 5:36 PM, Benjamin Carlisle <ben.carlisle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
> MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
> It seems to be to be either:
>
> 1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
> 2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.

Since you are a long time MythTV user I'll bet you won't be too
happy with option 2. I bought an HDTV about 2 weeks ago and
now have a Comcast dual tuner DVR. It has room for about 20
shows and has very few recording options. It'll do for now to record
the channels I can't record on my Myth box. As more and more
channels are provided though it might become a big problem.

Switching back and forth is a hassle but at least HDTVs
have a large number of inputs and it is just a push of a
button on the remote.

I use my Mythbox for music, video, and photos as well
so I'd want to keep that functionality around in any case.
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 2, 2007 10:03 PM, David Herman <dherman516@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dude...
>
> The only reason I have a myth box (and decommissioned 3 replayTvs) is HD.
> I use a SiliconDust HD Homerun, which grabs the free-to-air QAM channels
> which comcast provides (all the OTA channels in HD with the cheapest analog
> package $13). I have 1.5 TB of storage space all dedicated to recording
> the network shows the way they were meant to be archived AND watched.
>
> I have never been happier since I made the switch.
>
> Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
Dave, I'm considering setting up for grabbing OTA HD with a hdhomerun...
What is the hardware setup you use for your frontend that pushes HD content
to your HDTV?

--
Josh
TwoOneSix@thatclothingco.com
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
> > 1) Use MythTV and NOT get these channels *at all*, OR;
> > 2) Use their DVR and get these channels, but loose the MythTV.
>
> 3) Settle for S-Video output from your STB for premium channels to an
> analog capture card. It may surprise you as to how good down-sampled
> HD content over s-video looks. Close to DVD quality I would say.
>
>
> 4) instead of paying your cable co for a digital STB+ HD "package" +
premium channel "packages" + HD PVR with crippled hardware and software, pay
a small fraction of that to Netflix and get your premium shows & movies that
way. I pay Commucast $14/month (4 networks in HD, plus 5 PBS channels
including PBS HD) and Netflix $20. We'll get sent a whole season of
something on DVDs, load it into Mythvideo, watch it at our leisure, and send
the DVDs back for something else the next day.
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
Steve MacLaren wrote:
>
>
> 4) instead of paying your cable co for a digital STB+ HD "package" +
> premium channel "packages" + HD PVR with crippled hardware and
> software, pay a small fraction of that to Netflix and get your premium
> shows & movies that way. I pay Commucast $14/month (4 networks in HD,
> plus 5 PBS channels including PBS HD) and Netflix $20. We'll get sent
> a whole season of something on DVDs, load it into Mythvideo, watch it
> at our leisure, and send the DVDs back for something else the next day.

We're lucky.... When a local DVD rental place shut down, the public
library bought their collection of DVDs. Now we can go the library and
borrow a DVD....

As for the other stuff, we only get OTA stuff. Between free movies and
free PBS-HD, I've got as much TV as I can watch.

--Yan
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On 12/02/2007 08:36 PM, Benjamin Carlisle wrote:
> The more I research this change, the more disheartened I become at the
> prospects of using MythTV. ... I start to get the sense that
> MythTV no longer suits the needs of a "true" HD watcher. That is,
> someone who is seeking HD beyond of the realm of the OTA broadcast
> channels such as NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX.
>
...
> Can I not legally record these so-called "premium" HD channels using
> MythTV (without significant expense)? If not, what is the point of
> MythTV in a setup where you WANT those premium channels in HD? Why
> not just suck it up and pay these jerks their money for the DVR STBs?
>

After all, when you're dissatisfied with the status quo, the best
possible thing to do is accept it as the only option. That's definitely
the recipe for changing the world and making it a better place... ;)

I'm sure as soon as the cable company processes your subscription
(including HD DVR rental), they'll immediately reconsider their stance
on proprietary formats/DRM-ridden video/"our DVR or none"/... (In other
words, you'll have to decide which is more important to you: expressing
your dissatisfaction with the lack of HDTV options or getting premium
channels in HDTV.)

