Mailing List Archive

Support for DRDB
Hi,


I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.


Are any of you aware this or is this a false claim?


Yours

--martin

P.S.: Of course support from LINBIT should be available even if SuSE or Redhat will not support it anymore.
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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 2015-01-16T11:56:04, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon, RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:

> I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.

This is massively incorrect for SLE HA. (drbd is part of the HA add-on,
not SLES.) We have absolutely no such plans, and will continue to
support drbd as part of our offerings.

Where did you hear that?


Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA
SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 1/16/2015 8:39 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
> On 2015-01-16T11:56:04, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon,
RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased
>> out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.
>
> This is massively incorrect for SLE HA. (drbd is part of the HA add-on,
> not SLES.) We have absolutely no such plans, and will continue to
> support drbd as part of our offerings.
>
> Where did you hear that?

Don't know about RHEL but on Centos you get DRBD from ELRepo, not even
EPEL, so I expect it has not been in the RHEL for quite some time.
Unless RedHat's offering it as a separate add-on to their paying
customers (but the last rumour I heard was they wouldn't do it 'cause
they didn't want to share the loot with linbit).

Dima


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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
Hi Lars,

thanks for the update.

I am glad to hear that SLE HA has no plans to drop support for DRBD.

Unfortunately I currently cannot disclose who is spreading this false information.

Regards,
--martin konold

________________________________________
Von: linux-ha-bounces@lists.linux-ha.org <linux-ha-bounces@lists.linux-ha.org> im Auftrag von Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.com>
Gesendet: Freitag, 16. Januar 2015 15:39
An: linux-ha@lists.linux-ha.org
Betreff: Re: [Linux-HA] Support for DRDB

On 2015-01-16T11:56:04, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon, RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:

> I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.

This is massively incorrect for SLE HA. (drbd is part of the HA add-on,
not SLES.) We have absolutely no such plans, and will continue to
support drbd as part of our offerings.

Where did you hear that?


Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA
SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 16/01/15 10:43 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 1/16/2015 8:39 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
>> On 2015-01-16T11:56:04, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon,
> RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased
>>> out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.
>>
>> This is massively incorrect for SLE HA. (drbd is part of the HA add-on,
>> not SLES.) We have absolutely no such plans, and will continue to
>> support drbd as part of our offerings.
>>
>> Where did you hear that?
>
> Don't know about RHEL but on Centos you get DRBD from ELRepo, not even
> EPEL, so I expect it has not been in the RHEL for quite some time.
> Unless RedHat's offering it as a separate add-on to their paying
> customers (but the last rumour I heard was they wouldn't do it 'cause
> they didn't want to share the loot with linbit).
>
> Dima

When RHEL 6 was released, Red Hat wanted to reduce their support
overhead a lot. So many things that used to be supported were dropped.
DRBD, unlike most other dropped programs, is still supported, just not
by RH directly. They worked out an agreement with LINBIT to allow
officially supported RHEL systems to be fully supported when they ran
DRBD. The agreement was that RHEL users who needed DRBD support
specifically would be routed to LINBIT for that support.

So though it's changed, it is still supported.

--
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
access to education?
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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 01/16/2015 11:19 AM, Digimer wrote:

> When RHEL 6 was released, Red Hat wanted to reduce their support
> overhead a lot. So many things that used to be supported were dropped.
> DRBD, unlike most other dropped programs, is still supported, just not
> by RH directly. They worked out an agreement with LINBIT to allow
> officially supported RHEL systems to be fully supported when they ran
> DRBD.

Ah, OK. We moved from RHEL to Centos a few years back so I'm not quite
up to date on official RedHat's offerings anymore. I do know they bought
ceph recently and now have their own shiny! cloudy! replicated iscsi
block device, so ...

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu
Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 16/01/15 01:50 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 01/16/2015 11:19 AM, Digimer wrote:
>
>> When RHEL 6 was released, Red Hat wanted to reduce their support
>> overhead a lot. So many things that used to be supported were dropped.
>> DRBD, unlike most other dropped programs, is still supported, just not
>> by RH directly. They worked out an agreement with LINBIT to allow
>> officially supported RHEL systems to be fully supported when they ran
>> DRBD.
>
> Ah, OK. We moved from RHEL to Centos a few years back so I'm not quite
> up to date on official RedHat's offerings anymore. I do know they bought
> ceph recently and now have their own shiny! cloudy! replicated iscsi
> block device, so ...

Two comments;

1. CentOS replicates RHEL, "warts and all". RHEL doesn't ship the DRBD
RPMs anymore (that comes from the support via LINBIT), so thus, the RPMs
aren't in CentOS, either.

2. DRBD is an HA technology, ceph/gluster are cloud technologies. Of
course there is overlap (specially when someone tries to hammer
solutions into place), but there really serve different use-cases. DRBD
excels (and I would argue is untouched) in it's ability to replicate
storage across two nodes, perfect for 90% of HA clusters. On the other
hand, from what I've gathered, ceph/gluster shine brightest when they're
on top of many nodes. Their goal is, first, scalability and resource
utilization. DRBD's is, first, data protection.

So I don't think (but I don't know) that Red Hat's decision was based on
an "we have our own shiny!) argument. I think that it was a case of
looking at the back-porting effort of supporting DRBD on the 2.6.32
kernel (drbd didn't go mainline until .33), looked at the potential
revenue vs cost, came up with a viable alternative for customers who
needed it and settled on that.

Again, my understanding only, I could be wrong.

--
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
access to education?
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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 01/16/2015 05:33 PM, Digimer wrote:

> 1. CentOS replicates RHEL, "warts and all".

Not exactly. E.g. gluster is a for-pay RHEL add-on. There's some kind of
gluster rpm in Centos but it's pretty much disfunctional: you have to
remove that, add the upstream gluster repo and get your gluster from there.

> 2. DRBD is an HA technology, ceph/gluster are cloud technologies.
...
> from what I've gathered, ceph/gluster shine brightest when they're
> on top of many nodes. Their goal is, first, scalability and resource
> utilization. DRBD's is, first, data protection.

More or less. IRL they apparently shine on top of a 10Gb network. Or
better, three 10Gb networks. DRBD works just fine over a crossover piece
of cat-5e.

> Again, my understanding only, I could be wrong.

Oh, it's a pure speculation on my part. Any resemblance to the actual
RedHat is purely coincidental and all that. ;)

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu
Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 16/01/15 07:29 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
> On 01/16/2015 05:33 PM, Digimer wrote:
>
>> 1. CentOS replicates RHEL, "warts and all".
>
> Not exactly. E.g. gluster is a for-pay RHEL add-on. There's some kind of
> gluster rpm in Centos but it's pretty much disfunctional: you have to
> remove that, add the upstream gluster repo and get your gluster from there.

I don't use gluster myself, so I can make no intelligent comment on
this. All I can say is that, in general, CentOS aims to repackage RHEL
RPMs exactly, then changes only trademarks. Gluster is, as I understand
it, fully open source so I can see no reason, from a general position,
why gluster's RPMs on CentOS should be treated any differently.

>> 2. DRBD is an HA technology, ceph/gluster are cloud technologies.
> ...
>> from what I've gathered, ceph/gluster shine brightest when they're
>> on top of many nodes. Their goal is, first, scalability and resource
>> utilization. DRBD's is, first, data protection.
>
> More or less. IRL they apparently shine on top of a 10Gb network. Or
> better, three 10Gb networks. DRBD works just fine over a crossover piece
> of cat-5e.

I use it extensively on both 1 Gbps copper (always through a switch) and
10 Gbps SFP+ (again, always through a switch). In all cases, I use dual
links in simple mode=1 (active/passive) bonding with each leg to a
different switch in a stacked pair.

In both cases, I can get replication speeds very very close to the
maximum the underlying network is capable of. So in this light, I am not
really sure what issues you might be referencing are. Can you expand on
your comments?

>> Again, my understanding only, I could be wrong.
>
> Oh, it's a pure speculation on my part. Any resemblance to the actual
> RedHat is purely coincidental and all that. ;)

:p

--
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
access to education?
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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 2015-01-16T16:25:15, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon, RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:

> I am glad to hear that SLE HA has no plans to drop support for DRBD.
>
> Unfortunately I currently cannot disclose who is spreading this false information.

