Mailing List Archive

Re: Regression in Previously Recorded
On 11/14/2017 12:25 PM, David Engel wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> I found a small regression in the new, Previously Recorded screen.
> When the key bound to the DELETE action is pressed, it brings up the
> Delete Options menu. Previously, it went straight to the delete this
> episode confirmation dialog. Would you like me to open a ticket for
> this? Alternaively, I can fix it myself if you dont' have the time.
>
Hi David

Perhaps you can give me guidance on the best arrangement. There are
three menus in the new Previously Recorded

Enter / Select
"Allow this episode to re-record" or "Never record this episode"
"Remove this episode from the list"
"Remove all episodes for this title"

Delete
Same as Enter/Select (different wording - that is bad and should be
fixed - bad duplication of code also).

M(menu)
Sort
Edit Schedule
Custom Edit
Program Details
Upcoming
Channel Search
Program Guide

I can change Delete to go direct to "remove episode"
Should the full list of Delete options be on Enter/Select on in the
M(menu) list? Or else what should Enter/Select do?

Somebody had said the most common actions need to be on Enter/Select and
the others on M(menu).

Peter


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Re: Regression in Previously Recorded [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 02:12:50PM -0500, Peter Bennett wrote:
> On 11/14/2017 12:25 PM, David Engel wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > I found a small regression in the new, Previously Recorded screen.
> > When the key bound to the DELETE action is pressed, it brings up the
> > Delete Options menu. Previously, it went straight to the delete this
> > episode confirmation dialog. Would you like me to open a ticket for
> > this? Alternaively, I can fix it myself if you dont' have the time.
> >
> Hi David
>
> Perhaps you can give me guidance on the best arrangement. There are three
> menus in the new Previously Recorded
>
> Enter / Select
> "Allow this episode to re-record" or "Never record this episode"
> "Remove this episode from the list"
> "Remove all episodes for this title"
>
> Delete
> Same as Enter/Select (different wording - that is bad and should be fixed -
> bad duplication of code also).
>
> M(menu)
> Sort
> Edit Schedule
> Custom Edit
> Program Details
> Upcoming
> Channel Search
> Program Guide
>
> I can change Delete to go direct to "remove episode"
> Should the full list of Delete options be on Enter/Select on in the M(menu)
> list? Or else what should Enter/Select do?
>
> Somebody had said the most common actions need to be on Enter/Select and the
> others on M(menu).

That was me who said that. I don't know if it's officially
docuemented anywhere, but here's the guidelines I try to follow.
Pressing SELECT should bring up a menu with the most common actions
(limited to about 3 to 5) relevent to the currently highlighted
"thing" (*). Pressing MENU should bring up a menu with additional,
less common actions and other actions that affect other things about
the screen (like sorting, etc.) (**). Pressing other keys like INFO,
PLAY, EDIT and DELETE should act as shortcuts to choosing one of the
options on either of the menus.

In the case of Previously Recorded, I use the delete episode and
delete serires options about equally. When I did the previous menus
for that screen, I bound the DELETE action to delete episode instead
of delete series on the basis that it was less dangerous.

(*) Note that there are exceptions to this. One very notable one is
the Watch Recordings screen where pressing SELECT starts playing.
Personally, I'd like to fix that and do away with the whole,
unintuitive, "double menu" thing on that screen.

(**) It's also been suggested that we should have something like
ITEMMENU and SCREENMENU actions for each screen. Then, users could
bind those keys differently if they don't like the default bindings.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Re: Regression in Previously Recorded [ In reply to ]
On 11/14/2017 03:08 PM, David Engel wrote:
> In the case of Previously Recorded, I use the delete episode and
> delete serires options about equally. When I did the previous menus
> for that screen, I bound the DELETE action to delete episode instead
> of delete series on the basis that it was less dangerous.
Hi David

I have changed the Delete button to go direct to the "Delete this
episode" confirmation. Please let me know if there are any further
changes needed or any problems with this.

Regards
Peter
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Re: Regression in Previously Recorded [ In reply to ]
On 11/14/2017 03:08 PM, David Engel wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 02:12:50PM -0500, Peter Bennett wrote:
>> Somebody had said the most common actions need to be on Enter/Select and the
>> others on M(menu).
> That was me who said that. I don't know if it's officially
> docuemented anywhere, but here's the guidelines I try to follow.
> Pressing SELECT should bring up a menu with the most common actions
> (limited to about 3 to 5) relevent to the currently highlighted
> "thing" (*). Pressing MENU should bring up a menu with additional,
> less common actions and other actions that affect other things about
> the screen (like sorting, etc.) (**). Pressing other keys like INFO,
> PLAY, EDIT and DELETE should act as shortcuts to choosing one of the
> options on either of the menus.

Yeah, originally MENU was meant to bring up a menu that listed actions
that apply to the screen or the section of MythTV currently in use (and
may include actions that apply to the currently-selected item), and
SELECT was meant to bring up the "shortcut" or "context" menu for
actions that apply to the currently-selected individual item. Generally
MENU brought up a more-complete menu and SELECT brought up the
most-commonly used or most-likely-to-be-desired actions.

