Mailing List Archive

Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:

http://labs.zap2it.com/


-----
IMPORTANT MESSAGE:

For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.

We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.

If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.

We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
-----



~Aryq~
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com> wrote:
>
> I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>
> http://labs.zap2it.com/
>
>
> -----
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
>
> For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
>
> We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
> suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
>
> If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
> company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
>
> We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> -----
>
>
>
> ~Aryq~
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


Yeah...lovely news.
Who else provides this sort of data?
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
Michael Freeman wrote:

>
> Yeah...lovely news.
> Who else provides this sort of data?

I get listing data from TMS for a program called SageTV that runs on my
Mac. I'm going to read over the license agreement but I suspect it would
be a violation to use the data for anything but the program it is
licensed for.

It's people knowingly violating the license with Myth systems that made
this inevitable. Some continued to violate even after being advised by
TMS of the violation.

A big Thank You to all those folks, you know who you are.

BEWW
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
>From: Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com>
>Reply-To: eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com,Discussion about mythtv
><mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
>Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:34:27 -0400
>
>I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
>out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>
>http://labs.zap2it.com/
>
>
>-----
>IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
>
>For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
>hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
>we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
>risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
>Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
>combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
>discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
>
>We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
>suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
>commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
>
>If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
>use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
>company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
>respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
>
>We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
>respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
>relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
>-----
>
>
>
>~Aryq~

So where does this leave MythTV? Without listing data I've got a thousand
dollar computer with 1.4TB of space and all it will do is play MP3's and
DVD's. I can't stand the very thought of paying Comcast for the privilege
of using one of their crappy DVR's.

Jake

_________________________________________________________________
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http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
no kidding my stomach is sitting a little be lower now :( But i have hope
in the community. They will come up with something I am sure. I just hope
we don't have to go back to scrapping websites to get the data or have to
deal with downtime of not data. We will see in the coming months what
happens. Maybe we can strike a deal with Zap2it or we find a new provider
or some new method.

Mitchell is sitting with his fingers crossed.....



On 6/19/07, Jake Palmer <jakep_82@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >From: Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com>
> >Reply-To: eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com,Discussion about mythtv
> ><mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> >To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> >Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
> >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:34:27 -0400
> >
> >I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> >out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
> >
> >http://labs.zap2it.com/
> >
> >
> >-----
> >IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
> >
> >For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> >hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> >we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> >risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> >Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> >combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> >discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
> >
> >We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
> >suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> >commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
> >
> >If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> >use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
> >company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> >respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
> >
> >We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> >respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> >relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> >-----
> >
> >
> >
> >~Aryq~
>
> So where does this leave MythTV? Without listing data I've got a thousand
> dollar computer with 1.4TB of space and all it will do is play MP3's and
> DVD's. I can't stand the very thought of paying Comcast for the privilege
> of using one of their crappy DVR's.
>
> Jake
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
> http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Jake Palmer <jakep_82@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >From: Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com>
> >Reply-To: eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com,Discussion about mythtv
> ><mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> >To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> >Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
> >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:34:27 -0400
> >
> >I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> >out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
> >
> >http://labs.zap2it.com/
> >
> >
> >-----
> >IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
> >
> >For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> >hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> >we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> >risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> >Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> >combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> >discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
> >
> >We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
> >suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> >commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
> >
> >If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> >use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
> >company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> >respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
> >
> >We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> >respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> >relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> >-----
> >
> >
> >
> >~Aryq~
>
> So where does this leave MythTV? Without listing data I've got a thousand
> dollar computer with 1.4TB of space and all it will do is play MP3's and
> DVD's. I can't stand the very thought of paying Comcast for the privilege
> of using one of their crappy DVR's.
>
> Jake


Back to XMLTV web scraping?

-JAC
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/20/07, Joseph Caputo <jcaputo1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 6/19/07, Jake Palmer <jakep_82@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >From: Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com>
> > >Reply-To: eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com,Discussion about mythtv
> > ><mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> > >To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
> > >Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:34:27 -0400
> > >
> > >I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> > >out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
> > >
> > >http://labs.zap2it.com/
> > >
> > >
> > >-----
> > >IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
> > >
> > >For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> > >hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> > >we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> > >risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> > >Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> > >combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> > >discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
> > >
> > >We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and
> we
> > >suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> > >commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
> > >
> > >If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> > >use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
> > >company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> > >respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
> > >
> > >We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> > >respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> > >relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> > >-----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >~Aryq~
> >
> > So where does this leave MythTV? Without listing data I've got a
> thousand
> > dollar computer with 1.4TB of space and all it will do is play MP3's and
> > DVD's. I can't stand the very thought of paying Comcast for the
> privilege
> > of using one of their crappy DVR's.
> >
> > Jake
>
>
> Back to XMLTV web scraping?


