Mailing List Archive

net-irc/xchat
Hey list,

I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of weeks.
Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be resumed didn't come
true. As the code becomes more and more outdated, open unfixed security bugs
are present[1][2] and at some point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will
vanish from the tree I don't see any other option than removing xchat from the
tree.
I don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in replacement in
form of the net-irc/hexchat fork.
I checked this today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy
over the xchat config:
mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat

I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one you'd like
to share with me ;)
Furthermore I would shift my attention from the xchat package to hexchat
seeing that it currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd
like to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the package
in portage.

I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
documentation about portage news?

Regards


[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657
[2] https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006
--
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On 11/25/2012 12:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> documentation about portage news?

There's a nice little set of instructions here:

http://gentoo-pr.org/node/16

The news repository is in git these days:

http://sources.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/gentoo-news.git;a=summary
--
Thanks,
Zac
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
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Hash: SHA1

On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> Hey list,
>
> I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of
> weeks. Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be
> resumed didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more
> outdated, open unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some
> point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I
> don't see any other option than removing xchat from the tree. I
> don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in
> replacement in form of the net-irc/hexchat fork. I checked this
> today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy
> over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
>
> I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one
> you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> package in portage.
>
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as
> soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to
> hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help
> concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage
> news?
>
> Regards
>
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657 [2]
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006

That's a pity. I was just about to step forward to rescue
net-irc/xchat-xsys from treecleaning.

Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?

Maybe we could just hardmask it. I see some ebuilds in the tree being
hardmasked due to security bugs, but not removed which is ok to me.
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Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 22:03:03 schrieb hasufell:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> > Hey list,
> >
> > I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of
> > weeks. Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be
> > resumed didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more
> > outdated, open unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some
> > point in the future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I
> > don't see any other option than removing xchat from the tree. I
> > don't see this as a big drama as we already have a drop-in
> > replacement in form of the net-irc/hexchat fork. I checked this
> > today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat and then copy
> > over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> > ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
> >
> > I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have one
> > you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> > attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> > currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> > to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> > package in portage.
> >
> > I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as
> > soon as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to
> > hexchat. As I never did this before I'd like to have some help
> > concerning this matter. Is there some documentation about portage
> > news?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/394657 [2]
> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/257006
>
> That's a pity. I was just about to step forward to rescue
> net-irc/xchat-xsys from treecleaning.

How about migrating xchat-xsys to hexchat?

> Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?

That's something for me to find out as well. I maintain the xchat-otr plugin
which I would like to continue using in hexchat.

> Maybe we could just hardmask it. I see some ebuilds in the tree being
> hardmasked due to security bugs, but not removed which is ok to me.

--
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
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Hash: SHA1

>

>> Do xchat plugins work in hexchat?
>
> That's something for me to find out as well. I maintain the
> xchat-otr plugin which I would like to continue using in hexchat.
>

just tested xchat-xsys on hexchat and it does work, all commands afais
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Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> documentation about portage news?

use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
-mike
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>> documentation about portage news?
>
> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> -mike
>

I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
just the vdb.
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
Am Sonntag 25 November 2012, 17:26:30 schrieb Mike Gilbert:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon
> >> as I lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I
> >> never did this before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter.
> >> Is there some documentation about portage news?
> >
> > use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> > -mike
>
> I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> just the vdb.

Indeed. I also think that a pkg-move cannot be done here.

--
Lars Wendler (Polynomial-C)
Gentoo package maintainer and bug-wrangler
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
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Hash: SHA1

On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> Hey list,
>
> I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of weeks.
> Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be resumed
> didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more outdated, open
> unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some point in the
> future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I don't see any
> other option than removing xchat from the tree. I don't see this as
> a big drama as we already have a drop-in replacement in form of the
> net-irc/hexchat fork.
Hello, I'd have to mention, as HexChat is a fork from XChat it strictly
depends on gtk+-2 as well. So removing gtk+-2* will make HexChat
unusuable (at least the GUI). Also there are no plans on porting it to
anything like gtk+-3 (or Qt (I have to say I'd love that)).
> I checked this today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat
> and then copy over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
Since hexchat-2.9.4 they also have to move their xchat.conf file to
hexchat.conf (this reminder message displays after emerge).
>
> I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have
> one you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> package in portage.
Unfortunately I have some bad news here. The same way XChat's
development died some time ago (with the exception of some critical
patches here and there), HexChat's development has met a wall. The only
active developer has quit the project. I hope this does not mean the end
of the project as there are a couple of contributors who seem interested
in further developing HexChat (they have write access to hexchat's
github repo so further versions will depend on them).

