Mailing List Archive

A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users
I've been a MythTV user for nearly ten years now. I'm also lucky enough to have some UNIX admin skills. I pity the poor
MythTV-er who doesn't have a very broad range of skills with UNIX and programming in general.

I had to upgrade my whole system this week owing to some failed hardware and I really hoped that it would be as simple as:
1. Install a recent Linux distribution (I chose the latest Mint, Maya)
2. Download, compile and install the MythTV distribution
3. Re-do the mythtv-setup
4. Get back to enjoying MythTV

Instead, it has now taken me nearly two days solid work to get all the issues ironed out - and I still have one or two.
I've had problems ranging from the compilation bombing out with strange linux header version mis-matches to the frontend
crashing as soon as I tried to watch anything.

I urge everyone building and writing doco for MythTV to please consider the long suffering users.

For example, one of my main problems was with the sound. After hunting through masses of errors , stracing the frontend,
etc. I finally found it was down to one thing: I hadn't installed the ALSA firmware software package.

The starting point for any MythTV documentation should be a _complete_ list of packages needing to be added to the
standard distributions before most of it will work successfully. Here's my list to be getting on with:

*
xmltv
*
mysql-server
*
libqt3-mt
*
libqt3-mt-dev
*
libmp3lame0
*
libmp3lame-dev
*
x11proto-video-dev0
*
libxxf86vm-dev
*
libgl1-mesa-dev
*
ffmpeg
*
libqt3-mt-mysql
*
php5-mysql
*
python-mysqldb (For archiving, burning DVDs)
*
mjpegtools (For archiving, burning DVDs)
*
libnet-upnp-perl
*
yasm
*
libmysql-devel
*
mythtv-python
*
libqt4-sql-mysql
*
libasound2-dev

Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
Martin

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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
>
> *
> xmltv
> *
> mysql-server
> *
> libqt3-mt
> *
> libqt3-mt-dev
> *
> libmp3lame0
> *
> libmp3lame-dev
> *
> x11proto-video-dev0
> *
> libxxf86vm-dev
> *
> libgl1-mesa-dev
> *
> ffmpeg
> *
> libqt3-mt-mysql
> *
> php5-mysql
> *
> python-mysqldb (For archiving, burning DVDs)
> *
> mjpegtools (For archiving, burning DVDs)
> *
> libnet-upnp-perl
> *
> yasm
> *
> libmysql-devel
> *
> mythtv-python
> *
> libqt4-sql-mysql
> *
> libasound2-dev
>
> Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Martin

Why did you compile it yourself?

Why didn't you just install from the repos using apt-get and all the
dependencies would have been picked up?
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On 12-08-07 05:13 AM, Another Sillyname wrote:
>
> Why did you compile it yourself?

Indeed. I wondered the exact same thing myself.

> Why didn't you just install from the repos using apt-get and all the
> dependencies would have been picked up?

OP's complaint comes off sounding like:

I've been an automobile driver for nearly ten years now. I'm also lucky
enough to have some auto-mechanic skills. I pity the poor
automobile driver who doesn't have a very broad range of skills with
building cars and auto-mechanics in general.

Of course, everyone's answer to that is "if building your own automobile
is no fun, and indeed such a pain for you, why don't you just go and get
one of them already built for you?".

Mythbuntu for example is an entire Linux distribution including Mythtv.
[.I presume -- I am absolutely certain I will be corrected if I am
wrong] you pop the install medium into your machine, boot it, go for
coffee and (roughly) come back to a working Mythtv machine.

Cheers,
b.
Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:13:22AM +0100, Another Sillyname wrote:
> >

[myth build dependencies]

> > Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
> > Martin
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> Martin
>
> Why did you compile it yourself?
>
> Why didn't you just install from the repos using apt-get and all the
> dependencies would have been picked up?