> (*) Note that there are exceptions to this. One very notable one is
> the Watch Recordings screen where pressing SELECT starts playing.
> Personally, I'd like to fix that and do away with the whole,
> unintuitive, "double menu" thing on that screen.

And this exception is where it was changed when users complained that
"Any sane user interface doesn't need 2 different buttons for menus."
I'm not sure if the people who complained were using the Apple 5-button
remote and really couldn't spare a button or if they just hadn't
recognized the reason. So, the 2 menus--the context menu (SELECT menu)
and the main menu (MENU menu) were combined into one that flip-flops
when you hit MENU again. It's also even more annoying that which one
displays initially differs depending on which column your selection is
in when you hit MENU, so it makes it really awkward to explain how to do
something in that screen ("Hit the MENU key, once or twice, until you
see 'Playlist Options,' and then select 'Playlist Options'..." instead
of just saying, "Hit the MENU key, then select Playlist Options,
then..." or "Hit MENU|Playlist Options...").

> (**) It's also been suggested that we should have something like
> ITEMMENU and SCREENMENU actions for each screen.

Which, funny enough is what SELECT and MENU were, respectively. :) And
now that it was changed in Watch Recordings, but not elsewhere (such as
Watch Videos), usability of MythTV is even worse than it was before--I'm
constantly pressing the wrong button because I watch things about
equally in recordings and videos, and they're different, so I can't
train my brain/fingers to do the right thing since the approach for the
same action is different in the 2 places.

Mike
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Re: Regression in Previously Recorded [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 04:05:32PM -0500, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
>
> On 11/14/2017 03:08 PM, David Engel wrote:
> > In the case of Previously Recorded, I use the delete episode and
> > delete serires options about equally. When I did the previous menus
> > for that screen, I bound the DELETE action to delete episode instead
> > of delete series on the basis that it was less dangerous.
> Hi David
>
> I have changed the Delete button to go direct to the "Delete this episode"
> confirmation. Please let me know if there are any further changes needed or
> any problems with this.

Thanks.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Re: Regression in Previously Recorded [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 04:10:23PM -0500, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> On 11/14/2017 03:08 PM, David Engel wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 14, 2017 at 02:12:50PM -0500, Peter Bennett wrote:
> > > Somebody had said the most common actions need to be on Enter/Select and the
> > > others on M(menu).
> > That was me who said that. I don't know if it's officially
> > docuemented anywhere, but here's the guidelines I try to follow.
> > Pressing SELECT should bring up a menu with the most common actions
> > (limited to about 3 to 5) relevent to the currently highlighted
> > "thing" (*). Pressing MENU should bring up a menu with additional,
> > less common actions and other actions that affect other things about
> > the screen (like sorting, etc.) (**). Pressing other keys like INFO,
> > PLAY, EDIT and DELETE should act as shortcuts to choosing one of the
> > options on either of the menus.
>
> Yeah, originally MENU was meant to bring up a menu that listed actions that
> apply to the screen or the section of MythTV currently in use (and may
> include actions that apply to the currently-selected item), and SELECT was
> meant to bring up the "shortcut" or "context" menu for actions that apply to
> the currently-selected individual item. Generally MENU brought up a
> more-complete menu and SELECT brought up the most-commonly used or
> most-likely-to-be-desired actions.
>
> > (*) Note that there are exceptions to this. One very notable one is
> > the Watch Recordings screen where pressing SELECT starts playing.
> > Personally, I'd like to fix that and do away with the whole,
> > unintuitive, "double menu" thing on that screen.
>
> And this exception is where it was changed when users complained that "Any
> sane user interface doesn't need 2 different buttons for menus." I'm not
> sure if the people who complained were using the Apple 5-button remote and
> really couldn't spare a button or if they just hadn't recognized the reason.
> So, the 2 menus--the context menu (SELECT menu) and the main menu (MENU
> menu) were combined into one that flip-flops when you hit MENU again. It's
> also even more annoying that which one displays initially differs depending
> on which column your selection is in when you hit MENU, so it makes it
> really awkward to explain how to do something in that screen ("Hit the MENU
> key, once or twice, until you see 'Playlist Options,' and then select
> 'Playlist Options'..." instead of just saying, "Hit the MENU key, then
> select Playlist Options, then..." or "Hit MENU|Playlist Options...").

Yes, the flop-flopping menu is what I was referring to by "dobule
menu". Flip-flopping is much more accurate, pejorative name.
Although, even my Mom eventually figured it out.

> > (**) It's also been suggested that we should have something like
> > ITEMMENU and SCREENMENU actions for each screen.
>
> Which, funny enough is what SELECT and MENU were, respectively. :) And now
> that it was changed in Watch Recordings, but not elsewhere (such as Watch
> Videos), usability of MythTV is even worse than it was before--I'm
> constantly pressing the wrong button because I watch things about equally in
> recordings and videos, and they're different, so I can't train my
> brain/fingers to do the right thing since the approach for the same action
> is different in the 2 places.

Now try switching to a new remote where the MENU and EXIT/BACK buttons
have been swapped! I did that recently and still have to stop
sometimes and really think about which button I mean to press. :(

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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