Mailing List Archive

autoreply / mailing-lists
Hi Paul

how is the native autoreply of dbmail acting in case of mailing.lists?
since they contain a "Mailing-List" header and mailman usually
"Precedence: list" i guess it would be not too complicated to supress
replies in such cases?

not a big thing, but maybe a sort of polish

> Mailing-List: contact mysql-help@lists.mysql.com; run by ezmlm

Regards
Harry

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Out of office replies
Datum: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 22:28:32 +1000
Von: Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net>
An: mysql@lists.mysql.com

People, most of you are/should be professionals.

It is about time your mail servers were configured to never send "out of office" bullshit replies in response to
mailing list messages.
I realise this is difficult here and is oracles fault for running an abandonware mail server (qmail) and antiquated
list server (ezmlm) that fails to send Precedence headers, but come on now, do your part since oracle have no clue,
I mean you don't want your mail servers entered into DNSBL's now do you...

/rant
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
hm, should we not respect

* Precedence: bulk
* Auto-Submitted: auto-generated

after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a

in dbmail-autoreply?

today/tonight i added both headers to our lib which generates
newsletters and other automated messages - dbmail still sends
a reply to such messages, i guess the intention of this
headers in the above commit is to prevent other servers
sending replies to us :-)

Am 09.04.2012 14:47, schrieb Reindl Harald:
> Hi Paul
>
> how is the native autoreply of dbmail acting in case of mailing.lists?
> since they contain a "Mailing-List" header and mailman usually
> "Precedence: list" i guess it would be not too complicated to supress
> replies in such cases?
>
> not a big thing, but maybe a sort of polish
>
>> Mailing-List: contact mysql-help@lists.mysql.com; run by ezmlm
>
> Regards
> Harry
>
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Betreff: Out of office replies
> Datum: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 22:28:32 +1000
> Von: Noel Butler <noel.butler@ausics.net>
> An: mysql@lists.mysql.com
>
> People, most of you are/should be professionals.
>
> It is about time your mail servers were configured to never send "out of office" bullshit replies in response to
> mailing list messages.
> I realise this is difficult here and is oracles fault for running an abandonware mail server (qmail) and antiquated
> list server (ezmlm) that fails to send Precedence headers, but come on now, do your part since oracle have no clue,
> I mean you don't want your mail servers entered into DNSBL's now do you...
>
> /rant
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> DBmail mailing list
> DBmail@dbmail.org
> http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail

--

Mit besten Grüßen, Reindl Harald
the lounge interactive design GmbH
A-1060 Vienna, Hofmühlgasse 17
CTO / software-development / cms-solutions
p: +43 (1) 595 3999 33, m: +43 (676) 40 221 40
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Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
On 04/09/2012 02:47 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> how is the native autoreply of dbmail acting in case of mailing.lists?
> since they contain a "Mailing-List" header and mailman usually
> "Precedence: list" i guess it would be not too complicated to supress
> replies in such cases?

No reply to mailinglists should ever be generated, provided the
mailinglist is configured properly.

It's very simple: only if and when one of the addresses in the To or Cc
headers is a valid alias for the recipient, a reply is ever sent.

Since mailinglists normally never specify the recipient in the To or Cc
- they use the envelope - no reply to mailinglists is sent.

Are there mailinglist servers that use the To/Cc headers??


--
________________________________________________________________
Paul J Stevens pjstevns @ gmail, twitter, skype, linkedin

* Premium Hosting Services and Web Application Consultancy *

www.nfg.nl/info@nfg.nl/+31.85.877.99.97
________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@dbmail.org
http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
On 04/10/2012 02:54 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> hm, should we not respect
>
> * Precedence: bulk
> * Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
>
> after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a
>
> in dbmail-autoreply?

Maybe we should ignore messages with Precedence: bulk as an additional
restriction.

>
> today/tonight i added both headers to our lib which generates
> newsletters and other automated messages - dbmail still sends
> a reply to such messages, i guess the intention of this
> headers in the above commit is to prevent other servers
> sending replies to us :-)

Don't use the To or Cc header for such messages. Use the envelope.

Or in PHP terms: never use 'mail' (which sucks for many reasons), but
use the Pear::Net_SMTP package.



--
________________________________________________________________
Paul J Stevens pjstevns @ gmail, twitter, skype, linkedin

* Premium Hosting Services and Web Application Consultancy *

www.nfg.nl/info@nfg.nl/+31.85.877.99.97
________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@dbmail.org
http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
Am 10.04.2012 09:05, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
> On 04/09/2012 02:47 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> Hi Paul
>>
>> how is the native autoreply of dbmail acting in case of mailing.lists?
>> since they contain a "Mailing-List" header and mailman usually
>> "Precedence: list" i guess it would be not too complicated to supress
>> replies in such cases?
>
> No reply to mailinglists should ever be generated, provided the
> mailinglist is configured properly.
>
> It's very simple: only if and when one of the addresses in the To or Cc
> headers is a valid alias for the recipient, a reply is ever sent.
>
> Since mailinglists normally never specify the recipient in the To or Cc
> - they use the envelope - no reply to mailinglists is sent.
>
> Are there mailinglist servers that use the To/Cc headers??