Mike "false HD watcher" Dean
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Sunday 02 December 2007 19:45:05 Steve MacLaren wrote:
> 4) instead of paying your cable co for a digital STB+ HD "package" +
> premium channel "packages" + HD PVR with crippled hardware and software,
> pay a small fraction of that to Netflix and get your premium shows & movies
> that way. I pay Commucast $14/month (4 networks in HD, plus 5 PBS channels
> including PBS HD) and Netflix $20. We'll get sent a whole season of
> something on DVDs, load it into Mythvideo, watch it at our leisure, and
> send the DVDs back for something else the next day.

or 5) download the tv episode(s) the next day via torrents, which are mostly
recorded in HD anyway. I have several friends who haven't actually had cable
in a couple of years and actually download the TV shows they want to watch
from torrent sites.

-Alan M.
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
<snip>

>
> Dave, I'm considering setting up for grabbing OTA HD with a hdhomerun...
> What is the hardware setup you use for your frontend that pushes HD content
> to your HDTV?
>
> </snip>


Josh --

My frontend/backend is on the same box, a AMD 64 3800+ (1 Gig Ram); Nvidia
Geforce 6600 GT Video Card, 1.5 TB Diskspace (3 500 GB SATA Drives). Ubuntu
Gutsy Gibbon.

I feed SPDIF from my Motherboard to my Receiver and send VGA to the LCD.

I have been running since April with only a few hickups (tied to cooling
and SVN issues).

To be clear, I have had ZERO issues with the HD Homerun. The Silicon Dust
support team is top notch.

If you have QAM avaliable via your cable company, that is more robust than
OTA (at least for me, cuz, I am surrounded by all the local towers and can't
lock a signal for my life -- too much signal can be bad thing)

Dave
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
What's really missing here is a cable card HD tuner that MythTV could
access. A cablecard hdhomerun would be optimal, and since CableLabs has
blessed DTCP-IP it seems that one is possible. This would work a whole
lot better than renting an expensive HD cablebox and manipulating it
with a blaster to get a single channel of flakey firewire output.

Even that would still only get the CCI=0 content, but thats a whole lot
more HD than unencrypted QAM.

Another alternative is buying an HD Tivo, which allows ethernet
transfers of CCI=0 content with TTG. The box price is reasonable, but
the monthly is expensive for treating it as a tuner. (I've also heard
that there is a hardware prom hack that makes the Tivo hackable).



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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 3, 2007 9:35 AM, Ken Mandelberg <km@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
> What's really missing here is a cable card HD tuner that MythTV could
> access. A cablecard hdhomerun would be optimal, and since CableLabs has
> blessed DTCP-IP it seems that one is possible. This would work a whole
> lot better than renting an expensive HD cablebox and manipulating it
> with a blaster to get a single channel of flakey firewire output.
>

I see this mentioned quite a bit and my first thought is usually
"don't hold your breath". If cable card HD tuner that could be
accessed by open source projects were made available, it would
essentially obsolete all the encryption used by cable companies...it's
just not going to happen.

Out of curiosity, I just looked at the CHILA (CableCARD Host Licensing
Agreement):

http://www.opencable.com/downloads/CHILA.pdf

Without looking very hard, I found this on page 26:

"2. Controlled Content Paths. Content shall not be available on
outputs other than those
specified in the Compliance Rules, and, within such Licensed Product,
Controlled Content shall
not be present on any user accessible buses (as defined below) in
non-encrypted, compressed
form."

I'm not a lawyer, nor am I in the mood to wade through pages of
legalese, but I'm willing to bet that the holy grail cable card tuner
that so many would love to have would never comply with that
agreement, and is just about as likely as the cable companies simply
abandoning encryption in the first place.

I'm with Michael Dean...I've been using nothing but OTA since
1989...which now consists of a three-tuner DTV mythtv system, with
virtually everything recorded in HD. The more I hear about everyone's
headaches with cable, encryption etc, the happier I am with it. I
make sure to tell CableVision all about it when they call trying to
sell me pay TV.

Tom
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On 12/3/07, Ken Mandelberg <km@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
>
> What's really missing here is a cable card HD tuner that MythTV could
> access. A cablecard hdhomerun would be optimal, and since CableLabs has
> blessed DTCP-IP it seems that one is possible. This would work a whole
> lot better than renting an expensive HD cablebox and manipulating it
> with a blaster to get a single channel of flakey firewire output.
>
> Even that would still only get the CCI=0 content, but thats a whole lot
> more HD than unencrypted QAM.
>
> Another alternative is buying an HD Tivo, which allows ethernet
> transfers of CCI=0 content with TTG. The box price is reasonable, but
> the monthly is expensive for treating it as a tuner. (I've also heard
> that there is a hardware prom hack that makes the Tivo hackable).


I won't speak of Tivo hacks but I also will say that it is definitely the
"third" option that I would pursue if I cared about those HD channels that
the cable company doesn't send me unencrpyted. I just purchased two of them
for my Mom. Fortunately, I got them both with deals where they were
"lifetime subscriptions" so there is no monthly fee, although the whole
setup wasn't exactly cheap either. I think the lifetime deal was only for
existing customers, but you can do some transfers of old ones through e-bay
to get around that if you are interested.

We have a HD DVR from the cable company, but only because right now it is
effectively "free". I was using it for a period of time before I HD-enabled
Myth and I can tell you it was the most god-awful experience ever. Just a
nightmare, especially after coming from Myth. When we wanted to wean Mom
off VCR's, my brother's first suggestion was a cable company DVR, and I said
no way, had to be Tivo.

Although it's not as good as Myth, IMHO, it is very slick and packaged and
about 50 times better than any cable company DVR, works with the cable cards
that they are required to provide you by law, so you will be able to get the
full complement of HD channels that your cable company offers. You can do
multi-room viewing and interactions between two devices, just can't do
intelligent cross-scheduling.
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
Tom Dexter wrote:
> On Dec 3, 2007 9:35 AM, Ken Mandelberg <km@mathcs.emory.edu> wrote:
>
>> What's really missing here is a cable card HD tuner that MythTV could
>> access. A cablecard hdhomerun would be optimal, and since CableLabs has
>> blessed DTCP-IP it seems that one is possible. This would work a whole
>> lot better than renting an expensive HD cablebox and manipulating it
>> with a blaster to get a single channel of flakey firewire output.
>>
I've been watching these two companies for a while now - and wonder if
anyone has any experience with their products. The first appears to be
an option for "real" HD recording...

http://www.169time.com/

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/r5000/home.htm

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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
> words, you'll have to decide which is more important to you: expressing
> your dissatisfaction with the lack of HDTV options or getting premium
> channels in HDTV.)

Yeap, I guess that what it does come down to. My email was more about
my struggle of determining options than making this decision. As
others have pointed out, I can use downsampled content via SVideo, and
depending on quality that will probalby be the direction of choice for
me.

> Mike "false HD watcher" Dean

PS : Of course, I mean no disrespect to anyone by my "true" comment,
particularly active list participants like yourself. I am sure you
know that.
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
"downsampled content via SVideo"

Doesnt this, by definition change the content to NOT HD? I agree that it
provides a way to watch the channel, but for some, the the HD channel is
also available in analog, thus the problem isnt watching that particular
program. the problem is that we want to record, and watch later, the
program in question.... in HD quality.
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:19 AM, James Gutshall Jr wrote:

> "downsampled content via SVideo"
>
> Doesnt this, by definition change the content to NOT HD? I agree
> that it provides a way to watch the channel, but for some, the the
> HD channel is also available in analog, thus the problem isnt
> watching that particular program. the problem is that we want to
> record, and watch later, the program in question.... in HD quality.

No one complains when I put in a DVD about the "poor quality" because
it's not HD. You'll get about that quality from down-sampled S-Video
that started as HD quality. Saves a ton of disk space, too. I was
thinking about upgrading my DirecTV to HD for this specific scenario.

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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
There is the option (although not quite legal) of hooking a DVB-S card
to Dish Network sats. Not very practical since DN is taking
countermeasures that makes it a little cumbersome to keep the setup
working (changing keys, ECMs with fake keys, etc).

