Mailing List Archive

On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>
> The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).

I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?

Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
"community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.

When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).

Hope that helps,

Andrew

--
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According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.

We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
invited to vote.

[1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules


2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>

> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
> >
> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>
> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>
> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>
> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

Or better yet: with a number of forum posts. How about 10?
How many emails we'd have to send then?

2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>

> According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
> the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.
>
> We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
> invited to vote.
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules
>
>
>
> 2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>
>
>> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
>> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>>
>> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
>> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
>> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>>
>> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
>> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
>> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
>> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>>
>> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
>> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
>> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
>> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
>> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
>> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>> _______________________________________________
>> maemo-community mailing list
>> maemo-community@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>>
>
>

I'll quote Pelagos question from the forum:

"It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number
varies with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which
number of users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the
number goes below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold
does this correspond to)."



2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>

> Or better yet: with a number of forum posts. How about 10?
> How many emails we'd have to send then?
>
>
> 2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>
>
>> According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
>> the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.
>>
>> We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
>> invited to vote.
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>
>>
>>> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
>>> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>>>
>>> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
>>> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
>>> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>>>
>>> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
>>> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
>>> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
>>> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>>>
>>> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
>>> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
>>> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
>>> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
>>> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
>>> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> maemo-community mailing list
>>> maemo-community@maemo.org
>>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>>>
>>
>>
>

On 8 November 2011 11:32, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> "It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number varies
> with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which number of
> users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the number goes
> below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold does this
> correspond to)."

It's not just about the mass of emails being sent out, but the
likelihood of people resenting receiving the email, appreciating the
email or participating in the poll.

57,000 people are *not* going to vote in the Coding Competition. The
question is to find out how to target those who are likely to. High
participation in the forums or rating products is likely to be an
indicator (I would've thought). As is more recent karma (people who
created accounts in 2005 for the 770 may well have fallen by the
way-side).

So, the flip side challenge to you as the Coding Competition
organisers is: who do you expect to participate, and how can that
demographic be identified?

I assume you've got the emails to be sent carefully crafted already,
and are on the wiki for crowdsourcing review? (The other aspect about
mass emailing is ensuring the email itself is as polished as
possible).

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

Just my 2ct (warning: haven't been involved with the discussions and/or
competition):

A few assumptions about the goal of sending the emails and/or using the
"election by tokens":
1. let people know
2. prevent a very very small number of developers from trying to cheat the
system by creating new accounts and voting multiple times.

Is that all necessary? Sure we had a few problems on the last competition
using the forum voting but it mostly just worked.

At this point I think the criteria for who can vote or not should be as
close as possible to "one vote for anybody that has a n900 and has
installed the applications"

The competition has ended so long ago I think it would better to just get
the voting done the simplest way possible (forum?) and move on. Just make
clear the voting rules before starting (no new accounts starting xxxx?;
only people that own n900 can vote, ...) and let the community or a small
committee (council+organizers) have the last work.

Felipe

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:

> On 8 November 2011 11:32, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > "It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number
> varies
> > with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which number of
> > users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the number goes
> > below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold does this
> > correspond to)."
>
> It's not just about the mass of emails being sent out, but the
> likelihood of people resenting receiving the email, appreciating the
> email or participating in the poll.
>
> 57,000 people are *not* going to vote in the Coding Competition. The
> question is to find out how to target those who are likely to. High
> participation in the forums or rating products is likely to be an
> indicator (I would've thought). As is more recent karma (people who
> created accounts in 2005 for the 770 may well have fallen by the
> way-side).
>
> So, the flip side challenge to you as the Coding Competition
> organisers is: who do you expect to participate, and how can that
> demographic be identified?
>
> I assume you've got the emails to be sent carefully crafted already,
> and are on the wiki for crowdsourcing review? (The other aspect about
> mass emailing is ensuring the email itself is as polished as
> possible).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

Ferenc,

Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
length of community membership so that the server load will be manageable.

The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most likely
to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are currently active
in the community, as indicated previously, the priority now is to get the
vote completed and those additional factors, even if possible, are likely
to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am mistaken in this
regard, then Ferenc can point that out.

Rob Bauer (SD69)

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
> of hand I decided to check the situation.
>
> For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
> This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
> emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
> valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
> for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
>
> This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
> We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
>
> I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
> system.
>
> ferenc
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

Hello,

On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> Ferenc,
>
> Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
> server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
> length of community membership so that the server load will be manageable.
>
Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less than
57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not be
a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.

> The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
> selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the priority
> now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors, even if
> possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am
> mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
>
I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce the
karma filter.

> Rob Bauer (SD69)
>
Cheers,
ferenc

ps: http://maemo.org/profile/list/
There are 22 pages exactly that list people having karma >= 100. Each
page has 30 rows.

> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
> of hand I decided to check the situation.
>
> For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
> This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
> emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
> valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
> for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
>
> This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
> We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
>
> I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
> system.
>
> ferenc
> --
> maemo.org <http://maemo.org> sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org <mailto:maemo-community@maemo.org>
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community


--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc@maemo.org
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> > Ferenc,
> >
> > Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
> > server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
> > length of community membership so that the server load will be
> manageable.
> >
> Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less than
> 57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not be
> a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.
>
> > The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
> > selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> > likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> > currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the priority
> > now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors, even if
> > possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am
> > mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
> >
> I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce the
> karma filter.
>
> On behalf of Council, I authorize the karma filter.


> > Rob Bauer (SD69)
> >
> Cheers,
> ferenc
>
> ps: http://maemo.org/profile/list/
> There are 22 pages exactly that list people having karma >= 100. Each
> page has 30 rows.
>
> > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> > <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets
> out
> > of hand I decided to check the situation.
> >
> > For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> > were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma
> value.
> > This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands
> of
> > emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to
> send a
> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This
> number is
> > valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per
> person
> > for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> > mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
> >
> > This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo
> servers.
> > We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
> >
> > I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web
> based
> > system.
> >
> > ferenc
> > --
> > maemo.org <http://maemo.org> sysadmin, developer
> > email: ferenc@maemo.org <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>
> >
> > [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-community mailing list
> > maemo-community@maemo.org <mailto:maemo-community@maemo.org>
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-community mailing list
> > maemo-community@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

Hi,

On 11/08/2011 05:17 PM, robert bauer wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> > Ferenc,
> >
> > Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to
> reduce
> > server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on
> karma and
> > length of community membership so that the server load will be
> manageable.
> >
> Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less than
> 57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not be
> a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.
>
> > The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
> > selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> > likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> > currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the
> priority
> > now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors, even if
> > possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course,
> if I am
> > mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
> >
> I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce the
> karma filter.
>
> On behalf of Council, I authorize the karma filter.
>
>
OK, great. All eligible people will receive 1 email with 1 token, so
they can use that in all 9 votings.

I assume the Council has already agreed on the content of the email (aka
instructions) that is sent to the voters. I would need it now.

Br,
ferenc
--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc@maemo.org
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:36 PM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 11/08/2011 05:17 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> > <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> > > Ferenc,
> > >
> > > Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to
> > reduce
> > > server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on
> > karma and
> > > length of community membership so that the server load will be
> > manageable.
> > >
> > Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less
> than
> > 57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not
> be
> > a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.
> >
> > > The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in
> more
> > > selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> > > likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> > > currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the
> > priority
> > > now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors,
> even if
> > > possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course,
> > if I am
> > > mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
> > >
> > I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce
> the
> > karma filter.
> >
> > On behalf of Council, I authorize the karma filter.
> >
> >
> OK, great. All eligible people will receive 1 email with 1 token, so
> they can use that in all 9 votings.
>
> I assume the Council has already agreed on the content of the email (aka
> instructions) that is sent to the voters. I would need it now.
>
> I don't think Council needs to prescreen the email from the coding
competition. But if you think the email is objectionable for some reason,
please let us know and we will take a look at it.

Rob




> Br,
> ferenc
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

Hi,

On 11/09/2011 09:12 PM, robert bauer wrote:

<snip>

>
> I assume the Council has already agreed on the content of the email (aka
> instructions) that is sent to the voters. I would need it now.
>
> I don't think Council needs to prescreen the email from the coding
> competition. But if you think the email is objectionable for some
> reason, please let us know and we will take a look at it.
>
I think something went wrong with the attachment, I did not receive the
text. Do you have it online?

What is the criteria now? I have heard that you were discussing
somewhere to lower the karma filter to 10 and maybe incorporate stats
from talk.maemo.org. I could filter based on accounts too, but for that
I need a list from Reggie. Reggie, let's discuss in private how you
share that list (if needed at all). You upload it to one of our servers
via scp, or I download it via SSL?

So that list, plus the karma limit would be the base of filtering. Let
me know what you decided with the fellow council members and then we can
proceed.

> Rob
>
-ferenc

--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc@maemo.org
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 11/09/2011 09:12 PM, robert bauer wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > I assume the Council has already agreed on the content of the email
> (aka
> > instructions) that is sent to the voters. I would need it now.
> >
> > I don't think Council needs to prescreen the email from the coding
> > competition. But if you think the email is objectionable for some
> > reason, please let us know and we will take a look at it.
> >
> I think something went wrong with the attachment, I did not receive the
> text. Do you have it online?
>
I don't have the text but I've asked the coding competition to
directly forward it to you.


>
> What is the criteria now? I have heard that you were discussing
> somewhere to lower the karma filter to 10 and maybe incorporate stats
> from talk.maemo.org. I could filter based on accounts too, but for that
> I need a list from Reggie. Reggie, let's discuss in private how you
> share that list (if needed at all). You upload it to one of our servers
> via scp, or I download it via SSL?
>
> So that list, plus the karma limit would be the base of filtering. Let
> me know what you decided with the fellow council members and then we can
> proceed.
>
> Neither I nor Council have discussed a karma filter of 10, or
any stats from t.m.o. other than the minimum number of months the accounts
must have existed. The Council's decision was to proceed with the vote as
soon as possible using a karma level (no higher than 100) and minimum
account age (measured in months) that will not overload the servers. These
two criteria are the only base of filtering. If a karma filter of 10 would
overload the servers, then use any higher karma number up to 100. We leave
it to your expertise to determine what will overload the servers and to
proceed as soon as possible.


> > Rob
> >
> -ferenc
>
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

robert bauer wrote:
> Neither I nor Council have discussed a karma filter of 10, or
> any stats from t.m.o. other than the minimum number of months the
> accounts must have existed. The Council's decision was to proceed with
> the vote as soon as possible using a karma level (no higher than 100)
> and minimum account age (measured in months) that will not overload the
> servers. These two criteria are the only base of filtering. If a karma
> filter of 10 would overload the servers, then use any higher karma
> number up to 100. We leave it to your expertise to determine what will
> overload the servers and to proceed as soon as possible.

Can this e-mail not be sent out in waves? Break 500,000 accounts into 10
groups of 50,000? Send out 1 group a day?
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if they do.


--
Andrew Flegg | mailto:andrew@bleb.org -- http://www.bleb.org/On 09/11/2011 20:18 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
robert bauer wrote:
> Neither I nor Council have discussed a karma filter of 10, or
> any stats from t.m.o. other than the minimum number of months the
> accounts must have existed. The Council's decision was to proceed with
> the vote as soon as possible using a karma level (no higher than 100)
> and minimum account age (measured in months) that will not overload the
> servers. These two criteria are the only base of filtering. If a karma
> filter of 10 would overload the servers, then use any higher karma
> number up to 100. We leave it to your expertise to determine what will
> overload the servers and to proceed as soon as possible.

Can this e-mail not be sent out in waves? Break 500,000 accounts into 10
groups of 50,000? Send out 1 group a day?
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

andrew@bleb.org wrote:
> 50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if they do.

I don't get what the big deal is since Maemo.org has sent about 1 e-mail
out a year. It's for a legitimate reason for a Maemo.org event. If a
user doesn't want an e-mail about Maemo, why did they create a Maemo
account?

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

I've asked about karma =10 or higher (instead of 100) and
maemo.orgactivity within the last six months, because the userbase
with karma above
100 is in great part not active on tmo anymore or not interested in the
coding competition. the userbase which was active in the last six months on
the other hand is mostly interested in apps, which the coding competition
is about.

Best regards,
Cosimo

2011/11/9 Michael Cronenworth <mike@cchtml.com>

> andrew@bleb.org wrote:
>
>> 50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them
>> off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if
>> they do.
>>
>
> I don't get what the big deal is since Maemo.org has sent about 1 e-mail
> out a year. It's for a legitimate reason for a Maemo.org event. If a user
> doesn't want an e-mail about Maemo, why did they create a Maemo account?
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/**mailman/listinfo/maemo-**community<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community>
>

Cosimo Kroll wrote:
> I've asked about karma =10 or higher (instead of 100) and maemo.org
> <http://maemo.org> activity within the last six months, because the
> userbase with karma above 100 is in great part not active on tmo anymore
> or not interested in the coding competition. the userbase which was
> active in the last six months on the other hand is mostly interested in
> apps, which the coding competition is about.

I don't mind that kind of filtering of accounts. I was just questioning
the filtering of accounts simply because it is "too many".
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

Is there an easy way to delete the account? I don't think so. Some of these accounts are over 6 years old, and the user may have got rid of their 770 in the meantime.

There has *never* been an unfiltered email sent out, and to do so now would not be because it's the right thing to do, but because if a lack of foresight and planning of the votinng process.

That's why having a filter is sensible. If my "karma decays" idea had been implemented, a threshold would tell you not only that someone had been active but whether it had been recently.

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg | mailto:andrew@bleb.org -- http://www.bleb.org/On 09/11/2011 20:36 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
andrew@bleb.org wrote:
> 50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if they do.

I don't get what the big deal is since Maemo.org has sent about 1 e-mail
out a year. It's for a legitimate reason for a Maemo.org event. If a
user doesn't want an e-mail about Maemo, why did they create a Maemo
account?

