On 03/25/2007 11:45 AM, Rod Smith wrote: > On Saturday 24 March 2007 23:11, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> If your capture card/drivers change, you'll need to delete and re-add
>> capture cards /and/ video sources. You should also use the Delete All
>> buttons to delete them; otherwise, you'll leave old data there that will
>> likely cause problems.
> If by this you mean that you've got to assign video sources to input
> connections using the Input Connections section of mythtv-setup, I agree. If
> by this you mean you must delete and then re-create all your video sources
> using the Video Sources section of mythtv-setup, then please elaborate.
Basically, if you need to change your video source, the best approach is
to Delete All video sources and re-create video source, input
connections, and channels.* If you need to change your capture
card/drivers, the best approach is to Delete All capture cards /and/
Delete All video sources and re-create capture cards, video sources,
input connections, and channels.**
Why? (a.k.a. "The Delete-All Manifesto")
If someone sends me a MS Word document that I'm supposed to edit and/or
format, the first thing I do is save it as plain text and then edit and
properly format the unformatted version. It's easier to ensure
everything is done properly if you start from a clean state--rather than
trying to undo what's wrong and do what's right. (And, since MS Word >
2.0 has stopped trying to get people to properly format their documents
and instead has changed "auto-whatever" to format docs the incorrect way
most users did with MS Word 2.0 (i.e. Tab-Tab-Tab, Enter-Enter-Enter,
everything default style, ...), you're almost guaranteed that any
document you get is not clean to start with, but that's a whole
Likewise, with Myth configuration--which, IMHO, is much more important
than a cleanly-formatted Word document--the best way to ensure
everything is cleanly-configured is to start from a clean state. The
more things change, the more likely starting from a clean configuration
is /required/ (as opposed to just A Good Thing).*** When drivers
change, you can take a chance that the old configuration might work, or
just Delete All and reconfigure. Even if most upgrades work without
issue, once you start MythTV and find there are no available capture
cards, the first thing you should do is Delete All.
Also, recreating video sources, input connections, and channels all
together ensures that the user verifies every aspect of the
configuration. Most questions users have when changes to these areas
don't fix the problem are due to the fact that they missed some small
value that also needed changing--perhaps in a section they thought would
Delete All also has the benefit of resetting capture card, video source,
and channel ID's. Therefore, when using Delete All, the OC crowd
doesn't worry about, "I only have 2 cards, so why does the status page
call them, 'encoder 1' and 'encoder 26'?"
Also, using Delete All to reconfigure everything every once in a while
ensures that you remember how to configure the system, so in the event
of catastrophic failure, you're not starting from ground 0. Instead you
have some MythTV configuration knowledge in your toolbox. If you
configure your Myth box, run it for 4 years, lose a DB, and try to set
up a new box, you're likely to spend a lot of time trying to remember
how you had configured it last time.
And, lastly, using Delete All and re-creating everything takes about 2
minutes. Changing miscellaneous values, testing, finding it doesn't
work, changing more values, testing, checking the list archive,
Googling, writing a message to send to the -users list, and waiting for
some kind soul to spend >2 minutes to read your post and write a
response (even if it's just the "Use Delete All to delete your video
sources and then re-create video sources, input connections, and
channels" post), takes a *bit* more than 2 minutes.
I'd even venture to say that it's quite likely to take longer to dig
through the setup screens to find the right value(s) to change while
verifying the existing values than to simply Delete All and
re-configure. The /only/ way it could possibly be faster to change
individual values is if you get /everything/ right the first time (and
if you find things quickly). In the end, though, you took a risk that
saved you some amount of time less than 2 minutes. Not, IMHO, a good
If you completely understand all of the requirements of capture
card/video source configuration (i.e. the rules in place in the code) as
well as the linkage of the different pieces of data (both to other data
and to the code), and the effects of changing each piece of data, feel
free to change the occasional value. But, if after I suggest Delete
All, someone tries a different approach "because the 2-minutes to
re-create everything is too tiresome," he/she shouldn't be surprised
when I fail to reply again if there are still issues. ;) I've been in
the MythTV code--through many sections that describe the rules for this
data--and I have a pretty good understanding of the data, but I /still/
use Delete All.
(Well, you /asked/ me to elaborate...)
* "mythfilldatabase won't add channel X to my video source."
"I deleted a channel, but it keeps coming back."
"I added a channel, I can see it in LiveTV, but when I try to schedule
a recording from that channel, it doesn't record anything."
"My cable company re-numbered all my channels, so I changed them in
the DB/mythtv-setup/MythWeb and now my scheduled recordings don't work."
** Television/Tuner 0
*** Sometimes changes require data modifications that cannot be made
through the mythtv-setup UI. Changing values directly in the database
is always the wrong solution ( http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/dev/255378#255378
), so the
only supported approach is using Delete All and re-configuring from
scratch. (Why not make all values editable directly in MythTV? Hmmm.
Good point. Perhaps MythTV configuration isn't complex enough... ;)
**** "It didn't work the first time, but when I used "Delete
All"/dropped the database and re-did it, it worked!" (Since Myth isn't
changing when someone drops the database, do you want to guess what does
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