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imdb replacement? themoviedb.org
There is a new movie info site that will have an API for downloading the info: http://www.themoviedb.org/. The API is not yet up and running.

Perhaps this could be the imdb replacement given the discussions on term of use with imdb. I don't think there will be the same issues with this site.

This since replaces the now offline movie-xml.com.

It is discussed in the meedios forums at http://www.meedios.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50781
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
The themoviedb.org api for movie searching and info as well as the poster api has now been released http://api.themoviedb.org/2.0/docs/

This may be an option to avoid violation of the imdb site terms of use as well as avoiding to have to update the imdb.pl script for frequent imdb web site changes.


----- Original Message -----
There is a new movie info site that will have an API for downloading the info: http://www.themoviedb.org/. The API is not yet up and running.

Perhaps this could be the imdb replacement given the discussions on term of use with imdb. I don't think there will be the same issues with this site.

This since replaces the now offline movie-xml.com.

It is discussed in the meedios forums at http://www.meedios.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50781
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
By the way I've signed up for an account and sent them a message asking if all mythtv users could use one api_key and asked if there is any concern over terms of use with mythtv. I'll poste what they reply with.
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
Got a response from Travis Bell at themoviedb.org.

"Once you've released your script send me over a link and I will link it on the website. Using your API key is fine. It's more of a "API key per application" that we're after."

I've got the api key that could be used mythtv in general, I'll try to write a script some in the next week or so, but if someone else is interested or beats me to it, let me know.

I would like some feedback from the myth developers if such a script would be accepted to SVN. I don't believe there are any "terms of use" concerns as there currently are with imdb.

I would recommend moving the imdb.pl functions getMovieData and getMovieList to a new file in MythTV/imdb.pm, then having the new script first lookup the movie at themoviedb.org, then fall back to imdb if its not found at themoviedb.org. The themoviedb.org is growing but doesn't have everything that imdb does. Eventually the imdb code could be removed entirely.
----- Original Message -----

By the way I've signed up for an account and sent them a message asking if all mythtv users could use one api_key and asked if there is any concern over terms of use with mythtv. I'll poste what they reply with.
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM, Bill Stewart <wstewart@hgrace.com> wrote:
> I would recommend moving the imdb.pl functions getMovieData and getMovieList
> to a new file in MythTV/imdb.pm, then having the new script first lookup the
> movie at themoviedb.org, then fall back to imdb if its not found at
> themoviedb.org. The themoviedb.org is growing but doesn't have everything
> that imdb does. Eventually the imdb code could be removed entirely.

We already have a few alternative lookup scripts (allocine.pl,
ilovecinema.pl, kinox.pl, ofdb.py, etc), so why not just offer it as
another option, but going for the goal of removing the imdb code seems
over-reaching at this stage IMHO.
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Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
The other scripts, intended for france, russia, etc, are not good alternatives for north america (I don't believe so). Removing imdb has been discussed in many threads for the past months and I recall that removal is imminent due to concern over the terms of use.

Yes themoviedb.org will be offered as an alternate script. I have a prototype script working already and since themoviedb.org is not quite as populated as imdb, my script falls back on imdb when it finds nothing at themoviedb.org or augments the results. Since some of the imdb code has already been moved to MythTV/MythVideoCommon.pm, I am at this stage merely suggesting to move more of it to the Mythtv sub dir so that both my new themoviedb.pl script can use it and the current imdb.pl script can use it without have two copies of the same code hanging around.

I will post my prototype script soon, but its not quite ready for prime time yet as themoviedb.org API is not quite complete yet.
The API is missing information that the imdb currently provides, but I know that the api will be updated soon to include the addtional information. All the needed information and more is available in themoviedb.org database as one can see through the web page access, it is just a matter of waiting until the API is updated.

themoviedb.org was developed as a replacement for imdb for meedios I believe. In fact their API is able to use the imdb numbering.

This new database opens new possiblilities for mythvideo, such as trailors links are available to could be played through mythtube.
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
> I would recommend moving the imdb.pl functions getMovieData and
> getMovieList to a new file in MythTV/imdb.pm, then having the new script
> first lookup the movie at themoviedb.org, then fall back to imdb if its
> not found at themoviedb.org. The themoviedb.org is growing but doesn't
> have everything that imdb does. Eventually the imdb code could be
> removed entirely.