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

andrew@bleb.org wrote:
> Is there an easy way to delete the account? I don't think so. Some of these accounts are over 6 years old, and the user may have got rid of their 770 in the meantime.
>
> There has*never* been an unfiltered email sent out, and to do so now would not be because it's the right thing to do, but because if a lack of foresight and planning of the votinng process.
>
> That's why having a filter is sensible. If my "karma decays" idea had been implemented, a threshold would tell you not only that someone had been active but whether it had been recently.

Where's all this hostility coming from? Read all of my messages.

You've just pissed me off for today, thanks. I'm done with this thread.
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

It's not hostility, I thought we were having a forthright discussion amongst friends.

Although looking at some of the messages outside of this thread, there seemed to be a them/us separation; aiming ire at Ferenc for pointing out that sending 57,000 emails was a fairly Bad Idea (whether for server load, netiquette or plain common sense). Not his fault no-one thought about it before, is it?

--
Andrew Flegg | mailto:andrew@bleb.org -- http://www.bleb.org/On 09/11/2011 21:22 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
andrew@bleb.org wrote:
> Is there an easy way to delete the account? I don't think so. Some of these accounts are over 6 years old, and the user may have got rid of their 770 in the meantime.
>
> There has*never* been an unfiltered email sent out, and to do so now would not be because it's the right thing to do, but because if a lack of foresight and planning of the votinng process.
>
> That's why having a filter is sensible. If my "karma decays" idea had been implemented, a threshold would tell you not only that someone had been active but whether it had been recently.

Where's all this hostility coming from? Read all of my messages.

You've just pissed me off for today, thanks. I'm done with this thread.
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

people who don't use tmo that much (like me) might be interested in voting too..

-timo


Cosimo Kroll kirjoitti 9.11.2011 22:43:

I've asked about karma =10 or higher (instead of 100) and maemo.org activity within the last six months, because the userbase with karma above 100 is in great part not active on tmo anymore or not interested in the coding competition. the userbase which was active in the last six months on the other hand is mostly interested in apps, which the coding competition is about.

Best regards,
Cosimo


2011/11/9 Michael Cronenworth <mike@cchtml.com>

andrew@bleb.org wrote:

50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if they do.



I don't get what the big deal is since Maemo.org has sent about 1 e-mail out a year. It's for a legitimate reason for a Maemo.org event. If a user doesn't want an e-mail about Maemo, why did they create a Maemo account?


_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

So what's wrong with a simple forum poll? Sure some people will have more than one account, etc but that wouldn't change the results that much. I'd guess someone can set the poll so that only accounts created before the competition ended can vote?

This way you only need to create the poll and send mail to the mailing lists. Simple and works.

-timo


andrew@bleb.org kirjoitti 9.11.2011 23:41:

It's not hostility, I thought we were having a forthright discussion amongst friends.

Although looking at some of the messages outside of this thread, there seemed to be a them/us separation; aiming ire at Ferenc for pointing out that sending 57,000 emails was a fairly Bad Idea (whether for server load, netiquette or plain common sense). Not his fault no-one thought about it before, is it?

--
Andrew Flegg | mailto:andrew@bleb.org -- http://www.bleb.org/On 09/11/2011 21:22 Michael Cronenworth wrote:
andrew@bleb.org wrote:
> Is there an easy way to delete the account? I don't think so. Some of these accounts are over 6 years old, and the user may have got rid of their 770 in the meantime.
>
> There has*never* been an unfiltered email sent out, and to do so now would not be because it's the right thing to do, but because if a lack of foresight and planning of the votinng process.
>
> That's why having a filter is sensible. If my "karma decays" idea had been implemented, a threshold would tell you not only that someone had been active but whether it had been recently.

Where's all this hostility coming from? Read all of my messages.

You've just pissed me off for today, thanks. I'm done with this thread.
_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

What solution would you propose?

Nemein is unwilling to send emails to every maemo.org member...

--
Von meinem Nokia N950 gesendet

timop.harkonen@gmail.com schrieb am 10.11.11 06:50:

people who don't use tmo that much (like me) might be interested in voting
too..


-timo

Cosimo Kroll kirjoitti 9.11.2011 22:43:
I've asked about karma =10 or higher (instead of 100) and
maemo.orgactivity within the last six months, because the userbase
with karma above
100 is in great part not active on tmo anymore or not interested in the
coding competition. the userbase which was active in the last six months on
the other hand is mostly interested in apps, which the coding competition
is about.

Best regards,
Cosimo

2011/11/9 Michael Cronenworth <mike@cchtml.com>

> andrew@bleb.org wrote:
>
>> 50,000 people do not want to get the email, and you'll only piss them
>> off, alienate them and generate bad press and accusations of spamming if
>> they do.
>>
>
> I don't get what the big deal is since Maemo.org has sent about 1 e-mail
> out a year. It's for a legitimate reason for a Maemo.org event. If a user
> doesn't want an e-mail about Maemo, why did they create a Maemo account?
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/**mailman/listinfo/maemo-**community<https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community>
>



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