Alternatively "apt-get build-dep" would achieve much the same thing.
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
Well that what Linux is all about it only installs what you want. You can
avoid issues by geting MythTV distro.
On Aug 7, 2012 7:37 AM, "jedi" <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:13:22AM +0100, Another Sillyname wrote:
> > >
>
> [myth build dependencies]
>
> > > Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > mythtv-users mailing list
> > > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
> > Martin
> >
> > Why did you compile it yourself?
> >
> > Why didn't you just install from the repos using apt-get and all the
> > dependencies would have been picked up?
>
> Alternatively "apt-get build-dep" would achieve much the same thing.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 07:40:08AM -0600, jacek burghardt wrote:
> Well that what Linux is all about it only installs what you want. You can
> avoid issues by geting MythTV distro.

In practice, there is very little difference between such a distribution
and a normal one where a single extra apt-get command has been invoked.

That's one of the more nifty features of Linux.

> On Aug 7, 2012 7:37 AM, "jedi" <jedi@mishnet.org> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:13:22AM +0100, Another Sillyname wrote:
> > > >
> >
> > [myth build dependencies]
> >
> > > > Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
> > > > Martin
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > mythtv-users mailing list
> > > > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > > > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > >
> > > Martin
> > >
> > > Why did you compile it yourself?
> > >
> > > Why didn't you just install from the repos using apt-get and all the
> > > dependencies would have been picked up?
> >
> > Alternatively "apt-get build-dep" would achieve much the same thing.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >

> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
Hi

On Tuesday, 7 August 2012, Martin Brown wrote:

>
> The starting point for any MythTV documentation should be a _complete_
> list of packages needing to be added to the
> standard distributions before most of it will work successfully. Here's my
> list to be getting on with:
>
> *
> xmltv
> *
> mysql-server
> *
> libqt3-mt
> *
> libqt3-mt-dev
> *
>
> libqt3-mt-mysql
> *
>
> Thanks for 10 years of MythTV!
> Martin
>
>
>
That list would have been a good start 10 years ago. However, myth moved to
using qt 4 from version 0.22 , released 3 years ago.

I can certainly imagine your issues compiling mythtv when you don't even
use the right version of qt.

As mentioned, doing sudo apt-get build-dep mythtv would have installed all
you needed to build

What about sudo apt-get install mythtv
Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 06:49:41PM +1000, Martin Brown wrote:
> I've been a MythTV user for nearly ten years now. I'm also lucky enough to have some UNIX admin skills. I pity the poor
> MythTV-er who doesn't have a very broad range of skills with UNIX and programming in general.
>
> I had to upgrade my whole system this week owing to some failed hardware and I really hoped that it would be as simple as:
> 1. Install a recent Linux distribution (I chose the latest Mint, Maya)
> 2. Download, compile and install the MythTV distribution
> 3. Re-do the mythtv-setup
> 4. Get back to enjoying MythTV

Here's what I did recently after a major hardware failure:

1. Install Debian stable.
2. Add a mirror of the deb-multimedia repo (one line add in /etc/apt/sources.list)
3. apt-get update; apt-get install mythtv
4. load my database from backup
5. redo my lirc remote settings
6. run mythtv-setup, deleting all recorders and sources, then
putting them back again
7. set up the window manager to autologin and start mythfrontend
8. enjoy MythTV

-dsr-
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
If you ever wondered why, despite all of its advantages, Linux has never
taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this thread.

... and so now let the flames fly!

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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
>> Linux has never taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this thread.

I can't speak for everybody else, but I've never wanted it to.

Doug


--
Ben Franklin quote:

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 12:14:03PM -0500, Joe Henley wrote:
> If you ever wondered why, despite all of its advantages, Linux has
> never taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this
> thread.

MythTV can be installed like some iPhone app with everything it
needs including the things that you would need to download "Shark007"
for on Windows and somehow this is supposed to be an example of the
"but if only we did things right" fallacy?
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
> On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 12:14:03PM -0500, Joe Henley wrote:
> > If you ever wondered why, despite all of its advantages, Linux has
> > never taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this
> > thread.
>
> MythTV can be installed like some iPhone app with everything it
> needs including the things that you would need to download "Shark007"
> for on Windows and somehow this is supposed to be an example of the
> "but if only we did things right" fallacy?