MythVideoCommon.pm was intended for exactly that sort of thing, but
falling back to IMDb is not an option. I will find time before the
release to make us comply with the various site terms (in IMDb's case,
this means not using them). At the same time I'm going to make it easier
to add scripts and make choosing which is used easier.

Direct use of IMDb will be gone for 0.22. For those who can't live
without it, imdbpy.py will remain, and I will provide instructions for
how IMDbPy can be used while complying with IMDb's terms of use.

I liked omdb.org because, judging only by their lack of content, it
seemed clear they were not stealing it (well, posters and if they were,
they were doing a poor job of it).

themmoviedb.org's path to choosing not to do this was apparently public
(their bug #27) and well, wasn't very reassuring if you were looking for
a firm statement.

Things that would be nice to know:

One purpose of an API key is to track abuse, how is abuse defined or
will they just know it when they see it?

Their data license is CC Attribution, what do they actually require (I
couldn't find it on their site)?

--
Anduin Withers
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Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
Hey Anduin,

I'd be curious to get more information with what you mean with a few
of your last comments.

1) TMDb is actually based on OMDB just with an easier to use API and a
focus around fan art and posters. As a media center enthusiast myself,
I've been able to tailor TMDb to be more of a "resource for media
center enthusiasts BY a media center enthusiast".

2) All of the content on TMDb has originated from 3 sources. OMDB,
movie-xml.com and user submitted. We don't do any scraping, nor do we
plan to based on as you mentioned, ticket #27.

3) Further to my point #3, were you under the impression after reading
ticket #27 we _were_ going to start scraping IMDb? I thought that
ticket was pretty clear that we were never going to do this. We want
our content to be 100% user generated much like Wikipedia.

In regards to what I consider to be "abuse" well, yesterday a couple
of IP's were scraping every single page on our site. That's abuse.
XBMC hits our API around 8000 times a day. That's NOT abuse. I
wouldn't very concerned with this. If you stay legit there's no worry
of anything happening.

Hope that clears some stuff up, all I am trying to do is create the
best open source movie data round and unlike other choices out there
make it as easy as possible for developers and applications like Myth
use that data.

Cheers,

--
Travis Bell
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
Anduin,

Thanks for the feedback. I assumed that imdb would be gone for 0.22. My script is written to fall back on imdb, but it is quite easily removed. I really like that themoviedb.org has a real API and that this should avoid having to update the script as frequently has to be done for the imdb one.

I'll ask Travis Bell at themoviedb.org your questions. But based on what I have seen so far, there shouldn't be any issues for mythtv. He said that they issue an api key per application. If needed we can always make the key a parameter to script that the user has to set in the mythvideo settings.

I am curious of the imdbpy.py script, I thought it may hang around, so could you elaborate on complying with terms of use of this one?
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
> 1) TMDb is actually based on OMDB just with an easier to use API and a
> focus around fan art and posters. As a media center enthusiast myself,
> I've been able to tailor TMDb to be more of a "resource for media center
> enthusiasts BY a media center enthusiast".

Yes, I did read the information pages on your site and glanced at the forum.

> 2) All of the content on TMDb has originated from 3 sources. OMDB,
> movie-xml.com and user submitted. We don't do any scraping, nor do we
> plan to based on as you mentioned, ticket #27.

My only point is that your initial response to the feature request
wasn't "no that violates IMDb's terms of service and probably copyright
law and will never happen".

http://meticulo.lighthouseapp.com/projects/17044/tickets/27-imdb-lookup-when-adding-movie

> 3) Further to my point #3, were you under the impression after reading
> ticket #27 we _were_ going to start scraping IMDb?

No.

> I thought that ticket
> was pretty clear that we were never going to do this. We want our
> content to be 100% user generated much like Wikipedia.

Which is exactly what we are looking for, I had hoped to find it. My
worry is that some percentage of that content is generated from that
highly creative process involving both copying and pasting.