Too bad. Do let them know they're quite wrong though ;-)


Regards,
Lars

--
Architect Storage/HA
SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Jennifer Guild, Dilip Upmanyu, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
"Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde

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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
On 1/16/2015 8:26 PM, Digimer wrote:

... CentOS aims to repackage RHEL
> RPMs exactly, then changes only trademarks. Gluster is, as I understand
> it, fully open source so I can see no reason, from a general position,
> why gluster's RPMs on CentOS should be treated any differently.

Because the straight open source RHEL gluster rpm does not include any
daemons. Those are RHEL's own, they are called "Red Hat Storage Server",
they are a for-pay "add-on" and so they are not in centos.

>> More or less. IRL they apparently shine on top of a 10Gb network. Or
>> better, three 10Gb networks. DRBD works just fine over a crossover piece
>> of cat-5e.
>
> I use it extensively on both 1 Gbps copper (always through a switch) and
> 10 Gbps SFP+ (again, always through a switch). In all cases, I use dual
> links in simple mode=1 (active/passive) bonding with each leg to a
> different switch in a stacked pair.
>
> In both cases, I can get replication speeds very very close to the
> maximum the underlying network is capable of. So in this light, I am not
> really sure what issues you might be referencing are. Can you expand on
> your comments?

What do you mean by "it"? If "it" is DRBD, I've several active/passive
pairs running it over cat5e crossover cable it shares with heartbeat.
I've no complaints about replication speeds either.

The 3x10Gbps was a reference to OpenStack, actually, now that I think
about it. Ceph just says 10Gb is "worth considering" and gluster sez
"oh, we could list a few success stories..." and then don't.

Dima

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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
> On 18 Jan 2015, at 3:45 am, Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.com> wrote:
>
> On 2015-01-16T16:25:15, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon, RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:
>
>> I am glad to hear that SLE HA has no plans to drop support for DRBD.
>>
>> Unfortunately I currently cannot disclose who is spreading this false information.
>
> Too bad. Do let them know they're quite wrong though ;-)

And ask them to stop repeating it.

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Re: Support for DRDB [ In reply to ]
> On 17 Jan 2015, at 4:19 am, Digimer <lists@alteeve.ca> wrote:
>
> On 16/01/15 10:43 AM, Dmitri Maziuk wrote:
>> On 1/16/2015 8:39 AM, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:
>>> On 2015-01-16T11:56:04, "EXTERNAL Konold Martin (erfrakon,
>> RtP2/TEF72)" <external.Martin.Konold@de.bosch.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been told that support for DRBD is supposed to be phased
>>>> out from both SLES and RHEL in the near future.
>>>
>>> This is massively incorrect for SLE HA. (drbd is part of the HA add-on,
>>> not SLES.) We have absolutely no such plans, and will continue to
>>> support drbd as part of our offerings.
>>>
>>> Where did you hear that?
>>
>> Don't know about RHEL but on Centos you get DRBD from ELRepo, not even
>> EPEL, so I expect it has not been in the RHEL for quite some time.
>> Unless RedHat's offering it as a separate add-on to their paying
>> customers (but the last rumour I heard was they wouldn't do it 'cause
>> they didn't want to share the loot with linbit).
>>
>> Dima
>
> When RHEL 6 was released, Red Hat wanted to reduce their support overhead a lot. So many things that used to be supported were dropped.

To my knowledge, DRBD was never actually supported.
Which would mean Red Hat's co-operation with Linbit has only ever increased over time - something I can't imagine changing.

> DRBD, unlike most other dropped programs, is still supported, just not by RH directly. They worked out an agreement with LINBIT to allow officially supported RHEL systems to be fully supported when they ran DRBD. The agreement was that RHEL users who needed DRBD support specifically would be routed to LINBIT for that support.
>
> So though it's changed, it is still supported.
>
> --
> Digimer
> Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
> What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without access to education?
> _______________________________________________
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