I don't think he is trying to suggest that something is wrong with Linux...
its the users who make it more complicated than it needs to be. At least
that's what I hope he was trying to say.
Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Joseph Fry <joe@thefrys.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 07, 2012 at 12:14:03PM -0500, Joe Henley wrote:
>> > If you ever wondered why, despite all of its advantages, Linux has
>> > never taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this
>> > thread.
>>
>> MythTV can be installed like some iPhone app with everything it
>> needs including the things that you would need to download "Shark007"
>> for on Windows and somehow this is supposed to be an example of the
>> "but if only we did things right" fallacy?
>
>
> I don't think he is trying to suggest that something is wrong with Linux...
> its the users who make it more complicated than it needs to be. At least
> that's what I hope he was trying to say.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I was in the middle of a response, but if that is what he is trying to
say then I would half agree. I know users that have made it way harder
to do something than it actually is (but heck, that happens on Windows
too)

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On 7 August 2012 18:14, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> If you ever wondered why, despite all of its advantages, Linux has never
> taken over the desktop, all you need to do is read this thread.
>
> ... and so now let the flames fly!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

and yet I can imagine the upcoming Windows 8 support calls......

"You need to touch the 2nd square on your laptop screen Sir"

in a confused voice "But my screen doesn't do anything when I touch it"

"I'm sorry Sir I'm afraid in that case you've made a mistake in the
choice of your hardware platform and need to take it up with your
vendor.....Goodbye"
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
Well, first off, thanks for the (much more so than I expected...) gentle
replies.

And since there's some uncertainty as to the "meaning" of my brief
comment, let me clarify. While I hesitate to try to explain another
person's comments, I'll explain what I got from the OP's note. He's a
fan of Myth; been at it for ten years. He has some Unix admin and
related coding skills; he's ahead of most users (but I'd guess he
probably doesn't think he's ahead of most Myth developers). He's having
problems with a Myth install and thinks that if he's having problems,
then many, many users will too. He says that one of the things which
would help him is complete documentation (and my little add-on would be
"current and thorough"); and it would obviously help those users who are
less skilled than he.

(Martin, sorry if I've missed your point.)

There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
please_ to help him install a product which he likes.

So now for the point of my note. We've told the OP to F'off. We didn't
answer his request. Some of us were sarcastic about his approach; some
condescending. Some of us displayed out 'nix proficiency with "apt-get
this" or "doda sqat that." None of us answered his very reasonable
request.

If you doubt my dark perspective on the thread, re-read it. It is not
"customer friendly." (I'd call it "customer hostile," but since you've
been "gentle" with me, I'll be so as well).

Oh, and why do we need to be "customer friendly"? The answer to that is
why I struck the analogy to Linux on the desktop.

(Martin, sorry for stealing your thread.)




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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.

The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.

Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
20+ dependencies.

-Ryan
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> Well, first off, thanks for the (much more so than I expected...) gentle
> replies.
>
> And since there's some uncertainty as to the "meaning" of my brief comment,
> let me clarify. While I hesitate to try to explain another person's
> comments, I'll explain what I got from the OP's note. He's a fan of Myth;
> been at it for ten years. He has some Unix admin and related coding skills;
> he's ahead of most users (but I'd guess he probably doesn't think he's ahead
> of most Myth developers). He's having problems with a Myth install and
> thinks that if he's having problems, then many, many users will too. He
> says that one of the things which would help him is complete documentation
> (and my little add-on would be "current and thorough"); and it would
> obviously help those users who are less skilled than he.
>
> (Martin, sorry if I've missed your point.)
>
> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
>
> So now for the point of my note. We've told the OP to F'off. We didn't
> answer his request. Some of us were sarcastic about his approach; some
> condescending. Some of us displayed out 'nix proficiency with "apt-get
> this" or "doda sqat that." None of us answered his very reasonable request.
> If you doubt my dark perspective on the thread, re-read it. It is not
> "customer friendly." (I'd call it "customer hostile," but since you've been
> "gentle" with me, I'll be so as well).
>
> Oh, and why do we need to be "customer friendly"? The answer to that is why
> I struck the analogy to Linux on the desktop.
>
> (Martin, sorry for stealing your thread.)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Dan Ritter listed the 8 steps on what he needed to do to get a working
system. Numerous other people have explained one way or another why he
was doing it the hard way. Sometimes you need to read between the
lines and see what the user is wants to accomplish, not what they are
asking. I've been playing in the dirt since I was a small boy, but if
I ask an excavator how to dig out a foundation with a spoon I would
expect him to tell me I'm doing it wrong.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
>> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
>> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
>
> The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
> not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
> mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
> instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
> dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
> developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.
>
> Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
> ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
> 20+ dependencies.