> In regards to what I consider to be "abuse" well, yesterday a couple of
> IP's were scraping every single page on our site. That's abuse. XBMC
> hits our API around 8000 times a day. That's NOT abuse. I wouldn't very
> concerned with this. If you stay legit there's no worry of anything
> happening.

For any script actually packaged with MythTV, published terms will be
complied with. If this currently is limited to not scrapping the whole
site it would not be a problem.

> Hope that clears some stuff up, all I am trying to do is create the
> best open source movie data round and unlike other choices out there
> make it as easy as possible for developers and applications like Myth
> use that data.

Most of the clarification was directed at bits that were clear. Mine was
a process objection not a result one.

I have some of the same worries about omdb.org. There are user
submissions of copyrighted material, taken directly from IMDb, in
omdb.org data. omdb.org at least has a copyright abuse address, the
usual notice about movie posters and has some evidence of cleaning out
bad submissions (though somewhat less than thoroughly).

I'm not sure if wagering against C-61 (or similar) or the EUCD is safe.

--
Anduin Withers

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Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
Hey Anduin,

Great, glad that cleared some issues up.

Being in the early stages I've still been drafting these policies you
speak of. I can assure you that should anyone show me some copyright
abuse I will respond to it. Much like OMDB/TheTVDB, I have licensed
this data as CC Attribution. As time moves forward my hope is that
with more and more users, contributors etc... there will be kind of a
"core" editor team that can assist with these duties.

If you have any more questions please fire away.

I've just made some more updates to the API, you can now pull cast
data and genre's down so hopefully we'll see some integration between
TMDb and MythTV :-P


Cheers,

--
Travis Bell







On 14/11/2008, at 8:50 AM, Anduin Withers wrote:

>> 1) TMDb is actually based on OMDB just with an easier to use API
>> and a
>> focus around fan art and posters. As a media center enthusiast
>> myself,
>> I've been able to tailor TMDb to be more of a "resource for media
>> center
>> enthusiasts BY a media center enthusiast".
>
> Yes, I did read the information pages on your site and glanced at
> the forum.
>
>> 2) All of the content on TMDb has originated from 3 sources. OMDB,
>> movie-xml.com and user submitted. We don't do any scraping, nor do we
>> plan to based on as you mentioned, ticket #27.
>
> My only point is that your initial response to the feature request
> wasn't "no that violates IMDb's terms of service and probably
> copyright
> law and will never happen".
>
> http://meticulo.lighthouseapp.com/projects/17044/tickets/27-imdb-lookup-when-adding-movie
>
>> 3) Further to my point #3, were you under the impression after
>> reading
>> ticket #27 we _were_ going to start scraping IMDb?
>
> No.
>
>> I thought that ticket
>> was pretty clear that we were never going to do this. We want our
>> content to be 100% user generated much like Wikipedia.
>
> Which is exactly what we are looking for, I had hoped to find it. My
> worry is that some percentage of that content is generated from that
> highly creative process involving both copying and pasting.
>
>> In regards to what I consider to be "abuse" well, yesterday a
>> couple of
>> IP's were scraping every single page on our site. That's abuse. XBMC
>> hits our API around 8000 times a day. That's NOT abuse. I wouldn't
>> very
>> concerned with this. If you stay legit there's no worry of anything
>> happening.
>
> For any script actually packaged with MythTV, published terms will be
> complied with. If this currently is limited to not scrapping the whole
> site it would not be a problem.
>
>> Hope that clears some stuff up, all I am trying to do is create the
>> best open source movie data round and unlike other choices out there
>> make it as easy as possible for developers and applications like Myth
>> use that data.
>
> Most of the clarification was directed at bits that were clear. Mine
> was
> a process objection not a result one.
>
> I have some of the same worries about omdb.org. There are user
> submissions of copyrighted material, taken directly from IMDb, in
> omdb.org data. omdb.org at least has a copyright abuse address, the
> usual notice about movie posters and has some evidence of cleaning out
> bad submissions (though somewhat less than thoroughly).
>
> I'm not sure if wagering against C-61 (or similar) or the EUCD is
> safe.
>
> --
> Anduin Withers
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
2008/11/13 Travis Bell <travisbell@me.com>:
> Hey Anduin,
> Great, glad that cleared some issues up.
> Being in the early stages I've still been drafting these policies you speak
> of. I can assure you that should anyone show me some copyright abuse I will
> respond to it. Much like OMDB/TheTVDB, I have licensed this data as CC
> Attribution. As time moves forward my hope is that with more and more users,
> contributors etc... there will be kind of a "core" editor team that can
> assist with these duties.
> If you have any more questions please fire away.
> I've just made some more updates to the API, you can now pull cast data and
> genre's down so hopefully we'll see some integration between TMDb and MythTV
> :-P
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Travis Bell
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 14/11/2008, at 8:50 AM, Anduin Withers wrote:
>
> 1) TMDb is actually based on OMDB just with an easier to use API and a
>
> focus around fan art and posters. As a media center enthusiast myself,
>
> I've been able to tailor TMDb to be more of a "resource for media center
>
> enthusiasts BY a media center enthusiast".
>
> Yes, I did read the information pages on your site and glanced at the forum.
>
> 2) All of the content on TMDb has originated from 3 sources. OMDB,
>
> movie-xml.com and user submitted. We don't do any scraping, nor do we
>
> plan to based on as you mentioned, ticket #27.
>
> My only point is that your initial response to the feature request
> wasn't "no that violates IMDb's terms of service and probably copyright
> law and will never happen".
>
> http://meticulo.lighthouseapp.com/projects/17044/tickets/27-imdb-lookup-when-adding-movie
>
> 3) Further to my point #3, were you under the impression after reading
>
> ticket #27 we _were_ going to start scraping IMDb?
>
> No.
>
> I thought that ticket
>
> was pretty clear that we were never going to do this. We want our
>
> content to be 100% user generated much like Wikipedia.
>
> Which is exactly what we are looking for, I had hoped to find it. My
> worry is that some percentage of that content is generated from that
> highly creative process involving both copying and pasting.
>
> In regards to what I consider to be "abuse" well, yesterday a couple of
>
> IP's were scraping every single page on our site. That's abuse. XBMC
>
> hits our API around 8000 times a day. That's NOT abuse. I wouldn't very
>
> concerned with this. If you stay legit there's no worry of anything
>
> happening.
>
> For any script actually packaged with MythTV, published terms will be
> complied with. If this currently is limited to not scrapping the whole
> site it would not be a problem.
>
> Hope that clears some stuff up, all I am trying to do is create the
>
> best open source movie data round and unlike other choices out there
>
> make it as easy as possible for developers and applications like Myth
>
> use that data.
>
> Most of the clarification was directed at bits that were clear. Mine was
> a process objection not a result one.
>
> I have some of the same worries about omdb.org. There are user
> submissions of copyrighted material, taken directly from IMDb, in
> omdb.org data. omdb.org at least has a copyright abuse address, the
> usual notice about movie posters and has some evidence of cleaning out
> bad submissions (though somewhat less than thoroughly).
>
> I'm not sure if wagering against C-61 (or similar) or the EUCD is safe.
>
> --
> Anduin Withers
>


Just was browsing around at thetvdb.com, that looks like something
that could be very cool too. Perhaps if the tmdb.org stuff goes well,
the next step could be to look at what thetvdb.com could provide for
myth. Posters and Banners for TV shows, actors, and other general
information that might not be provided by datadirect. Sounds
promising.

Thanks!
Matt
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Re: imdb replacement? themoviedb.org [ In reply to ]
On 12/09/2008 09:47 AM, Matt S. wrote:
> Just was browsing around at thetvdb.com, that looks like something
> that could be very cool too. Perhaps if the tmdb.org stuff goes well,
> the next step could be to look at what thetvdb.com could provide for
> myth. Posters and Banners for TV shows, actors, and other general
> information that might not be provided by datadirect. Sounds
> promising.

Not to mention any names and not to make any promises, but someone (not
me) has already written such a script and is looking to get it in shape
for inclusion in Myth.

Mike
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