i fear there is every sort of wrong crap out there
(se the mail to the mysql-list in my previous message)

in 2009 i was temporary removed from some mailing-lists as
i had a dbmail-autoreply for a longer time due medical
operation and becasue i receive many mailing-lists since
then i personally never activated a autoreply for my address
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
Am 10.04.2012 09:10, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
> On 04/10/2012 02:54 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>> hm, should we not respect
>>
>> * Precedence: bulk
>> * Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
>>
>> after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a
>>
>> in dbmail-autoreply?
>
> Maybe we should ignore messages with Precedence: bulk as an additional
> restriction.

and to be sure "Precedence: list"

>> today/tonight i added both headers to our lib which generates
>> newsletters and other automated messages - dbmail still sends
>> a reply to such messages, i guess the intention of this
>> headers in the above commit is to prevent other servers
>> sending replies to us :-)
>
> Don't use the To or Cc header for such messages. Use the envelope.
>
> Or in PHP terms: never use 'mail' (which sucks for many reasons), but
> use the Pear::Net_SMTP package.

in never used mail() in my life, the function himself
is explicitly forbidden on all servers maintained by me
since 2003 :-)

http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/p/phpmailer/downloads/list

below a message source which would currently trigger
a reply for "h.reindl@thelounge.net" where i would
say the headers state clearly not to do so
_______________________

Received: from arrakis.thelounge.net (arrakis.thelounge.net [10.0.0.6])
by mail.thelounge.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964FEB4
for <h.reindl@thelounge.net>; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:22:29 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 09:22:29 +0200
To: h.reindl@thelounge.net
From: Harry <harry@rhsoft.net>
Subject: Test
Message-ID: <213d5b5014c070a41e48bd23390270a5316401a81334042549@arrakis.thelounge.net>
X-Received: 10.0.0.241 (openvpn-rh.thelounge.net) on panel.thelounge.net by
HTTP
Precedence: bulk
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
MIME-Version: 1.0
Return-Path: harry@rhsoft.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Mail-Header-Test
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
On 04/10/2012 09:25 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
>
> Am 10.04.2012 09:10, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
>> On 04/10/2012 02:54 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> hm, should we not respect
>>>
>>> * Precedence: bulk
>>> * Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
>>>
>>> after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a
>>>
>>> in dbmail-autoreply?
>>
>> Maybe we should ignore messages with Precedence: bulk as an additional
>> restriction.
>
> and to be sure "Precedence: list"

done.


--
________________________________________________________________
Paul J Stevens pjstevns @ gmail, twitter, skype, linkedin

* Premium Hosting Services and Web Application Consultancy *

www.nfg.nl/info@nfg.nl/+31.85.877.99.97
________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________
DBmail mailing list
DBmail@dbmail.org
http://mailman.fastxs.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dbmail
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
Am 10.04.2012 09:34, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
> On 04/10/2012 09:25 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 10.04.2012 09:10, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
>>> On 04/10/2012 02:54 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>> hm, should we not respect
>>>>
>>>> * Precedence: bulk
>>>> * Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
>>>>
>>>> after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a
>>>>
>>>> in dbmail-autoreply?
>>>
>>> Maybe we should ignore messages with Precedence: bulk as an additional
>>> restriction.
>>
>> and to be sure "Precedence: list"
>
> done

http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=5c2e221fadbcb77e059723f963e8cd32958bc434

verified and deployed
thank you!

P.S.:
the problem with sort by date in roundcube is definitly
solved with the patch from friday - thank you again!
Re: autoreply / mailing-lists [ In reply to ]
Am 10.04.2012 11:29, schrieb Reindl Harald:
> Am 10.04.2012 09:34, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
>> On 04/10/2012 09:25 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 10.04.2012 09:10, schrieb Paul J Stevens:
>>>> On 04/10/2012 02:54 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>>> hm, should we not respect
>>>>>
>>>>> * Precedence: bulk
>>>>> * Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
>>>>>
>>>>> after http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=7216ea4732dc0ad5eb66c76e378af3ea7a34ba4a
>>>>>
>>>>> in dbmail-autoreply?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we should ignore messages with Precedence: bulk as an additional
>>>> restriction.
>>>
>>> and to be sure "Precedence: list"
>>
>> done
>
> http://git.dbmail.eu/paul/dbmail/commit/?id=5c2e221fadbcb77e059723f963e8cd32958bc434
>
> verified and deployed
> thank you!
>
> P.S.:
> the problem with sort by date in roundcube is definitly
> solved with the patch from friday - thank you again!

maybe we should add "Auto-Submitted: auto-generated" too
below mail headers of a standard cron-message if any
per crond called script makes output
__________________

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Subject: Cron <root@rh> php /usr/local/scripts/rh_watchdog.php
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X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin>
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Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2012 12:15:01 +0200 (CEST)
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