I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
install the latest Mythbuntu.

From those suggestions, what would be the expected result from using
'apt-get ....' on my Gentoo system for example - yup, got it in one -
" -bash: apt-get: command not found"

In other words, Linux != Mythbuntu, even for a MythTV install.



--
Robin Gilks



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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
>>
>> Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
>> ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
>> 20+ dependencies.
>
> I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
> installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
> install the latest Mythbuntu.
>
> From those suggestions, what would be the expected result from using
> 'apt-get ....' on my Gentoo system for example - yup, got it in one -
> " -bash: apt-get: command not found"
>
> In other words, Linux != Mythbuntu, even for a MythTV install.
>
>

Robin

Not putting too fine a point on it.....

Stop being a horses ar*e.

I was the first to reply to the OP and he specifically states that he
has installed Mint Maya.

Mint Maya is based upon Ubuntu and uses apt-get as it's repo handler.

If he'd said he was using Fedora I'd have said he should use yumex and
install the RPM Fusion repos to install myth but other repos existed.

Simplistically the reason everyone said to use apt-get was everyone
was responding to the information the OP had posted, this was an
answer only for him not a general installation guide for all users.

Rant Over!!
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj@gilks.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
>>> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
>>> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
>>
>> The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
>> not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
>> mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
>> instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
>> dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
>> developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.
>>
>> Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
>> ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
>> 20+ dependencies.
>
> I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
> installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
> install the latest Mythbuntu.
>
> From those suggestions, what would be the expected result from using
> 'apt-get ....' on my Gentoo system for example - yup, got it in one -
> " -bash: apt-get: command not found"
>
> In other words, Linux != Mythbuntu, even for a MythTV install.

While you are technically correct, it is fast becoming the case that
mythtv = mythbuntu (at least by default) for many people for a few
reasons, and I am not trying to be exhaustive, but:

1. general newbie user familiarity with ubuntu, combined with the fact
you can get a lot of other software that people also like to run on
their backend on ubuntu (case in point, logitech media server (LMS)).

2. only one other specialised mythtv distro now that mythdora is dead,
and that is LinHES. LinHES is a great product but doesn't have the
market penetration. It has a very dedicated, but quite small team. I
was asked on this list to submit a ticket to get LMS into LinHES, and
I did so, but so far I don't think its been looked at or assigned, let
alone done. That is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Not a
criticism of the LinHES guys, just an example of the fact that a
smaller project may give you less options for "extras".

3. mythbuntu's very up to date packaging - both master and
latest-release-fixes up to date after every commit. This is pretty
important.

I know people will have other ideas about what is good, bad or
indifferent about their fave distro, and point out that they have been
running myth on slackware since 0.16 without a reboot, but for a user
looking for an easy experience and up to date packages, mythbuntu must
be near the top of their list.