Answering some questions already on this topic, hexchat has it's own
system info script, so xchat-sys is pointless for hexchat (although it
might work - yes, or what hasufell saw was the built-in working and
not the xchat-xsys plugin).

Also, since hexchat-2.9.4 there is no more tcl/lua support. All other
plugins are supported without issues.
There's only one thing to be noted here, there are some perl/python
plugins which make use of "xchat packages". Which means that, if you
see something like this: "package Xchat::" inside your plugin you have
to remove that line, otherwise hexchat won't be able to load the script.



Regards,
Denis M.

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Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On 11/25/2012 09:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> Hey list,
>
> I'm planning to lastrite net-irc/xchat in the next couple of weeks.
> Unfortunately my hope that upstream development would be resumed
> didn't come true. As the code becomes more and more outdated, open
> unfixed security bugs are present[1][2] and at some point in the
> future =x11-libs/gtk+-2* will vanish from the tree I don't see any
> other option than removing xchat from the tree. I don't see this as
> a big drama as we already have a drop-in replacement in form of the
> net-irc/hexchat fork.
Hello, I'd have to mention, as HexChat is a fork from XChat it strictly
depends on gtk+-2 as well. So removing gtk+-2* will make HexChat
unusuable (at least the GUI). Also there are no plans on porting it to
anything like gtk+-3 (or Qt (I have to say I'd love that)).
> I checked this today and all people have to do is emerge hexchat
> and then copy over the xchat config: mkdir ${HOME}/.config ; cp -a
> ${HOME}/.xchat2 ${HOME}/.config/hexchat
Since hexchat-2.9.4 they also have to move their xchat.conf file to
hexchat.conf (this reminder message displays after emerge).
>
> I'd like to see your opinion on this matter as long as you have
> one you'd like to share with me ;) Furthermore I would shift my
> attention from the xchat package to hexchat seeing that it
> currently gets proxy maintained. If there's no objection I'd like
> to become the new contact of the person currently maintaining the
> package in portage.
Unfortunately I have some bad news here. The same way XChat's
development died some time ago (with the exception of some critical
patches here and there), HexChat's development has met a wall. The only
active developer has quit the project. I hope this does not mean the end
of the project as there are a couple of contributors who seem interested
in further developing HexChat (they have write access to hexchat's
github repo so further versions will depend on them).

Answering some questions already on this topic, hexchat has it's own
system info script, so xchat-sys is pointless for hexchat (although it
might work - yes, or what hasufell saw was the built-in working and
not the xchat-xsys plugin).

Also, since hexchat-2.9.4 there is no more tcl/lua support. All other
plugins are supported without issues.
There's only one thing to be noted here, there are some perl/python
plugins which make use of "xchat packages". Which means that, if you
see something like this: "package Xchat::" inside your plugin you have
to remove that line, otherwise hexchat won't be able to load the script.



Regards,
Denis M.
Re: Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On 11/26/2012 12:40 AM, Denis M. (Phr33d0m) wrote:
> Hello, I'd have to mention, as HexChat is a fork from XChat it strictly
> depends on gtk+-2 as well. So removing gtk+-2* will make HexChat
> unusuable (at least the GUI). Also there are no plans on porting it to
> anything like gtk+-3 (or Qt (I have to say I'd love that)).
That part is a non issue imo. GTK2 will not be deprecated anytime soon
as many many apps still use it.

> Answering some questions already on this topic, hexchat has it's own
> system info script, so xchat-sys is pointless for hexchat (although it
> might work - yes, or what hasufell saw was the built-in working and
> not the xchat-xsys plugin).
>
Just fyi, I was testing xchat-xsys and the internal system info plugin
is derived from that one. So yes, we would not need it anyway.


At least we don't seem to have those security issues for hexchat.
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>>> documentation about portage news?
>>
>> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
>
> I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> just the vdb.

... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
-mike
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> >>> documentation about portage news?
> >>
> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> >
> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> > just the vdb.
>
> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`

Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?

/me hides...