Australian's have been in this position from the start, you'll survivie :)
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On Jun 19, 2007, at 7:44 PM, Mitch Gore wrote:

> no kidding my stomach is sitting a little be lower now :( But i
> have hope in the community. They will come up with something I am
> sure. I just hope we don't have to go back to scrapping websites
> to get the data or have to deal with downtime of not data. We will
> see in the coming months what happens. Maybe we can strike a deal
> with Zap2it or we find a new provider or some new method.
>
> Mitchell is sitting with his fingers crossed.....

I don't mind paying $5 or $10/month for reliable TV listing data. I'm
sure there are lots of other people on this list willing to do the
same. If TMS doesn't want to handle those finances themselves,
perhaps someone in this community will strike a deal with them to
download the data for a fee and sell subscriptions to the MythTV
community. Makes a nice side-business if you're up to the task. :)
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
>
>
>
> Back to XMLTV web scraping?
>
> -JAC


The original method that MythTV used was pulling from zap2it just reading
thier webpages and parsing them as if it were a client reading each
webpage.. it put a huge strain on the zap2it servers which is why they came
out with zap2itlabs to provide raw xml data vs having thier servers needing
to parse hundreds of html requests.

Occasionally Zap2it would break XMLTV by changing the layout of the
webpages, or reparsing thier data. this could be a possibility in the future
although they might add some of the newer web features that would further
break automated grabbing which is if you request more than X amount of pages
in a short amount of time, it will present you with one of the picture
verification things to authenticate you as a human, vs a bot.. I hope I dont
have to pay to get reliable listings, but its a possibility if it means my
myth station keeps working
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 19-Jun-07, at 7:08 PM, Brian Wood wrote:

> Michael Freeman wrote:
>
>>
>> Yeah...lovely news.
>> Who else provides this sort of data?
>
> I get listing data from TMS for a program called SageTV that runs on my
> Mac. I'm going to read over the license agreement but I suspect it
> would
> be a violation to use the data for anything but the program it is
> licensed for.
>
> It's people knowingly violating the license with Myth systems that made
> this inevitable. Some continued to violate even after being advised by
> TMS of the violation.
>
> A big Thank You to all those folks, you know who you are.
>
> BEWW
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

What is the common violation? Using the data for profit?

Dustin

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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
Anyone remember lxmsuite?

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/129232
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8555;list=mythtv

I bet they would do much better now...

Bolek
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Boleslaw Ciesielski <bolek-mythtv@curl.com> wrote:
>
> Anyone remember lxmsuite?
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/129232
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=8555;list=mythtv
>
> I bet they would do much better now...
>
> Bolek



I tried thier site.. but seems they either went under.. or they let thier
domain registration lapse, and a cyber squatting company has taken it,
because its a spam site now
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
Dustin Nicholas Jenkins wrote:

>>
>> It's people knowingly violating the license with Myth systems that made
>> this inevitable. Some continued to violate even after being advised by
>> TMS of the violation.
>>
>> A big Thank You to all those folks, you know who you are.
>>
>> BEWW

>
> What is the common violation? Using the data for profit?

Essentially, in a few different ways. TMS posted their position many
many months ago and made it pretty clear what could happen.

I think the sale of commercial systems that depended on Zap2It to be
functional is what bothered them the most. I suspect the vendors selling
the systems saw it as the user getting the data, not the vendor, so both
sides felt they were in the right.

I wonder if the claim is just a smokescreen though. I suspect the Boys
on the Left Coast might have something to do with it. I find the date
interesting, I know of at least one other service that's making major
changes on that date in the name of "protecting content".

Then there's all the references on this list to ripping DVDs, something
known to upset the H'Wood types. Even if the rips were being made
legally (non-USA, non-CSS disks) this was often not made clear in the
posts, the Movie Moguls will assume the worst and our side will never be
heard.

But this is all speculation of course, I've been out of that business
for quite a while.

BEWW

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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
> no kidding my stomach is sitting a little be lower now :(

I have an uneasy feeling in my stomach as well. I really hope this
does not mean the end mythTV for me.

A couple of people mentioned grabbing the data from websites. I have a
bad feeling of that being that I doubt there is another mythTV user
with my same channel lineup so its doubtful that I would use the same
web site to grab the listings unless there is another site like
zap2it.


Somewhat of a relief, I have just looked and found that Comcast has
listings for my area. The problem is they use flash to display and
select the data.

John
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
> Somewhat of a relief, I have just looked and found that Comcast has
> listings for my area. The problem is they use flash to display and
> select the data.

I was wrong. It appears to be javascript driven so maybe this will be
a simpler task.