I used to be a big gentoo fanboy, I ran gentoo installfests,
proseltised it till the cows came home (pun? sorry), but got too busy.
When I retire I might have time for it :)

One thing about mint is that it does have mythtv in it's repos, but
the mythbuntu repos do not (presently) work with mint.
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On 08/08/12 15:59, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj@gilks.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
>>>> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
>>>> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
>>> The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
>>> not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
>>> mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
>>> instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
>>> dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
>>> developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.
>>>
>>> Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
>>> ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
>>> 20+ dependencies.
>> I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
>> installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
>> install the latest Mythbuntu.
>>
>> From those suggestions, what would be the expected result from using
>> 'apt-get ....' on my Gentoo system for example - yup, got it in one -
>> " -bash: apt-get: command not found"
>>
>> In other words, Linux != Mythbuntu, even for a MythTV install.
> While you are technically correct, it is fast becoming the case that
> mythtv = mythbuntu (at least by default) for many people for a few
> reasons, and I am not trying to be exhaustive, but:
>
> 1. general newbie user familiarity with ubuntu, combined with the fact
> you can get a lot of other software that people also like to run on
> their backend on ubuntu (case in point, logitech media server (LMS)).
>
> 2. only one other specialised mythtv distro now that mythdora is dead,
> and that is LinHES. LinHES is a great product but doesn't have the
> market penetration. It has a very dedicated, but quite small team. I
> was asked on this list to submit a ticket to get LMS into LinHES, and
> I did so, but so far I don't think its been looked at or assigned, let
> alone done. That is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Not a
> criticism of the LinHES guys, just an example of the fact that a
> smaller project may give you less options for "extras".
>
> 3. mythbuntu's very up to date packaging - both master and
> latest-release-fixes up to date after every commit. This is pretty
> important.
>
> I know people will have other ideas about what is good, bad or
> indifferent about their fave distro, and point out that they have been
> running myth on slackware since 0.16 without a reboot, but for a user
> looking for an easy experience and up to date packages, mythbuntu must
> be near the top of their list.
>
> I used to be a big gentoo fanboy, I ran gentoo installfests,
> proseltised it till the cows came home (pun? sorry), but got too busy.
> When I retire I might have time for it :)
>
> One thing about mint is that it does have mythtv in it's repos, but
> the mythbuntu repos do not (presently) work with mint.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Well, that certainly stirred up the hornets nest! One of the best things about MythTV (and other Linux/UNIX apps) is the
involvement of a huge range of users and developers who come to the aid of other struggling users with (mostly) helpful
comments and suggestions.

The comments have been very valid, and yes, I could have just installed the MythTV packages. However, I'd still have
this (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/525274) problem. Last time I used the distribution packages I
had another sound issue (or was it the dreaded lirc?) which I could only resolve with the latest source at the
time. Marius Ducea has some very apt comments here (http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/). I want
to unclutter the MythTV menus and not install packages that I don't use so a source build is needed. I'd also still have
to fix this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1004974) to fix the Mythbuntu theme which a "user" (ie. spouse)
spotted within two minutes of using the new system.

Next time, if I still want to build from source I'll be doing the apt-get build-dep first as suggested.

Brian's analogy with a car owner/mechanic is apt but if I could elaborate a bit:
I'm a "trained professional" with 25 years experience in designing, building and fixing engines of many
sorts. I'm OK with getting my hands dirty in order to get the car running the way I like with the appropriate features.
When I get the latest version of the fuel injection computer direct from the manufacturer, I really don't want to spend
hours on some problem only to find that the water pump that's been in the car for 5 years has to be upgraded as well and
without it, turning the ignition key only results in the machine back-firing and spitting the key out of the ignition
(ie. a segmentation fault). It would also be nice if the gear level didn't disappear into the engine compartment every
time the ignition is turned off because of some missing setting on the exhaust gas recirculation valve. And when I ask
for some advice from the local garage, I get the usual sage shaking of heads with "so you didn't read that bit on page
25 under "Before installing the injection computer on an Austin Healy" instead of just reading the "How to install the
injection computer" booklet that was in the box. I exaggerate, but you get the idea.

Thank you joehenley for summarising my request so succinctly. I've just found this:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dependencies_(Building_from_source)
<http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dependencies_%28Building_from_source%29> but it seems pretty out of date and incomplete.
It's also not linked from the main wiki docs page under "Checking Prerequisites, Software". Instead there's a suggestion
about running the apt-get build-dep if you're using Mythbuntu/Debian and a link to Jarod's blog about Fedora
installations, which again seems very out of date.

Martin
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
>
> The comments have been very valid, and yes, I could have just installed the MythTV packages. However, I'd still have
> this (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/525274) problem.

Martin

If I've understood you correctly when you exit from a playing video
you get a 'frozen snapshot' of the video that does not clear down to
the menus?

That could be a number of things......

1. Which graphics card are you using? If Nvidia are you using the
Nvidia driver or the Nouveau one?

2. Have you enabled desktop compositing?

3. What modes are you playing the videos in

Mythfrontend --> Setup --> Video --> Playback

Have you checked the system log immediately after an instance to see
if there are any reported errors?
Last time I used the distribution packages I


> had another sound issue (or was it the dreaded lirc?) which I could only resolve with the latest source at the
> time. Marius Ducea has some very apt comments here (http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/). I want
> to unclutter the MythTV menus and not install packages that I don't use so a source build is needed.

The Installation from the Mint repos allows you to choose pretty
specifically what apps and options you install, so menus are
decluttered. Rather then using apt-get from the command line use the
synaptic gui and choose the specific packages you want installed.

> I'd also still have to fix this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1004974) to fix the
> Mythbuntu theme which a "user" (ie. spouse) spotted within two minutes of using the new system.

Specific bug with fix offered that can be done whether you compile
yourself or repo install.


>
> Next time, if I still want to build from source I'll be doing the apt-get build-dep first as suggested.
>
> Brian's analogy with a car owner/mechanic is apt but if I could elaborate a bit:
> I'm a "trained professional" with 25 years experience in designing, building and fixing engines of many
> sorts. I'm OK with getting my hands dirty in order to get the car running the way I like with the appropriate features.
> When I get the latest version of the fuel injection computer direct from the manufacturer, I really don't want to spend
> hours on some problem only to find that the water pump that's been in the car for 5 years has to be upgraded as well and
> without it, turning the ignition key only results in the machine back-firing and spitting the key out of the ignition
> (ie. a segmentation fault). It would also be nice if the gear level didn't disappear into the engine compartment every
> time the ignition is turned off because of some missing setting on the exhaust gas recirculation valve. And when I ask
> for some advice from the local garage, I get the usual sage shaking of heads with "so you didn't read that bit on page
> 25 under "Before installing the injection computer on an Austin Healy" instead of just reading the "How to install the
> injection computer" booklet that was in the box. I exaggerate, but you get the idea.
>
> Thank you joehenley for summarising my request so succinctly. I've just found this:
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dependencies_(Building_from_source)
> <http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Dependencies_%28Building_from_source%29> but it seems pretty out of date and incomplete.
> It's also not linked from the main wiki docs page under "Checking Prerequisites, Software". Instead there's a suggestion
> about running the apt-get build-dep if you're using Mythbuntu/Debian and a link to Jarod's blog about Fedora
> installations, which again seems very out of date.
>

This is subjective and therefore I'll not get into it's merits either
way although I agree with your comment docs could be better, however
that could be said of a lot of IBM and Cisco kit and I've paid through
the nose for that in the past.
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 1:26 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj@gilks.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
>>>> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
>>>> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
>>>
>>> The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
>>> not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
>>> mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
>>> instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
>>> dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
>>> developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.
>>>
>>> Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
>>> ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
>>> 20+ dependencies.
>>
>> I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
>> installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
>> install the latest Mythbuntu.
>>
>> From those suggestions, what would be the expected result from using
>> 'apt-get ....' on my Gentoo system for example - yup, got it in one -
>> " -bash: apt-get: command not found"
>>
>> In other words, Linux != Mythbuntu, even for a MythTV install.
>
> While you are technically correct, it is fast becoming the case that
> mythtv = mythbuntu (at least by default) for many people for a few
> reasons, and I am not trying to be exhaustive, but:
>
> 1. general newbie user familiarity with ubuntu, combined with the fact
> you can get a lot of other software that people also like to run on
> their backend on ubuntu (case in point, logitech media server (LMS)).
>
> 2. only one other specialised mythtv distro now that mythdora is dead,
> and that is LinHES. LinHES is a great product but doesn't have the
> market penetration. It has a very dedicated, but quite small team. I
> was asked on this list to submit a ticket to get LMS into LinHES, and
> I did so, but so far I don't think its been looked at or assigned, let
> alone done. That is unfortunately a deal breaker for me. Not a
> criticism of the LinHES guys, just an example of the fact that a
> smaller project may give you less options for "extras".
>
> 3. mythbuntu's very up to date packaging - both master and
> latest-release-fixes up to date after every commit. This is pretty
> important.
>
> I know people will have other ideas about what is good, bad or
> indifferent about their fave distro, and point out that they have been
> running myth on slackware since 0.16 without a reboot, but for a user
> looking for an easy experience and up to date packages, mythbuntu must
> be near the top of their list.
>
> I used to be a big gentoo fanboy, I ran gentoo installfests,
> proseltised it till the cows came home (pun? sorry), but got too busy.
> When I retire I might have time for it :)
>
> One thing about mint is that it does have mythtv in it's repos, but
> the mythbuntu repos do not (presently) work with mint.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Please let me know how the Mythbuntu repos don't work with Mint. Are
you specifically talking about the mythbuntu-repos configuration
utility? The repos can still be added manually and should work fine on
Mint.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Aug 08, 2012 at 01:26:43PM +1200, Robin Gilks wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 6:20 PM, Joe Henley <joehenley@kc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> There were a couple of replies which were helpful, but in the replies so
> >> far, not one -- NOT ONE -- has replied to his request. _Documentation
> >> please_ to help him install a product which he likes.
> >
> > The reason nobody has complied with his request is because it would
> > not be productive. There are much better ways to install or compile
> > mythtv then manually installing dependencies. Which he is asking for
> > instructions to do. Best way forward is to use apt to install mythtv
> > dependencies like other people have suggested in this thread. The
> > developers of apt designed a very powerful system. Use it.
> >
> > Now installing or compiling stuff for windows? That is a pain in the
> > ass and does require a wiki article explaining how to manually install
> > 20+ dependencies.
>
> I assume from all the replies that if ever anyone encounters a problem
> installing MythTV then they blow away their chosen distribution and
> install the latest Mythbuntu.

That might have to do with the guy that made the original query.

[deletia]
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mythtv-users mailing list
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Re: A plea for some consideration for the poor suffering MythTV users [ In reply to ]
>
> Well, that certainly stirred up the hornets nest! One of the best things
> about MythTV (and other Linux/UNIX apps) is the
> involvement of a huge range of users and developers who come to the aid
> of other struggling users with (mostly) helpful
> comments and suggestions.
>
> The comments have been very valid, and yes, I could have just installed
> the MythTV packages. However, I'd still have
> this (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/525274) problem.
> Last time I used the distribution packages I
> had another sound issue (or was it the dreaded lirc?) which I could only
> resolve with the latest source at the
> time. Marius Ducea has some very apt comments here (
> http://www.ducea.com/2008/01/16/source-or-package-install/). I want
> to unclutter the MythTV menus and not install packages that I don't use so
> a source build is needed. I'd also still have
> to fix this (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mythbuntu/+bug/1004974) to fix
> the Mythbuntu theme which a "user" (ie. spouse)
> spotted within two minutes of using the new system.
>
>
I think we can all agree that Mythtv documentation is lacking somewhat.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but rather than asking someone else
to improve it, why don't you make it your personal mission. Perhaps write
a distribution agnostic compile-from-source guide (with notes for saving
time on your distro by using precompiled dependancies). Sure, it will take
a while, especially because your actually trying to figure everything out
as you go.

The reason that such documentation doesn't exist is because almost no one
does this, and those that do have no need for documentation. Perhaps you
can outline the reasons why someone would want to build it manually.

I know I have had reason to build from source in the past, to test a patch
for example. My first time through I was helped on the IRC channel, and of
course I didn't take notes so when it came up again I chose to just not
bother and wait for the patch to get added to trunk. Perhaps your guide
would actually encourage more people to participate in the development and
testing of Mythtv?

Good luck!

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