I guess it is ok if you actually pay for their service plugging the
sat to your myth backend instead of their receiver, but IANAL ;-)


On Dec 3, 2007 12:08 PM, Benjamin Carlisle <ben.carlisle@gmail.com> wrote:
> > words, you'll have to decide which is more important to you: expressing
> > your dissatisfaction with the lack of HDTV options or getting premium
> > channels in HDTV.)
>
> Yeap, I guess that what it does come down to. My email was more about
> my struggle of determining options than making this decision. As
> others have pointed out, I can use downsampled content via SVideo, and
> depending on quality that will probalby be the direction of choice for
> me.
>
> > Mike "false HD watcher" Dean
>
> PS : Of course, I mean no disrespect to anyone by my "true" comment,
> particularly active list participants like yourself. I am sure you
> know that.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 3, 2007 2:19 PM, James Gutshall Jr <warchildx@gmail.com> wrote:
> "downsampled content via SVideo"
>
> Doesnt this, by definition change the content to NOT HD? I agree that it
> provides a way to watch the channel, but for some, the the HD channel is
> also available in analog, thus the problem isnt watching that particular
> program. the problem is that we want to record, and watch later, the
> program in question.... in HD quality.
>


Well you have to decide what your intent is. Is your intent to have
excellent picture quality, clear sharp images, and a convenient, easy
to use television recording system for premium content, or are you
completely set on having buzzword compliant 1080p images regardless of
how much better or worse the image looks as an absolute comparison, in
order to psychologically justify the additional cost of going "all
HD"?

At some point you need to decide what your standard is. Absolute
perfection is spiffy and all, but it gets expensive buying those film
strips for the projector you have set up in your in-home stadium
seating auditorium.....

The simple answer is, No, there is no universally available way of
getting uncompressed High Definition premium content into MythTV. You
can very likely, however, get significantly close to HD content into
MythTV without a great deal of difficulty via svideo, and sometimes
perfect images via firewire. You, and you alone, can decide if that's
good enough for you.

One thing is for sure, though. The settop DVRs mostly suck compared
to MythTV overall.

Ry
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On 12/3/07, Brad DerManouelian <myth@dermanouelian.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 3, 2007, at 11:19 AM, James Gutshall Jr wrote:
>
> > "downsampled content via SVideo"
> >
> > Doesnt this, by definition change the content to NOT HD? I agree
> > that it provides a way to watch the channel, but for some, the the
> > HD channel is also available in analog, thus the problem isnt
> > watching that particular program. the problem is that we want to
> > record, and watch later, the program in question.... in HD quality.
>
> No one complains when I put in a DVD about the "poor quality" because
> it's not HD. You'll get about that quality from down-sampled S-Video
> that started as HD quality. Saves a ton of disk space, too. I was
> thinking about upgrading my DirecTV to HD for this specific scenario.
>

Wouldn't you end up with black bars on the top and bottom recording that
way? If so that would kill quite a bit of extra resolution.

David
Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On 12/03/2007 02:28 PM, spectro wrote:
> There is the option (although not quite legal) of hooking a DVB-S card
> to Dish Network sats. Not very practical since DN is taking
> countermeasures that makes it a little cumbersome to keep the setup
> working (changing keys, ECMs with fake keys, etc).
>
> I guess it is ok if you actually pay for their service plugging the
> sat to your myth backend instead of their receiver, but IANAL ;-)

Which is (part of the reason why) this type is discussion is not welcome
on this list (or other MythTV lists).

Mike
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Re: What's the point of MythTV HD? [ In reply to ]
On Dec 3, 2007 3:26 PM, David Linville <dlinvill@networksdown.com> wrote:
> On 12/3/07, Brad DerManouelian <myth@dermanouelian.com> wrote:
[snip]
>> You'll get about that quality from down-sampled S-Video
> > that started as HD quality. Saves a ton of disk space, too. I was
> > thinking about upgrading my DirecTV to HD for this specific scenario.
> >
>
> Wouldn't you end up with black bars on the top and bottom recording that
> way? If so that would kill quite a bit of extra resolution.
>
> David
>
>

I was thinking the same think as I read through this thread. DVDs
look pretty nice on my HD set because (most of them) fill nearly the
entire screen, so are using the full 720x480 res as best they can. I
would imagine, that s-video delivered HD is more like 640x480, then
still including the black bars. Can someone tell us that's not true?
I hope it's not.

- Willy
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