John
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
>
> I was wrong. It appears to be javascript driven so maybe this will be
> a simpler task.
>
> John


http://www.tv-now.com/thegrids.htm?Zip=<your zip code here>

Text based listings also
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Michael Lynch <lynchmv@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wrong. It appears to be javascript driven so maybe this will be
> > a simpler task.
> >
> > John
>
>
> http://www.tv-now.com/thegrids.htm?Zip=<your zip code here>
>
> Text based listings also

Hmm doesn't work at all on firefox on the mac, I get listings in
safari but they are rather jumbled but yes, the data does appear to be
there. I'd hate to resort back to screen scrapping, kinda makes me
feel dirty all over again. Yes we need the data, but zap2it labs came
about because of all the screen scrapping and the issues it caused.
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Michael Lynch <lynchmv@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I was wrong. It appears to be javascript driven so maybe this will be
> > a simpler task.
> >
> > John
>
>
> http://www.tv-now.com/thegrids.htm?Zip=<your zip code here>
>

Thanks for the link.

Hmm, They have the wrong lineup for my zip code and none of the 6
choices matches my channel lineup but I guess some scripting could fix
this as most of the shows should be the same just on a different
channel #.

John
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
On 6/19/07, Eric Holt <eric-mythtv@skoozdag.com> wrote:
> I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>
> http://labs.zap2it.com/
>
>
> -----
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
>
> For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
>
> We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
> suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
>
> If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> use, please let us know by e-mail (labs@zap2it.com) and include your
> company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
>
> We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> -----
>
>
>
> ~Aryq~
> _______________________________________________

Although Zap2It provided 14 days of guide info, I don't think we are
"doomed". EIT seems to be a good alternative to consider even though
it only provides ~24 hours of info for any given channel.

-Chad
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Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
Wow what a blow to the MythTV community! I know eventually there will be an alternative for tv listings, but I feel like some one just kicked me in the nads. Anyone have any hopeful news or tidbits to ease our nerves??? Please post something even if you have to make it up.





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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
If anyone on this list is thinking of setting up a commercial EPG
solution provider to replace this I'd like a private conversation.

I am just about to start next Tuesday on the genesis of a video
cataloging system with two taxonomists that I think has potential
relevance for Myth-TV.

This is a commercial project though and will require some form of
subscription/access so if you are against ROI on open source projects
then this isn't for you but if you are planning on stepping up to the
plate to provide a EPG service then get in touch

(BTW you might also want to read for a very very brief inkling about the
project http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/06/vh1-podcasts.html )



Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
dean@cognation.net
+1-212-203-4357 Ph
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).




> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org [mailto:mythtv-users-
> bounces@mythtv.org] On Behalf Of David
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2007 12:33 AM
> To: mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>
> Wow what a blow to the MythTV community! I know eventually there will
be an
> alternative for tv listings, but I feel like some one just kicked me
in the nads.
> Anyone have any hopeful news or tidbits to ease our nerves??? Please
post
> something even if you have to make it up.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
John Drescher wrote:
> On 6/19/07, Michael Lynch <lynchmv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I was wrong. It appears to be javascript driven so maybe this will be
>>> a simpler task.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>> http://www.tv-now.com/thegrids.htm?Zip=<your zip code here>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the link.
>
> Hmm, They have the wrong lineup for my zip code and none of the 6
> choices matches my channel lineup but I guess some scripting could fix
> this as most of the shows should be the same just on a different
> channel #.
>
> John
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> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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>
It looks like they are using zap2it also. Some of the channels they
missing are the same ones that Zap2it are missing for directv.
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
> Australian's have been in this position from the start, you'll survivie :)

Australia's TV guide data is copyrighted and there is no official free
source. Some guys over here have set up an excellent grabber which
uses multiple sources and makes decisions about quality of data from
each source to ensure the best possible EPG data. Take a look at
http://svn.whuffy.com/
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
Jim Gifford wrote:
> It looks like they are using zap2it also. Some of the channels they
> missing are the same ones that Zap2it are missing for directv.

FYI, Tribune Media (aka TMS, the company that owns zap2it) is the *only*
source of episode guide data in the US other than the stations
themselves. They have an exclusive license to all of it (even if a
large chunk of the descriptions are incorrect). Everyone else providing
listings is just buying it from TMS.

-Chris
Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [ In reply to ]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org [mailto:mythtv-users-
> bounces@mythtv.org] On Behalf Of Phill Edwards
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2007 12:46 AM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>
> > Australian's have been in this position from the start, you'll
survivie :)
>
> Australia's TV guide data is copyrighted and there is no official free
> source.



That and Sensis still claiming copyright to the white pages cracks me up
:)



Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
dean@cognation.net
+1-212-203-4357 Ph
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).
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