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
>> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
>> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
>> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
>> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
>> >>> documentation about portage news?
>> >>
>> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
>> >
>> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
>> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
>> > just the vdb.
>>
>> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
>
> Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?

i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants
to upgrade from xchat to hexchat
-mike
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:07:53 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 04:18:40 -0500 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> >> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Lars Wendler wrote:
> >> >>> I also planned to release a news through the portage news system as soon as I
> >> >>> lastrite xchat so people know how to move over to hexchat. As I never did this
> >> >>> before I'd like to have some help concerning this matter. Is there some
> >> >>> documentation about portage news?
> >> >>
> >> >> use profiles/updates/ to move xchat to hexchat ...
> >> >
> >> > I don't think a package move is appropriate since the two packages
> >> > install different files. The installed files would not be updated,
> >> > just the vdb.
> >>
> >> ... which portage will happily "upgrade" next time you `emerge -u world`
> >
> > Hmm, like 'move sys-fs/udev sys-apps/systemd'?
>
> i think the difference here is that we all agree that everyone wants
> to upgrade from xchat to hexchat

Maybe. On the other hand, the udev->systemd switch was performed
upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move.

xchat & hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that
the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are
equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out).

IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration
by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all. It's rather
confusing when 'xchat' instantly becomes 'hexchat' which it is actually
not before the rebuild. And after the rebuild user suffers the usual
upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions.

So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor
goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename
or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those,
package.mask messages are much better.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
> xchat & hexchat are different packages. It's a bit like pretending that
> the discontinuation and fork didn't ever happen, and the packages are
> equivalent (which they are not, as have been already pointed out).

they're about as equivalent as you're going to get. a few plugins
don't work, but not a big deal. the config file formats are also
largely compatible.

> IMO considering the fact that user needs to migrate his configuration
> by hand, making the switch automagic is not helpful at all.

yeah, i don't think so. that's like saying "since i have to turn the
steering wheel anyways when driving a car, there's no point in power
steering".

> And after the rebuild user suffers the usual
> upgrade pain of packages changing heavily between versions.

which is irrelevant to the suggestion at hand

> So, please do not hack the updates mechanism around to achieve minor
> goals. It should be used to move packages which suffered a rename
> or merge, not to provide replacements and suggestions. For those,
> package.mask messages are much better.

the inability to "make" users read the package.mask message explaining
the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail.

along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
-mike
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.

So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will
need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in
use), and the only notice will be in an elog? Oh, and that elog will
appear for a program called "hexchat" which as far as the user is
aware they don't even use.

This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I
don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give
them too much warning when we're about to break their systems. We
really should be using news more, and not less.

Rich
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On 11/26/2012 01:16 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
>
> So, users will just suddenly have their binary change names, and will
> need to manually move config files and update logrotate.d files (if in
> use), and the only notice will be in an elog? Oh, and that elog will
> appear for a program called "hexchat" which as far as the user is
> aware they don't even use.
>
> This really seems to be stretching the purpose of package moves, and I
> don't hear users generally complaining about the fact that we give
> them too much warning when we're about to break their systems. We
> really should be using news more, and not less.

We can do what we do for mplayer2 and soon mpv.

If the program is largely the same adding compatibility symlinks seems
to me the simplest solution.

lu
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:17:13 +0100
Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Maybe. On the other hand, the udev->systemd switch was performed
> upstream which makes it a valid candidate for package move.

No, it's not a valid candidate for a package move if the destination
package already exists. A "move" is specifically for a rename, not for
merging two existing packages together.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 5:33 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.
>
> So, users will just move config in an elog? Oh, and they don't even use.

see what happens when you delete context ? it no longer makes sense.
if you read my reply in whole, it'd be clear that i was agreeing with
Michał about the package.mask route *which would then make the need
for a news entry pointless*.
-mike
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 05:33:15AM -0500, Mike Frysinger wrote
>
> the inability to "make" users read the package.mask message explaining
> the situation is the only valid point in your e-mail.
>
> along those lines, a news entry is probably not even necessary.

Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped? I
vaguely remember "emerge --update --deep world" stopping with a message
that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested
in the message.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes@waltdnes.org>
Re: net-irc/xchat [ In reply to ]
On 26/11/2012 10:17, Walter Dnes wrote:
> Howsabout following the same procedure as when xpdf was dropped? I
> vaguely remember "emerge --update --deep world" stopping with a message
> that xpdf was being dropped, and also a few alternatives were suggested
> in the message.

That's the p.maks message.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
flameeyes@flameeyes.eu — http://blog.flameeyes.eu/