Mailing List Archive

OpenAIS, Heartbeat and Pacemaker: what exactly are they now?
Hi people:

I'm new in HA Clustering world. I started googling about HA clusters
and I met heartbeat with 1.x configuration examples (using
haresources).
I made some tests and worked OK, then googling again and reading posts
in this mailing list I read that 1.x configuration is deprecated so I
should use 2.x configuration that includes CRM based on cib.xml config
file.

Well I googled again and I found that heartbeat 2.1.4 was that lastest
version that included the CRM because that code is developed now by
the Pacemaker project.

OK, I googled again and started to make some test based on the
"Pacemaker configuration explained (February 2009 edition)" found at
clusterlabs.org and I'm having some troubles when adding some
resources (I will post asking for help about this later)...

While googling (again) for solutions I read that SLES 11 it was
recently released with HAE product. HAE now includes OpenAIS in
replacement of Heartbeat.
I googled again and found this:

https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/openais/2007-December/009506.html

I'm not an expert in clustering so I'm a little confused.I know that
Pacemaker develops the core of the Cluster: The CRM ¿right?, but I
read that pacemaker includes support for Heartbeat and OpenAIS
(they're choices right?).
So my questions are:

- What's exactly OpenAIS? I don't understand the information found in
its website
- How is OpenAIS related to Heartbeat and Pacemaker?
- OpenAIS is a total replacement for Heartbeat? If yes, which of those
is better or has a better future?
- If the previous if yes... so Will we need to abandon heartbeat
knowledge and learn OpenAIS? Will we need to move from this mailing
list to OpenAIS mailing list? :P

I hope someone can give me some basic explanation about these 3
components because I'm confused and a little worried about the Novell
decision to drop hearbeat for using OpenAIS.
So I would like to be sure to start learning (and googling again) a HA
Cluster solution that will the better and best maintained.


Thanks ha users, and sorry if my english sucks


P.D.: Red Hat doesn't include Heartbeat in its software media, but
OpenAIS does? I read something like that in an article
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Re: OpenAIS, Heartbeat and Pacemaker: what exactly are they now? [ In reply to ]
Best place to start is
http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Project_History followed
soon after by http://www.clusterlabs.org/mediawiki/images/f/fb/Configuration_Explained.pdf

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 01:47, Jose Perez <jvoorhees1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi people:
>
> I'm new in HA Clustering world. I started googling about HA clusters
> and I met heartbeat with 1.x configuration examples (using
> haresources).
> I made some tests and worked OK, then googling again and reading posts
> in this mailing list I read that 1.x configuration is deprecated so I
> should use 2.x configuration that includes CRM based on cib.xml config
> file.
>
> Well I googled again and I found that heartbeat 2.1.4 was that lastest
> version that included the CRM because that code is developed now by
> the Pacemaker project.
>
> OK, I googled again and started to make some test based on the
> "Pacemaker configuration explained (February 2009 edition)" found at
> clusterlabs.org and I'm having some troubles when adding some
> resources (I will post asking for help about this later)...
>
> While googling (again) for solutions I read that SLES 11 it was
> recently released with HAE product. HAE now includes OpenAIS in
> replacement of Heartbeat.
> I googled again and found this:
>
> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/openais/2007-December/009506.html
>
> I'm not an expert in clustering so I'm a little confused.I know that
> Pacemaker develops the core of the Cluster: The CRM ¿right?, but I
> read that pacemaker includes support for Heartbeat and OpenAIS
> (they're choices right?).

Correct.

> So my questions are:
>
> - What's exactly OpenAIS? I don't understand the information found in
> its website

A messaging and membership layer (just as heartbeat is).
It tells programs like Pacemaker which nodes are part of the cluster
and provides a way to send messages between them.
(I'm grossly oversimplifying things, but this is the general idea).

Pacemaker could do this itself, but getting it right is extremely
non-trivial and OpenAIS implements an industry standard for doing so.

Did you see this picture?
http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Architecture

> - How is OpenAIS related to Heartbeat and Pacemaker?

Its a replacement for Heartbeat based on industry standards and is one
of the (two) cluster stacks currently supported by Pacemaker.

> - OpenAIS is a total replacement for Heartbeat?

Not completely, see http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Architecture
There are still one or two pieces from Heartbeat (eg. the lrmd) that
are used with both stacks.

> If yes, which of those
> is better or has a better future?

My personal opinion is OpenAIS. Others may not share my views.

> - If the previous if yes... so Will we need to abandon heartbeat
> knowledge and learn OpenAIS? Will we need to move from this mailing
> list to OpenAIS mailing list? :P

Very little of the knowledge needs to be abandoned to switch from one
stack to the other.
The resource configuration is completely identical, only the initial
node setup changes (ha.cf vs. openais.conf).

> I hope someone can give me some basic explanation about these 3
> components because I'm confused and a little worried about the Novell
> decision to drop hearbeat for using OpenAIS.

No need to be concerned.
Instead be happy that Oracle, Red Hat and Novell are now all working
together on a common cluster infrastructure.

> So I would like to be sure to start learning (and googling again) a HA
> Cluster solution that will the better and best maintained.
>
>
> Thanks ha users, and sorry if my english sucks
>
>
> P.D.: Red Hat doesn't include Heartbeat in its software media, but
> OpenAIS does? I read something like that in an article

Red Hat includes OpenAIS and will "soon" be including Pacemaker.
My understanding is that they will allow you to choose either
Heartbeat or OpenAIS as the underlying stack (at least in Fedora) but
that they prefer OpenAIS - since that's what they actively develop and
use for their current cluster software.
_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA@lists.linux-ha.org
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
Re: OpenAIS, Heartbeat and Pacemaker: what exactly are they now? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 4:21 AM, Andrew Beekhof <beekhof@gmail.com> wrote:
> Best place to start is
> http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Project_History followed
> soon after by http://www.clusterlabs.org/mediawiki/images/f/fb/Configuration_Explained.pdf
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 01:47, Jose Perez <jvoorhees1@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi people:
>>
>> I'm new in HA Clustering world. I started googling about HA clusters
>> and I met heartbeat with 1.x configuration examples (using
>> haresources).
>> I made some tests and worked OK, then googling again and reading posts
>> in this mailing list I read that 1.x configuration is deprecated so I
>> should use 2.x configuration that includes CRM based on cib.xml config
>> file.
>>
>> Well I googled again and I found that heartbeat 2.1.4 was that lastest
>> version that included the CRM because that code is developed now by
>> the Pacemaker project.
>>
>> OK, I googled again and started to make some test based on the
>> "Pacemaker configuration explained (February 2009 edition)" found at
>> clusterlabs.org and I'm having some troubles when adding some
>> resources (I will post asking for help about this later)...
>>
>> While googling (again) for solutions I read that SLES 11 it was
>> recently released with HAE product. HAE now includes OpenAIS in
>> replacement of Heartbeat.
>> I googled again and found this:
>>
>> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/pipermail/openais/2007-December/009506.html
>>
>> I'm not an expert in clustering so I'm a little confused.I know that
>> Pacemaker develops the core of the Cluster: The CRM ¿right?, but I
>> read that pacemaker includes support for Heartbeat and OpenAIS
>> (they're choices right?).
>
> Correct.
>
>> So my questions are:
>>
>> - What's exactly OpenAIS? I don't understand the information found in
>> its website
>
> A messaging and membership layer (just as heartbeat is).
> It tells programs like Pacemaker which nodes are part of the cluster
> and provides a way to send messages between them.
> (I'm grossly oversimplifying things, but this is the general idea).
>
> Pacemaker could do this itself, but getting it right is extremely
> non-trivial and OpenAIS implements an industry standard for doing so.
>
> Did you see this picture?
> http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Architecture
>
>> - How is OpenAIS related to Heartbeat and Pacemaker?
>
> Its a replacement for Heartbeat based on industry standards and is one
> of the (two) cluster stacks currently supported by Pacemaker.
>
>> - OpenAIS is a total replacement for Heartbeat?
>
> Not completely, see http://www.clusterlabs.org/wiki/Main_Page#Architecture
> There are still one or two pieces from Heartbeat (eg. the lrmd) that
> are used with both stacks.
>
>> If yes, which of those
>> is better or has a better future?
>
> My personal opinion is OpenAIS.  Others may not share my views.
>
>> - If the previous if yes... so Will we need to abandon heartbeat
>> knowledge and learn OpenAIS? Will we need to move from this mailing
>> list to OpenAIS mailing list? :P
>
> Very little of the knowledge needs to be abandoned to switch from one
> stack to the other.
> The resource configuration is completely identical, only the initial
> node setup changes (ha.cf vs. openais.conf).
>
>> I hope someone can give me some basic explanation about these 3
>> components because I'm confused and a little worried about the Novell
>> decision to drop hearbeat for using OpenAIS.
>
> No need to be concerned.
> Instead be happy that Oracle, Red Hat and Novell are now all working
> together on a common cluster infrastructure.
>
>> So I would like to be sure to start learning (and googling again) a HA
>> Cluster solution that will the better and best maintained.
>>
>>
>> Thanks ha users, and sorry if my english sucks
>>
>>
>> P.D.: Red Hat doesn't include Heartbeat in its software media, but
>> OpenAIS does? I read something like that in an article
>
> Red Hat includes OpenAIS and will "soon" be including Pacemaker.
> My understanding is that they will allow you to choose either
> Heartbeat or OpenAIS as the underlying stack (at least in Fedora) but
> that they prefer OpenAIS - since that's what they actively develop and
> use for their current cluster software.

Thanks a lot for your reply, it was very helpful to me. Now I
understand what happens with these 3 components.

Just to finish with questions. Do you have any technical comparision
between OpenAIS and Heartbeat?


> _______________________________________________
> Linux-HA mailing list
> Linux-HA@lists.linux-ha.org
> http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
> See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
>
_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA@lists.linux-ha.org
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
Re: OpenAIS, Heartbeat and Pacemaker: what exactly are they now? [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 18:10, Jose Perez <jvoorhees1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to finish with questions. Do you have any technical comparision
> between OpenAIS and Heartbeat?

There was one, but I don't have it handy.
_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA@lists.linux-ha.org
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems